Abel to Yzerman
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Another Reminder Denver Didn’t Need
by IwoCPO on 12/08/08 at 10:33 AM ET
Comments (37)
Adrian Dater with some harsh reality for the last 4 Dive fans left in Denver,
Detroit lost Brendan Shanahan, but had a lot of key guys under contract beyond that year. Plus, Detroit’s key guys were younger than Colorado’s—starting with Henrik Zetterberg and Pavel Datsyuk. Those two guys have made all the difference in recent years, and it was the astute drafting of them in later rounds by Detroit management that made it possible.
Let’s face it, the Avs have not been as good as Detroit in recent drafts—most especially in the finding of good Swedes.
That little ditty’s dedicated to the guy working at the hotel I’m staying at who claimed to be a “Blackhawk and Avalanche fan.” Impressive.
I’m on travel until tomorrow night, so posting will be sparse until then. Feel free to use the comment section below your own private playhouse for objectivity and even-keeled discussion.
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Comments
Next Monday in Detroit will be the first game between the teams this season. Colorado hasn’t beaten Detroit in two years. I don’t expect that to change that night.
Pretty accurate answer from a Suckalanche writer...but not too hard to figure out
Posted by yzer19man from 300 W Hill St Chicago, 60610 on 12/08/08 at 12:37 PM ET
Well, this game, like the one against Vancouver last week is going to be “whose goaltending is worse” since the Dives have a one-two “limp wristed soccer slap” (instead of punch) with Razor and Budaj, and the Wings have Ozzie who is playing terrible, and Conk-block who is incredibly inconsistent.
I’m guessing the Wings will simply have to score a good ol’ Jose “Three-or-Four” against whoever plays in net...which shouldn’t be a problem. And how about a Babcock/Granato round 2? I’ve never seen Babbles fume like that when Max hit Nik and then Downey ran Max’s show.
Posted by Animal Drew from A Nightmare on Helm Street on 12/08/08 at 12:51 PM ET
A Dive and Fauxhawks fan - impressive indeed. You should remind him to sh-t or get off the pot while you’re there. That’s as equally insane as the co-worker of mine that transitioned seamlessly from Devils to Ducks fan round about 2007. Clearly they hate the actual sport of hockey.
Posted by HockeyJoe from Upstate New York on 12/08/08 at 01:46 PM ET
Wings meet the Av’s, 1st game back, 4th game in 6 days including 3 plane flights.
1st road game for the Av’s, after a weekend off…
Don’t expect too much....
Nice scheduling....little gary’s engineered parity.
Posted by HockeyTownTodd from the "NOT QUITE DEAD PIRATE" on 12/08/08 at 02:24 PM ET
Nice scheduling....little gary’s engineered parity.
Not quite as well engineered at the first game against the Sharks though Gramps.
Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 12/08/08 at 02:45 PM ET
Nice scheduling....little gary’s engineered parity.
Almost as well engineered as the west trip that ended with the Sharnks n Wings first match up of the year.....
Gary. Ass.
Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 12/08/08 at 02:47 PM ET
What the??? Couple misfires there when the server had a few brains farts, sorry all.
Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 12/08/08 at 03:18 PM ET
objectivity and even-keeled discussion
Whatsativity?
Posted by Incognetis from Exile in Alabama on 12/08/08 at 03:23 PM ET
The Deep Diggers had something interesting, specifically Helene St. James. Babs has switched up the lines, they’re now:
Wally-Dats-Homer
Danny Boy-Hank-Big Hoss
William Tell-Happy-Mule
Maltby-Drapes-CokeandPepsi
Nick Sr.-Stuart
Nik Jr.-Rafalski
Lebda-Pylon
I gotta say, I’m questioning Babs’ thinking here. The line of Wally-Happy-Danny Boy was pretty good in the early going against the Hawks, before they were split up. And Dats and Hoss seem to have pretty good chemistry, as do Z and Mule. The biggest thing I’m worried about is the Mule. This could ruin him, literally, by taking a Sammy shot off the ankle or face. I suppose it could work out though, it would be line where two of the three forwards crash the net. And Fils and Dats seemed to have some chemistry last season during the injury crisis that was February 2008. I just hope it spraks the team to start playing this little thing called DEFENCE.
Posted by Alzy from Innisfail, Alberta, Canada on 12/08/08 at 03:27 PM ET
I actually think these line changes are a good idea. Something needs to happen to get these guys playing again...yes they are winning, but they aren’t trying very hard. The only thing I would change, is I would take Z off Center and put him on Wing. I like adding Wally in with Dats--they did have chemistry last year and I think they will again. The Mule will perform wherever they put him, and I like the idea of he and Happy playing together for a little bit, just to see how it works out.
Posted by John from Pittsburgh, PA (Wings fan for life!) on 12/08/08 at 03:37 PM ET
Whats the saying about—-- If you keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?
Fil - Datsyuk - Homer
Hoss - Zetterberg - Cleary
Happy - Mule - Sammy
Kopecky - Draper - Malts
Lidstrom - Stuie
Nik Jr. - Raffi
Lebda - Lilja
Conks in Wednesday.
The thing I notice about the SHUFFLE, is that it spreads the Wings size out more evenly. It puts some size on the third line, and some “teeth” on the “D” pairs.
Of course, it wan’t like the lines weren’t broke to begin with. Cheli is back with the team, maybe he’ll have a “positive” old school influence.
Babs had to do something that is what he gets paid for, isn’t it?
Posted by Jeff OKWingnut from Quest for 19 on 12/08/08 at 04:54 PM ET
I like the changes. Wally’s still a year or two away from being an impact player centering his own line. He will have a Euro Twins-like chemistry with Datsyuk and generate more offense on that line than he was on the third line. Overall, the first line loses a bit of scoring potential, but the defense probably improves on it a bit. And the other plus is that with Flip on his wing instead of Hossa, Pav won’t feel the need to defer as much, and actually use his underrated wrist shot.
The second line gets a bit better offensively adding Hossa. Both Z and Hossa will shoot till their arms fall off (and actually hit the net), while Cleary retrieves pucks and disrupts the goalie. Having Cleary and Z on the same line is good for defense.
The third line gets better all around with this change, IMO. Franzen has proven he is an impact player, so having him center that line gives the Wings three lines with impact players in all corners of the rink. Hudler seems to be consistently scoring both on the PP and 5-on-5 no matter who he’s with, and Samuelsson, as much as we like to bash him, has had good rapport with Franzen this season and they know how to work better defensively.
Obviously, there could be no chemistry, but I think it’s worth a shot. With what we’ve seen this year, I think these changes make sense. I think they’ll improve the defense.
The first line’s D improves by adding Fil (Hossa is good, but Fil is better—see the finals against Malkin last year, and Hoss has had a tendency to get lost in the neutral zone this season).
The second line’s D stays at a very good level with Z and Cleary taking prime defensive responsibility, allowing Hossa to focus strictly on offense, hopefully knocking down the number of neutral ice penalties he’s taken this season. Moving Hossa off the first line makes the first line’s D better because you know Flip won’t leave Dats out to dry, which Hossa has done on occasion.
The third line improves overall, in my opinion. I know they had been going real well the last few games, but you keep together the pair of Franzen and Sammy, who have played well together this year, and add a guy in Hudler that has just plain produced—and he’s been on the second, third, and fourth lines. I know Cleary has had some good numbers the last few, but honestly I did not like his play with Flip and Hudler. I think what we’ve seen from the third line is truthfully just the great play of Hudler shining through—Cleary and Flip have benefited, but will do better under this new arrangement.
Lastly, something that I think a lot of people aren’t seeing, but these line combinations give each of the top three lines better size. Before, the top two lines had good size, but the third line was stuck with two smaller players and a third guy who’s tough, in Cleary, but not nearly as physically imposing as Franzen, Hossa, or Sammy. Now, the first line has Homer (and Datsyuk is suddenly steamrolling people). The second line has Hossa’s size and Cleary’s grit. And the third line has two big bodies along with the shifty guy in Hudler. Much better balance in size and grit with these combos.
Posted by Nathan on 12/08/08 at 05:46 PM ET
Jeff, sorry, didn’t see your post before I posted that “something a lot of people aren’t seeing” comment about how these lines make better use of the bigger and grittier forwards. So, let me put my foot in my mouth and direct credit for that comment your way!
Posted by Nathan on 12/08/08 at 05:47 PM ET
I like this. I have thought that D. and Z. should be playing together for a while now. I hope Hoss doesn’t mind. He was told he would be playing with the top guys on the team. He is a great player and hopefully, has the true character and mindset of what it means to be a Wing. He does know that everyone on the team has a role and of course, he is a Beast. Things will only get better from here. These changes are meant to find the right chemistry and to continue to develop something good, and hopefully, shake things up a little.
We already know that D. and Z. work extremely well together.
If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. I like this. Bitches.
Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!
Posted by Kate from Pa. on 12/08/08 at 06:10 PM ET
Nice comment Nathan, very intuitive.
Hossa is hard to beat when/if he backchecks hard, but he has been
a bit of a floater his entire career. I think it is part of his game to get the opposition
to forget about him, like the Wings did in the playoffs. Hank and Dan should
be able to cover for his cherry pickin’.
Hoping to see Cheli replace Lebda for the Dallas game, take a rest in Phoenix, and
back on the ice for the Av’s.
Posted by HockeyTownTodd from the "NOT QUITE DEAD PIRATE" on 12/08/08 at 06:46 PM ET
This is what happens when you get your info from your husband. Oops! Silly me. I just went off and commented before I read the article. Never again!
Although it would be nice to see D. and Z. together again.Bitches.
Lets Go Red wings!!!!!
Posted by Kate from Pa. on 12/08/08 at 06:54 PM ET
Hossa is hard to beat when/if he backchecks hard, but he has been
a bit of a floater his entire career.
I’ve seen some of this, and not sure how to “quantify” it.... is that Hoss taking part of a shift off… or is he trying to create a little open ice for that “gotcha’” moment?
Ya know when ya know he’s loafing around ‘tween the blue lines and next thing ya know you turn your head to look for him and he’s gone? Though our transition game has been horrid the last 2-3 weeks and those “gotchas” are few n far between...... going the OTHER way that is. Oz n Conk have seen a’ plenty.
Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 12/08/08 at 08:01 PM ET
Hossa is above average when it comes to his defensive abilities as a forward, but he’s not in the same level as Z, Datsyuk, Franzen, Cleary, or even Samuelsson. And frankly, nor should he be. His offensive talents, size, and speed burst demand that he plays to score. I think that’s part of the motivation behind these line changes. On that line with Z and Cleary, Hoss can go to the net, shoot at will, and be a full-on offensive player.
That said, if he’s out there at the end of a close game or even on the PK, do you feel bad? Absolutely not. It’s just that the Wings have a wealth of forward that we all know have great defensive abilities, even if they have not lived up to them just quite yet this year.
Posted by Nathan on 12/08/08 at 10:01 PM ET
I’m still waiting to see the Hossa-Flip-Mule line just once this year. Not to mention the Return of the Circus.
Make it happen, Uncle Mike?
Posted by mudshark from Divetown, Colorado on 12/09/08 at 01:50 AM ET
Er, question mark on the loose…
Posted by mudshark from Divetown, Colorado on 12/09/08 at 01:50 AM ET
Don’t look now, but I think the Wings have a brand new #1 goalie.
The Conk starts 2 games in a row.
Posted by w2j2 on 12/09/08 at 11:03 AM ET
Not like Conks has been particularly good… similar to last year where Dom and Ozzie split time, but Dom was the starter game one, round one, I have a hard time seeing anyone but Ozzie as our goalie come game one, round one.
It would literally require Ozzie to continue to be as bad as he’s been for the entire year, and for Conks to improve. Or for Conks to just turn into Ken Dryden.
Posted by Nathan on 12/09/08 at 11:08 AM ET
The Conk starts 2 games in a row.
I’d be fine with not seeing Oz for another 2. Not being a total a$$, just saying he needs a break. Clear the slate and get back at it. We rested him a short bit earlier this year and it wasn’t enough as he’s right back to where he was before that attempt.
I’m with Mudshark on the lines. Uncle Mike, run’em by Scott.... errr nevermind.
I know I’m not the only one who misses Scottys beady eyed stare from high above here..... just knowing he was around was awful nice.
Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 12/09/08 at 11:58 AM ET
FYI: Helene St. James at the Free Press notes that Uncle Mike was utilizing the “new look” in Tuesdays practice as well.
Posted by Jeff OKWingnut from Quest for 19 on 12/09/08 at 01:02 PM ET
I know I’m not the only one who misses Scottys beady eyed stare from high above here..... just knowing he was around was awful nice.
Agreed, but this bright eyed kid is doing a pretty good job.
Since everyone already stated the brilliant, let me state the obvious. These line changes are a clear signal to the players that what is happening on the ice is *Not Acceptable*. Winning games or not, these guys haven’t earned the ability to be proud of their nightly effort. And Babs is trying to root out that subconscious complacency that comes from being near the top of the league despite playing shinny hockey.
Posted by Osrt on 12/09/08 at 01:03 PM ET
Babs will have to leave the lines for 4 games.
Tomorrow night will not indicate much. as CGY flies in from MON (tonights game),
and plays the third in four days, while Det has been off since Sat.
Make that..... DET has been off this entire season.
Posted by HockeyTownTodd from the "NOT QUITE DEAD PIRATE" on 12/09/08 at 01:28 PM ET
Khan! comes up with this brilliance too;
Up front, however, Babcock said he hadn’t decided if he’ll use the combinations from the last two days or go back to way it was before."I haven’t decided on that part yet,’’ he said.
Chances are, they’ll start the game with the new combinations and then revert back if things aren’t going smoothly.
Gee go back to the combos that have just been dominating all season so far? Kinda like putting Oz back in if Conk has another off game..... ?
Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 12/09/08 at 03:39 PM ET
And now Khan! says that Uncle Mike says the D pairings will switch back for the game tomorrow night:
Update from Tuesday’s practice: The Wings are going with the same changes as yesterday’s practice, but Mike Babcock said afterwards things will change for tomorrow’s game against Calgary - and that he’s considered putting Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg back together.
Babcock said the defense pairings - which, for the past two days, have seen Nicklas Lidstrom opposite Brad Stuart and Niklas Kronwall opposite Brian Rafalski - will go back to being Lidstrom-Rafalski and Kronwall-Stuart.
...
Asked if he had thought about putting Datsyuk and Zetterberg together, Babcock said, “yeah. We thought about that, too. We had them all over the place. But the reason we do is sometimes change brings about excitement and energy, enthusiasm. All we’re trying to do is get that. That’s the only reason.”
Regarding the power play units, Babcock said they will remain exactly as they have been.
Didn’t we do this last season, had all the defencemen play together, just so they could all get accustomed to playing with someone new in case of injury?
But nevertheless, seeing the Flying Cirus back together would be awesome. It would likely piss off the Big Hoss though.
Posted by Alzy from Innisfail, Alberta, Canada on 12/09/08 at 06:40 PM ET
Usual forward lines and D pairings tonite, so says The Highlander and Khan(!):
Coach Mike Babcock said after the morning skate that his intention all along was to keep his lines the same as always. He just shuffled the deck at Monday’s practice to see how players would react to each other. . .
. . .Babcock said that what he’s looking for in a line is this ... “having a net presence on every line, having a shooter on every line and someone who can make a play.” Which means that the line of Holmstrom (net-front), Hossa (shooter) and Datsyuk (playmaker) is the template.
Babcock also said that he never considered reuniting Datsyuk and Zetterberg.
“Not once,” said Babcock. “I know that works. I can go to that any time.”
Posted by Jeff OKWingnut from Quest for 19 on 12/10/08 at 12:52 PM ET
I’m telling you, Babs and Hossa have an oral agreement that he would play with either Z or Pav. Hossa insisted on speaking to Babs before and wanted to make sure that he would play prime minutes with prime players. And I for one am fine with that. If I’m leaving a ton of money on the table for a one-year contract, I’m going to try and make sure the situation I’m going into is as close to my ideal as possible.
Looking forward to tonight. I’ll join later on.
Posted by Osrt on 12/10/08 at 03:35 PM ET
For those with the Center Ice Package, the Wings/Flames game is on the NHL Network this evening.
Posted by clemshady from Greenwood, SC on 12/10/08 at 07:57 PM ET
Despite Chris Osgood having some “mostly mental” problems in goal this season, the Detroit Red Wings aren’t looking to make any moves – in the net or otherwise – says MLive Red Wings Insider Ansar Khan.
It wouldn’t be” Detroit” goaltending without the “mostly mental” problems.Bitches.
Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!
Posted by Kate from Pa. on 12/10/08 at 08:06 PM ET
For those with the Center Ice Package, the Wings/Flames game is on the NHL Network this evening.
I used to HATE these games on NHL Network as I missed out, but this year Time Warner pulled its head out and for $2 a month, I now have NHL Network.
Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 12/10/08 at 08:15 PM ET
I used to HATE these games on NHL Network as I missed out, but this year Time Warner pulled its head out and for $2 a month, I now have NHL Network.
Don’t forget the other three channels you get that I never watch, MO.
Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 12/10/08 at 08:19 PM ET
Game’s on nationally here in Canada. This better work out better than the last time I watched the Wings on TSN on a Wednesday (the 4-1 drubbing at the hands of Montreal).
Let’s Go Red Wings!
Posted by Alzy from Innisfail, Alberta, Canada on 12/10/08 at 08:37 PM ET
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What pray tell is that even keeled thing and why would it belong here?
Our ship is listing badly to port or starboard sides nightly.... an even keel is a unknown thing on these waters.
But picking on the Dive and it’s whiny bitch fans is good regardless.
Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 12/08/08 at 12:33 PM ET