can’t us moving an forwards to be honest. Sammy and Hudler only the real possibilities and there isn’t anyone better than them for their cap hit available or in the minors..

the obvious choice is Lilja. I certainly wouldn’t rule Lebda or Meech/Qunicey out though but since Lilja’s cap hit is more, and we need every inch of room i’d think he’d be the choice.

Posted by Pharazon from England on 07/30/08 at 01:16 PM ET

Finding it difficult to say this but Quincey to the Kings for a pick in ‘09.  This should solidify the Kings on the backend with Jack Johnson leading the way while Quincey makes his full time NHL dream come true.  I’d hate to see him go as he has pretty good size for a defenseman with average puck-handling skills but a work ethic that’s indicative of the Wings organization.

The Kings gotta get up to the cap floor.

Posted by SYF from Las Vegas, NV on 07/30/08 at 01:17 PM ET

There’s a few teams that need to get up to the salary floor that could be eyeballing some folks and have the relatively cheap and perhaps youthful alternatives to send back to us.

I’m looking at you Los Angeles, Atlanta, and Phoenix.

Phoenix could use a defenseman...how about a bulky Swedish one?

Posted by HockeyJoe from NY on 07/30/08 at 01:17 PM ET

I’d hate to see Quince go.
Lils or Lebbie not so much. Both of these 2 are pretty much what they are going to be on the ice as we have all seen. Quince, Meech, Ericsson et al have upsides and haven’t had the chance to be an integral part of the team but deserve the shot.
Hudler will never really get the ice time in Det and Sammy shouldn’t get the time he gets with the 08-09 roster, or if he’s going to get time on the point on the PP… PLEASE LET IT BE FOR SOMEONE ELSE. We pulled Sammy from Sweden based off some Swedish guys suggestions, so trading him in the NHL might be tough. He’s been around some and floundered & hasn’t added much to his value in Detroit other than taking guys ot of the line up with chin high rippers.. except he seems to find the guys in the Red n White when he does that.
Hudler on the other hand, has scored more with less ice time for 2 seasons now. That could be a selling point for him to a club that can play him more.
TC will be interesting indeed. In Kenny we trust.

Posted by MoWingsfan19 on 07/30/08 at 01:33 PM ET

He’s been around some and floundered & hasn’t added much to his value in Detroit…

The Anti-Digger has addressed this. Sammy has actually been surprisingly valuable. The reason he seems useless is because, with the shot he possesses, we greedy fans expect more consistency from him offensively. But for his salary and the number of roles he can fill, he’s a worthwhile player.

That said, I’d trade him.

Posted by Nathan on 07/30/08 at 01:41 PM ET

Trade Lilja and Samuelsson.

Hudler has way too much upside to be traded. He’s got incredible stick-handling, he fights hard for his size, and he’s an assist machine. The guy is an awesome deal right now, and as he’s a home-grown, I don’t think he’s on the plate.

Samuelsson is a decent-to-good player who might be able to provide offense if you are willing to take a risk. I say ship him to Nashville, who will be desperate to have someone (ANYONE!) who can help out after Radulov left them hanging. Get a prospect from them and allow guys like Kopecky and Helm to shift in and out in Samuelsson’s place. Kopecky was coming into his own last season, but his spot was basically taken by Hossa. Helm is really the reason why people can talk about maybe possibly considering replacing Draper and Maltby; he’s a young, energetic grinder who has a little more scoring touch than Chris ever did. The guy plays like a madman and deserves a spot.

And Lilja could get moved to a bunch of places. Los Angeles, to me, seems like the top one. They need a veteran D-man, and even if Lilja looks inept in our defense, he’s still a pretty good guy for anyone else in the league. I would have said Tampa as well, but I’m not sure what the heck their cap situation is. Of course, they may have just been stocking up on forwards as trade bait for the preseason, but they certainly need to get a D-man or 3 on their blue line.

Overall, if we got some prospects out of those two trades I’d call it even. Right now we have everything we need coming out of Grand Rapids, and clearing up the logjam of talent we have should be priority #1.

Posted by Justice And Rule from Marine City, Michigan on 07/30/08 at 02:05 PM ET

Getting good value from any trade here is a secondary concern.

Unless Kenny told Lilja right off “you might get traded if we need room,” and the deal was signed with that full understanding, I don’t think he’s gonna be the one to move. Maybe that’s what happend. But for the Wings to sign him at that deal and then turn around and trade him would be a huge black mark on the reputation of the organization.

Sammy, while a solid player, I don’t see much demand for around the league. Not much scoring, and his defensive ability relys on the rare good team positioning. Plus, this is the final year of his deal, its not someone a building team would pick up for some experience.

Lebda could have some market, but his cap hit isnt much more than minimum. Moving him alone is not gonna solve the cap problem. But he’s still young and would have solid 5/6 value on just about any team.

Hudler has good scoring upside, and has become somewhat respnosible on D. He is RFA next year and likely will get a salary bump. Wings are already feeling pressure for next year’s cap. Any team accepting his trade would have the opportunity to keep his services for several more seasons, and at a decent price. Again, here we’ve got young PP and 2nd line forward value that a few building teams would be willing to deal for.

Ideally, moving Hudler and Lebda together would free up approx 1.8m in cap room, help solve the defensive logjam, give the unknown Fin a reasonable shot, and might even net a halfway decent pick or 2.

Still, it will probably take till training camp for teams to figure out what they still need. I think we’re goin down to the wire on this one.

Posted by Nate A from Dark side of the moon on 07/30/08 at 02:24 PM ET

well.  we aren’t over the cap, right?  then, isn’t the wire next winter?  we can start the season having stood pat through TC.

Posted by ColdWar on 07/30/08 at 02:37 PM ET

There’s a few teams that need to get up to the salary floor that could be eyeballing some folks and have the relatively cheap and perhaps youthful alternatives to send back to us.

I’m looking at you Los Angeles, Atlanta, and Phoenix.

I guess it would really depend on who you expect these teams to send back and for what roster player or players.

Here, there are probably five bona fide “untouchables” as the rosters (AHL and NHL) stand today:

Arturs Kulda (D)
Ondrej Pavelec (G)
Ilya Kovalchuk (LW)
Tobias Enström (D)
Kari Lehtonen (G)

I imagine everyone else would be fair game.

Posted by Alan from Atlanta on 07/30/08 at 02:42 PM ET

I think we might see some prospects get moved as well.  Obviously, Sammy, Huds, Lilja, and Lebda are the most likely candidates to serve as trade bait, but I wouldnt rule out shipping somebody like Malts as well, as much as that would suck…

Could be he’s referring to a competition between Mac and Downey, though, too- loser gets the gate.

Hopefully KB finds a way to hold on to Quincey and Meech, though.

Should be real innaresting…

Posted by mudshark from Divetown, Colorado on 07/30/08 at 02:43 PM ET

I guess it would really depend on who you expect these teams to send back and for what roster player or players.

I think you’d be looking at picks or prospects in return only, given the cap issues are gonna drive this whole trade thing in the first place…

Posted by mudshark from Divetown, Colorado on 07/30/08 at 02:44 PM ET

Depending on what happens with Howie Boy and Larsson, I think you can add Conkblock to the list of potential trade bait as well, much as it pains me to say that.

Wrigley in January wouldn’t be the same without him!

Posted by mudshark from Divetown, Colorado on 07/30/08 at 02:46 PM ET

@Nate: The way Ken “justified” Lilja’s contract as “insurance” seems to point at an end to his tenure here. I think there are enough teams out there looking for a veteran defenseman that moving Lilja for a prospect or something like a 4th-5th round draft pick wouldn’t be unthinkable. I still think L.A. would be into taking him with their baby blueline.

Moving Lebda would be a mistake. The kid is developing well, and has great speed for a D-man. He can join the rush and even create his own (even if he doesn’t normally score on it). He’s the ideal #5 D-man in the Wings’ system.

Moving Hudler when Hossa might not come back would be a mistake. If Hossa leaves next year, you have enough money to spread around Hank, Franzen, and Hudler (Assuming they buy into the Dynasty). Kenny won’t move Hudler, someone who is a long-term guy, to keep guys like Chelios, McCarty, and Downey. Those guys are all short-term guys at the moment, and aren’t worth losing a playmaker like Jiri.

Samuelsson could be sold for a bucket of pucks for all I care. It’s not that I don’t like him, but he’s not worth keeping at the expense of better, younger guys. I still think a team like Nashville, who needs every scorer they can find, wouldn’t take someone like Samuelsson. He’s been hovering around 40 points for a little while, and he’s still young enough to have a few break-through years.

Getting rid of either of them is $1.2 million in the pot. Getting rid of them both for draft picks or prospects is $2.4 million, which clears up desperately needed space. Plus, getting younger is a good thing for this team.

Posted by Justice And Rule from Marine City, Michigan on 07/30/08 at 02:54 PM ET

Oh, indeed, mudshark. I was honing more in on the line about “cheap and youthful alternatives.” Since this would be a salary dump move to get under the cap, I would expect there would be someone Detroit might have in mind on the cheap, and wondered if anyone looked at any NHL or AHL rosters for LA, PHX, or ATL.

That was why I listed off Atlanta’s “untouchables” - three of which are in low-cost contracts (making $800k or thereabouts). I have some perspective on the Atlanta players, being that I’m here and all, so I was just helping the discussion along.

Regardless of the cap situation in Detroit, though, I’m happy we got Filppula locked for five.

Posted by Alan from Atlanta on 07/30/08 at 02:54 PM ET

It would be very un-Winglike to extend someone and trade them ASAP in Lilly’s case… true and fair enough. I’d rather send Lebbie down the road anyway (geeze twice today I’ve said that?!?!)
Some of the potential cap issue(s) will depend on Mac and or Downey accepting 2 way deals & then we still need to be able to sign Cheli.
Nobody has really ever given us anything in a trade situation, I don’t expect anything now other than to be under the cap by the start of the season. A pick would be preferrable as we don’t really have the roster space and more importantly the ice time for all the bodies we’ve got now.

Posted by MoWingsfan19 on 07/30/08 at 03:02 PM ET

The Wings were highly likely to trade a defenceman and/or forward before the start of the regular season for roster reasons alone as they’ve got 9 defencemen battling for 8 spots, so this simply adds some urgency to what was an inevitability, and increases the likelihood that Lilja will be moved so that Quincey or Meech (the Wings really like the fact that Meech is both rock solid in his own end and is extremely versatile because of his speed and passing ability) can get some playing time. 

If you look at the forward corps, you’ve add up the names, and you’ve got Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Holmstrom, Franzen, Filppula, Hossa, Cleary, Draper, Maltby, Hudler, Kopecky, Helm, and (probably) McCarty, and that’s 13 forwards right there, with guys like Abdelkader, Ritola, Haydar, Emmerton, Mursak, and a likely AHL veteran signee or two waiting in the wings, just as Ericsson’s available when/if the Wings get banged up on defence. 

I’d imagine that Holland will probably attempt to carve out about $1-1.5 million in cap space, but, as several responders have suggested, I would not anticipate anything more than a draft pick in return.  I would also suggest that it is entirely possible that we’ll be talking about someone like Ty Conklin if Jimmy Howard wows the hell out of the coaching staff, so don’t think that any of the complimentary veterans (Hudler is highly unlikely to be traded, folks) are off the table, because stranger things have happened.

Posted by George James Malik from South Lyon, MI on 07/30/08 at 03:16 PM ET

Ah, hell, I forgot “The Chillin’ and Illin’ Villain” Ville Leino.  Add him into the mix, and you’ve got 14 forwards battling for 13 spots.

Posted by George James Malik from South Lyon, MI on 07/30/08 at 03:19 PM ET

This Flip signing is huge.  I think he was our third best forward in the Pittsburgh series.

George:
Why do you think Hudler wouldn’t be traded?  I’m curious as to your reason.  I know Babcock has repeatedly said he’s a “competitor” but his skating, inconsistency, etc.....If I were to list those that I don’t mind being traded, it would be (in this order):  Lilja, Samuelsson, Quincey, Hudler.

Posted by TDeters on 07/30/08 at 03:24 PM ET

@Nate: The way Ken “justified” Lilja’s contract as “insurance” seems to point at an end to his tenure here. I think there are enough teams out there looking for a veteran defenseman that moving Lilja for a prospect or something like a 4th-5th round draft pick wouldn’t be unthinkable. I still think L.A. would be into taking him with their baby blueline.

Also recall that Lilja was signed prior to the re-signing of Stuart.  Not only is he insurance if one of the youngsters isn’t ready, but he was also insurance in case they couldn’t come to terms with Stuart.

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 07/30/08 at 03:30 PM ET

(Hudler is highly unlikely to be traded, folks)

I’m very glad to hear that.  I like that spunky little guy. 

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 07/30/08 at 03:39 PM ET

Every indication I’ve read about Hudler from a managerial perspective is that Holland, Babcock, and Nill see him as a guy who can regularly put up 20-25 goals who’s currently “doing his time” as a PP specialist/fourth line guy while he works out the kinks in his game (defensive play, better positioning so that he can maximize those choppy strides to get to where he needs to be, and fitness).

I really can’t emphasize enough the fact that we tend to look at guys like Fil, Huds, and Kopy and figure, “Well, Fil and Huds are 24, and Kopy’s 26, so this is as good as they’re gonna get,” the Wings’ brass doesn’t see things that way.  Holland’s comments to the AP’s Larry Lage give you an indication of where they think Filppula is on the NHL learning curve:

“We love everything about him because he’s a complete player with great character, and we think he can get even better,’’ Detroit general manager Ken Holland told The Associated Press. “He plays hard, he plays hurt. He’s got great speed and talent along with versatility because he can play left wing or center.

“The only thing no one knows is how good he can be. But even if he doesn’t become a 70-point scorer we think he might be, we’ll still love everything about him as a player and person.’’

The 24-year-old restricted free agent, who avoided salary arbitration with the deal, now is under contract through the 2012-13 season with a team set up for short- and long-term success.

“We’re really excited about locking in a player this young and this good that keeps him off the market as an unrestricted free agent for a couple of years,’’ Holland said. “He’s the kind of player we can build around in the years to come.’’

Is Filppula a player who can post 50-70 points while playing sound defence, or is he going to put up point totals in the 40-50 range as a versatile two-way centre?

Is Kopecky someone who’s going to be a good fourth-line banger, or will he embrace the concept that he can become the less “dirty” replacement for Dallas Drake’s relentless forechecking that the team hopes he’ll become? 

Is Hudler one of those 3rd-liners who’s good for 20-25 goals, but won’t ever be anything more than a 10-12-minute player and power play specialist because he’s too slow, too inconsistent, and too marginal defensively, or is he a player who will produce 20-plus goals and 50-plus points while annoying the hell out of his opponents as he fearlessly goes into high-traffic zones, gets knocked down by a guy a foot taller than his real 5’6,” height, and get right back up, steal the puck, and stare down the 6’6” behemoth like he’s the human shrimp who should be afraid, very very afraid?

The Wings believe that the final verdicts on Filppula, Hudler, and Kopecky will be determined over the next two or three seasons, and they believe that the trio has miles of maturation and NHL hockey mastery to go on its collective odometer. 

I could be wrong, but I just don’t see the organization giving up on Hudler until they’ve seen what he can really do.

Posted by George James Malik from South Lyon, MI on 07/30/08 at 03:43 PM ET

Well, logically speaking I don’t see why they’d get rid of him while they still have a year on his contract. Right now, he’s a damned steal as a second/third/fourth-line setup man. They aren’t going to trade him when he’s still incredibly cheap.

If Ken were to even consider trading Hudler, he’d first make sure that he can keep someone like Hossa, so that means he’s waiting until the end of the season. We’d likely trade his right for a nice conditional pick or two. But before the season? Not a chance.

Posted by Justice And Rule from Marine City, Michigan on 07/30/08 at 03:57 PM ET

his real 5’6,” height,

That’s not with the skates on is it? 
As “they” say it ain’t the size of the dog in the fight.....
Let’s hope Kopper gets a chance to prove he can be a replacement for Dally over a full season, with the bad juju going from Kronner to Kopper… he’s due a break (no more bones please!).
Thinking ahead, IF Fil signs another contract with the Wings after this one, he’ll most likely be a career Wing too.

Posted by MoWingsfan19 on 07/30/08 at 04:02 PM ET

Trading Lilja is a bad idea.  We are not going to trade Quincey or Meech either. 

Uncle Mike is big on Lilja because he is eager to block shots and he knows how to throw his body around.  Aside from Kronner, he is the Wing’s most physical player. 

He won’t trade Quincey or Meech either because neither one of them hit the cap unless they play, and we already have seven d-man without them. 

Also, we haven’t signed McCarty or Downey and don’t have room to do so without clearing at least a million out of the way.  Which isn’t that big of a deal, but we also lost Drake.  So how many physical players would we have next year if we traded Lilja?  Exactly one--Kronwall.  Better pray he doesn’t get hurt.

I think the Wings know this, they know they can’t repeat without some grit.  They are going to trade Samuelson and Tomas Kopecky, tell McCarty and Downey that their is only one spot and they have to compete for it, and bump up Darren Helm.

It’s also VERY official now, Chelios is done.

Posted by John from Pittsburgh, PA (Wings fan for life!) on 07/30/08 at 04:56 PM ET

Fire, fire!  Fire in the theatre!

The Wings have been waiting to see how their other re-signings would go before adding Chelios to the lineup at a salary commensurate to the cap space the team would need.

I’m pretty sure that there are guys named Brad Stuart and Johan Franzen who take no guff, but I could be wrong…

Posted by George James Malik from South Lyon, MI on 07/30/08 at 05:10 PM ET

Damn...George beat me to it ^

Hudler will stay and *should* stay. Lilja may be physical and a shot blocker, but Ericsson and Quincy could fill in capably, although I see Quincy going the Matt Ellis route.

Stupid League minimum. Cheli would play for a few hundred grand if it was possible. I, like the organization that thinks like me, am very big on Meech; he’s the next coming of Raffy. Without getting squished every shift too.

Poor Sammy.

If he gets shipped, it will *not* be a central sister. Maybe Atlanta, since we seem to have a 2-way pipeline established.

Posted by Osrt on 07/30/08 at 05:42 PM ET

Forgot:

Great Job Chief!

Posted by Osrt on 07/30/08 at 05:45 PM ET

If you look at the forward corps, you’ve add up the names, and you’ve got Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Holmstrom, Franzen, Filppula, Hossa, Cleary, Draper, Maltby, Hudler, Kopecky, Helm, and (probably) McCarty, and that’s 13 forwards right there…

You missed Sammy, George. Or is that a hint about something you know is in the works?

“We’ll have to make a decision based on the 23-man roster, the salary cap and age...”

I think that last part is the key here. Lilja is 32. Lebda is 26. Sammy is 31. Happy is 24. I can’t see Kenny trading Lebda (signed for two more years at a cap hit of just $650k) and keeping the older Lilja (at $1.25M). And unless someone makes Tick Tock a ridiclous offer, he’s not trading a still-developing Happy (an RFA next year) and keeping Sammy (a UFA next year).

And John from Austin, let me just say simply that every single thing you said was wrong.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids on 07/30/08 at 06:02 PM ET

Chelios is still there to mentor the young guys. Remember, part of the Red Wing Development program is to have older stars who are past their prime still on their team to mentor developing players. He’s still there because of Lebda, as well as guys like Meech, Quincy, and others who are coming up through the system. We’ve seen it with Larionov and Datsyuk, Yzerman and Zetterberg, etc. That’s why Chelly has been allowed to stick around for so long.

Posted by Justice And Rule from Marine City, Michigan on 07/30/08 at 06:15 PM ET

OTC...No, that’s me being forgetful.  That’s 14.

Posted by George James Malik from South Lyon, MI on 07/30/08 at 06:27 PM ET

Cheli is still one of their top 6 D-men, was all last year, finals not-withstanding. 

And I think I disagree w/everything John had to say.  Lilja has to go, he’s not the second most hardest hitting player (I can barely remember any hits he’s thrown), I think Cheli is better on the PK.

Posted by moore00 from the Ohio State University on 07/30/08 at 06:47 PM ET

Chelios seems like he absolutely lives to kill penalties.

There was one game where he was killing a 5-on-3, and with just a little time left the other team went offsides to stop the play.

Chelios very deliberately did not look anywhere near the direction of the bench, as though he figured if he did he’d be motioned off since he had been on the ice so long and the team wanted a change of skaters.

He did finish off the penalty kill, too.

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 07/30/08 at 06:57 PM ET

Well, all I know for sure is that Quincey has a golden opportunity here.  If he shows he’s capable of playing regular 2nd unit PK minutes he will make the team, probably make the top 6, as that’s something he’ll clearly have over Lebda and Meech.

So if we sign Quincey at $483,333 (same as Meech) and Cheli at $743,334, and only ship Lilja out, we’ll have exactly $1 million in cap space, according to nhlscap.com.  No need to trade any forwards; sign Mac and/or Downey to their 2-way deals; Ericsson, Helm, Howard stay in GR and are 1st injury call-ups for their respective positions; Sammy on the 3rd line and Hudler on the 4th line torch opposing lines all season long; repeat in June.  Done deal. 

(Please Quincey be good on the PK.)

Posted by yawt from norcal on 07/30/08 at 07:28 PM ET

Shoot, $1 million in cap space is with only 22 players signed, still need an extra one.  Is ~$500,000 remaining too little with a 23-man roster?

Posted by yawt from norcal on 07/30/08 at 07:46 PM ET

The Tigers traded away Pudge Rodriguez!

Posted by w2j2 on 07/30/08 at 08:10 PM ET

^No Shh???? Wow.

Posted by Osrt on 07/30/08 at 08:37 PM ET

Here, there are probably five bona fide “untouchables” as the rosters (AHL and NHL) stand today:
. . .
Ilya Kovalchuk (LW)

Shame… Kovalchuk would fit in real nicely on the Wings’ third line!

To some extent, it’s not even worth speculating until training camp.  When Kenny says he’ll wait until camp to decide what to do, he means it.  But I love to speculate, so…

As things stand right now, I think they’re anticipating McCarty as the 13th forward, Helm in Grand Rapids, and Downey somewhere else.  On defence, Chelios, Meech, Lebda, and Lilja rotate into the last two roster spots, with Ericsson and Quincey in Grand Rapids.  They may trade Quincey for a late pick if they’re pretty sure he won’t clear waivers.  In goal, Conklin as a 25-game backup and Howard in Grand Rapids.  Howard’s cap hit is nearly identical to Conklin’s so they’re interchangeable without affecting the salary structure anywhere else.

But all those things can change in camp, and at least one is likely to for cap reasons.  Helm, McCarty, and Chelios all have or will have a cap hit of around $0.5-0.6m.  The Wings need two players to fill out the roster, and they only have cap space for one.  That means at least $0.6m in extra salary will have to be moved (ie. someone being paid $1.1m).  The only real candidates are Lilja and Sameulsson (or Draper or Cleary, I guess).

One other option, if they get McCarty to sign a two-way contract, he could play in Grand Rapids and the Wings could carry 12 forwards and 8 defencemen.  I don’t think that’s too likely.  The last significant option is not to sign Chelios, and I don’t think that’s too likely, either.

I think the most likely scenario is that Helm pushes Sameulsson out of the lineup and Quincey gets flipped for a fourth-round pick.  The other significant possibility is that Lilja is moved to let Meech play regularly and Quincey be the 8th D-man, which either McCarty or Helm play for Gryffindor.

Posted by Ryan from Toronto on 07/30/08 at 08:46 PM ET

1. Holland has said Lilja is an insurance policy and that he will trade him if a kid can step up in his place.

2. Babcock has said Ericsson is basically guaranteed a spot next year.

3. Put 2 and 2 together.

Trade Sammy. He’s a UFA next offseason. He is a glorified checker playing a scoring role. After his two goal performance in Game 1 of the finals his value couldn’t be higher. Trade Lebda. He does not put up any offense and is as high on depth chart right now as he ever will be. Ericsson and Meech both played ahead of Lebda when the Wings went through their injury slump. Meech is a Lebda clone except that he puts up offense. Lebda is just fast, not a point producer.

That clears three guys off the roster, and 3M off the cap. Plenty of room for Chelios, and one of Downey/McCarty. Hudler has way too much potential to trade. Babcock loves Kopecky and he could blossom offensively this year (was having a great second half when he blew out his knee). The Wings will look for him to replace Drake but also chip in offense. Plus he can drop the gloves.

Oh yeah, and trade Conklin. Because Howard is going to win the job in TC. Count on it.

Posted by Pete K from Chicago, IL on 07/30/08 at 09:36 PM ET

Bill might have to give Waddell a share of the DD title...he’s got Holland’s description of his next managerial plans up already.

Posted by George James Malik from South Lyon, MI on 07/30/08 at 10:15 PM ET

Lebda is just fast, not a point producer.

There’s a lot to be said for speed on the back-end. It means that not only do opponents have to worry about the Wings moving the puck up the ice with superior passing, but also a defenseman who can carry the puck up the ice. Tough to deal with.

Besides, why trade a guy with a two way contract?

Posted by rwingscup19 from Dallas on 07/30/08 at 11:37 PM ET

Quince would have to clear waivers to go to GR right? Like Ellis last year having to hit the wiaver wire every time you get sent down, that’s just no way to roll.
If Jimmy the Kid earns the back up spot, Conk will take his place in GR.

Chelios seems like he absolutely lives to kill penalties.

Same sentiment about his role, he’ll always be a top 4 D-man in his head & thats part of why we all love him. He absolutely refuses to lose or at least never giving up on it.
And I am betting Cheli would play for nothing if the NHLPA would allow it.
Meech isn’t much slower than Lebbie and is all around more versatile. IIRC he played forward a few times this year as well as D. I just plain like the kid and Lebbie gets on my nerves.
Trading Drapes or Cleary isn’t happening.
What I find funny is our collective love-hate for Sammy & Lilly. All year long they get ripped to shreds here by 18 or so of us (seems to be a Lilja fan somehwere occasionally ).... and now we are arm chair GM’ing the majority wants to keep both. Maybe it’s tbe puck abuse.... Sammy constantly slamming in into the glass and Lilly trying to throw his big arse on it (aka shot blocking) all the time?

Posted by MoWingsfan19 on 07/31/08 at 08:19 AM ET

I still think Lebda is the most likely trade, so that we can see what Meech can do in his stead-- I think Meech has far more promise than Lebda, is bigger, almost as fast, and more versatile.  And as Osrt noted, he’s a puckmover, and a dual-threat one at that (carry/pass), so his trade value is pretty high right now.  William Tell’s is too, but the thing is, if he’s assigned a checking role on a line with Buckets and Draper next year, he’ll probably shine (defensively, that is).  Even if not, he still had the third-highest number of shots on the team last year after the Eurotwins.  That, along with Uncle Mike’s man-crush, may make him hard to let go.

So I’m not convinced that Hudler might not be it.  As much as I like him, as talented as he is and as much fire as he has, the fact is he always seems to be in Babcock’s doghouse (though I don’t know why; he’s defensively underrated), and he may not get the top-six ice time he needs in order to thrive with the Wings for YEARS.  He could really be a force on some other team-- if Kenny can convince some other GM that it’s their team, then there might be a good return to be had, and he’ll go.  I wouldn’t like it, but this is the cap world we’re talking about.

And I still don’t see Lilja going-- it’d be a classless move unless it’s discussed with him first, and he’s an important PKer.  Hell, quite a few of his Lilja-isms toward the end of the regular season and in the playoffs were not his fault, but we noticed them because it was LILJA.  He also blocked the most shots on the team (yes, I know, our top four don’t need to block shots because they don’t let opponents shoot in the first place), so he may stick around.  Dave at Gorilla Crouch has mentioned Maltby as trade (more like waiver) bait, and I wouldn’t rule it out, but I gotta say I think there’s maybe a 5% chance of that happening.

And the organization’s MO is to develop kids for as long as possible in the minors; to that end I think Helm sees top-line time with the Griffs, and Ericsson, now that he’s on a multi-year deal, will appear in far more games on GR’s top defensive pairing than he does for the Wings.  They’re both waiver-free, and that’s important.

I could also seen Quincey signed then traded, but that won’t clear cap space.  It’ll just bring a return on a player that probably won’t fit in the big club.  If he passes waivers and goes down to GR, that may be the best move for him.

We might just do as little as possible in order to just squeak under the cap this year with a tiny bit of breathing room, maybe make some room at the trade deadline (be the first time in years that we’d be deadline day sellers), and then get a bit of breathing room and make some moves next summer.  One of them will be the two big signings, and here’s an interesting question…

Zetterberg will probably be re-signed at all costs.  But I seriously think that we won’t be able to re-sign both Franzen and Hossa-- it’ll be one or the other.  Besides the obvious prohibitive cost if they both play to the best we’ve seen them play, there’s the fact that Cleary (who inxcidentally has a no-trade clause on his contract, so isn’t going anywhere) will be overpaid in a checking role, and will need his top-six scoring line spot back in 2009-10.  But if NEITHER of them are signed by the deadline, what do we do?  Both of them would be crucial to a successful Cup defense.  And no return on Hossa I could live with-- we didn’t give up anything to get him for one year.  But Franzen, well, I’d be a bit more upset if we lost him for nothing.  If we can’t resign one or the other after the deadline, do we deal their rights before July 1st to another team, hoping for a return?  I’ve always thought that a rather crude move, but it’s a savvy one.  The potential return for either at the deadline could be HUGE-- after the playoffs, not so much, but still something.

It’s an interesting question, but I don’t expect we’ll actually have to answer it-- I think one or the other will be locked-up long-term before the end of February.

And Osrt?  Thanks-- it’s not your fault I didn’t get the joke, it’s my lunkheadedness and the general lack of inflection on the WWW.  ‘Unique’ is one of the better adjectives that’s been used to describe me…

Now, back into my own little world where reality counts for nothing and my imagination rules all, or as some call it, ‘a cubicle at work.’

Posted by AndrewFromAnnArbor from the edge of existence, slowly losing my grip... on 07/31/08 at 10:09 AM ET

Hossa has a no-movement clause on his contract, I believe.  So he’s going nowhere until the season is over.

But I seriously think that we won’t be able to re-sign both Franzen and Hossa-- it’ll be one or the other.

Rationally, the moment Hossa was signed most of us figured this was the outcome - see what happens for a year, and make the decision then between the two of them.  It would be nice to keep both players, but in some cases “all of the above” is an impossibility.

Even if not, he still had the third-highest number of shots on the team last year after the Eurotwins.

But he has lousy aim!  I don’t care how many shots you take if 95% of them hit the glass - and an additional 1.5% wind out taking out your own teammates.  He couldn’t hit the ocean with a rock if he was in a boat.

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 07/31/08 at 11:01 AM ET

But he has lousy aim!

Hey, I’m not endorsing anything one way or another.  Keep him, trade him, whatever.  I’m just saying how it looks right now.

And I don’t know-- more than a few fans seem to be deluding themselves to the very idea that we can keep both Hossa and Franzen.  If it happens, I’ll eat my shoe.

Posted by AndrewFromAnnArbor from Kinney's, hoping to feast on a nice Italian loafer on 07/31/08 at 11:10 AM ET

And I don’t know-- more than a few fans seem to be deluding themselves to the very idea that we can keep both Hossa and Franzen.

Same way Pittsburgh fans, although they knew initially that Hossa was extremely likely to be a rental, started to daydream about keeping him around once they saw him play.

We’ll see next summer.  That’s soon enough to worry about it.

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 07/31/08 at 11:13 AM ET

My buddies blog on the situation:

Red Wings In Cap Trouble?  Awesome!

Posted by moore00 from the Ohio State University on 07/31/08 at 12:08 PM ET