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The Roster Conundrum
by IwoCPO on 09/10/07 at 02:46 PM ET
Comments (22)
Updated 1807 EST: Pete over at Yzerman is God has just posted a very nice take on the Sopel scenario. Check it out here.
He has offensive potential? At least Kronwall and Lebda are young for all we hear that phrase. And he doesn’t look like a defensive stud either. You replace him with Lilja and what do you get? No better on defense, less physicality, oh yeah, and the almighty slapper. Let’s talk about that.
Some real sound analysis of the Wing PP strategy follows that quote. Good stuff Pete.
------
Two days until the Wings descend on sleepy TC and the intrigue is starting to build. Two names have great potential to throw the whole damn thing into a tailspin the likes we haven’t seen since the Edmund Fitzgerald braved the Superior one fateful night in, umm, some year in the 60’s I think.
Sopel and Grigorenko. Add them to the mix and the main hatchway’s giving in brother because we’re going to have a full load of forwards and a bursting blue line.
Let’s start with Sopel. Last Friday Bruce McLeod posted a little diddy that has gone, not surprisingly, largely unnoticed by his deep digging brothers and sisters.
General manager Ken Holland said Friday that there will be a couple of veteran defensemen coming to the Red Wings’ main training in Traverse City next week. Holland said that he has tentative agreements, but declined to name with whom until the players’ involvement is secured.
One source in the organization said that Brent Sopel is one of the blue-liners who will come to camp as a free agent.
Five days have passed with no confirmation on that. Yeah, most of the blogosphere has picked it up but I’ve seen nothing official from the organ-I-zation. Still, let’s go ahead and mark that one down as an invite.
Now, does anyone doubt Brent Sopel is a better defenseman than, say, Andres Lilja? Would he have more impact this year than, umm, Derek Meech? Offensively, couldn’t he bring more to the table than even Nik Kronwall? Yes, yes and probably.
But if he shows on Wednesday, I’m betting he does so with a virtual guarantee from our boy Kenny that he’ll make the squad. 30 years old, talented and most likely cheap as Darren Garcia on a slow night in Denver. But I have so many questions...why, why, why.
Why is this guy available in the first place? Is he Lidstrom, Niedermayer or even that hulking piece of traiterous garbage Pronger? No. But he’s no Danny Markov begging for work and threatening a Baltic midnite flight that will never happen because he likes him some American vices. By all indications Brent Sopel’s a guy who can move the puck and blast it. So, why’s he even available on 10 September?
And you know the biggie? Who the hell bids farewell when this guy’s wearing the Winged Wheel this October? Let’s throw him in there for a minute and guess our six blue line bubbas.
Lidstrom/Rafalski
Kronwall/Sopel
Lebda/Chelios or Lilja/Chelios or Meech/Chelios...well?
I don’t know but I’ll tell you I like the look of those top four. Almost poultry-like.
Now, part two. Grigorenko. And that one’s even murkier if Sopel latches on because we’re looking at a roster in serious excess. I’m of the opinion the kid’s already made the team. I think Nill’s done enough of his homework and is convinced the kid’s finally ready. If so…
Homer/Zetterberg/Samuelsson
Grigorenko/Datsyuk/Cleary
Franzen/Filpulla/Draper
Drake/Kopecky/Maltby
Leaving us with Hudler on the outside looking in...again. Hudler, Meech, Lebda. All trade bait. Every one of them. But trading in exchange for what? Ken Holland, if Sopel’s still got it and Grigorenko heads to Detroit, is looking at a roster that is jam packed with talent. Can’t send any of those three down without clearing waivers, which they won’t. Can’t keep ‘em up and still keep the conundrum causers. Trade one of them for cash, for picks?
Or, you keep Hudler. You keep him and let someone go. You make the tough decision and you release a guy after camp when it’s tough to find another team. You realize what you’re doing to him, but if Hudler has a camp...if Hudler has a camp that makes it impossible to cut him, then it just might be time to sever ties with a little bit of Wing history.
Grigorenko’s on the team. If Sopel shows on Wednesday, so is he.
Kirk Maltby? Now that’s another story.
Filed in: | Abel to Yzerman | Permalink
Tags: Grigorenko, Holland, Maltby, Sopel,
Comments
Expected that Pete. If there’s a solid argument to be made, that would be it. I think Drake wins a job outright because he’s more dangerous around the crease.
I don’t think Maltby even remembers where the crease is.
Posted by IwoCPO from Washington, DC on 09/10/07 at 02:08 PM ET
Interesting take. I like Maltby (nonrational emotionalism) but it’s hard to argue that his play and his value to the team hasn’t declined since the rule changes that came along with the end of the lockout. If I judge by last year’s play, I’d have to pick Drake over Maltby.
Posted by BobTheZee on 09/10/07 at 02:19 PM ET
I’d say that Maltby would be expendable financially, as well. Signed through 2010 at an average of $833k per. Why pay that much when you can grab a Drake-like UFA for $550k per and get the same production?
Of course, that assumes that Maltby and Drake (and other Drake-like players) are equals on the ice. I don’t buy into that yet but it might just be sentimentality speaking.
Posted by Clark on 09/10/07 at 02:22 PM ET
Yeah, we’ll see how Drake does, on both ends of the ice. To be honest I’m not too familiar with him, so how exactly he stacks up has yet to be seen. But Maltby allowed less goals (per minutes) working the PK than any Wings forward this past year, and that’s pretty high praise when you consider this team’s exceptional crop of defensive forwards. Maltby one dimensional? Sure. But damn good at that dimension.
Posted by Pete K from Grand Rapids, MI on 09/10/07 at 02:28 PM ET
Here’s the good news, part 1: The Wings can carry 23 guys on their active roster. Depending on the combination this usually means 13 forwards, so the team can carry Hudler safely in the press box and rotate him out as injuries/performance dictate. It also means they can carry 8 dmen if they only plan on having 2 goalies, so Meech and Sopel could both have spots.
Here’s the good news, part 2: Lebda, Meech and Hudler are all very reasonably priced, so carrying the full 23 really doesn’t do much to impact the teams cap, especially since they’re quite a bit under the number already anyway.
Do I actually think the team will carry 8 dmen? Not really. Considering the depth in the system at the position I’d guess Meech would get moved for a late pick were Sopel to be signed.
Posted by HockeyinHD on 09/10/07 at 02:45 PM ET
Why is there even the slightest debate of who to cut, either Drake or Maltby, when Samuelsson is on the roster? No offense, Chief, but I only see Sammy as a first line turd. If anybody has to get cut, I’d cut Sammy. For Defense, I’d go against the grain and chop the rest of Kronner’s nose off. This guy has way too far to go, to catch up to his salary.
Posted by cementslinger from Midland MI on 09/10/07 at 03:30 PM ET
Maltby has 3 Cups.
End of story he stays, not to mention Babcock plays him 10 minutes a night in non offensive situations, if you want Maltby to score then the team is in trouble.
His job is stop the other team from scoring and to be a pest, not many forwards do it better.
Posted by Jim from Ontario on 09/10/07 at 03:33 PM ET
Sammuelsson doesn’t deserve all the crap he takes. If he was healthy all season he would have been a 20-goal scorer.
Posted by Pete K from Grand Rapids, MI on 09/10/07 at 03:36 PM ET
Cut Maltby, the only ones who will care are the puck bunnies from Downriver. Holland and Co have wanted Drake for the last few trade deadlines, they need his abrasiveness and grit, and as a former captain, his leadership skills. Babcock will love Drake, Maltby and Draper will have to carry on their “brokeback Mountain” love affair from a distance I hope
Posted by bababooey on 09/10/07 at 03:50 PM ET
I doubt that this team needs a lot of former-captain leadership skills. They seem to do alright in that department with the players they have right now.
I’ve heard Drake is abrasive, but is he as effective in shorthanded situations as Maltby is? Injury-prone? I don’t know him well at all.
Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 09/10/07 at 04:00 PM ET
Wings have invited Sopel, Cullimore and Downey to camp..
/o\
Posted by ar_phara on 09/10/07 at 04:14 PM ET
Baroque, the thing that makes Maltby so repetitve is the emergence of Franzen and Cleary. Both guys are abrasive and in the case of Cleary, is just as good of a penalty killer as Maltby, and a better player, tougher and younger. Drake is a hard hitting, abrasive guy who makes other teams play with their heads up.
Posted by bababooey on 09/10/07 at 04:17 PM ET
as i have stated on another red wings forum, i think that if sopel does indeed make the team, then lilja should be the one to go. people have said that he had a better playoff than the one he had against the oilers, but when it comes to him, in my opinion, “better” still isn’t good enough. he still takes way too many penalties because he won’t move his feet, he won’t throw the body like he should for his size, and he definitely won’t defend his teammates (anyone remember the turtle job he did against philly last season?). i think that if sopel is added to our roster, lilja should go and either meech, quincey or kindl, should be d-man #7.
also, i think that if we have a problem having too many forwards, i think that malts probably should be at the top of the list, with sammy maybe a close second. i know malts has done a lot for this team, and i still like him, but i think a lot of us as fans see that his skills are diminishing probably the quickest out of all of our “old” guys. it’s tough to have to let a fan favorite go, but we did what we had to do when we let mac go, and maybe we have to make a tough decision again. if it’s for the good of the offense, then i’m for it.
Posted by torango66 from Columbia, TN on 09/10/07 at 04:41 PM ET
The thing with Cleary and Franzen is that they are expected to contribute offensively too, including PP time. You get rid of Malts and the burden on them increases. And besides, I don’t think the Wings would have given him a three-year extension if they didn’t plan on keeping him.
Replace Lilja with Sopel and you decrease the quality of defense and physicality of this team. I think HockeyinHD has the right idea, I think we’ll keep 8 d-men. Given Kronner’s injury-prone nature, why not? Why move Meech or Lebda or Lilja, none of whom will get you more than a late draft pick? Why not just stash one of them on the bench?
Posted by Pete K from Grand Rapids, MI on 09/10/07 at 05:02 PM ET
I’m with Pete K on this one.
Why wouldn’t the Wings just carry 8 defensemen? They have no third goalie they have to carry like they did last year (I believe Joey MacDonald’s AHL eligibility was up). Instead, they have a defenseman they’d rather not lose (Meech) and a possible worthwhile acquisition (Sopel). Neither of them are necessarily going to be major parts of the blueline this season, but that doesn’t mean the team should let them get away.
As for the forwards, they have a highly touted prospect with an out clause in his NA contract (Grigorenko), two up-and-coming sophomores (Kopecky and Hudler), and an old warhorse (Drake). Those guys can fit in on the roster in some way, whether as a replacement or a regular.
Why dump any of those players or any of the other guys already established on the roster? It makes sense to me that they’d carry two goalies, eight defensemen and thirteen forwards.
Posted by Matt Saler from Grand Rapids, MI on 09/10/07 at 05:39 PM ET
Cut Maltby, the only ones who will care are the puck bunnies from Downriver.
You’d care when the team GAA goes up. Why do so many people appear not to realize that there is such a thing as a defensive forward, and you can’t expect every forward to just focus on scoring goals?
Posted by Paul from Miami Beach on 09/11/07 at 08:22 AM ET
Holmstrom on the first line???
Yikes. If you’re a Wings fan, anyway.
Posted by Thomas on 09/11/07 at 12:26 PM ET
Only one Avalanche player has scored more goals than Holmstrom over the last two seasons. Seems to me he’d fit on your first line just fine, Tommy-boy.
Posted by shep from california on 09/11/07 at 01:16 PM ET
Oh please Paul, the guy’s defensive prowless is so overrated, he had the worst +/- on the team for 2 years straight now. The Wings have more than enough layers to fill that role
Posted by bababooey on 09/11/07 at 04:13 PM ET
The thins is Maltby is quite popular cause he’s been with the team for so long in a succesful role.
But his play has slipped a little since then…
I’m not really sure Drake is better though.
Anyway, they’re gonna be guys hurt this year, there is never enough depth...I’d keep everybody.
Posted by Luc on 09/11/07 at 06:23 PM ET
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Posted by gfmycapw from xceipjlk, gmgatlrw on 08/27/09 at 09:43 AM ET
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I don’t see why you get rid of Maltby and keep Drake. They’re the same player. And Drake can be sent down to GR, I believe. Or you could keep him here and let him ride the bench as the 13th forward. My guess is that he splits time with Grigorenko until Igor wins the job in full. Leaves you wondering about Matt Ellis though.
Posted by Pete K from Grand Rapids, MI on 09/10/07 at 02:03 PM ET