haha, this is ridiculous. d, for all his eloquent posts, is missing the point. as far as i know, people are always looking to make money, especially people that are already rich. if there is demand for a new arena, one will be built. there was no demand for one, because it was obvious that it was not a viable financial option. it wasn’t an option because no one, even all these smart, rich people who invest in projects like this for a living, believed no money could be made. and, like we’ve already established, money comes fans, both directly (ticket sales, concessions) and indirectly (tv contracts, which are based on ratings). if you believe the pens wouldn’t have moved, you’re delusional. Lemieux, the rich bastard he is, could not afford to keep the team in pittsburgh. drafting crosby single-handedly saved the pens, as it rejuvenated their fans ENOUGH to get some interest in a new stadium. by the way, the citizens of arlington, tx, voted to increase the taxes in the fair burgh so the city could drop 325 million for a new cowboys stadium. thats about as much if not more than a new pens arena will cost, and the city of arlington has roughly the same population as the city of pittsburgh. and it went through without TOO much commotion.

as for a large corporation not caring if one of their businesses closes, you’re wrong. i work for a large conglomerate, and i’m here to tell you, every penny counts to the big wigs. just like it does to gary. ass. because large corporations have the same problem the nhl has, and thats shareholders (fans). i agree, mcdonald’s closing a franchise has a far lesser effect than the nhl losing one, but i guarantee that that mcdonald’s stays open as long as the corporation believes it has a future. and with some help, i think nashville can have a team. the preds are budding into something of a rival for the wings, obviously something that is GOOD FOR THE LEAGUE.

nobody was calling pittsburgh a small market, a metro of about 2.25mm is hardly so. and yet they still needed some gift money from the league. and those MLB teams you mentioned? sorry buddy, they make ends meet. they have lower payrolls because they make less revenue. and sometimes it even works, a la the devil rays this year.

and once again, no is complaining about the post lockout nhl’s financial issues. SALARY CAP GOOD. REVENUE SHARING, WHEN DONE RIGHT, GOOD. hopefully that helps D

i don’t think there will be a problem with booing STWWT. pens fans are happy, they won’t feel too disappointed in their season. i think we’re in for a great game tonight.

Posted by rwingscup19 from Dallas on 06/04/08 at 01:47 PM ET

a dick?....nah, a dick OR better termed dick-move would be to cut & paste a pic from an opponents comments section & post it in your own teams comments just to stir the pot.

I didn’t cut & paste. I hotlinked. WAAAY dicker.

Enjoy the game, Turk. Good luck to you guys as well.

Posted by Gabriel from San Diego, CA on 06/04/08 at 01:48 PM ET

err...dickier?

Baroque, quick! What’s the comparitive form for the adjective “dick” in “dick move”?

...

Baroque? Hello?

Posted by Gabriel from San Diego, CA on 06/04/08 at 01:52 PM ET

i’m glad D isn’t the exposure i’ve had to people from pittsburgh. i think they’re generally pretty decent dudes, just animated about their sports, like anywhere. D however is on a whole nother level of idiot. i think he may actually be from cleveland.

at what point did babcock cry? when he bluntly said they just didn’t get it done monday?

Posted by rwingscup19 from Dallas on 06/04/08 at 01:54 PM ET

as far as i know, people are always looking to make money, especially people that are already rich. if there is demand for a new arena, one will be built. there was no demand for one, because it was obvious that it was not a viable financial option.

You are just plain wrong.  Look at Seattle in the NBA.  Look at Cleveland in the NFL in the 90s.  The fan support is/was there in those instances and yet the teams are/went out the door.  Its not a simple equation of fan support must equal this to get a stadium/arena.  Sometimes sure the team leaves due to lack of supprot. BUT THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PENS SITUATION.  The people who live and die with this team and have for years are well aware of it.  Writing from 350 miles away, you cannot possibly understand the complexities of the entire sordid penguins arena saga.

drafting crosby single-handedly saved the pens, as it rejuvenated their fans ENOUGH to get some interest in a new stadium.

Just nonsense.  Weve been trying to get a new arena here for over 15 years!!!  The “interest” has always been there and did not increase/decrease in the eyes of Pens fans at any point.  Politics/finances caused the delay for so many years, and in PA, the Philly/PGH dynamic always comes into play in terms of the state money, let alone the fact that football is king so the Steelers/Eagles always were going to get their stadiums first.

by the way, the citizens of arlington, tx, voted to increase the taxes in the fair burgh so the city could drop 325 million for a new cowboys stadium. thats about as much if not more than a new pens arena will cost, and the city of arlington has roughly the same population as the city of pittsburgh. and it went through without TOO much commotion.

Again, just ridiculous.  Equating the desire to build a new stadium/arena with the willingness of the citizens of the area ot pay for it out fo their own pockets is just dumb.  Christ, if any city would recognize how insulting this is, it should be Detroit, which faces many of the same challenges PGH does (post industrial rust belt city).  The Steelers have one of the most fanatical fan bases in any sport in the country, and voters here refused to vote through a sales tax increase to fund their stadium (FYI, the Pens will be built through increased hotel tax/car rental tax/slots monies - thanks Wings for helping to pay!).  The idea tht hard working peopel should subsidize millionaires is one that I have no problem peopel rejecting, no matter how much they love and support their sports team (I wont even addres sthe disparity in the SOL/average wage/etc. between the city of Pittsburgh and a affluent suburb of an allfuent Sun belt city like Arlington).

Posted by D. Myers on 06/04/08 at 02:01 PM ET

Check that - youre writing from Dallas.  Which is one of the wealthiest cities in America.  So now I do understand why you dont get the plight of places like Pittsburgh, Detroit, Cleveland, etc.

Posted by D. Myers on 06/04/08 at 02:03 PM ET

Hey genius:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs2008/news/story?id=3424865&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

Shut up next time before opening your trap while being woefully uninformed.

Posted by D. Myers on 06/04/08 at 02:07 PM ET

Is there a problem with A2Y? My posts do not appear and I get a message that akismet thinks I am spam.

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from Partly cloudy SoCal on 06/04/08 at 02:07 PM ET

From the great Kuklas Korner (how you missed this i have no idea):

Q.  What’s that like knowing that they took that trophy out and it was sitting there and seconds are clicking and ‑

COACH MIKE BABCOCK:  It’s nice to be close to it.  (Smiling) Be nicer to have it.

What can I tell you?  It’s a game, like all games.  You have to do good things.  We had the puck at the red line with one minute left, bounced over one of our sticks.  We had the puck in our own zone with 35, 38 seconds, whatever it was.  We didn’t execute in that situation.  That’s also part of the game.

In their building the previous game they had a five‑on‑three.  We were able to survive, and win that game.  And I think that’s how fine a line it is.  And last night I thought we were nervous nellies for about 30 minutes.  I’ve never seen us not pass the puck.  They had nine scoring chances on turnovers by us.

Don’t take anything away from them.  They played well and turnovers are ‑ pass the puck.  So we’ve been through that.  We have seen it.  It didn’t help us.  Let’s get all the activities we’re supposed to do with our families over with today by 6:00, and let’s get ready to play hockey tomorrow.

Shut up next time before opening your trap while being woefully uninformed.

something of a wedding crashers quote for you, no? quite the whiner that babcock. not like therrien. or crosby. big difference between looking at several specific plays and saying thats BS (which the cleary call definitely was) and making a general statement like “they’re obstructing us” when you just got your asses handed to you.

as for being far away from it? lets see, i grew up in detroit, my entire family lives there, i visit several times a year. At school, both my roommates and several kids i played hockey with were from pittsburgh, and it wasn’t too far so i’ve been to pittsburgh plenty of times. nice town. nice new ball park. nice new football stadium. old rink. sounds a little something like detroit. and yet the wings just keep on winning and not threatening to move. interesting.

Posted by rwingscup19 from Dallas on 06/04/08 at 02:25 PM ET

Knowing two or three people from Pittsburgh does not equal understanding how or why they didnt get an arena deal in place for so many years.  Pointing to who you roomed with or your visits to the city is irrelevant to the actual facts.  But by all means, continue drawing your conclusions based on, well, nothing.

Im well aware of what Babcock said the other night. Unlike you, I was also aware of what he most recently said.  Wings fans have repeatedly praised Babcock for his not saying things like he did, and how that compared to Therrien.  Now he did, and you still wont admit it and want it both ways, and are trying to draw distinctions between criticizing individual calls versus general issues.  Im sure Therrien (or any Pens fan) could show you plenty of “specific” instances of obstruction if youd like, but youll be too busy drawing inane distinctions and pointing to that one time you met that guy from Pittsburgh.  But carry on.

Posted by D. Myers on 06/04/08 at 02:31 PM ET

just wondering then, why didn’t he point to specific issues? could it be *gasp* that if someone had said “tell me michelle, a specific play where that occured” he would have stammered in broken english that he couldn’t recall a specific play? the fact is there is a big difference between pointing out an obvious bad call and saying “it’s not fair!” (thats a paraphrase, before you get your panties in a bunch).

and its not a few people from pittsburgh. its my roommates and friends. their friends and family. their families friends and their family. i actually tried to get a job in pittsburgh i liked it so much. and i heard time and time and time again about the woes of pittsburgh. i’m certainly not ignorant of that. you should have campaigned for lynn swann, maybe then you could have stopped complaining about the philly bias in PA

Posted by rwingscup19 from Dallas on 06/04/08 at 02:44 PM ET

Hey D, I don’t have much to add, but I wanted to say that I think you’ve done a good job explaining some of the complexities involved in both the Penguins’ recent history and the issues faced by the league as a whole.  And yeah, stadium/arena battles are definitely a mesay business.  I’ve never been involved in one of those fights myself (although I’ve lived in cities while they happened), but I’ve worked on other political/legislative issues, and having an overwhelming majority of the population on your side of an issue doesn’t mean shit.  Hell, having an overwhelming majority of the legislature on your side can amount to nothing.  It sucks.

Can’t say that I agree with you that Babcock’s truly pulling a Therrien, but I don’t think the distinction has to do with specific/general instances so much as the tone/context of his statements.  But I’m not a fan of Therrien’s style in general, the things he’ll say about other teams as well as his own players.  And he kinda scares me.

Posted by Sadie from Ann Arbor, MI on 06/04/08 at 03:31 PM ET