Abel to Yzerman
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On Labor And A Meaningless Training Camp
by IwoCPO on 09/02/08 at 10:05 AM ET
Comments (23)
Good morning. Happy Labor Day plus 1. Are you considering all those mothers out there? You should be. Yesterday was a holiday to celebrate the history of labor. In many cases, at least twenty to twenty eight hours of it. Men? We can’t fathom labor. And we’re reminded of that frequently. No matter how hard our days are, our weeks, our months at work. It makes no difference. Labor’s labor and no man can understand it. No pain we’ve ever experienced rivals it. And we’d better keep that in mind. At all times.
We’ll never know labor. And that’s a shame. Really. So hopefully yesterday, on Labor Day, you took a minute to pat the chicks on the back and let them know we appreciate the fact that when it comes to labor? They’ve cornered the market.
What? STFU. Oh. This:
Labor Day is the celebration of the value and dignity of work, and its role in the American way of life.
Whatever.
So…things are picking up. Actual hockey discussion is taking place. Here? Of course not. But elsewhere. Me? It’s been hard to blog coherently as I attempt to drunkenly navigate the new, but as yet unnamed, boat.
Lines? Oh. Uncle Mike’s got ‘em.
Dammit. I’m a Craig Custance fan. I dig the guy. I like that he’s returned to Detroit and you know damned well he’s going to bring us more insight than your Diggers will. Naturally he was the first to break this little ditty.
“I’ll start Hossa with [Pavel] Datsyuk and [Tomas] Holmstrom and [Johan] Franzen, [Henrik] Zetterberg and [Jiri] Hudler will start together,” Babcock said. “Then you go [Dan] Cleary, [Valtteri] Filppula and [Mikael] Samuelsson. That’s as good as any third line in hockey.”
I’ll be damned and set on fire. God, it’s good to read something like that. Summer o’ Stanley’s a fun time. We know that by now since we’ve, you know, enjoyed it four times the last eleven years. But, I’m ready to start dealing with lines and considering the greatest power play unit(s) ever assembled.
I’m ready to wonder aloud why Jiri Hudler would be on the second line instead of Danny Cleary or Val Filppula. And I do believe it’s time to consider again what kind of value William Tell brings to that third line. I’m also wondering, because I value your input, what you believe the fourth line should look like.
Me? In a perfect world where potential and talent lie side by side watching Intervention? In that world, Abbadabboomothereffingdoo would be on that fourth line with Kris Draper and Darren McCarty. That’s the fourth line I’d like to see.
But we all know Kirk Maltby’s got a spot, just like we know Abdelkader’s headed to GR. We know he’s going there despite what I predict to be a head-turning training camp.
Oh, and we know the Leino situation is going to be interesting, as well. And don’t forget Kopecky. And, yeah, Darren Helm. Kind of impressive last Spring, eh?
Forwards headed to Detroit? How many? 13? Assuming Darren McCarty signs his two-way contract…
Datsyuk, Hossa, Homer
Zetterberg, Franzen, Hudler
Filppula, Cleary, Samuelsson
Draper, Maltby, Kopecky
McCarty…because he offers a combination that no one else has: experience, grit, good hands, defensive responsibility.
Everyone else can head down and wait for the inevitable. There are your forwards, despite my contention that Abdelkader would bring the most to the table every night.
But Stanley Cup champions don’t put a kid in the lineup and watch him develop. Cup winners send those kids down and keep close eyes on them, keeping a guy in the lineup (McCarty or Kopecky) who they know won’t make too many mistakes.
But…with a lineup as talented as this is, with three lines as solid as those and with—literally—every other player taking the ice every night dedicated to responsible play, can’t we afford to give just a little, itty bitty spot to the kid?
What happens, and you know it’s gonna, when Home Keys hits Traverse City in full force and wows everybody? What if he earns a spot? Earning ain’t getting. Not with the Wings anyway. This kid’s gonna hustle every shift. He’s going to work his ass off and he’s going to be, at least, the 12th best forward in camp. And then he’ll head down to Grand Rapids, because that’s the smart thing to do.
But I’m going on record now, because that matters, and saying that if the kid earns the spot, the kid should get the spot. If he’s got more wheels and better hands than McCarty, we should take the risk of losing a “fighter” and send DMac down.
And what if that kid is Helm or Ville Leino? Does the same apply? Yes. The feel-good Darren McCarty story was last spring. It’s run its course. If he’s better than Helm and he’s better than Abdelkader, keep him. If he’s better than Leino, same thing. But he’d better be better than all three. The odds of that are slim, and that’s mild.
Me? You know what I’d like to see. Abdelkader in the lineup, developing before our eyes. And I say that realizing the pitfalls. Oh, and for the record, I wouldn’t mind seeing Helm in there instead of Kopecky.
While we’re at it, while we’re getting all wacky, I’d take Helm or Abdelkader over Samuelsson too. Just throwing that out there.
Dammit. No I wouldn’t. Well, maybe. No. Maybe. Dammit.
You think I did that just for fun? I’m serious. I changed my mind four times in a span of six seconds. Training camp is supposed to solve that crap. It’s supposed to answer questions. But not for us. Not when you’re defending the Cup. Samuelsson’s got a job, so does McCarty.
No matter how good the kids play.
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Comments
Part of me wants to see Kenny swing some trades to get even more young talent/picks, like shipping Lilja to Tampa, or Mr. Tell to Chicago(i hope not, but it makes sense to me)...because I believe we have the best 4 lines of any hockey team in the world, even if one or two of Helm or Abadabadoo or Leino make the team out of training camp. For Kenny, he is thinking, why fix something that is not broken and I agree. It would be nice to have a bit more cap room he has to start thinking about the huge signings that need to happen soon, (Z, Mule, Marian hopefully). We have an overabundance or talent right now. I cant remember the last time this was the case! Great situation to be in!
Posted by yzer19man from Chicago on 09/02/08 at 10:49 AM ET
I spouted off in the KK thread on Babcock’s line babbling (dabbling?) that I didn’t like his ideas.
I don’t like Hudler on the second line, and I don’t like Samulesson on a third line.
I’ll say it again:
Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Holmstrom
Franzen - Filppula - Hossa
Cleary - Draper - Maltby
Samuelsson - Helm - Hudler
OR
McCarty - Helm - Downey
And no, I don’t care about Kopecky.
Two solid, responsible units on the top that could scare the daylights out of opponents.. capable of lots of scoring, with grit, and not a real defensive weak link anywhere to be found. THat’s why I like that setup.
I know that first 4th unit looks wonky, but really… Samulesson has become one heck of an agitator. It’s be an aggravating 4th line to play against that also has scoring pop. Failing that, put Mac (if he signs), Helm, and Downey (who is signed) in there together and watch them raise hell.
Hudler or Cleary could easily fill in on either of the top two lines IMHO.
Abdelkader really could make the team in camp though, and if he earns it, he should get it. I doubt Leino makes it out of camp (I expect midway through the season though he earns a look in the DET lineup).
I also have to admit, I’d like to see the Griffs not suck this year. GR with Abdelkader, Leino, Emmerton, Kopecky, and with Ericsson, Kindl, and probably Meech all on the blueline, and Howard in net… and all of a sudden Grand Rapids looks completely different from last season. And that’d be good for everyone I think, if the Griffins can compete this year.
Posted by Primis on 09/02/08 at 10:59 AM ET
I’m ready to wonder aloud why Jiri Hudler would be on the second line instead of Danny Cleary or Val Filppula.
Because Happy is the next best puck-handler on the team after Pavel, Hank and Marian. He’s obviously not a complete replacement for Pavel, but I think he’ll do an excellent job of finding Hank when he’s open as well as firing some blistering shots for Mule to tip. And unlike Sammy, his shots will be within stick length of Mule.
I’m also wondering, because I value your input, what you believe the fourth line should look like.
You nailed it yourself: Draper, Maltby, Kopecky (with Mac working in when the opposition demands it).
Me? You know what I’d like to see. Abdelkader in the lineup, developing before our eyes.
And he won’t be there specifically because the Wings want to see him develop. His role on the Wings won’t be as a fourth-liner. He’s Maltby’s replacement, just as Helm is Draper’s future replacement. They’ll get a lot more playing time in GR (probably on the 1st and 2nd lines) than they’d ever get in Detroit.
But there’s no doubt that both of them will get a call-up or three sometime during the year. And then we’ll get a glimpse of what promises to be a very effective grind line in the future.
And what if that kid is Helm or Ville Leino?
If Ville turns out to be NHL ready, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Wings offer up a package of Sammy and Lilja in exchange for a prospect and a pick. We should have the answer to that about four weeks from now. Let the games begin! YeeHa!
Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids on 09/02/08 at 11:00 AM ET
GR with Abdelkader, Leino, Emmerton, Kopecky, and with Ericsson, Kindl, and probably Meech all on the blueline, and Howard in net
Both Kopecky and Meech would have to clear waivers if they’re assigned to GR, Primis, and they would never clear. They’re either joining to be Wings this year or they’ll be traded. My impression is that Babs really likes Kopecky (because of his size and his developing nasty streak) so I think he stays.
As for Meech, I’d really hate to see him leave before he gets a solid shot at significant ice time. If any defenseman goes before the regular season starts, my guess is it’ll be Lilja (mostly because of the cap space his departure would open up).
Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids on 09/02/08 at 11:11 AM ET
Don’t feel bad Chief, my yellow Lab thought it was Labrador Day. Hard of hearing. Gave her a treat anyway.
Confusing holiday though. We celebrate “Labor Day’ by ..... not working. Go figure.
Ready for the season to begin. Bought an extra nine iron just cause I heard a rumor about some new pets Older Than Chelios was “raising”.
When does the Hasek get back from those “Pimp My Ride” folks?
Posted by Rumbear from Sandy Eggo, on 09/02/08 at 11:29 AM ET
I don’t like Flip on the 3rd line either, but he plays a better center than Cleary, and this allows for a net front presence on each of 3 lines, which of course is insane. And you can bet Hudler will be on a short leash on the 2nd line.
I’m hoping Kopy makes Dmac obsolete. He’s got better hands than Mac, and better speed and hitting ability at this point. The only thing he’s lacking is the fighting ability.
I’d love to see one of the kids make the team over Maltby or maybe even Sammy, but we know that’s not gonna happen. But I’m ok with letting em develop. Lieno will likely be down there too, learning the North American game, and hopefully scoring buckets of goals.
Depending on what happens with the extra D, there may even be an extra forward slot freed up from a trade that the kids could take advantage of.
Posted by Nate A from Detroit-ish on 09/02/08 at 11:37 AM ET
Fil/Pav/Hossa
Mule/Hank/Cleary
Homer/Kopecky/Hudler
Abdelkader/Draper/Mac
I like Cleary way more as a 2nd liner than Huds because it gives us two rock solid defensive trios. Oh yeah and the goal scoring. Don’t forget that. How Babcock would pass that up in favor of The Best 3rd Line in Hockey is a mystery to me, but whatever.
As for Homer, he can still get his minutes on the PP obviously but his even strength game isn’t good enough for a top 6 forward spot with a team this loaded IMO…I’ve always been a Kopy fan so I’d give him the edge as the 3rd center over Drapes, more potential for offense with the ability to muscle around….and Maltby, well, I don’t actually think they’ll give Abdelkader the spot over him, but between the two I’d like to see what he’s got.
In the end, this is like trying to rearrange a bunch of 100 dollar bills in your wallet—no matter how you order it you’re still rich. (I’m sorry, was that too pompous?)
Posted by Tyler from Lansing on 09/02/08 at 11:38 AM ET
Oh and I forgot, that was with the hopes that we would deal Sammy before the season starts.
Posted by Tyler from Lansing on 09/02/08 at 11:41 AM ET
Thanks to George:
But Red Wings prospect Jakub Kindl was a little too superstitious to get up close and personal with the Cup:
The Cup was taken back to Prague [on August 6th], then on to Pardubice, about an hour-and-a-half away, in the company of Jakub Kindl. A first round draft pick in 2005, Kindl has yet to make his NHL debut, but his development with the AHL’s Grand Rapids Griffins bodes well for an imminent inauguration.
The Pardubice hockey club, along with dignitaries from the city, held a lunch for the young defenceman, after which, Kindl took the Stanley Cup to his hometown—Sumperk—about two hours away. There, the Cup was put on display outside the city square for local fans to see up close and personal. But curiously, Jakub refused to touch the Stanley Cup through his entire time with the trophy. “I cannot pick up the Stanley Cup because I did nothing to earn it,” he stated sincerely. “But one day; one day I will help Detroit win the Stanley Cup, and then, I will only be too happy to lift the Cup!”
Black aces deserve to hug Stanley, too.
http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2008/09/hudler_had_a_plum_day_with_sta.html
Posted by w2j2 on 09/02/08 at 12:22 PM ET
Training camp, preseason, blah blah blah ...
Season doesn’t start until October. I am so bored.
Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 09/02/08 at 12:23 PM ET
Bought an extra nine iron just cause I heard a rumor about some new pets Older Than Chelios was “raising”.
Not to be a “downer”, Rumbear, but the real-life situation here is that you won’t need that 9-iron. One of my two cats, a 15-year-old calico that I found abandoned on a golf course when she was just three-months old, is slowly slipping away due to cancer. The odds are she’ll be gone before the regular season starts.
As I said, I’m not trying to be a downer about this. I know the whole “sacrifice a cat” thing was done in good fun and I was more than happy to play along. It’s just a little harder to see the humor in it right now.
Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids on 09/02/08 at 12:46 PM ET
I was thinking this morning of what the future holds. On the back end, three bruising Ks—Kronwall, Kindl, Kolosov, and Stuart. Now a potential New Grind Line of Abdelkader-Helm-Kopecky. Nobody will ever accuse this Wings team of being soft again.
I can see Abbadabbadoo having a head-turning training camp, but not one that’s so mind-boggling that he’ll be putting in five minutes a night at the Joe rather than fifteen or twenty at the Van Andel.
I could see that for Helm, but that’s only because he’s not projected to have the same upside as Abdelkader, so it’s a case of whether he fits on the fourth line for the Wings or third line for the Griffs. He won’t make the GR top six, so there’s not much of a difference in terms of ice time and subsequent development. Regardless, Kopecky isn’t going anywhere. Uncle Mike’s got the man-love for him, and he looks to have been taking notes on Drake last year—look for him to put those into action, and also to develop a Franzen-style defensive and faceoff side to his game.
Another player that Uncle Mike loves is William Tell, and I don’t think he’s going anywhere except for a real plum trade. And this team, with all the skill, will need a few guys to, in the words of that great philosopher and statesman Aaron Downey, ‘keep the flies off.’ Kopy, Sammy, Downey of course, and D-Mac all fit that mold. At least one, more likely two or more, of them will get a spot in the lineup each game. Besides, Samuelsson knows Keyser Soze. He’s protected from on high by the Prince of Darkness himself.
The only bad feeling I’ve got is of Leino being this year’s Igor Grigorenko. I really hope he’s got the hunger to blow the Griffs away in the hope of getting a call-up that sticks.
Tyler’s really got it right, though. It’s all about the Benjamins. And the Johans, and the Tomases, and the Nicklases…
Posted by AndrewFromAnnArbor from the bank, laughing all the way there on 09/02/08 at 12:55 PM ET
If the kids aren’t ready, it’s not a bad option to start the season with Sammy, Lilja, and Mac on the roster. I think it’s a matter of time before they are all gone, to free up a few bucks for Hossa, Hank, and Mule.
Unless… Anybody know how tight Lilja and Sammy are with Hank and Mule? Might Hank have some pull if he wants to keep his countrymen around?
Posted by Cliff on 09/02/08 at 01:11 PM ET
Whatever Uncle Mike wants for lines is fine with me. He’s earned that respect from me for last year’s run. I wasn’t sold on Babs as the year started but, as it went on, I began to understand his Svengalian(?) touch on the team. Not his quotes mind you, I’m still baffled by them most of the time.
Everybody has a role on the Wings; so whomever fills the role(s) Uncle Mike wants will make the team out of camp. Best of luck to the kids (Abbadabbadooski, Helm and Leino) and the vets (D-Mac, Downey) on the bubble. It does appear that, as it stands now, the Wings will lose a player thru waivers or trade. That means for sure some like Quincey, Meech, Lilja or even William Tell will not be with the club for the beggining of the season. My vote? I’ll say goodbye and thank you to Lilja, but only if Quincey outplays him at camp. Otherwise we take a chance on Quincey clearing waivers.
See! I hardly post all summer and now that camp is nearing I can hardly keep my pie-hole shut. Let the juvenilicioussness begin!
Posted by Mike from La-La Land on 09/02/08 at 01:37 PM ET
@ OTC:
I’m sorry to hear that. Hope you’re holding up okay - sometimes it’s hard for other people to understand what it’s like to lose a pet. :(
Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 09/02/08 at 02:36 PM ET
OTC…sorry to hear about the cat. Pets become part of the family and it’s tough to deal with a loss. All the best.
Posted by Rumbear from Sandy Eggo on 09/02/08 at 03:00 PM ET
Red Wings GM Ken Holland told Ansar Kahn of MLive.com that the club has reached a one-year contract agreement with veteran defenseman Chris Chelios that will be signed next week when he arrives in town. The contract, which does not include bonuses, is worth slightly less than the $850,000 Chelios earned in salary last season. The contract would put the Red Wings over the salary cap heading into training camp.
Holland also stated that he is close on a two-year agreement with defenseman Kyle Quincey and is just waiting for forward Darren McCarty to sign the Red Wings’ latest offer to him. The offer, similar to the one-year $575,000 offer that Aaron Downey signed last month, is a two-way deal worth $100,000 in salary if they are on the AHL roster.
McCarty is waiting to see if the NHLPA opts to extend the current CBA agreement. The current agreement expires after the 2008-09 season, which doesn’t allow for bonuses in contracts for players over 35 years of age, as has been in the case in previous seasons. If the NHLPA opts to extend the agreement prior to training camp, McCarty would be eligible for performance bonuses.
Posted by Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit on 09/02/08 at 03:53 PM ET
Just posting because of the confirmation word.
“21deep”. Certainly describes the situation to a tee. :D
Posted by Justice And Rule from Marine City, Michigan on 09/02/08 at 04:03 PM ET
Here’s the thing about Home Keys, and Chief is spot on for thinking he’s going to turn heads in training camp.
I don’t know how many of you are college fans, but I’ve been following college for sometime and even out east here, Sparty would show up now and again and I’ve seen the kid play in big spots in the NCAAs a lot, and while I’m not one to go yelling about being clutch or any of that mythological garbage - the kid was always there in a big spot getting a big goal or the backbreaker.
I know that’s not the role he’d be filling on this Red Wings team, and if it was, there’d be more than a few issues to deal with. That said, the kid is smart and solid and ideal for a third or fourth line role.
Posted by HockeyJoe from NY on 09/02/08 at 04:11 PM ET
Thanks Ms B & Rumbear. I’m sorry to have drifted off-topic, but the reality of the situation really sunk in today.
As an FYI, here’s a photo of the spirit that will be leaving this world in the not-too-distant future. I’m hoping she’ll keep ol’ “Biff” and “Spike” company when she reaches her final destination. I’m sure they’ll all do their part in sending good karma the Wings way next spring. 
Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids on 09/02/08 at 06:13 PM ET
I’m not of the mind that Abdelkader has more “upside” than Helm overall—it’s an apples-and-oranges thing to me.
Abdelkader’s bigger, more physical, and projects more as a winger than a centre, a guy who can run people with some Dan Cleary-esque upside, except that he’s more like Dan Cleary at 6’3” and with some serious snarl (i.e. a little more power forward-y). He’s mean out there, and mean is good.
Helm isn’t as offensively gifted, but he’s an ultra-responsible defensive forward who wins faceoffs and has astounding, top-flight skating speed, even when the puck’s on his stick. He’s projected to be more of a Kris Draper-style forward, but he’s got a nice touch around the net, and as he grows into his lanky body, he’s actually going to get a step or two faster, which should give him “ridiculous speed.”
Helm has a year of AHL hockey and some playoff hockey under his belt, and he’s more likely to thrive in a limited role, so I’d imagine that he’s gonna get a longer look than Abdelkader, but both of these guys are absolutely top top prospects in terms of what they can provide the Wings in the near future—they just fit different niches.
Honestly, the Wings are gonna push Kopecky really hard early in the season. They feel that the only element they really lack at present is a Dallas Drake banger, a guy who’ll charge in on the forecheck and turn pucks over while laying a physical beating on opposing defencemen, and they believe that Kopecky’s size and surprising snarl more than make up for his tendencies to put himself in position to receive a few too many hard hits on occasion and a slight case of Keith Primeau deer legs.
Moreover, regarding the line combinations…
Babs always swears that, this time, he’ll get Pavel and Hank centering different lines, but it tends not to last. You can put a big “ditto” on his line combinations at the start of camp. We were supposed to see Franzen, Zetterberg, and Samuelsson and Filppula, Datsyuk, and Holmstrom on the top two lines, with Cleary, Draper, and Maltby on the third line and Hudler, Kopecky, and Grigorenko/Downey on the fourth, and only that third line stuck together for the vast majority of the season.
Training camp and the exhibition season are just too nebulous for me to try to predict who’ll end up where, aside from suggesting that Datsyuk and Holmstrom will probably play on the same line, Draper and Maltby will probably play on the same line, and the Wings’ top four of Lidstrom-Rafalski and Kronwall-Stuart should probably remain intact. The Wings will have nine exhibition games that will determine where Lebda, Lilja, Quincey, Meech, Ericsson, Abdelkader, Helm, Leino, Samuelsson, Downey, McCarty, and Howard end up on October 8th, and the fact that somebody usually gets banged up during camp will almost certainly factor into the equation.
Let it roll. We’ll find out what happens over the next month.
Posted by George Malik from South Lyon, MI on 09/02/08 at 06:29 PM ET
Geez…Duke..you hit something didn’t you!
Decided to fire up the old packard-Bell even though you had nothing to say… while waiting for your prop to be repaired and balanced.
Posted by HockeyTownTodd on 09/02/08 at 11:47 PM ET
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Appropriate time to drag yourself off the boat and post about the kids with Home Keys having the Cup today. Or at least for part of the day, apparently he had time to make a beer run at 8:30 this morning. I think that’s the mark of someone ready for the big leagues right there.
Posted by Clark on 09/02/08 at 10:37 AM ET