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Joe Louis Arena: Our Home Down By The River
by VooX on 01/29/10 at 12:57 PM ET
Comments (56)
Thanks to the Emperor for giving me the heads-up on the following story from the new website, The Stadium Journey Development Blog.
Stadium Journey is a brand-new web venture. Our goal is to become a world-class community resource for sports fans, built around optimizing the experience of traveling to and attending live sporting events.
Cool idea, and an opportunity to give Herm a teaser about what the Joe Louis Arena experience is like.
Keep reading for highlights of Stadium Journey’s review of JLA, our home down by the river.
Atmosphere: 4
Though Joe Louis Arena is a little more than just a roof and sheet of ice, it’s clear the playing surface is the focal point of all within.Those entering must scale an imposing staircase if they bypass the catwalk crossing Jefferson Avenue. Once inside, red and white jerseys, walls, and seats dominate every vantage point, flushing out other colors. In Hockeytown, an overbearing show of support is never lacking. “Let’s Go Red Wings!” chants pervade throughout the course of the game to accompany the visual display of loyalty. Tightly packed, seating in the Joe is a squeeze. The organization of the arena allows for excellent viewing from any section, despite the absence of leg room. No matter what section your tickets are in, you’re never too far from the action. The young attendee sitting next to me commented, “there’s not a bad seat in the barn.” Few arenas in the NHL keep spectators closer to the action.
Whatever the Joe lacks in amenities it makes up in soul. The sheer number of banners hanging from the rafters drops the jaws of first-timers. Though Detroit doesn’t quite match the Montreal Canadiens in championships, the Red Wings proudly display 11 Stanley Cup Champion banners and a flurry of Western Conference flags. And be warned: If you attend a Red Wings playoff game, don’t get hit by an octopus!
No kidding. When I first stepped into the arena back in April, 2008, I was taken aback at the spectacle of banners hanging in the air. A profound experience for any Wings fan, and I’m sure very intimidating to all the visitors who come here. There is a reason Joe Louis is the toughest road arena to play in, the banners and history throughout the building is one. The other:
Fans: 4
Each game, a sea of red lines the upper and lower bowls of the arena. For generations, Red Wing fans have bought jerseys to support their team, and perhaps in no other American stadium will you find such a high percentage of people uniformed in their team’s garb.But Detroiters don’t simply don the gear, they know their history. Detroit may possess the highest hockey IQ in the nation. From Alex Delvecchio to the Broad Street Bullies, expect to engage in intelligent conversation if you don the jersey of an opponent.
Crowds are extra rowdy when Original Six contenders come to town. Over the years, Chicagoans and Torontians have infiltrated the Joe en masse, encouraging Detroit supporters to amp it up to drown out the noise of their regional rivals. Engaging and civilized after wins or losses, the class of the majority normally shines through. That is, unless you root for the
ColoradoDenver Avalanche.
In Toronto, the fans boo opposing players for being too good. Ask Bobby Orr. In Joe Louis, that will not stand. When my brother tried to start a chant mocking Bubba, he was told that, “We don’t do that here.” Awesome stuff, from among the sharpest fans in any NHL fanbase.
I truly enjoyed talking hockey with the fans I met at the Joe, and I appreciated how much the fans there lived and breathed the team.
Take a click over to the Stadium Journey website and read the whole article. The author wants to hear thoughts from Red Wings fans on it.
And I want to hear from the 19 as well. What better way to spend a cold winter day than recounting your first experience(s) at JLA to each other?
Please recount your first impressions of the Joe below. Also, let us know how you feel about JLA today and what any replacement arena should offer. Thanks, 19.
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Comments
My first experience was in December of 2006. The Senators had come to town, and few of my friends from college were Sens fans, so we decided to gather up 10 of us and head to the Joe. The first experience wasn’t too flattering: we took a limo to and from the game (I lived in Kitchener, Ontario at the time, which is about a 4 hour drive from Detroit). When we arrived outside the Joe, our limo was immediately flagged down by the police, and we were all questioned. Kids in a limo=gang apparently.
But after that, I remember walking up that huge flight of stairs, the anitcipation growing inside me. And when I took my first step inside the Joe, I felt like I was at home. I just marveled at the statue of Gordie, the lego statue of the Captain, and it’s true, there’s not a bad seat in the place. Our tickets were in the 200 sections, but I felt like I was right there at the glass.
The game itself had a shit ending (Sens won 3-2) but I was still on a high from just having experienced the Joe. I definitely want to make it there for a playoff game before the Wings move to a new arena, if they do move.
Posted by Alzy from Innisfail, Alberta, Canada on 01/29/10 at 01:40 PM ET
I’ve been to the Joe quite a few times. I love that old dump by the river. It’s got all the same intangibles that the Old Forum or Garden had. The new buildings lose that but have glitz, glam and luxury suites out the wazoo. Not too mention they don’t have the smell of success.. or is it piss & puke?
I’d rather have a 32oz Molson and a hot dog at the Joe over a white wine and sushi at the Shark Tank.
Some of the best puck chats I’ve had outside here, are in the concourses of JLA, waiting for a beer or waiting to let one out.
Many banners hanging including 6 very special ones. No new arena will have the “ghosts” of Wings past, the banners move to the new barns but little else (sorry about the shitty cell phone pic).
Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 01/29/10 at 01:40 PM ET
And I forgot to mention: I’ve been getting good news all day, I’m feeling really positive about tonight. Good vibes, good energy, aligned chakras (sp?) and all that other hippie stuff.
We need a big performance, and they’re going to give it to us.
LET’S GO RED WINGS(exclamation point)
Posted by Alzy from Innisfail, Alberta, Canada on 01/29/10 at 01:44 PM ET
I was at the first game ever played at the Joe against the Blues.
All I can remember is the lines to the mens room and people using the sinks for…
Meanwhile, you could walk right into the womens room, and many men did.
That got changed around in a hurry by the folks at the Joe.
Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 01/29/10 at 01:49 PM ET
Never been to the Joe. I’m hoping they play there next season so I can make sure I at least make one game out there before they get new digs.
Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 01/29/10 at 01:58 PM ET
My first game at the Joe
March 2006 against LA. We started getting excited when we hit Novi (Little Sweden, Michigan) and it just built from then on. We checked into our hotel and tapped our feet until it was time to go. We ended up taking the People Mover to the Joe, and that has become part of our Red Wings games experiences. It was packed with Wings fans going to the game. Walking into the Joe was like a dream. Watching warmups was filled with moments of “oh my gosh, there’s Lidstrom/Chelios/whoever.”
After warmups, we took the time to look up at the rafters in awe. At the sight of the 2002 Cup Banner, we relived that postseason. We looked at the Central Division banners and thought, eh, who cares?
Then we had to go to the bathroom and discovered the horror of the lines to the Woman’s rest room. We missed a goal. And then we missed another one. When we finally got back to our seats, it was 2-0 Wings. Then we started having a conversation and missed the third goal. But it was okay, because the Wings scored 4 more. The final score was 7-3 Wings. I’ve been to quite a few games after that (none beating Game 1 2008 SCF) and that is one of two scores that I remember. You never forget the score of your first game at the Joe…unless it was a loss.
Posted by MrsOtW from Wyoming, Mi on 01/29/10 at 01:59 PM ET
Unfortunately I’ve never been to the Joe, which is odd since I’m a life-long Wings fan and lived in Grand Rapids most of my life. It’s a huge reason that I’m really looking forward to March 26th. I attended eight games at the Olympia in the late 60s and early 70s so it’ll be interesting to compare.
Posted by Cwix from Roanoke, VA on 01/29/10 at 02:04 PM ET
When I first stepped into the arena back in April, 2008, I was taken aback at the spectacle of banners hanging in the air.
If I were a casual fan, I would hate the Joe. I understand why it needs to be replaced but every modern convenience gained will come at a cost.
Posted by DetroitHockey on 01/29/10 at 02:06 PM ET
I took a dump on top of the parking garage at the Joe…true story. Not sure if it was my first game, but it was my first play-off game. I think I was about two years old and we were playing the Toronto Maple Leafs. All I remember is hating how loud it was in that building…especially when the Wings scored. I also remember one of the Detroit fans yelling at the ref to “buy a blue jersey”. Other than that, the memories have all but faded. Funny how I remember that much, eh?
Posted by Animal Drew from A Nightmare on Helm Street on 01/29/10 at 02:14 PM ET
I recall my niece working for ?????. She was not a hockey fan and always had comp tickets. Would park in a small employee lot right next to the Joe off of Atwater Street (Riverside) and march right in. Had a key to the gate to get access. Good times.
Now we just leave the car at the casino and ride the politically perfect people mover
Posted by Rumbear from Top O da Hasek, when in doubt, pinky out on 01/29/10 at 02:23 PM ET
Geez, I hate to say I can’t remember it clearly. I think it was the fall of 1980 and I believe it was against the Rags, because they were my second favorite team at the time (because we got Madison Square Garden Network on our cable back then).
This was just after the Darkness of Harkness and the Dead Things era and the Wings were still pretty weak. In fact, I remember frequently deciding on the spur of the moment to hop in the car with my brother, drive from GR to the Joe, walk up to the ticket window and buy two at the blue line, lower bowl. That’s back when they used to give away a brand new car at each home game just to generate some fans.
Yeah, it was great being able to get great seats the day of the game, but I’d much rather have to beg, borrow and steal to get a good seat today to see the talent we’ve grown accustomed to.
Posted by Bill from GR on 01/29/10 at 02:27 PM ET
I was never able to go when I was young, we live 5+ hours away and my family didn’t do things like that. But I managed to fix that in 2006. My best friend from high school moved down there after college and offered us a place to stay. So on November 4, 2006 myself, my then-girlfriend (now wife), dad, sister, and friend went to a game against the BJs. We had three seats in the upper bowl by the press boxes, and two seats about 5 rows up from the glass on the end opposite of the zambonie entrance. We took turns sitting therein the close seats, me and my girlfriend sat there in the second period. Dan Cleary scored on a breakaway right in front of me, which was awesome, and I think there were two other wings goals that period.
When I was sitting in the upper area, I noticed people turning around with their cameras quite a bit. Looking behind me, was Steve Yzerman sitting next to Gordie Howe. That was pretty cool, to be that close to legends like that.
This was during the time when Federov played for the BJs, and I was expecting loud booing, which I do not participate in, never have. But I was surprised, it is much louder on tv than it was in person. My sister is a huge Draper fan, and wore her jersey she has. She also brought a Wing Nut hat, but was too embarassed to wear it, so my dad was wearing it for a bit. My girlfriend/wife is from Canada and a Leafs fan, and she even wore a Leafs shirt to this game, but was afraid to take her sweatshirt off. She mostly wore it to bug us anyway.
The wings won that game 4-1. It was so cool to be there, I have been back there once since then, for a preseason game against the leafs, which the wings won 4-0. Too bad the preseason is the only time they seem to be able to beat them. Wish I could go back again soon, but money is just too tight right now.
Posted by Bent from The U.P. on 01/29/10 at 02:59 PM ET
Not to try and hijack the conversation/story swapping, but did you guys here about Erat talking smack about Zetterman?
http://www.nightmareonhelmstreet.com/2010-articles/january/oh-its-on-now-bubba.html
Posted by Animal Drew from A Nightmare on Helm Street on 01/29/10 at 03:02 PM ET
I can’t remember the first game I went to, but the one that sticks out was the night of the Osgood-Roy fight, I literally thought the place was going to come apart, I have never EVER heard cheering that loud.
Also, I was there when Yzerman scored his 600th, also, loud as hell, when the Joe is rockin’, its ROCKIN’
Also, went to some Detroit-Toronto game, some dude dressed like the damn Toronto Kid from Kids in the Hall annoying an entire section screaming GO LEAFS GO the entire damn game, had to be like 80 years old too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuvPpzPiIec
Posted by FranzensMouthguard from Chicago, IL on 01/29/10 at 03:13 PM ET
I’m sure my first game at the Joe was in 1980/81. Don’t really remember but I was only 10 or 11 then. But I do remember going to games over at the Olympia when I was even younger. If they do build a new arena, I hope the style it after the old big red barn.
Posted by Jennemy of the Skate from putting the b*tches in the box on 01/29/10 at 03:14 PM ET
First game was in like 86-87. I was around 11-12 years old. Smoke, beer, and fights in the stands its was freaking AWESOME. I remember Shawn Burr scoring a goal and he became my favorite Wing for a bit, same first name had nothing to do with it 
My favorite memory is spending the weekend at the Hilton dowtown for the SCF last year. My borther and I went to game 1 with 7 Pen(i)s fans in front of us muahahahahaa!! These 2 guys from Toronto next to us were the best. The guy was a pro poker player and won some big torney so him and his buddy just bought SCF tickets for the love of hockey, they could have given 2 shits who won… that is untill they sat next to my brother and I. LETS GO RED WINGS!!!!!!! When Gator scored we jumped up and down embraced in a semi-gay hug for about 4 min untill the attendant asked us to sit down, my brother told her Abby was our cousin and were just overjoyed. She just shook her head and left us alone. I got the nickname ZetterburgJesus in a drunkin stupor the next night at Hockeytown Cafe, if anyone was there yes that drunk ass was me. LGRW!
Posted by Behind_Enemy_Lines from somewhere in the North....Winter Is Coming on 01/29/10 at 03:16 PM ET
off topic: any of you bitches play Left for Dead 2 on PC? (yes I know I’m a dork)
Posted by Behind_Enemy_Lines from somewhere in the North....Winter Is Coming on 01/29/10 at 03:28 PM ET
I was just a little guy, my mite team won a Little Caesar’s contest. Went with my old man and his old man. It was against the Sabres, Stevey Y scored on a penalty shot. I just remember feeling completely overwhelmed by the amount of people, the size of the building, the pure craziness and frenzy of the penalty shot. Greatness.
Posted by rwingscup19 from Dallas on 01/29/10 at 03:48 PM ET
I live 6 hours away from Detroit. My first time there I was in gr. 3 (24 years ago). My dad took to a Whalers/Wings game. Final score 5-5 (I think). All I remember was how loud it was and the Minnesota North Stars mini hockey stick he bought me.
Second time I was on a hockey tournament in gr. 8. I was sitting in the very last row and the view was still good. Leafs beat the Wings. Still had a great time.
Posted by loojay on 01/29/10 at 03:56 PM ET
After a couple hundred games at Olympia, the Joe was a big disappointment.
Seems to be better suited for gladiator sports. Aside from the first 2/3 of the lower bowl the distance from the ice is huge compared to any of the seats in Olympia, mezzanine or lower bowl, even standing room only was closer. After many, many games at the Joe, I have still not warmed up to the venue. My kids remember the Joe fondly. They were too young when the Barn closed and remember all the good times when I took them to all the Great Lakes tourneys there. I will be happy to see it go, but have no confidence that the next one will come close to Olympia. Everything designed today is more for the larger gate and as many luxury boxes as the demographics will support...(not necessarily a bad thing).
Funny, Olympia was designed for boxing and wrestling, somehow it just turned out perfect for hockey.
That article was right on about the fans in Detroit. Very knowledgeable about hockey,
Still, the fair-weather fans have turned it into a big social event…IE .. all the empty seats in the lower bowl until the end of the 1st. The Ice is partially blocked from most seats by people standing on the stairways socializing, with half ot them talking on Cell phones nowadays.
Posted by HockeyTownTodd on 01/29/10 at 03:57 PM ET
off topic: any of you bitches play Left for Dead 2 on PC? (yes I know I’m a dork)
Posted by Behind_Enemy_Lines from w/a box o matches behind the chickenhawk bandwagon on 01/29/10 at 03:28 PM ET
Got it for Christmas, but between Mario Bros Wii, NHL10 for 360, and Modern Warfare 2, I have yet to play it. email me your Steam ID and I’ll add you.
.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 01/29/10 at 04:04 PM ET
1988. I got tickets for my 8th birthday and my whole family went. The Wings beat the Hawks 6-1 and I got to see both Probert and Kocur in fights. I walked down by the glass and The Captain himself gave me a puck through the camera hole in the glass in the corner during pregame warm-ups. I’ve been to many games since that first one, but I’ll NEVER forget that first game.
Posted by clemshady from Greenwood, SC on 01/29/10 at 04:14 PM ET
Mario Bros Wii
We try to play with 4 people sometimes… drinking, laughing and sabotaging eachother is a blast.
March 26 will be my first time there. Very excited.
Posted by jennyquarx on 01/29/10 at 04:05 PM ET
Awesome.
Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 01/29/10 at 04:18 PM ET
Hola 19 -
Facebook if anyone’s so inclined… I’m also friends with Helm now. Heh.
Posted by TeamDub from The gratch. on 01/29/10 at 04:19 PM ET
Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 01/29/10 at 04:04 PM ET
nice JJ, I sent you an email dude.
Posted by Behind_Enemy_Lines from somewhere in the North....Winter Is Coming on 01/29/10 at 04:24 PM ET
If I remember correctly my first time at the Joe was 9/20/1980. I saw Queen. It was glorious.
My first game at the Joe was later. December 20,1981, vs the Islanders. The Islanders won 5-3. They were the champs at the time and a great team. We sure picked their pocket with Jimmy D.
Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!
Posted by Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit on 01/29/10 at 04:27 PM ET
Mario Bros Wii
We try to play with 4 people sometimes… drinking, laughing and sabotaging eachother is a blast.
The game has the perfect solution to how to increase the difficulty for more players. The more people playing, the harder the game is because you’re all in each other’s way. It’s hilarious to ground-pound, pop, and throw people off the sides of the level.
Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 01/29/10 at 04:30 PM ET
I also worked as an usher at The Joe for aboot 3 years. Then I moved to Arizona, just when the Wings were becoming a power in 1991. Timing is everything. I did make the 2002 Parade though. Lucky me.
Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!
Posted by Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit on 01/29/10 at 04:30 PM ET
off topic: any of you bitches play Left for Dead 2 on PC? (yes I know I’m a dork)
Yup. Game name = GlubGlub The Party Goat
don’t ask!
1st game was a 9-1 trouncing of Anaheim…couldn’t tell you what year.
I hear more stories about and am more wistful that I never had a chance to experience the Olympia. The Joe just happens to be the house that Steve built…without him on the ice, it’s just a skating rink to me.
Posted by The Hurricane on 01/29/10 at 04:33 PM ET
Erat talking smack about Zetterman?
Erat needs to get Stu-rolled or Kronwalled tonight.
Posted by WingsFanInBeanLand from Lidstrom's head telling him 1 more year on 01/29/10 at 04:36 PM ET
Yup. Game name = GlubGlub The Party Goat
Posted by The Hurricane on 01/29/10 at 04:33 PM ET
hahahaha I think it’s a great name. I’m ZetterburgJesus, AKA Kurt Russel
I’ll add you to friends when I get home. I have a Vent server as well if any of you guys have mics.
Posted by Behind_Enemy_Lines from somewhere in the North....Winter Is Coming on 01/29/10 at 04:45 PM ET
Unfortunately I’ve never been, as my mom moved the two of us out of Detroit to California when I was two and a half years old. All of my extended family was still there however, and even though we visited some times twice a year or more every year until I was 18, the chance to go to a game never came up during the visits.
Quick off topic - J Wil back tonight, Abby sent to Grand Rapids, should be an interesting game on all accounts.
Posted by stayouttamalibu from Temporarily in Tempe, AZ on 01/29/10 at 05:05 PM ET
Alex, I’ll take “Things You Don’t Expect” for $1200…
(He seems like a good, normal kid.)
Posted by TeamDub from The gratch. on 01/29/10 at 05:16 PM ET
Yup. Game name = GlubGlub The Party Goat
Posted by The Hurricane on 01/29/10 at 04:33 PM ET
Hey hurricane what is the email address you used to sign up, or your acctual steam ID name. I can’t add you by your game name.
Posted by Behind_Enemy_Lines from somewhere in the North....Winter Is Coming on 01/29/10 at 05:27 PM ET
My first visit to Joe Louis Arena was not for a Wings game , but rather a concert. I admit somewhat embarrassingly it was a Styx show 
.
My first Wings game at the Joe was in 1982 against the recently relocated Atlanta/Calgary Flames. My buddies and I had upper bowl tickets that cost I think around $12.50 and midway through the 2nd, we weaseled our way down to the glass. In those days there were plenty of seats and no guards to hassle you. Tickets that cost $12.50 ,Giant $1.50 beers, lower bowl seats and lot’s of bad Redwings hockey. Ahh those were the days 
.
Posted by Down River Dan on 01/29/10 at 05:38 PM ET
Never been to the Joe. It’s about a 12 hour drive from here. I’ll go someday…
Voox, if you’re taking suggestions for the live blog, maybe go with a little home grown talent and give Dr. Love a call?
Posted by ITDeuce from The Land of Ice and Snow on 01/29/10 at 05:39 PM ET
embarrassingly it was a Styx show
Posted by Down River Dan on 01/29/10 at 05:38 PM ET
Don’t you know that it’s a grand illution? Deep inside were all the same. I prob butcherd the lyrics but I was close. lol
Posted by Behind_Enemy_Lines from somewhere in the North....Winter Is Coming on 01/29/10 at 05:42 PM ET
Voox, if you’re taking suggestions for the live blog, maybe go with a little home grown talent and give Dr. Love a call?
Posted by ITDeuce on 01/29/10 at 05:39 PM ET
As long as we’re offering up suggestions, I vote for the Stooges “Search and Destroy”.
Posted by Jennemy of the Skate from putting the b*tches in the box on 01/29/10 at 05:43 PM ET
Thought you guys should see this. It’s a recent comment at the end of a really old thread that I had subscribed to comments:
Since I recently saw a Facebook link to this on a fake Darren Helm’s page by someone involved with this cause, I wanted to clarifiy that any Darren Helm that has added you on Facebook IS NOT the Detroit Red Wings Player.
Take note of this by questioning the legitimacy of “Darren Helm” on their wall—-your comments will swiftly be deleted by the imposter(s).
As a regular reader of many of your blogs and a close friend of the guy (my favourite blog inspired nickname for him being “Nightmare”) I would appreciate that the Red Wings Blogsphere remain seperate from unverified Red Wings players Facebook sites.
Thanks for your time.
Posted by Anonymous from Selkirk on 01/28/10 at 01:31 PM ET
Posted by jennyquarx on 01/29/10 at 05:46 PM ET
My first game was four years ago when I was 16. My parents never really cared about taking me to a game seen as they are both from Colombia and didn’t understand hockey (or why I liked it so much), but when a good friend of mine asked if I would like to go with her and her dad I practically begged my parents to let me go. I sat second row behind the goalie next to the zamboni entrance. It was pretty cool. Even though the drunk college kid next to me “accidently” spilled his beer in my lap, I loved every minute of it. They were playing Anaheim (they lost.. in overtime).
This season I have been to a lot more games simply because I discovered the $15 student tickets. Honestly the best thing ever. 15 dollars for any upper bowl seats for any home game.
LGRW
Posted by Nati on 01/29/10 at 05:52 PM ET
Songs? Let’s see. “Beautiful Loser”. It’s all I got. Bitches.
Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!
Posted by Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit on 01/29/10 at 05:52 PM ET
Since we’re playing Nash-tucky tonight, how about Toby Keith’s “Get Drunk and Be Somebody”
Posted by FranzensMouthguard from Chicago, IL on 01/29/10 at 05:52 PM ET
Toby Keith’s “Get Drunk and Be Somebody”
He’s from Oklahoma I think.
Good choice Kate, bring back the ol’ standby. Seger.
Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 01/29/10 at 05:57 PM ET
Hurricane, if you get a friend request later from the host of The Price is Right, don’t be afraid, he just wants to play Plinko, bitches.
Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 01/29/10 at 05:57 PM ET
Just got this from VooX:
Let the 19 know I’m still not home and the LB will be closer to gametime than usual.
Posted by Jennemy of the Skate from putting the b*tches in the box on 01/29/10 at 06:30 PM ET
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About Abel to Yzerman
Welcome to Abel to Yzerman, a Red Wing blog since 1977. No other site on the internet has better-researched, fact-laden and better prepared discussions than A2Y. Re-phrase: we do little research, find facts and stats highly overrated and claim little to no preparation. There are 19 readers of A2Y. No more, no less. All of them, except maybe one, are juvenile in nature. Reminding them of that in the comment section will only encourage them to prove that. Your suggestions and critiques are welcome: .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
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My first experience was last February at the Anaheim game with other A2Y people.
And what I’d like to see in a new one ... that would be a loooooooooong discussion, covering everything from architecture to atmosphere to food to shopping to interface with the surrounding community. Best not to start rambling because I’m not sure when I’d stop.
Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 01/29/10 at 01:29 PM ET