I usually don’t believe in conspiracy theories, Chief, so I won’t comment on if the refs called that so there would be another Saturday NHL game, but you’re right on that the NHL has just sunk.  Over-expansion, diluted teams, stupid contrived rivalries, a TV contract with a network run out of someone’s garage, the NHL is a shell of what it once was.  I think you wrote once that you’re a Red Wings fan, not an NHL fan, but a Red Wings fan.  Sadly, I think that’s right on.  I used to support and get excited about the league in general, but now it’s simply the Wings and nothing else.  Bettman is directly responsible for that.

That call was disgusting and it made my guts hurt.  Still makes them hurt, in fact.  I agree that the game probably would have turned out a whole lot different. How in the hell that kind of call isn’t reviewable is beyond me.  Every time I see Little Gary on tv my eye starts twitching and my hands curl into fists. When will they get Bettman out of there? And is there a more hated commish in all of sports? Really, is there?

No conspiracy here, just a massive failure on the part of the officials, and a massive failure on the part of the league to not provide the team getting the shaft with a recourse (replay) to make it right.

Not that the odds are against it, but the league had better hope that the Wings take care of this series, ideally in game 5. If this thing gets taken to 6 or 7 games, and if the Stars win? Well, let’s just say the NHL will finally get the pub it’s wanted in the non-hockey, sports MSM. And it won’t be good.

Oh, and BTW, I can tell you why that play is not reviewable. Because if you allow that play to be reviewable, then you have to allow every play in the opposite fashion be reviewable. And you don’t want Turco asking for every single goal to be reviewed because he couldn’t see.

Not saying I agree with that logic, but I’m betting that’s the slippery slope argument the NHL would make.

Oh, and BTW, I can tell you why that play is not reviewable. Because if you allow that play to be reviewable, then you have to allow every play in the opposite fashion be reviewable. And you don’t want Turco asking for every single goal to be reviewed because he couldn’t see.

Good point. However, I think Paul pointed out that every goal is *already* reviewed. I’m not sure if the video replay judge has authority over the referee but perhaps they should. A quick call down to ice level asking for a few seconds to review the goal and off we go.

Allegedly, Nate, every goal is reviewed, so placing goalie interference into the pot of calls that can be reviewed wouldn’t be a big deal.  It would simply be a matter of the replay official up in the booth mashing the buzzer down to the scorers table telling them to hold up the next face-off for a second while they make sure.

Beat me, Osrt.

Even my friends who are Dive fans admitted to me that the Wings were majorly hosed last night.  One of my friends said to me, “That game is a prime example of why the NHL loses fans.” Yes, but little Gary was there and must be so proud.

They only review every goal to determine if it went in legally (between the posts, across the line and not propelled in by anything beside a stick that was below the crossbar).  They are not checking for penalties that should/should not have been called.  Just like they won’t buzz down to the scorer’s table because they feel a slash occured as they goal developed, they aren’t going to buzz down because they feel the goalie was/wasn’t interfered with.  Penalties are not reviewable, and while the goalie interference situation doesn’t always end up with a penalty, it still falls under illegal contact as opposed to illegal goal.

If every goal is reviewable than that call should have been overturned. Anyone know if the replay booth gets the final say or not? I always hear announcers talking about the goal being reviewed in the war room in tornonto and wonder if they ever overturn the refs call.  But then, we wouldn’t want it to seem like the refs blew the call in the first place, would we? I mean, that’s not why they have video replay in the first place. Is it?

I read an opinion somewhere else that the NHL has to be the #1 league in which fans know the names of the refs. Why? Because more times than not the game hinges on their little face time over by the scorekeepers box. Let’s face it, these guys aren’t refereeing. They’re managing the games plain and simple.

But I’ll let it go now and look forward to Friday’s, oh of course, Saturday’s game. Thanks, Gary. F$%^ing Ass.

Thanks, scsgoal31.

And we all know that replay, had it been used, would have overturned it.  But...replay’s not allowed in that situation.

it most definitely is.  I posted the rules last night.  it clearly said the video goal judge is supposed to review EVERY goal and call down if there’s a problem - it’s his job to assist the referees to make sure every goal is a “good hockey goal”.

My sports hating wife was watching the game with me last night, so she could bend my ear about a weekend yard project during the intermission (for the record,I’m praying for rain).

She watched the denied goal replay a couple of times and told me, “You might as well be watching wrestling.”

I had to agree. All we were lacking was one of the managers whacking an opposing player with a folding chair when he skated too close to the wrong bench.

it most definitely is.  I posted the rules last night.  it clearly said the video goal judge is supposed to review EVERY goal and call down if there’s a problem - it’s his job to assist the referees to make sure every goal is a “good hockey goal”.

And yet there is this little gem at the end of the goaltender interference rule in the rule book

The rule will be enforced exclusively in accordance with the on-ice
judgement of the Referee(s), and not by means of video replay or
review.

@ scsgoal31

I think everyone understands that.  The point is the refs are having trouble getting these goalie interference calls correct.  It would only take rules committee action and Bettman signing off on it to make goalie interference calls/non-calls reviewable. 

The problem there, of course, is that except for a handful of guys--Homer and Smyth, mainly--it’s not a league-wide problem.  The other GMs would be screaming at Gary not to change the rule.

As an aside, remember the “new rules” that were supposed to take effect coming out of the lock-out?  One part stated [allegedly] that D-men would no longer be able to clear the front of the crease with cross-checks and hacking and whacking-—that they would have to move their feet to try to nullify guys like Homer by establishing body position and/or stick-on-stick tie ups.

Well, we still see Homer getting crosschecked, hacked in the shins, donkey punched in the back of the head, etc., all without the calls being made.  And we still see him getting legitimate goals being waived off. 

Homer, Smyth in Colorado and anyone else trying to establish a net-front presence are getting f*cked in all this.

Accoding to an interview with Hank, he was told the goal was disallowed not because Homer’s butt was in the crease but because his butt was in Turdco’s face. If you look at the replay, you can see that his face is there because he put it there. He’s the one who moved out and stuck his nose up Homer’s butt.

That move may have gotten the goal waved off, but I don’t think that’s why he did it. I think he did it because he likes Homer’s butt, hence the name, Turdco.

ahhh, I didn’t read that section.  I just looked at the video replay.  they would seem to be contradictory clauses, IMO.

In NCAA hockey, that play is reviewable. I don’t see why it wouldn’t be feasible to implement reviewing that in the NHL.

Remember that the presence of an offensive player in the crease prior to the puck used to be reviewable when that rule was in place.

Conspiracy? Incompetency? Conspiracy? Incompetency? Conspiracy? Incompetency? Conspiracy? Incompetency? Conspiracy? Incompetency? Conspiracy? Incompetency?

In NCAA hockey, that play is reviewable. I don’t see why it wouldn’t be feasible to implement reviewing that in the NHL.

Me neither.  And it would do nothing to change the undertone of what we’ve come to expect from officiating in the playoffs.

You want a ‘let them play’ attitude be the prevailing undertone of playoff officiating?  Fine.  I’m good with that.  But when someone is willing to get the shit beat out of them in the front of the net in exchange for a goal, there should be a method in place by which they are not short-changed for that sacrifice.

With goalie interference being reviewable, Homer gets a goal waived off in Game One, but gets an unofficial assist in a potentially series-clinching Game Four.  I pretty damn okay with that.

I, for one, am not about to become a Red Wing Apologist (if you want a prime example, go read Mitch “I’m King Band-Wagoneer” Albom’s ridiculous column today).  The Wing’s don’t need any freaking apologists or excuses.  ScoreBoard MotherF@#cker’s - - a a dazzling 11 - 3 record in this post-season.  Two losses to a determined NSH squad, and one to a determined DAL squad sporting a 7 on 5 most of the night (playing on ice of the kind you would typically find in a sno-cone).

C’mon, you really didn’t expect two series sweeps, did you.  Nah, a split in DAL was realistic.

Having said all that, “The HighLander” makes an excellent point about the Datsyuk goal:

The unusual thing about Datsyuk’s goal being disallowed last night was that Holmstrom was not whistled for interference.

Were the Wings screwed—yeah you could say they got bent over and shafted sans KY.  Did it cost them the game - Who the F@#k knows?  Wings sure spent a lot of the 1st period in their own damn zone; kinda like they were skating in sand (well maybe they were).  DAL played well, you haveta give them credit, they potted 3 last night.

What I’m hoping is that this loss pissed th Wings off big-time.  A little adversity to keep them focused on the “big picture”.  A little adversity now is way better than in the SCF.  Learn from it Bitches!  Learn from it and play ruthlessly—which they should have done last night.

5 is only slightly more than one-half of nine.  Wings can certainly string together 5 wins in a row.  Saturday is nothing more than a tune-up.  Get the laser-intensity back.

Thanks Gary. Ass.

I’m going on record as saying that there should be an invesitgation into the gambling habits of certain refs.

Fine, no automatic reviews.  The NHL needs to at least implement an NFL-style of challenge. Let a coach challenge one call/game, and if they’re wrong they lose their timeout, or they sit a man in the penalty box for 2 minutes...something.

Seeing Gary in the stands, wringing his hands like the Grinch who stole hockey, I seriously second guessed my love for this game.

Yes I believe in conspiracy’s in both governmnet and the NHL.  The bias is pretty obvious.  Thanks Little Gary for making me stress the next couple of days.
But, like you Chief, I do not give a dam about the rest of the NHL.  Only the Red Wings.  I could care less in the NHL ever succeeds in places like Baton Rouge, Chattanooga, Plano, Oceanside, or Little Rock.  I liked the size of the NHL just fine growing up in the 60’s and 70’s.

I guess this means I get to see the Douche Canoe Saturday.

I hate Mitch the Whiny Bitch as much as the next Wings fan, but he’s right about the new life given to the Stars on that call.

Dallas was owning Detroit to that point and had absolutely nothing to show for it (thanks, Oz).  That in and of itself was frustrating to them.  No one can say for sure, of course, but working that hard only to find themselves down a goal would’ve been a huge morale buster.  And from previous games we’ve seen how the Stars (particularly Marty Mind-Screwed) have, for the most part, turned to mush when that happens.

Heres an excellent blurb about the “Homer Incident”; from Greg Wyshynski at Yahoo Sports:

Goaltender interference calls in the 2008 Stanley Cup Playoffs have gone from sublime to ridiculous to absolute embarrassing. Tonight’s interference call against Holmstrom was, as Mike Babcock said, one based on reputation more than reality. And one in which the justification was that, in Babcock’s words, Holmstrom’s “butt was in the blue.” It’s a shame that a great Dallas effort will be overshadowed by discussion about Homer’s rump for the next two days.

Does NHL want Sunday hockey on NBC, too ? We’ll figure out tonight.
And what if the game Saturday goes to couple of OT’s. The same NBC will dump the game back to VERSUS, like last year.

It’s a shame that a great Dallas effort will be overshadowed by discussion about Homer’s rump for the next two days.

Stars fans are real sensitive about that “no goal” thing in reference to Hull in 1999.  They feel it taints their Cup, which is debatable.  Interesting that should they come back and make a series out of this (a win Saturday would do that) or achieve the near-impossible (they won’t), they’d still, with the opposite connotation, have to listen to “no goal” being whispered in their ears.

I don’t care if the call is reviewable or not, I’m ok leaving penalties exclusively in the judgemnent of the officials. What I want is a more clearly defined rule.

Maybe make the blue completely off limits to attacking players(with the usual judgement about pushes). But make the goalie fair game to be bumped and checked anywhere outside the paint just like the other players on the ice.

So maybe that’t not a perfect solution either, but something needs to be done to remove some of the guess work and assumptions. Vague rules are just asking for controversy and pissed off fans.

Game 5 will also be on CBC, so there’s some relief from the asshats on NBC.

I had to watch this game on TIVO last night and missed out on all the LB discussion...can only imagine the furor this generated amongst the 19. 

We got f’d.  No way around it.  And I’m pissed, but it’s rather grounding to think that in two days we’ll be back at the Joe...where the Stars should seriously contemplate swapping Martia out for a shooter-tutor...with a 3-1 lead and another two days to let the Mule rest his Monique-scale plus sized noggin. 

The Wings played like shit last night.  Too much time in our own zone, sloppy movement up ice and specific guys like Mac made dumb plays ...the kind that a team like the Pens will capitalize on when (WHEN) we get to the next round. 

My hope for game five: A monstrous 08 playoffs coming out party by Cleary.  Buckets is D.U.E.  He was a FORCE last year.  Underwhelming this year.  He damn near got one in that last game.  Imagine an awakened Cleary, a recharged Mule and a pissed off Homer in the finals.  Dios mio.

Time to fire it back up, boys and girls.  It’s the playoffs.  9 wins in 10 games...we’ve been spoiled rotten.

Jeff - I was wondering about that too, if it was goalie interference why was there no penalty called?  I don’t know, these officials sure have me scratching my head a lot this playoffs.  Does anyone think it was a makeup for Game 1 when that goal should have been waived off?

Maybe make the blue completely off limits to attacking players(with the usual judgement about pushes). But make the goalie fair game to be bumped and checked anywhere outside the paint just like the other players on the ice.

you mean how it used to be before Little Gary took over?

yep, it was awesome.  goalies stayed in the crease where they belong, and players stayed out of it.

heh.  I was looking for a video on YouTube of goalies getting run behind the net back in the 80s, and instead found this…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J4BXrskeU0

if it was goalie interference why was there no penalty called?

this isn’t that uncommon.  there’s a gray area between “enough for a penalty” and “too much for a goal to count.”

I missed most of the game as I was at a baseball game (free tickets are fun!) freezing my appendages off last night, but a couple of the screens were showing the game (muted) as everyone was wandering by.

I am very happy that I had the foresight to check my audiospace for small children, as the last thing a child needed to hear was my thoughts on the NHL officials, Gary and NBC, or Ott.

I’m afaid I wasn’t very nice - the middle-aged man standing next to me laughed his behind off, though. 

*afraid* (of course)

At some point the collective powers of the NHL are going to realize that indefinite years with Bettman still in the commissioner’s chair will eventually completely destroy the league.  When that realization happens, he will be thrown to the street like a drunk from a bar.  If he were CEO of a corporation the size of the NHL, it would have gone bankrupt years ago.  Let’s hope that day is sooner rather than later.

you mean how it used to be before Little Gary took over?

Could you check the goalie outside of the crease back then? My memory is failing me.

That was the Beginning…

That was not the End…

http://hockeytowntodd.blogspot.com/2008/05/bad-calls-non-calls-and-unreviewable.html

First off, Lil’ Gary had better hope someone, namely Detroit, takes care of business in regulation on Saturday.  Yes, the game starts at 1:30 but their Preakness Stakes coverage is set to begin at 4:30.  Lil’ Gary could have more problems on his hands should the game dip into more than one OT.

Secondly, Gary won’t get tossed out as commissioner anytime soon - not as long as the owners are all making money (somehow).  They owe it all to Lil’ Gary the Napoleon of Hockey.

Could you check the goalie outside of the crease back then? My memory is failing me.

hell yes.  they used to get crushed behind the net if they wandered back there at the wrong time.  maybe the rule was behind the goal line but not in front of it, not sure.

Here’s a viewing nightmare for NBC…

Game five goes into multiple overtimes.

Preakness features another unfortunate equine death.

Malik says that Ken Holland and Lil’ Gary will be talking to each other on The NHL Hour from 4-5 pm.  I’m not going to be around.  Anyone taking notes?

hell yes.  they used to get crushed behind the net if they wandered back there at the wrong time.  maybe the rule was behind the goal line but not in front of it, not sure.

My mom agrees with you.

“If they are real hockey players, then they should be able to take a check like a man.  Otherwise stay in the damn crease where you belong!”

(Needless to say Hasek drives her batty.)

cis429,

Couldn’t agree more. I wonder how many teams/team come out in the black each year.  And then turn around and hand out to the lessers.  But the collective powers won’t make any changes any time soon, more’s the pity.  If the strike didn’t teach them anything, and it didn’t, there’s no hope.  You wouldn’t try to take a national surfing league to omaha nebraska and expect it to flourish, would you? Seriously, would you? Oh…

meh, we got screwed on that call, but we got the call in game 1 and a couple breaks in the nashille series...yes it p!sses me off but 1 play shouldn’t decide the fate of a game (unless in OT) the wings came out soft and slow last night, the first period was an atrocity to watch as a redwings fan. Got to give Dallas credit though they played harder and faster then us they fought harder for the loose pucks, kept us to the outside for the most part and generally just plaed the game we should have last night. Can’t wait for saturday watch the wings finish them off on home ice.

DAL squad sporting a 7 on 5 most of the night

Because I’m such a one-sided fan I often wonder if I’m seeing “correctly,” but long before the disallowed goal I thought the same thing.

And what else can be said about a butt-in-the-crease call but “f**king joke.” We’re all supposed to believe that the Sutherland has such vision, such keen depth perception that he’s able to discern how far someone’s butt cheeks protrude while he’s standing half a rink away???  What a way for the league to look amateurish.

There was no ass in the crease.  There was, however, an Ass in the stands.

But time to make that history—because it is history.  Time for the Wings to focus whatever anger they harbor about the call, to focus whatever disappointment they may harbor about the rest of their game, to focus it all into determination and execution. Time to go out and put this series away.  They’re more than a good enough team to do that despite the officiating.

HTT, my thoughts exactly, and it’s one of the reasons the Pens scare me.  But Little Gary’s not a stupid man, he’s not going to just hand Crosby the Cup before the first puck drops...but I won’t be surprised at all to see the refs tilt the ice a bit for them.

Screw pro wrestling, the NHL is starting to resemble the NBA, where you get called for a foul just for sharing the same air space as someone like The Great LeBron (friggin pussy).  Didn’t Little Gary do his apprenticeship under Little David Stern?

I just keep telling myself...Game 5 is at the Joe, and the Stars’ goalie is Marty Turco.

“You might as well be watching wrestling.”

Indeed.

Wings forecheck was soft last nite.  Crappy ice prevents the forwards from going deep.  Wings hit total was down ... Rafalski’s gonna need a new set of hips in June.  Stars played like they were possessed. Fear will do that to you.  Come to teh Joe and let’s skate.

Conspiracy? Just a facts, mam…
The league clearly sent word down from on high that there will not be two sweeps in the conference finals.  You don’t need an MBA to know the revenue loss would be a blow to a league that’s broke and looking for $$.  Hockey would be over in May! The referees are just tools in the business called NHL.  The CEO remains Bettman.

Thanks Gary. Ass.

There was no ass in the crease.  There was, however, an Ass in the stands.

instant classic.

The referees are just tools in the business called NHL.

The referees are just tools, PERIOD!

Here’s Rule 78 (Protection Of Goalkeeper) Give it a read. It’s pretty interesting.

Note the potentially pertinent sections:

a. If an attacking player initiates contact with a goalkeeper, incidental or otherwise, while the goalkeeper is in his goal crease, and a goal is scored, the goal will be disallowed.

No contact, so no interference.

g. If an attacking player establishes a significant position within the goal crease, so as to obstruct the goalkeeper’s vision and impair his ability to defend his goal, and a goal is scored, the goal will be disallowed.

(NOTE) For this purpose, a player “establishes a significant position within the crease” when, in the Referee’s judgment, his body, or a substantial portion thereof, is within the goal crease for more than an instantaneous period of time.

Homer was outside of the crease, so this doesn’t apply either.

h. Subject to (i) below, if an attacking player enters the goal crease and, by his actions, impairs the goalkeeper’s ability to defend his goal, and a goal is scored, the goal will be disallowed.

Again, he was never in the crease. So this should have been a goal. You bastages.

This part of the rule doesn’t apply to the goal in question, but I found it pretty durn interesting nonetheless:

d. If (i) a goalkeeper initiates contact with an offensive player who is in the goal crease; and (ii) such contact is (a) initiated by the goalkeeper in order to establish position in his goal crease; and (b) results in an impairment of the goalkeeper’s ability to defend his goal, and a goal is scored, the goal will be disallowed.
e. If, after any contact by a goalkeeper who is attempting to establish position in his goal crease, the attacking player does not immediately vacate his current position in the goal crease (i.e. give ground to the goalkeeper), and a goal is scored, the goal will be disallowed. In all such cases, whether or not a goal is scored, the offensive player will receive a minor penalty for goalkeeper interference.

(NOTE 2) If, while attempting to establish position within his goal crease, a goalkeeper commits an act that is worthy of a penalty (i.e. cross-checking, slashing, etc.), then the appropriate penalty shall be assessed by the Referee.

So, basically if you try to push a guy out of the way, he is technically required to move. But if you pull a Turco and slash him repeatedly about the shins, or punch him in the back of the ehad, that’s a penalty.

JHC, why are there even discussions coming from coaches, officials and fans about having body parts in the crease?  There is no rule against that. 

Did Holmstom’s presence interfere with Turco’s ability to see and play the puck?  Goddamn right it did.  That’s the friggin’ idea.  There were no body parts in the crease, above the crease, under the crease or beside the crease when Datsyuk took the shot.  And there was no physical contact between Homer and Turco at any time prior to the shot.  Period. 

It was a blown call.

Did it cause the Wings to lose the game?  No.  They played like shit both before and after.  But getting a one-zip lead after having your asses handed to you for half the game can be an energizing event.  And getting a one-zip lead taken away from you is deflating.  So, Detroit took it in the ass two ways on Sutherland’s one screw-up.

No, make that three ways.  The Stars went from complete dejection to utter relief on the call and it energized them even more. 

F*ck it.  I’m done talking about it.

didn’t this same thing happen last year vs the ducks?  I forget if it was the playoffs or just the beginning of this season… Exact same scenerio.  just a different time and shooter.

Note to Gary:

F*CK YOU!!!

and your little booster chair. Ass!

Alanah has posted this on the main page:

Detroit Red Wings GM Ken Holland will be the guest on the NHL Hour today, hosted by NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman. The show is on from 4-5 p.m. ET today.

She also noted:

* While on the air, listeners can call into the show at 1-877-645-6696, or send questions/comments via this email address:

Perhaps the “A 2 Y” crew can help the Organ-I-Zation some and call in with questions, perhaps: 

What exactly is the standard in enforcing the goalie crease rule??

Did you see the replay of the waved-off goal; that was a blown call wasn’t it?

Why do the Rules allow for an attacking player, outside of the crease to get repeatedly cross-checked?

Don’t the rules allow for an attacking player to screen the goalie so long as he is not in the crease?

Inquiring minds surely want to know.

Now, we may have to fool the screener, and think of some B.S. line to get past him/her, use your imagination!!!

My work load is light today, I may give it a go.

It’s the playoffs.  9 wins in 10 games...we’ve been spoiled rotten.

Agreed disch.

In all such cases, whether or not a goal is scored, the offensive player will receive a minor penalty for goalkeeper interference.

This was not enforced, hence the contradiction. I actually wish he did call Homer on a penalty. The blown call would be magnified that much more and we could almost positive that Sutherland wouldn’t ref the SCFs.

Did Holmstom’s presence interfere with Turco’s ability to see and play the puck?

which as we all know is perfectly legal.  just ask Avery…

Now, we may have to fool the screener, and think of some B.S. line to get past him/her, use your imagination!!!

At least with Wings fans all over the country they couldn’t block by area code. 

Let it know how it goes - I’m swamped like the Okefenokee today.  And all your suggestions are better than the questions i was muttering darkly at the television last night during the game.

Let *us* know how it goes…

The music selection at the Joe needs to be amended to include that rap song by Sir Mixalot “I Like Big Butts.....”. 

They can play it before face-offs when Homer is stationed in front of the net.  The message will excite the squirrels in Turdco’s head.

d. If (i) a goalkeeper initiates contact with an offensive player who is in the goal crease; and (ii) such contact is (a) initiated by the goalkeeper in order to establish position in his goal crease; and (b) results in an impairment of the goalkeeper’s ability to defend his goal, and a goal is scored, the goal will be disallowed.

e. If, after any contact by a goalkeeper who is attempting to establish position in his goal crease, the attacking player does not immediately vacate his current position in the goal crease (i.e. give ground to the goalkeeper), and a goal is scored, the goal will be disallowed. In all such cases, whether or not a goal is scored, the offensive player will receive a minor penalty for goalkeeper interference.

I’m no longer stipulating that Homer’s goal in Game One should have been interference.  Not after reading the above.

I looked at that play a number of times from the overhead.  Homer started backing into the crease as Lidstrom wound up for his shot.  Turco backed up as well, matching Homer’s movement.  While close, there was no physical contact between the two.

If Turco wanted to claim interference on that, he should’ve stood his ground and let Homer bump into him.  He didn’t do that.  That’s why it was ruled a good goal.

A bit of a random question.  On Bubba’s first goal, that guys entire f***ing body was in the crease when the puck bounced off of him.  Is the argument that it wasn’t interference because he was on the other side of Ozzie and Homer was in front of Turco?

yep.  the other guy’s goal was similar to Homer’s that wasn’t called back - he was in the crease but did not interfere with the goalie.  (although I saw the Stars’ stick last night firmly wedged against Osgood’s right pad, preventing him from moving to his right)

I need the help of someone at A2Y to photoshop a picture of Little Gary.  Put a small mustache on his upper lip and in uniform and I think you get the REAL look of our NHL Commish.

Better idea - what was the name of that thing from the Lord of the Rings movies?  The creature that was always talking to its master?

It makes me think of Gary making damn sure that NBC has at least one game on the weekend.

Rae:

You can be in the crease when scoring a goal as long as your presence didn’t prevent the goaltender from making the save.  This is what I’m talking about in reference to the two Holmstrom situations that have come up in this series. 

Last night, Homer was the goal screener.  You can’t be in crease screening as a goal is scored by someone else.  And he wasn’t.

In Game One, he was the goal scorer.  As I said, had Turco stood his ground there, forcing contact with Homer as he moved backwards into the crease, it would’ve been interference.  That’s not what Turco did.  By backing up, he ceded that space to the goal scorer.  He did not establish presence. 

At least that’s my interpretation of the rule and it’s the only one that matters, bitches.

Oh, and you can also be in the crease when someone else scores as long as it’s a momentary thing and not a “significant presence.” I presume that’s the Brett Hull thing in effect.

didn’t this same thing happen last year vs the ducks?  I forget if it was the playoffs or just the beginning of this season… Exact same scenerio.  just a different time and shooter.

Yes it did happen and it was this season against Anaheim.

The official that called Holmstrom for interfering with Giguere?

Kelly Sutherland.

Given the way the rule is currently written (it’s changed at least a few times since Brett Hull won the Cup with his foot in the crease—illegal at the time—in 1999), why do they even have a crease any more?

Seriously?

...Maybe they’re waiting ‘til they get those spiffy new, curved goals instituted.

Well according to a sportsnet reporter, the NHL is ok with the call. I’m not sure why or how they are ok with the call, unless they are dealing with it privately. Thanks Gary. Ass. The Turco quote about him not being able to make the save was pretty funny, particularly when you take into account that he was screened and didn’t even see the shot. But really what else do you expect him to say.

When you combine this call with the non-call in game one and the call earlier with Pittsburg and the replay judge at the world championship, you have to wonder what refs are seeing. I understand that refs are trying their best but you would think that the judgement of the refs at this level would be a bit better.

My comment from Alanah’s “NHL Hour” post ‘splains it all…

I hope they have an in-depth discussion of Mr. Bettman’s “flex officiating” system. Refs can call—or not call—whatever they want, whenever they want to, regardless of whether it actually happened or not! The only catch is there’s a strict limit of seven penalties per team per game. So, if for example, “Team Texas” were to commit 60 penalty-worthy infractions in a given game (that’s one per minute for the sake of a nice, round number to work with), they could receive an absolute maximum of seven actual penalties (although pushing the upper limit is somewhat frowned upon). Conversely, if—oh, I don’t know—“Team Michigan” commits three penalty-worthy infractions in the same game, they would be assessed somewhere in the range of four to six penalties. So, you see, it all pretty much evens out in the end!

It’s really an amazing innovation, light years ahead of all those other silly sports with their crazy, “carved-in-stone” rules. And, best of all, it works perfectly in tandem with Colin Campbell’s Wheel o’ Justice.

Then, if there’s any time left, maybe “Kenny” and “Gare” can broach the question of exactly how much revenue a Saturday afternoon game on NBC really generates.

(end of rant)

Posted by YzermanZetterberg on 05/15 at 03:33 PM

Yes it did happen and it was this season against Anaheim.

The official that called Holmstrom for interfering with Giguere?

Kelly Sutherland.

This doesn’t raise a flag?  I mean, one can say, okay, I will say it… That Kelly (girls name) Sutherland is a prejudice prick!  I remember his excuse back with the quacks was, “Well he was going to interfere with the goalie!”

and last night it is, “well, his but was going to be in Turco’s face!”

WTF, eh?  At least McGeough(sp) never hid the fact that he hates Detroit.

This girlie named dude… he needs to go

Commissioner Bettman:

If you are going to beat the drum that hockey fans are the best and most tech-savvy fans in sports, then kindly do us the courtesy of allowing that we have enough intelligence to spot when the officials have been requested to ensure that the corporate media masters have at least one* weekend game for their troubles?  You aren’t fooling anyone.

Sincerely, the community of hockey fans

(* pending the results of tonight’s game in PA.  Let’s see if they want a Sunday game, too!)

I have a dream. In my dream, the Wings win the Cup on home ice. Instead of the boos the Rodent usually experiences when he braves Detroit, he’s pelted with dozens of octopi when he walks the carpet for the presentation.

Stupid NHL.com’s link to the show isn’t working! I don’t want to read either the whole transcript or selected segments later, damnit.

Either way: Look. We’re all bloody angry at the game and refereeing last night. Great. We’re loosing track of some people (especially Mac) making crucial mistakes and other (Cleary and Hudler included) who almost but didn’t score.

I can also recall *at least* four instances when the puck clearly got caught in a puddle. (I only encountered puddles if the Zamboni just refreshed the ice; makes you look like a retard during practice). Our transition game was impaired and a few odd man rushes ended before they began because of either bad luck (broken sticks) or bad ice.

Finally, and I’m merely following the ever classy Nick Lidstrom here. Dallas really *did* win that game; we didn’t *just* lose it. Remember those gripes about MSM fellating Dallas while ignoring our play. yea. We’re kind of doing the same thing.

The Wings didn’t get out of their zone in the opening minutes because they met with desperately rabid dogs. Good for them. They beat us. Fine. Forget. Fix. F&*! them up next time.

I realize we’re also using Homer’s goal as part of a larger indictment against NHL officiating and the quality of the game, but let’s now conflate the two so quickly. We are a better team and will win.

WAhhh!

Bettman just said “Turco had trouble moving his stick.”

How that happened while Homer wasn’t in the crease and wasn’t close, I’m not sure.

I talked to the Comm!!!!

In my, admittedly poorly posed question, I told him they do in fact review for goals with high stick and goals which were kicked in, so why not interference;

He says they only review for pucks crossing the goal line.  Complete B.S.

Oh, and after I asked the question, they cut me off, so no rebuttal.

I do note the caller before me also asked L’il Gary about “The Homer” call; and Little Gary gave Holland an opportunity to vent about the call at the end of the segment.

Thanks, Gary.  Your still an Ass!

Thanks, Gary.  Your still an Ass!

And he always will be

@ Osrt:

Point taken (probably by everyone here), but everybody needs to vent once in a while.  It takes longer on the internet because as people see comments they respond to them, instead of a few minutes in person with someone in the same room.  I think that’s why it seems to be going on longer than it warrants.

I’m most annoyed at the fact that the potential last game of the series is on Saturday afternoon.  No matter how big a hockey fan I am, there is no way I’m going to be indoors watching television if the weather is at all nice - it happens too rarely in Michigan.  If they wrapped it up on Wednesday, it would have been more convenient for me. 

Regardless, at least the ice will be better.  You can’t play decent hockey on a Slurpee!

Jeff, you didn’t expect Mein Fuehrer… er Little Gary to admit the ref blew the call did you?  I’m pissed, but after all the bilge being spewed here and elsewhere, It’s time to move on.  Game 5 Saturday, national audience, SKATE TO THE THROAT!  Because that’s how we roll motherf*&kers;.

And kudos to Dallas for actually attempting to make a series of it.  Maybe if they’d played like this a couple games ago, we wouldn’t be griping about the phenomenon of “even-up officiating” and both teams would have given their fans a more entertaining series.

I am not one to complain about the zebras but last night was a joke. A bad joke at the Wings expense. Yes Dallas did play probably the best game they ever have but, they were given everything. This is not the first time. I’m sure it won’t be the last time. The difference being that at the Joe we have better ice, the home crowd, and the ability to clinch in front of the fans.

Now I can only hope that McCreary will be a part of the officials that call the game. He has been, in the playoffs, one of the zebras that has called a game fairly. Or as fairly as the Wings will get. 

Anyway, forward and onward. Yesterday is over.  Saturday is going to be another story.

Fu*k Dallas!

“BRING IT ON!”

Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!

Bettman just said “Turco had trouble moving his stick.”

Let me get this straight: Holmstrom isn’t in the crease, doesn’t make contact with Turco, Turco “had trouble moving his stick” without another person touching him or his equipment. And somehow that equates to goaltender interference. Marty’s “inability” to properly navigate his stick means that someone else had to be at fault? What a bunch of BS.

Whatever. What I want in game 5 AKA game 4 part deux: A devastating hit by Kronwall, a goal from Datsyuk (at least one to make up for his lost point), a dominant game from Zetterberg, a goal from Flip--just because, and an entire team effort to smack down the Stars like a pimp on his misbehaving ho. Domination, pure and simple. Apply skate to throat and push down hard. No mercy.

****OFF-TOPIC WARNING****

Proof that being a sports fan is indeed akin to insanity:

For some people the sense that events are both structured and connected is quite distorted.  In 1958, the German psychiatrist Klaus Conrad coined the term apophenia for an “unmotivated seeing of connections” accompanied by a “specific experience of an abnormal meaningfulness.”

(Such as a team scoring a goal only when you walk out of the room, and getting scored upon only when you are watching.)

Apophenia is a well-recognized symptom of schizophrenia.  When people with schizophrenia experience florid hallucinations, they have a tendency to interpret random events as not only meaningfully connected but often related to themselves, a tendency that forms the basis for paranoid delusions.

(from Your Brain on Cubs: Inside the Heads of Players and Fans, edited by Dan Gordon)

Baroque - oh my, where is the nearest psych ward?  I better go check myself in!

Hockeychic:

I know - that made me laugh, so I figured it was worth sharing.

I haven’t finished the book yet - just published last month - but it takes a look at sports fandom from the standpoint of neuroscience and using the science of the brain to justify the madness.  So far, it’s excellent - for a science geek like myself, anyway.

if “he had trouble moving his stick” is valid for disallowing a goal, then the crease should be triple the size.  watch the top-down replay, Turco basically whacked his stick into the back of Holmstrom’s leg.  had Holmstrom not been standing there, it wasn’t going to be a stick save anyway...it was top corner over his right shoulder.

Vote on the Douche Canoe on KK. this link, or somewhere close.

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/media/comments/hockey_media_approval_ratings_pierre_mcguire/

Surprise, running 2:1 that he’s a Douche.

The other unspoken side of the get-Holmstrum mindset is the merciless slashing and cross-checking he receives every night. How many penalties does Holmstrum draw from receiving all that stick abuse?  Probably none, he’s a free target.  Cross check him at any time without fear of a whistle, jab him in the back of the head, slash him in the calves freely, no call will be coming.  Yet if he’s within 6 inches of the crease with no contact with the goalie that’s close enough to penalize him and the team.  The NHL has been bent on the Drunk Chipmunk all season.  It is disgusting the way this is slanted.

Agreed B; I was frustrated with everyone’s frustration (including mine).

In Babbles I trust!

BTW: half watching the Pens-Flyers game. It’s 3-0 Flyers at the end of the second. Have at it conspiracy theorists....there have been many many penalties.

Can someone please tell me what rule states that the offensive player can NOT be in the crease?

I thought that got overturned.

Perhaps I’m misunderstanding something.

Wow....Philly won too...and it was like a bar brawl at the end. YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tire Crosby, Hossa, and Malkin out for us Philly.

By the way...if anyone watched the game or is still reading this thread, I was impressed to see what Upshall did with 14 seconds left. Anyone else catch it?

He got called for charging, and rightly so, and while the rest of both teams brawled behind him, he bent down intent on making sure the Penguin he sent to OZ was ok. Sign of weakness or sportsmanship, I have gained a new respect for Scott Upshall. That was pretty cool. I’ll bet his coach will give him hell for it tho.

Go Wings....

Good to hear Scott!

I’m not sure his coach will give him hell but I know Cherry will!

NBC now has Saturday and Sunday games. Huh. I would never have guessed that such convenient events would transpire. What a friendly place this universe is.

You know what OSRT...it pleases me that NBC will have Sat and Sun games. What is better than a weekend full of beer, hockey, and the DC.

If only Barry Melrose would stop in for a couple impromptu commentaries....THAT would make my weekend perfect…

But wait....perhaps better yet would be Barry and Cherry doing a little puppet show during intermissions.

“The Mullet and the Mouth” with their cute little sock puppets DC and Little Gary…
Oh how I wish I had photoshop skills. The image of Melrose with his hand up Gary’s puppet skirt seems so perfect!

Is there a puppet show/entertainment stage on the train?

Scott, I saw that with Upshall and was also impressed. Watched on CBC and was a bit surprised the announcers didn’t point that out too.

Pretty solid game for the most part. Yeah, there were a lot of penalties, but that was after Philly was up 2-0, and most of those penalties were stupid aggression penalties. There really weren’t any weak calls in that one. Quite the opposite really.

Flyers nearly blew it in the 3rd and played very sloppy shut down after a fantastic first 2 periods.

Of course, I expect Pens to close it out on Sunday.

Can someone please tell me what rule states that the offensive player can NOT be in the crease?

scroll through this blog post.  a few of us have posted the rules and discussed them.  you are correct, in general, that in the crease (or not) isn’t much of a determining factor in anything any more.

Flyers win!  Who knew?!!  Wow, where’s my Harvard MBA?!!!

NHL...hey, it’s just business.

Little Bettman’s sipping cognac tonite in a hot tub....he’s got a Saturday AND Sunday game.  Just a little profit center.  Integrity be damned...what a prick.

Might as well watch wrestling...said someones wife.

Thank Gary. ASS!

Been a little bit late to the group therapy.  Sorry, I was listening to some Townes Van Zandt in honor of Dallas.  “Won’t you lend your lungs to me, mine are collapsing...”

If the rule on interference and when it can be reviewed by video is unclear and is causing conflict (and it cleary is, from commentators on down), there really is no reason that it can’t be changed immediately.  Even in these playoffs, there’s precedent.  The Sean Avery rule was rushed through after his antics in Round 1.  But then, the Devils were losing, and with the League’s new favorite word being ‘parity,’ it’s unlikely they’ll put through a rule that will benefit winning teams.

I’m not going to push any conspiracy theories, but the Pens still scare me.  The NHL is a business, and they want to promote themselves.  What better way than to have Sidney Christ and his ragtag bunch, the youngest team in the League, defeat Goliath, the best team in the league with three recent Cups to its credit?  They won’t have much of an opportunity again-- as many of their outstanding picks-- Malkin, Whitney, Fleury-- approach UFA status, they’ll leave.  But to have all these present and future stars on one team?  You can take that all the way to the bank.

I’m not suggesting that games will be completely stolen.  But I expect an SCF series against Pittsburgh will play out a lot like the Dallas series; they will get away with a lot more than we will.  As I understand it (though I haven’t watched the games) Fleury has been getting away with whacking players in the groin, shoving, interfering, and so on.  We need to be prepared for that stuff not to be called.  So the games can’t be close.  Take few penalties (especially with the first PP unit they have), come out flying, score early and often.  Take the wind out of their sails before the refs have a chance to help them out.

Looks like NBC gets their Sunday game too.

“Hush now, don’t you believe it,
Cover your head and close your eyes now,
Take it or leave it,
Go back to bed now and don’t you cry...”

Also to say that if we’re to storm out in the Finals, we need Playoff Franzen back-- with his scoring abilities of course, but also for his defensive play, which has been a great (both in the quantitative and qualitative sense of the term) part of his game for a while now.  Without him, it’ll be full steam ahead on the Stress Train, and The Hasek will need the post-Nashville cleaning crew again.  Thankfully they seem to be making sure that he’ll be back and in good shape for the next round.

“If they are real hockey players, then they should be able to take a check like a man.  Otherwise stay in the damn crease where you belong!”

Baroque, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, and I’ll still sound creepy: your mother rocks.  Like mother, like daughter.

Funny, last night I told my Bitter half that when he turned on the Flyers game, there would be a couple of Penguins in the box and the Flyers would be winning by 2. Sure enough half way through the 1st the Flyers were leading, with 2 Penguins in the sin bin. Since I live in the Philly area I was willing to take bets that the Flyers would win last night. You know the league is not going to lose all the viewers on the East Coast for a Sunday game. Not with the Pens and Flyers in a series. I belie