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Digging Deeper: Dater Dumber By The Day
by IwoCPO on 03/04/08 at 07:23 AM ET
Comments (67)
Updated at 1124 EST: I’ve pasted below the response Matt Saler provided to Dater’s blog entry.
Been a few days since you’ve stuck your head in an oven? Scars healing from the last self-induced fork to the temple? Good. So you’re feeling healthy, spry even.
The only redeeming quality of sobbing Dive apologist Adrienne Dater? He actually makes the Detroit sports columnists look smart.
I honestly think the Avs would beat Detroit in the first round of a playoff series right now, too. BUT, only if they get Smyth back. They really need that presence in front of the net to do it. Otherwise, Detroit still has the edge with their puck control. But the skill disparity up front has been largely wiped out with the returns of Sakic, Stastny and, now, Foppa.
Oh...it gets better.
Oh, and I remember the last time the Wings had the kind of smug attitude after beating the Avs the way they did last month: It was after Game 2 of the 1999 Western semi-finals, after Detroit shut the Avs out at home to take a 2-0 lead back to the Joe. And what happened? Avs win the next four games, and with total ease. So, don’t count those chickens just yet, Motown.
No, we’re always smug where the Dive are concerned. Always. But if you want to reference the last important game that left us that way? It wasn’t ‘99 idiot. It was Game 6 in ‘02. Yep, we were a little smug after that one, after the failed SOL. Man, that arrogance sure bit us in the ass didn’t it Adrienne?
Oh, wait. No it didn’t.
But he’s not done.
Datsyuk is a playoff bust year after year…
At least give the impression you do two minutes’ worth of research before you start moving your skinners over the keyboard Adrienne.
Datsyuk’s 16 points in 18 playoff games last year qualify him as a “bust”, I guess.
Read the rest if you’d like. Same Dater, different day. Bitter because his team has...fill in the blanks. Whining over...fill in the blanks.
Just get the 8 seed. Please.
-----
Matt Saler, our cohort from On The Wings, replied to Adrienne’s blog post. I think you’ll appreciate it.
“Datsyuk is a playoff bust year after year.”
Dater, do your job and check your facts before you make ridiculous statements like that. I know this is not a formal article for the Post, but you’re still a professional journalist and fact checking should be a part of your work, whether it’s for a blog post or an article.
The fact is, Datsyuk had 16 points in 18 playoff games last season. His playoff struggles were disconcerting for a few years, but then so were the team’s as a whole. Like the rest of the Wings, Datsyuk ably addressed those concerns last season.
Also, what is it with people associated with the Avs and Kirk Maltby? The guy just scored his first goal in 37 games. No one, not even Red Wings fans, sees him as a scoring threat. So if you want to spew baseless platitudes about the Wings’ forwards, forget Maltby. Talk about Cleary and Franzen.
Comment by Matt Saler — March 4, 2008 @ 6:33 am
Nifty reply Matthew. And add this to the mix: When’s the last time Kirk Maltby has been called for diving, or even accused of it? That is an amazingly stale topic. But, hey, have it at Adrienne.
Some may find my use of the term “nifty” surprisingly juvenile. I feel ya. It’s just one of those A2Y mysteries that can only be unraveled in time.
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Comments
Temper, temper. sheesh. the fact of the matter is that pavel has outgrown his playoff inadequacies and will be a force for the second year in a row.
The dive, on the other hand, don’t even look like they’re gonna make the playoffs ... again.
So, thomas, if yer just pointing out pav’s stats, that’s fine. But, if yer a Dive apologist, or worse yet, a Dater apologist, please realize that you have no soapbox on which to stand here. The team sucks, and the writer sucks.
Posted by ColdWar on 03/04/08 at 08:34 AM ET
You would know Thomas, I’m sure you have the spreadsheets to back it up.
Posted by drgdado from A2 on 03/04/08 at 08:36 AM ET
Thomarse,
Your selective, hit-&-miss appearances here in the A2Y comment section are entertaining to say the least.
But that was a pretty quick defense there - did you just blow your cover???
Adrienne = Thomarse?
Posted by Hoser from Downer Peninsula, Michigan on 03/04/08 at 08:36 AM ET
^Why do you care and why are you here?
Datsyuk’s strong playoff performance was last year not buried somewhere long ago.
Anyway, I agree that its a shame that Smyth gets hurt just after he comes back. The hit was tough to watch and not something one wishes on anybody, no matter the team.
I too would love to see the Avs get the 8th seed and be fully armed just to make sure there are no questions. I doubt that will happen though. Maybe next year, or perhaps a few years later?
Dater covers his bases nicely with the Smyth clause though. His return is Iffy, especially if the injury is to his clavicle. Even a hurt shoulder though would limit him, given playoff intensity and his playing style.
Also, shouldn’t people wait to see Forsberg in action before assuming that he will do serious damage again? Also, he’s one shot block away from indefinite IR.
A toast to you Thom, you stupid motherF&*($#@
Posted by Osrt on 03/04/08 at 08:37 AM ET
Hey, I am not the one making any sort of predictions for the Forsberg signing (yet, anyway). We don’t know if he will be anything special at all. When healthy, he is by far the best player of his generation, but he’s never healthy. If he suits up and plays the rest of the season once he returns, I will be surprised.
But the Avs most definitely have the talent to beat the Wings. The Avs are a deeper and more talented team than the Wings, without a doubt.
Posted by Thomas on 03/04/08 at 08:43 AM ET
Is that “without a doubt” reinforced by the team records this year?
Posted by ColdWar on 03/04/08 at 08:55 AM ET
No. Regular season record is meaningless. You play in a very weak division and have had no significant periods where your best players were injured. We play in one of the toughest divisions in hockey and went over a month with our three best players hurt. Plus, your team has a great coach, while ours is a complete Houlihan.
That doesn’t change the fact that we have a more talented team than Detroit.
Posted by Thomas on 03/04/08 at 09:18 AM ET
Congrats on your new blog Thomm. Hope to see your 2003 draft powerpoint/book report up there soon.
Posted by IwoCPO from Washington, DC on 03/04/08 at 09:22 AM ET
So if they played “right now” (with Smyth back - - somehow that’s not in the now) the Avs would win…
Doesn’t that translate to “As long as the Wings top 2 defenseman and 3rd leading goal scorer are all out, and we get our only presence in front of the opposing net back, we can definitely take these guys”?
Bold predictions are not this guy’s strong suit…
Posted by BDH on 03/04/08 at 09:23 AM ET
ok. divisional play doesn’t count. crap. how about the season series? I mean the Dive Swept the Wings this year, didn’t they? Oh, Wait. They Didn’t. Detroit swept them. Huh. I mean, that’s not even a relative comparison ... that’s head to head. talent v. talent. Huh. Too bad your team doesn’t work harder to support your allegations of their superiority.
Posted by ColdWar on 03/04/08 at 09:24 AM ET
I’m sitting around in my living room, after having played Thomas The Train with my son, Thomas
Eh? New playmate Thomas?
Posted by markw from Scotland on 03/04/08 at 09:32 AM ET
Just ignore him, it’s clear his comments are so off-base that it’s crazy to even dignify them with a response.
Posted by Nathan on 03/04/08 at 09:39 AM ET
um, haven’t the Wings SHUT OUT the Avs FOUR IN A ROW IN DENVER?
You play in a very weak division
really? you mean the division the Avs are 7-12-1 against? LOL
good job proving you don’t have a clue. the Wings are only 7-9-2 against the Central. the Central is much improved this season.
anyway, that puts them at 19-7-3 against the rest of the West, and 7-2-1 against the East. btw, against the Northwest (you know, the Avs’ division) the Wings are 15-2-3. remind me who plays in the weak division.
Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 03/04/08 at 09:40 AM ET
Colorado has not made the playoffs yet.
According to Myrtle they need to finish 10-6-0.
Posted by HockeyTownTodd from upset when blogs dont live up to my expectations on 03/04/08 at 09:52 AM ET
to paulinmiamibeach
LMAO SNAP CASE CLOSED ON THE AVS
Posted by Jay from canada on 03/04/08 at 09:57 AM ET
Gee, I hope I don’t get banned from the Denver Post blog for my comment questioning Dater’s journalistic abilities....
And Thomas, you’re stupidity has reached levels I previously thought unattainable.
Posted by Matt Saler from Grand Rapids, MI on 03/04/08 at 10:02 AM ET
And that typo makes me look like a genius, too…
“your” not “you’re”
Kukla’s members should be able to edit their comments!
Posted by Matt Saler from Grand Rapids, MI on 03/04/08 at 10:07 AM ET
I shouldn’t have read this just as I was taking a sip of my coffee. Now I have to find some paper towel to clean my screen.
With the injuries to Smyth and Svatos (who was the Dives saving grace while the other 3 “S” players were out), the Dive are in trouble. I was at the game Saturday night and the Smyth hit was very scary to see. Svatos could not put any weight on his leg at all after he fell so I’m thinking both injuries are pretty serious. Of course, this being the NHL we’ll never know for sure. The Dive’s depth (snort) can not match the Wings.
Posted by hockeychic from Denver, CO on 03/04/08 at 10:32 AM ET
Wow. I knew Wings fans were stupid, but this is actually pretty funny.
I said the Avs were the more talented team, and somehow Wings fans think that can be disproven by head-to-head results, win-loss records and divisional splits.
It’s a simple concept, really. Talent and results are not the same thing at all. I realize you idiots don’t know the first thing about hockey that isn’t the Red Wings, but there was a team in the late 90’s called the Buffalo Sabres. This team was made up, for the most part, of third-line caliber players. They played a very strict defensive style and had one of the two or three best goaltenders in the league.
This team got some very impressive results, but they were one of the least talented teams in the league at that time.
On the other hand, you had teams like Dallas, Colorado, Detroit and the Rangers who were immensely talented. Dallas, Colorado and Detroit all won Cups, but the Rangers were a laughing stock, despite having far better talent than the Sabres.
Hell, the 95 Wings were one of the best teams in NHL history, and they were absolutely embarrassed by a far far less talented Devils team.
But no, I wouldn’t expect you trailer-trash Wings fans to understand even as simple a concept as that.
Posted by Thomas on 03/04/08 at 10:38 AM ET
I’d say the Wings have more talent as well. You have to have talent to outshoot the opponent every night by 15-20.
Posted by moore00 from the Ohio State University on 03/04/08 at 10:59 AM ET
I said the Avs were the more talented team, and somehow Wings fans think that can be disproven by head-to-head results, win-loss records and divisional splits.
um, Thomas? if talent doesn’t equal results, then why did you base “the Avs could beat the Wings” on your belief that the Avs are more talented? You said:
But the Avs most definitely have the talent to beat the Wings.
if results are independent of talent, then your statement above is nonsense. you should base a “who would win” analysis on results. clearly, as I already showed, the Wings are getting far superior results compared with the Avs.
of course, all that aside...anyone that thinks the Avs are more talented than the Wings needs to remove head yon arse.
Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 03/04/08 at 11:07 AM ET
can we set up a captcha that reads something like “Avs Suck” so that every time a dive “fan” posts they have to enter that phrase?
Anyway, talent is subjective.
I’d say the wings are very talented ... at winning, playing as a team, making the playoffs, winning the presidents trophy, etc.
The Dive, though, is much more talented at many things ... turtling, struggling to make the playoffs, overpaying piss poor goaltenders, etc.
Posted by ColdWar on 03/04/08 at 11:17 AM ET
So if the Avs are more talented than the Wings, yet the Wings continually and consistently dominate the Avs, does that make the Avs heartless or gutless? Or both?
Posted by Matt from Chicago on 03/04/08 at 11:52 AM ET
All you have to know about the Avs is this: Every Wings fan out there...in some small part of his heart...wishes the Avs would get their sht together so that we could stoke that rivalry back up. When was the last time you saw another rivalry where one team was so inept that the superior team actually hoped their opponent would gather themselves and put up a legit fight?
Thomas, THAT’s how sad your team is. Your biggest rival is actually hoping you can work your way out of the cellar.
Posted by disch from austin on 03/04/08 at 12:06 PM ET
I wonder if Colorado will even have the privilege of losing to the Wings in the first round?
Man, now it’s fallen to Avs fans chirping from the depths of the playoff standings, as though they’ve been anything less than a disaster of a franchise for two years.
The Avs are such a flawed, shallow team… it’s completely appropriate that their fans evince the same failure-assuring shortcomings.
Posted by HockeyinHD on 03/04/08 at 12:12 PM ET
I have to confess that I had kind of, sorta, well ... forgotten that Maltby was still on the team.
The thing is, the Datsyuk point could have been strengthened (from his point of view) and made accurate if all he had done was cite last season as an abberation. Shoddy writing, which I wouldn’t expect from a professional - a blog means that the standards are a little looser in terms of length and attitude, but I would think that he would still try to articulate the logic of his argument as well as possible.
Apparently I was mistaken.
Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 03/04/08 at 12:42 PM ET
To be fair to Maltby, I’ve always thought of him as more of a “cheap shot and run” kind of a guy, not necessarily a diver. Hasek is the all-time king of goalie divers, however.
Posted by Bob from Boulder on 03/04/08 at 12:56 PM ET
I can’t believe noone picked up this comment above Matt’s in Dater’s post.
Am I the only one that thinks the hit on Smyth was at least questionable? While it may be within the rules, Johnson had plenty of time to figure out where Smyth would end up. It’s not as if Smyth turned towards the boards at the last moment the way Draper did.
Posted by moore00 from the Ohio State University on 03/04/08 at 01:04 PM ET
Right Thomas, because Ryan Smyth has been such a threat against Detroit this year, right?
More talent, you say? That talent has really shown through this year against the Red Wings, what was it again, 150 straight minutes of being shutout? But no, you’re right, guys like Sakic and Forsberg are going to go back in time to 2000-2001, don their Superman capes and lead the Avalanche to victory!
Oh yeah, don’t even get me started on your floozy defense and goaltending. Adam Foote? The same guy the Wings have embarrassed for 3 years in a Blue Jacket jersey? Ruslan Salei? He’s probably your best defenseman, but I’m sure the Wings can goat him into taking his usual bad penalties. Budai and Theodore? Boy, they’ve won a lot of playoff games in their career. Might as well bring back Patricia’s old ass to make it 90’s night at the Ass Can.
I hope they meet in the 1st Round, so all of your sheep fans who live in the past can watch their nostalgic heroes get bounced again by the hated Red Wings. That’s if you guys even make the playoffs.
Posted by Jeremy from Bowling Green, OH on 03/04/08 at 01:06 PM ET
For the record: Head-to-head playoff series record, Avs 3, Wings 2. So when you say “bounced again” maybe you should add “like what happens 40% of the time.”
Posted by Bob from Boulder on 03/04/08 at 01:10 PM ET
if talent doesn’t equal results, then why did you base “the Avs could beat the Wings” on your belief that the Avs are more talented?
It’s simple, really. When the three S’s were out, the Avs began playing a grittier, more defensively sound style. When they returned, there was a bit of a lull before the trade deadline acquisitions lit a fire under the team again.
The Avs have already shown that they can flourish even without Sakic, Stastny and Smyth, when JoeTed started playing like the JoeTed of old. Subtract Smyth and Svatos but add Forsberg, Foote and Salei, along with Stastny and Sakic, and the team is far more talented than it was when the Avs started turning things around.
Long story short, the Avs have always been a really talented team that has only played up to their potential every few years or so (95-96, 98-99, 00-01). This current team is beginning to look like they might play up to their potential, and if they do, they are a FAR better team than the Wings are.
The Wings in the post-lockout era have been a team where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. You guys stick to a strict team defensive scheme and your coach is probably the best in the league at getting production out of marginally talented players.
But if you put an overachieving team who went through the season completely untested like the Wings against a far more talented but underachieving team playing in one of the toughest divisions in hockey, if that superior team begins playing up to their potential, that team wins.
But hey, delude yourself all you want. You’re idiot Wings fans, that’s your birthright.
Posted by Thomas on 03/04/08 at 01:14 PM ET
Oh, and no, the Johnson hit on Smyth was most certainly not dirty. Smyth should have had his head up and been aware of the situation. Johnson *#$%@& up his whole season, but it was Smyth’s own fault. Hopefully this is just the first of many devastating season-enders for Johnson.
Posted by Thomas on 03/04/08 at 01:15 PM ET
Trying to look at this logically here:
Datsyuk indeed registered 16 points in 18 playoff games, and certainly the man is a surgeon with the puck. But here’s the thing, 16 points in 18 playoff games isn’t even a point per game!
Granted going a point per game in the playoffs is difficult, especially after looking at the playoff scoring leaders since 2000. But if Dings fans want Datsyuk to be considered a non-playoff bust, he needs to put up numbers equal to or better than 16 points in 18 games on a regular basis. Not just in one playoff season.
Until that happens, he’s going to be considered at minimum, a below average playoff performer.
Posted by Aaron from The Mountains on 03/04/08 at 01:23 PM ET
But if you put an overachieving team who went through the season completely untested like the Wings against a far more talented but underachieving team playing in one of the toughest divisions in hockey, if that superior team begins playing up to their potential, that team wins.
the Wings are untested, yet they’re 15-2-3 against the Northwest which you call “one of the toughest divisions in hockey.” yeah, that makes a lot of sense. your own Avs are only 7-12-1 against that very same division. assuming for the sake of argument that your characterization of the NW is accurate, then it is obvious that the Wings have been tested and succeeded...whereas the Avs have been tested and failed.
Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 03/04/08 at 01:29 PM ET
Guys, you’re still acknowledging him. Just let him be and he will vanish. He’s like a hooker—his sight is based on movement. So, just stop moving…
Family Guy reference, anyone?
Posted by Nathan on 03/04/08 at 01:37 PM ET
Heh.
Reading Tom’s clumsy yet oddly whimsical pro-Avs rantings is like having to listen to a 40 year old guy with a beer belly talk about what a great junior season he had as a tailback for his high school football theam… you know, that year they won the championship?
It’s over for that guy and it’s over for the Avs.
It’s kind of sad to see Colorado shrivel up into the mid-conference also ran that everyone wants to see in the first round, though.
Sad in that ‘Oh look, that bum just crapped his pants… um, lets leave the poor guy be before he starts flinging it around’ kind of way.
Posted by HockeyinHD on 03/04/08 at 01:37 PM ET
Baroque! Family Guy is a staple in life.
Nathan, you are right.
This whole Thomas thing really makes me happy I go by Tom. Thomas has always sounded pretentious to me and now I know why…
Posted by eyesris from Chestertown, MD on 03/04/08 at 01:52 PM ET
Thanks Bill.
I’m with Baroque. I sometimes forget Malts is still around. The days of his memorable shorthanded goals are long gone. He doesn’t even stick out quite as much on the penalty kill any more.
Megan pointed out that he’s less a diver and more a guy who starts fights he lets others finish for him. So, I can understand why fans of other teams would hate him, but the Avs sector of the hockey world seems to have a special place for his memory. Odd.
Posted by Matt Saler from Grand Rapids, MI on 03/04/08 at 02:20 PM ET
Yes, Family Guy is a life staple!
If you can stand this crowd Baroque, you will like Family Guy a lot. Imagine Iwo’s writing on steroids, animated and with multiple voices. Just brilliantistic…
Posted by Osrt on 03/04/08 at 03:18 PM ET
The Wings have a much, much better defense than the Avs.
For the rest, I’d say they’re evenly matched, althought the injuries have really hurt Denver. Dats and Z are in a class of their own, but the rest of the Wings offense is mysterious! Sakic, Forsberg are getting old, and the young ones are not very constant, only Stastny has been regular, when healthy.
I don’t trust any of these four goalies to steal games. JoeTed is a terrible nickname.
The Wings would win this hypothetical series with the strenght of their defensemen and with Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Dats is one of the best player of this league, he works so hard and has more confidence than in his first years.
Posted by Luc from Canada on 03/04/08 at 03:21 PM ET
I’ve seen the commercials for Family Guy, but haven’t really followed a prime-time cartoon since the Simpsons were the new thing.
But I might have to check it out, since it comes so hichly recommended. 
Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 03/04/08 at 03:22 PM ET
i know you don’t know me from jack, but take it from me that FG is hilarious, if you are not easily offended.
dunno what rules are for posting links ... but the Taiwanese (i think) youtube isn’t copyright restricted ... here’s a link to a fun best of clip that isn’t even a drop in the bucket of great, off color humor.
http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=5KOlIwfEinc&feature=related
Posted by ColdWar on 03/04/08 at 03:34 PM ET
...if you are not easily offended.
I’ve been hanging out here for the last few years, so I guess I can’t be too sensitive! 
Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 03/04/08 at 04:19 PM ET
Gee, trying to make debate points by rearranging the spelling of my name, to make it a female one: yes, you win the debate right then and there, Kookla. I give up.
At least I have one less site to click on in search for any intelligent comment.
Posted by Adrian Dater on 03/04/08 at 04:29 PM ET
Thomas? If you need to get your rocks off by asserting your self-superiority, go get some Kleenex and hand lotion, because that’s what your posts read as--a jerk who gets off by posting comments that use a combination of rationalizations, insults, and delusions of grandeur to articulately re-phrase, “My team’s better than yours, I know it and you know it, and I’m smarter than you so your opinion sucks and you suck, too!” The “trailer trash” comment simply confirms she presence of some serious cracks in your pseudo-intellectual facade.
No one takes you seriously because you don’t respect anyone else or any other opinions. You’ve rendered yourself nothing more than an internet troll, a caricature, and pretty soon, you’re going to try to preach from your pulpit that the Avs’ top four on defence is better than the Wings’ top four because Ruslan Salei will put them over the top, etc. etc.
The irony of it all is that you’re a contrarian who refuses to accept that people can disagree with your opinion, and with that, your hypocrisy becomes clear--if you’re accusing wings fans of being trailer trash, you’re throwing rocks through the glass window of your double-wide, and your refrigerator is running in the front yard.
Posted by George James Malik from South Lyon, MI on 03/04/08 at 04:30 PM ET
Gee, trying to make debate points by rearranging the spelling of my name, to make it a female one: yes, you win the debate right then and there, Kookla. I give up.
At least I have one less site to click on in search for any intelligent comment.
Apparently you didn’t read the other points, and only noticed your name misspelled.
Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 03/04/08 at 04:37 PM ET
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Um, Datsyuk has had ONE good playoff year. EVERY OTHER YEAR IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER, he’s been a playoff bust. Dater’s right, imbecile.
Posted by Thomas on 03/04/08 at 08:19 AM ET