I’ll take Empty Rhetoric for $1000 please Alex.

Posted by HockeyJoe from Upstate New York on 11/24/08 at 02:27 PM ET

irrelevant

stevey would play if he was missing a leg

Posted by rwingscup19 from Dallas on 11/24/08 at 02:42 PM ET

It’s Burnside. This rhetoric is par for the course.

Posted by Alan from Atlanta on 11/24/08 at 02:43 PM ET

I could be wrong, but i do not think the author is saying Morrow is the same as Yzerman, or saying the Stars are the same as the Wings.

I think the comparison the author was trying to make is: the importance of Morrow to the Stars is similar to the importance of Yzerman to the old Wings

Posted by shiki on 11/24/08 at 03:07 PM ET

I think the comparison the author was trying to make is: the importance of Morrow to the Stars is similar to the importance of Yzerman to the old Wings

I understand that and my point is this:  If Morrow’s importance to Dallas is equal to Yzerman’s in Detroit, how come the Stars, with (arguably) a better team than the one they had last year, were in last place before he got hurt?

Like I said in the post, I can see how some could find this trivial.  Got it.  But if you’re going to compare anyone, in any way, to Steve Yzerman then the comparison should have some sort of validity.  In this case, the Stars’ record would indicate there can be no comparison between the two, in any form.

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 11/24/08 at 03:12 PM ET

One more thing.  I’d say there is one Captain in the entire league who deserves to be mentioned in the same sentence as Yzerman:  Iginla.

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 11/24/08 at 03:14 PM ET

One more thing.  I’d say there is one Captain in the entire league who deserves to be mentioned in the same sentence as Yzerman:  Iginla.

Did you mean Lidstrom? How much of a leader do you think he was behind the scenes when Stevie was wearing the C?

Iginla deserves a lot of credit, but talk to me when he’s got a ring (as captain, not some Ray Bourqualance shit). That team should’ve beat Tampa.

Posted by Nathan on 11/24/08 at 03:21 PM ET

Did you mean Lidstrom? How much of a leader do you think he was behind the scenes when Stevie was wearing the C?

Well, well, well.  Look what I’ve started.  No, I didn’t mean Lidstrom.

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 11/24/08 at 03:23 PM ET

Bah, to in any way equate that loser to The Captain is hockey sacrilege.

If a team is fortunate to even have something approaching an Yzerman equivalent (not many do), he isn’t their most important player. He’s their soul, their identity. For the latter part of the Yzerman Era, the Wings’ most important player was Lidstrom, but their identity was tied to #19.

You could make an argument that Morrow is the Stars’ identity, but not in any positive way.

Posted by Matt Saler from Grand Rapids, MI on 11/24/08 at 03:24 PM ET

No, I didn’t mean Lidstrom.

why not?  You don’t think Lidstrom is a good captain?  You don’t like #5?  You think Niklas is not doing a good enough job?  You think Iggy is better? 

Whats up Chief?!

Posted by cementslinger from Midland MI on 11/24/08 at 03:30 PM ET

He re-established himself as one of the top leaders in the game by scoring big goals

If by big goals you mean the one in overtime to oust the Sharks from the WCSF, please don’t try and compare that to “The Shot” that Stevie blasted by John Casey…maybe if Morrow had picked the puck off of some guy who wore #99 like The Captain did…what was his name?
(Yeah, he played for St. Louis for all of those who don’t remember.)

One big overtime goal in the playoffs does not an Yzerman make.

This “devasting loss of Morrow” would be like the captain of the Titanic stubbing his toe running to the life boat and everyone being like “Ok, NOW we’re screwed.”

Posted by Animal Drew from A Nightmare on Helm Street on 11/24/08 at 03:39 PM ET

You don’t think Lidstrom is a good captain?  You don’t like #5?  You think Niklas is not doing a good enough job?  You think Iggy is better?

Yeah, that’s what he’s saying. Chief is not a fan of the generally quite type in a Captain, and judging from previous comments, thinks that Lids doesn’t have the team by the sac the way Stevie did.

Greatest Captain in pro sports versus a great captain. Yea, that’s fair.

And MotherF&#$% Iginla. I have a lot of respect for Big Tree but he, like Stevie, will not go down as one of the all-time greats without a ring or two.

Posted by Osrt on 11/24/08 at 03:45 PM ET

more like the Lions losing John Kitna?  I’m just asking.

The Stars are in last place ...... the bus is going over the cliff, lamenting the loss of the driver doesn’t seem terribly productive.  They could always have Barry Melrose come in and help “right” the team…....nobody has snatched him up yet.

Posted by Rumbear from Top O da Hasek, sippin rum & catchin some rays on 11/24/08 at 03:47 PM ET

why not?  You don’t think Lidstrom is a good captain?  You don’t like #5?  You think Niklas is not doing a good enough job?  You think Iggy is better?

Whats up Chief?!

Damn right, Chief hates Lidstrom and thinks we should’ve traded him for Pronger in 1995, I read it on his blog post from the night right after the Devils knocked us out…

because, as you know, this blog has been around since 1977.

Posted by Nathan on 11/24/08 at 03:51 PM ET

Ok.  Osrt is right in that I believe a Captain should have a level of intensity that is unmatched by anyone else on the team.  I think we all agree that Yzerman had that.  I believe Iginla does too.

But does that mean I think Lidstrom is a poor, or even mediocre, Captain?  No.  He’s just a different brand.  Here’s the thing about NHL captaincies.  We really have no idea what most of them bring to their team because I’d like to think that the real valuable ones have an impact in areas we’ll never see or understand.

I also believe this:  the Wings would have won last year if Draper was captain, or Zetterberg, or Chelios.  But they would not have won if Lidstrom wasn’t in the lineup. See: February.

He’s the best player in the world, in my opinion.  And none of us will argue he’s the most valuable to our Wings. 

But as for his captaincy…I could take it or leave it.  To put it as bluntly as I can, he’s a place holder.

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 11/24/08 at 03:57 PM ET

For those of you that didn’t pick up on it, the last reply I left was sarcasm…

On a serious note, do you really rate Iginla above:
- Lidstrom
- Brind’Amour
- Sakic

And aren’t these guys at least his equal, in terms of captain-ness:
- Saku Koivu
- Alfredsson
- Doan

Suppose this is OT from the point of the post, but good discussion nonetheless. I’m just sayin’...

Posted by Nathan on 11/24/08 at 03:57 PM ET

Damn right, Chief hates Lidstrom and thinks we should’ve traded him for Pronger in 1995, I read it on his blog post from the night right after the Devils knocked us out…

because, as you know, this blog has been around since 1977.

Remember how in ‘89 he was all over the decision to draft Lidstrom over Jason Woolley?

Posted by Matt Saler from Grand Rapids, MI on 11/24/08 at 03:57 PM ET

Chief, Lidstrom’s not perceived as “intense” because of his style. I’m sure he’s just as intense about doing what it takes to win as any player has EVER been, Stevie Y. included. Otherwise, why not pack up and take the kids back to Sweden in 1999 and call it a heck of a career as he was so close to doing on a number of occasions?

God bless America, but I don’t think it was Clinton or Dubya that kept Nick around all this time—I think the intense desire to compete, lead, and win hockey games at the highest level in the world did, and that all hockey things being equal, he’d rather be in Sweden—after all, it’s home.

Posted by Nathan on 11/24/08 at 04:05 PM ET

Remember how in ‘89 he was all over the decision to draft Lidstrom over Jason Woolley?

Damn. This is a golden opportunity to set up a fake version of A2Y that would look like what A2Y would’ve looked like in the late ‘80’s and frame Bill for having preferred Danny Gare to Stevie as a captain…

Posted by Nathan on 11/24/08 at 04:07 PM ET

Stirred up a wee bit of a maelstrom with this post.  “Opinions are divided ..”

A little dissention in the ranks of the “19” .. Why?

“The Captain” is an immortal.  1st ballot HHOF, without question.  Fearless, heart and soul of the Winged Wheel for his tenure.  Classy and humble.  Greatness defined—everyone prays their son can be just a little like “Stevie Y”.

Burnside is a “tool” for making the equation, but we all knew he was a tool.

Lidstrom may not “hold a candle” to The Captain—but no one ever could; that would be expecting far too much.  However, I for one truly admire Lidstrom’s ability as both player and as Wing’s Captain—especially the first one post-Yzerman.

IMO Lidstrom has a greatness all his own, and leadership style of his own.  Just ask “Tick Tock”.  He did lead the post Stevie Y team to Lord Stanley, and has four rings of his own, and a cabinet full of Norris and Olympic medals.  He too is a lock, first-ballot HHOF.  But to compare him to Yzerman is simply not fair to Lidstrom nor to Stevie.  Each are greatness exemplified, but in their own style.  I do think when they hang #5 from the JLA, it should be without the “C”, that belongs only to Yzerman.

By definition then, trying to compare Morrow’s loss with Yzerman, Brind’Amour or Inglina is futile.  There simply isn’t a comparision to be made there, none of the three are nearly on the same plane as “The Captain”.  Maybe when they LEAD their team to 3 Cups by sheer determination—call me then.  Burnside is a Tool!!

Posted by Jeff OKWingnut from Quest for 12 on 11/24/08 at 04:17 PM ET

By definition then, trying to compare Morrow’s loss with Yzerman, Brind’Amour or Inglina is futile.  There simply isn’t a comparision to be made there, none of the three are nearly on the same plane as “The Captain”.  Maybe when they LEAD their team to 3 Cups by sheer determination—call me then.  Burnside is a Tool!!

Thank you.

That was my only point.

Just thought it’d be fun to stir the pot a bit… get a little new fire going instead of continue to over-analyze and worry about the performance of Pavel Datsyuk (because 20 points in 19 games is horrendous).

Posted by Nathan on 11/24/08 at 04:21 PM ET

Just thought you guys would like to know that as I read through these comments I’m on hold with Verizon, and the song they’re serenading me with is a flute version of “The Rose.”  I may cry soon.

Speaking of tunes, we need to decide on a theme for tonite’s Live Blog. I’m tempted to put the same Canadian(en) rocker poll up as we did for the Edmonton game.

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 11/24/08 at 04:24 PM ET

We have no idea what goes on in the room, but Lidstrom with help from his assistants has been VERY effective as captain.

I have great respect for Brendan Morrow as a captain, as well.  He leads on the ice with his heart and soul, and can play through almost any amount of pain.  Definitley better than Modano.

Unfortunately for Dallas, Brett Hull has been exposed as the dufuss he is, what with trading away Mike Smith and keeping Turco, and then bringing toxic waste Sean Avery onboard.

Dallas will be worthless till they get rid of both Hull and Avery.

Posted by w2j2 on 11/24/08 at 04:25 PM ET

Holdy Christ.  A flute-laden “Obli-dee, Obli-da.” 

Desmond and Molly Jones were a freaky, nasty couple.

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 11/24/08 at 04:28 PM ET

And for that reason Desmond and Molly Jones are a couple I’d like to exchange keys with… errr, sorry, for a second I thought we were back in the 1977 days of A2Y.

Just thought you guys would like to know that as I read through these comments I’m on hold with Verizon, and the song they’re serenading me with is a flute version of “The Rose.” I may cry soon.

Funny (read: horrifying) story about hold music. I once worked in customer support and a customer put me on hold. And I was on hold for about an hour. And after the first ten minutes of being on hold it became very clear that they only had ONE song in their hold-music rotation. And that one song?

Xanadu.

For an hour.

One thing we can all be sure on is that listening to “Xanadu” (let alone for an entire hour) is the farthest thing in the world from a true xanadu.

Posted by Nathan on 11/24/08 at 04:41 PM ET

Re: Iginla

Don’t any of the 19 remember his gutless crybaby routine in Game 5 against the Wings in ‘07? Awe inspiring. It must have made an impression on Bertuzzi, “This guy’s even a poorer sport than me! I wanna play with him someday!”

Posted by shep from california on 11/24/08 at 04:42 PM ET

Don’t any of the 19 remember his gutless crybaby routine in Game 5 against the Wings in ‘07? Awe inspiring. It must have made an impression on Bertuzzi, “This guy’s even a poorer sport than me! I wanna play with him someday!”

Seems my supporters are coming out of the woodwork. Good work, shep.

Posted by Nathan on 11/24/08 at 04:44 PM ET

I have a solution to the LB issue.

Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 11/24/08 at 04:48 PM ET

I have a solution to the LB issue.

If it’s “Xanadu”, we deserve any ridiculing that PensBlog throws our way.

Posted by Nathan on 11/24/08 at 04:56 PM ET

And aren’t these guys at least his equal, in terms of captain-ness:
- Saku Koivu

Any one remember Koivu’s first game back after his bout with cancer? I had goosebumps watching the ovation that guy received when he stepped out on to the ice.  Isn’t the mark of a good captain someone that can galvanize a fan base as well as a team?

Lets face it, few of us know what impact a captain has in the locker room, we can only assume from what we see outside the room. But you can bet your ass that if you and can look at guys like Stevey and feel inspired by him beating guys to the puck on one good knee, the boys on the bench feel that way too. When fans feel a sense of pride knowing they have a guy who will stop at nothing to bring their team some success, thats a good captain.

Morrow did that for Stars fans last year, he basically single-handedly carried them through the first two series. But is he The Captain? Not a chance.

Posted by rwingscup19 from Dallas on 11/24/08 at 04:57 PM ET

I’m finding it hard to believe that no Pens fans who, spurred on by Boones Farm and a ridiculously low IQ, haven’t tried to make an argument for Crosby being the best Captain ever.

CROSBY THE MOTHER&*(#IN’ CAP’N OF THE WHOLE DAMN UNIVERSE, BITCH. WHEN CHUCK NORRIS GO TO SLEEP, HE GOTS TO LOOK FOR SIDNEY CROSBY UNDER DA BED FIRST! WOOOOO!!

Jesus…I think i just pulled a neuron.

Posted by Gabriel from San Diego, CA on 11/24/08 at 05:50 PM ET

have…haven’t…whatever.

I hate you Nathan.  That’s going to be in my head for hours now.

...

xaaanado-ooo-ooo…xaaaanadooo….

Posted by Gabriel from San Diego, CA on 11/24/08 at 05:54 PM ET

Lol. Good ish Gabe.

One last note on why King Lidas is NOT a MOTHERF@#$@#$ “place holder.” He leads in the opposite way Stevie did. He leads by being a calming and stabilizing force rather than the grand heroics, and calmness is a form of inspiration too. No, it’s not quite snorting a few lines before your next shift, but keeping everyone focused no matter the circumstances is a power all its own.

Nashville comes back to even up the series and I look to my Captain. And I settle down and get back to making solid decisions on my shift.

There’s no need for a firey captain when you have Uncle Mike; it might even be counterproductive.

Posted by Osrt on 11/24/08 at 06:17 PM ET

What Jeff said.  Straight up well said Okie.
The one thing I like to see from any captain is the fire in the eyes.  Stevie wasn’t one to say alot either from all accounts. He was one to absolutely lay all the cards on the table, heart, soul and body.
Nik is very much different and we all get that.  Different people, different nationalities etc etc etc.
For Nik’s career he’s been on a better team than some of Stevies years where Stevie HAD to be the man, the phenom and the one to put the other 20 or so guys on your back. Some of Stevies younger years were formative to him sacrifing his body. Seasons like Stevie had his first 5 years aren’t ever forgotten, they make you work harder and harder if you never want to live through another one like those Dead Wings years. You’re godamned right you’re going to be vocal when you see guys coasting through games if you’ve skated in Stevies skates. And when Federov wants to take night off from some nit picking boo boo, who goes marching in the trainers room and yanks him off the table? Nik, no. Would the heir apparent have done that? Doubtful.
Their will never be another Stevie, we know that. But we’ll always miss The Captain.
Then again, there will never be another Norris Nik. We’ll always miss him too, sooner than later. He’s not going to beat Cheli for the old fart title.
I bucked up to go to Stevies Night. I’ll be at Nik’s too. Just sayin’ personally it was the only way for me to deal with Stevie hanging’em up. Seeing Nik go will be much the same. I can either face reality head on or pretend it doesn’t exist.
In regards to the Blog for tonight, I’ll step way out on a teenie tiny limb and guess it’s not Tragically Hip.

Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 11/24/08 at 06:18 PM ET

No, we don’t really know what happens in the room, but according to Draper…

“First of all, Nick is a tremendous captain,” teammate Kris Draper said. “When Stevie decided to retire [following the 2005-06 season], it was a no-brainer who was going to be the next captain of this hockey club. And [Lidstrom is] very similar to Stevie about how he carries himself on and off the ice.

“Really, what he does is he just goes out and leads by example, with playing at a high level, game in, game out. And the one thing you know, Nick has become a little bit more vocal. As a leader of the team, obviously he feels there’s sometimes, some situations where he has to say something.

“He doesn’t say a lot,” Draper said. “He’s not a rah-rah kind of guy. But just like Stevie and a lot of the great leaders, when they speak, everyone listens.”

When they speak, everyone listens?  One fan’s account of Draper recalling the scene after 34.7 (George Malik was at this event, maybe he can confirm)...

As for Game 5 – he said that they were really downtrodden in the locker room after that game. And then Lidstrom walked in and looked around the room and smiled. He said “Don’t worry about it, guys. We WILL win the Stanley Cup this year. We didn’t win it this game. We’ll win it in Game 6.” Then went about his business like he didn’t have a care in the world.

I also recall Nick taking the struggling Bobby Lang aside and speaking to him privately during the SJ series in ‘07, shortly before his late game 4 heroics.

Not intense enough, huh? 

Posted by yawt from norcal on 11/24/08 at 06:25 PM ET

stevey would play if he was missing a leg

Damn right.  Stevie Y can carry a whole franchise on one missing leg.

Posted by SYF from a "Bron-Y-Aur Stomp" on 11/24/08 at 06:52 PM ET

Re: Iginla

Don’t any of the 19 remember his gutless crybaby routine in Game 5 against the Wings in ‘07?

Guess where the aforementioned pic is from?

(That should just about do it…sorry!)

Posted by yawt from norcal on 11/24/08 at 06:59 PM ET

They based the knight in the Monthy Python movie who keeps fighting even with no legs after The Captain.  Iginla is Captain Tenacity.  Love the guy.  Pure stud, who any team is lucky to have.  But the Dynasty stopped him as they do all stars the other night.

All this talk of Canadian music, and no talk of Leonard Cohen?  For shame, bitches, for shame.

Posted by VooX from Behind the Bar in the Hasek Club Car on 11/24/08 at 09:05 PM ET

Interesting, apparently the sharks signed Claude Lemieux to a try out contract. . . Like we needed more reason to beat the sharks.

Posted by halomasterd4n on 11/24/08 at 09:14 PM ET

Wow, and I actually liked the Sharks (except meeting them in the playoffs)... now they have the biggest D-bag in all of modern hockey.  Just another notch up the yet to be revealed Rivalry Chart…

GOD I HATE LEMIEUX…

“Will hit Lemiuex from behind for food”
-sign held by Toronto panhandler

Posted by VooX from Behind the Bar in the Hasek Club Car on 11/24/08 at 09:20 PM ET

“Xanadu”......might be on to something…must be a Paul Anka cover of that somewhere.

Posted by Rumbear from Top O da Hasek, sippin rum & catchin some rays on 11/24/08 at 09:22 PM ET

VooX and halomaster, I thought Lemieux signed with the Sharks…in China.

Posted by SYF from a "Bron-Y-Aur Stomp" on 11/24/08 at 09:27 PM ET

[smacks himself on the forehead]

”...the sharks signed Claude Lemieux to a try out contract.”

Arrrggghh…the arrogance of not reading fully.

Posted by SYF from a "Bron-Y-Aur Stomp" on 11/24/08 at 09:33 PM ET

Somebody’s got to teach Big Joe how to turtle….

Posted by calquake on 11/24/08 at 09:36 PM ET

The rebirth of the rivalry? The second coming of the Av’s?
Can it be… a reason to circle dates on the calendar???
We’re keepin’ Mac around if for nothing else than maybe one more go just for fun. But I think they actually have spoken in a civil manner since those years… but Mac’s been fiesty lately.

Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 11/24/08 at 10:27 PM ET

On par with any of those three guys?  Even rwhater LOLs at that one.  Hey Scotty, those other guys had/have this thing called “talent.”  May want to look it up.

Posted by rwhater on 11/25/08 at 02:01 PM ET