And a big shout-out to all those bee-u-tee-ful Wings fans bringing it strong at the RBC last night.  That was almost like a home game.

I hope a few of them keyed the doors of some Caniacs’ cars on they way out.

Heh…

Posted by O-Joe on 10/14/08 at 10:51 AM ET

Yeah, he’s been back to his agitating best this year.  He’s been getting invisible and really just a bit roleplayer-ish since the lockout.  Still decent defensively, but bringing almost nothing else to the table.  So far, that seems to have changed.  He’s hitting, chirping, roughing guys up and knocking them off their game.  It’s great to see the old Maltby back.

Don’t blame the player for playing the way the coach tells him to play.
There has been a new Head Coach since the lockout (coincidence..?)

Also...WILLIAM TELL ON THE POINT?!?  Ahem.  Brad Stuart saw PP time in San Jose and Boston, and he put up.  What makes Detroit PP time too good for him?  He’s at least as creative as Samuelsson, has a better (and more accurate) shot, and is FAR better manning the point from a defensive standpoint.

Sammy has the speed and acceleration to catch up to those breakaways from intercepted cross ice passes at the point.  Stu anticipates well, great positioning, blocks the puck at the point well, but as far as acceleration he looks like he is stuck in the mud.

Okay, so he’s not a right-handed shot like Sammy.  So?  Didn’t hurt us to have two left-handers when we had Lidstrom and Schneider on the points two years ago...and had the LEAGUE-LEADING POWER PLAY!  I really thought this shiz would end when we picked up Stu...apparently not.

LH/RH does not apply here....
How much PP time is wasted switching corners to get the Right hander on the left point for the shooting lane, and Lids to the right side.  Fans forget Bobby Orr shot left but always played the right side.

Just sayin’

Posted by HockeyTownTodd from the "NOT QUITE DEAD PIRATE" on 10/14/08 at 11:47 AM ET

Sammy has the speed and acceleration to catch up to those breakaways from intercepted cross ice passes at the point.  Stu anticipates well, great positioning, blocks the puck at the point well, but as far as acceleration he looks like he is stuck in the mud.

And the point is that he is the one most likely to get intercepted. We don’t need acceleration there, witness Larry Murphy, but a smart passer/ shooter who can actually get the damn thing on net.

Whatever. Sammy’s not horrible, but an experiment with Stuart is very worthwhile. My own choice would be Meech, but that will come in a few years. Also, why not throw Fil down low and put Z or Franzen, or another forward up top?

Hope you’re having fun in Frisco Cheif; watch out for adam’s apples, unless you’ve switched teams for the night.

Posted by Osrt on 10/14/08 at 03:35 PM ET

And the point is that he is the one most likely to get intercepted. We don’t need acceleration there, witness Larry Murphy, but a smart passer/ shooter who can actually get the damn thing on net.

I will be happy to trade you some lead bars for gold bullion.

There is no D on Detroit that reads the ice like Murphy did in his 2 years with the Wings.
Not even Lidstrom.

Also, why not throw Fil down low and put Z or Franzen, or another forward up top?

Oh my, OSRT, you are a genius…
Take your best players down low and put them on the Blue Line?

?...Something you learned from Therrien...?
Preview/Predictions (the excuse), the East

Posted by HockeyTownTodd from the "NOT QUITE DEAD PIRATE" on 10/14/08 at 04:05 PM ET

Good news on the football fantasy side of things! we good score chief with the Lions trading roy williams to the dallas Cowboys!!

Posted by hankyspanky40 from Michigan on 10/14/08 at 04:20 PM ET

Anyone watch the White House video of the Wings visit today?  If you haven’t, watch to the very, very last second...after President Bush shakes the hands of the whole team, creepy little Gary Bettman jumps to his creepy little feet to talk to Bush, who just completely ignores him.  Bush’s approval rating just went up a little bit…

Video Here

Posted by Gabriel from San Diego, CA on 10/14/08 at 04:46 PM ET

Anyone watch the White House video of the Wings visit today?

What the hell is a Stanley Cupper?

Posted by monkey from Jesus and the Dinosaurs on 10/14/08 at 05:20 PM ET

That was pretty cool, W did well. thanks for the link!

Posted by hankyspanky40 from Michigan on 10/14/08 at 06:59 PM ET

W did well?  Well, at least he can do something well.  Something important like congratulating professional athletes.  Forget the small stuff like starting never-ending wars based on false pretenses and misrepresented facts, running a country into the ground while establishing record debt, and alienating most of the rest of the world.

Good for him.  No, really.

Posted by rwhater on 10/14/08 at 07:58 PM ET

Good for him.  No, really.

Dude. You’re trying just a little too hard at this point.

Posted by Gabriel from San Diego, CA on 10/14/08 at 08:19 PM ET

watching the Atlanta- Minny game right now.  Not a bad game, some good saves by both goaltenders. There is a Guy named Sheppard on Atlanta every time I hear his name I think of ex-wing Ray Sheppard. Except this sheppard knows how to play defense.lol.

Awesome tic tac passing on the pp from the wild that reminded me of the Homer goal last night. Brunette scored it tonight.. Kovalachuk had a nice goal for altanta. Ex-Wing Schneider had the puck stole right off his stick and into the net for a Minny( gaborik) goal. nice goal from Ex-senator Todd white to pull Atlanta to a one goal deficit 3-2. Mienttnen just scored on a great setup by Brunette. End result 4-2

Time to checkout Calgary- Colorado. see what Big Bert can do tonight.

Posted by hankyspanky40 from Michigan on 10/14/08 at 09:32 PM ET

There is no D on Detroit that reads the ice like Murphy did in his 2 years with the Wings.
Not even Lidstrom.

With all due respect, including Lidstrom in this statement is ludicrous. That ignored, my point was to question the need for acceleration. A more aware reader won’t need speed and apparently you concur.

Z is indeed one of our best players down low, but partly because he doesn’t restrict himself to the low point. He circles high and center frequently. Franzen too is getting better at being a half-board player on the PP. Regardless, the larger point was that Sammy doesn’t seem to be an ideal choice for many reasons and there are several players who could be slotted there. Why not try?

Whatever. Babbles is a stubborn mofo and likes what he sees.

Posted by Osrt on 10/15/08 at 12:29 AM ET

I’ll stay on the sidelines of the dispute, but I’d much prefer to see Sammy yanked off the point. Period.

Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 10/15/08 at 08:25 AM ET

I forgot Gramps...you’re not a fan of Uncle Mike.  While you may be on to something regarding Maltby-- I mean, it’s not like Babcock’s fondness for strong defensive play over everything else, forwards included, is a secret-- you can’t really argue with results.  The banner that went up last week, to me, that’s a result.  Still, I don’t see why Malts can’t agitate like he used to and still play stout defense-- those used to be complementary parts of his game, not exclusive parts.  So unless Uncle Mike forbade him to rile up opponents (which I can’t believe), I have a hard time blaming the coach.

Samuelsson may bring speed to the point, which is an asset, but hey, Rafalski doesn’t and he seems to do perfectly fine on the top PP unit.  Stuart’s a better skater than you seem to give him credit for.  All I, and others here, are saying is that Samuelsson’s point game on the power play doesn’t seem to be working well.  As long as we’re in early-season tinkering mode, why not try someone else on the point?  What reason is there to NOT put Stuart in over Samuelsson?  He may be worse, but he may also be better, and he deserves the chance.  If the PP still doesn’t work, put Samuelsson back and chop and change other parts until we find something that does.  You’ve watched hockey long enough to know that adaptability is a big part of success...but I know you’re going to blame Babcock for being inflexible.

As for handedness, if it doesn’t apply, then you might as well have two of the same shooters on the point and swap out Samuelsson for Stuart.  You say that PP time is wasted switching position...more PP time than that is wasted when a team on the PK is able to easily clear the zone because the man on the point can’t hold the puck at the blue line.  If handedness DOES matter, again, I point back to LIdstrom and Schneider on the points when we had the League-leading powerplay...again, can’t argue with results.

And feel free to call me a heathen, but invoking Bobby Orr won’t work with me.  I’m too young to have ever seen him play.  I have watched some reels of him, and from what I can tell, his genius consisted more of knowing when to join the rush and his shot selection rather than what he did at the points-- before him, D-men were big, lumbering beasts expected to provide solid defense but not a whole lot of goals-- kind of the Doug Harvey mold.  Orr revolutionized the position by jumping in on offense and putting the puck in the net.  Feel free to correct me, though-- like I said, I’m too young to have seen either Orr or Harvey play.

Regardless, this isn’t Bobby Orr or Doug Harvey’s NHL-- this is the NHL of today, and what they did might not work here.  And in the NHL of today, this Wings second PP unit doesn’t seem to be getting it done.  Many people seem to point to Samuelsson as the weak link, and would like to see what Stuart can do in his position.  That’s all that’s being asked for.  What would be so terrible about Stuart that Samuelsson should keep the point spot ahead of him?  Just give him the chance.  What is wrong with that?

313 comments...I’ve spoiled it this time.

Posted by AndrewFromAnnArbor from Fortress Europe on 10/15/08 at 09:42 AM ET

Anyone watch the White House video of the Wings visit today?

Fast-forward to around the 12:10 mark...Bush reaches over Chelios to shake Datsyuk’s hand and Chelios has to scurry to get out of the way.  Where the hell was the secret service??

Posted by cephalopod from Chicago, on the poop deck, not over it yet on 10/15/08 at 10:59 AM ET

Stuart is a fine skater, but Samuelson has the jump.  I was not endorsing Samuelson
as much as negating the LH/RH debate as the source of the decision.  I am not a big fan of Sammy on the point, but watch Rafalski on the point and then compare him to Stuart on the point.  Stuie got plenty of time there when Sammy was out last season, and there were a lot of odd-man rushes.  Someone else on the point would be a better choice than Sammy, but the solution is not Stuart, and definitely not putting your best players from down low at the blue line.

You are right about Bobby Orr as not a great defender, but I mentioned him because he
is a legend on the point.  Backhanding the puck from the boards and teeing it up on the
slot side is one tough trick.  Master that, and you still shouldn’t be there unless you have
the acceleration for swift recovery.

Regarding Maltby, it is also coincidental that his agitation fell off the same time the
rules were changed.  Not surprised at that, and he may have had new instructions after a
couple of cheap calls.

If you don’t like the dance, don,t blame the dancers until you have taken a good look
at the choreographer.

LA picked up Quincey, he was not on the game sheet last night.  Does anyone know
if he made the White House trip?  It just seems like that would be how the Ilitch Org.
rolls.

Posted by HockeyTownTodd from the "NOT QUITE DEAD PIRATE" on 10/15/08 at 11:27 AM ET

Jiri Fishcer had great acceleration from side to side.  With his booming hard shot he would have been a great point man.  Chelios can keep the puck in along the boards almost the best in the league, as far as a hot puck.  Jason williams never learned the knack of that while playing on the right point. Plus williams could never hit the net, almost always the boards and it wasn’t a designed play.lol I don’t think Chelios is the answer by any means but it would be neat to create a pointman with different attributes of different wings. Size and speed of Fischer, seeing the game they way Lidstrom does, a combo of the knowledge of Murphy and Chelios and the heart of yzerman. NICE!!!

Bowman new what he was doing in the cup finals against Philly when he put Nick and Murphy out there everytime Lindros and his legion of doom line was on the ice.  Many thought Vladdy would defend the Lindros line but Nick and Murphy had the thought process without the physical prowness.  They totally frustrated the Lindros line.  Then every once in awhile vladdy smelled blood and got in his hits against Lindros.  no surprise he was shut down and it was Brinda’mour line that scored the few goals Philly had. Murphy didn’t have the speed but he really had the mind.

Posted by hankyspanky40 from Michigan on 10/15/08 at 12:14 PM ET

Sadly, I had forgotten about Jiri.  You are spot on.

Early last year the wings were giving up goals right after the PP and
Babs put an end to that by making sure Lidstrom and Chelios were
on the ice when the PP expires.  With Chelly out, I see he is using
Lilja the same way.  A lot of the PP point problems will be solved when
Eriksson (spelling?) makes the reg. roster.

Posted by HockeyTownTodd from the "NOT QUITE DEAD PIRATE" on 10/15/08 at 12:31 PM ET

HTT, I don’t think he made the trip to the white house.  I read somewhere that he didn’t practice with the team Tuesday morning in LA, because he had to have a physical.

Posted by hankyspanky40 from Michigan on 10/15/08 at 12:49 PM ET

Thank you,
Paul just with Quincey.

Posted by HockeyTownTodd from the "NOT QUITE DEAD PIRATE" on 10/15/08 at 12:58 PM ET

Some good hockey TONIGHT
Boston at Montreal 7:30 PM
Nashville at Dallas 8:30 PM

If I find internet feeds for these,
I will post them at HTT after the games start.

Posted by HockeyTownTodd from the "NOT QUITE DEAD PIRATE" on 10/15/08 at 01:54 PM ET

Well, okay Gramps.  I thought you were a major fan of William Tell at the point.  As long as you admit he isn’t great…

I don’t recall Stu getting much PP time even with the injuries-- if I did see it, it didn’t register (NASN doesn’t carry every Wings game, unfortunately) and so that’s why I’m championing him as a replacement.  However, if he has been one and was underwhelming, then yes, he isn’t the answer.  Too bad Pyett’s at least a couple of years away from the roster of the big club.  He’s got smarts, a decent and very accurate shot, and speed to burn.  Ericsson would be a superb fill-in (and I think we’ll probably see him on the roster after the trade deadline), but I see him more as a top-four all-rounder than a power play specialist.  For what it’s worth, I never advocated putting big forwards at the blue line-- I don’t think that’s the answer either.

Since Bobby Orr is unlikely to come out of retirement, I guess we’ll have to go with what works.  If that’s Sammy, that’s Sammy.  Hanky I think brought up the best option, and I’d forgotten about him-- unfortunately because Fisch is pretty relevant right now.  His ceaseless campaigning to get AEDs and their use to be ubiquitous might have saved Cherepanov if only Medvedev and his cronies had listened.  Anyway, Fischer...yeah.  Not a day goes by when he isn’t missed.  His power play upside, I think, was tremendous.  Not to mention everything else he brought to the table.

As for Maltby, that’s a good point about the rule changes.  I hadn’t considered them, and I suspect they have more to do with his disappearance than Babcock.  Your point about choreography is well-said-- but I don’t see Babs as the choreographer here, I see Bettman and the officials.

Dark puppeteers, they are.

Posted by AndrewFromAnnArbor from Fortress Europe on 10/15/08 at 03:23 PM ET

andrew, is that a woman in that there avatar?

Posted by rwingscup19 from Dallas on 10/15/08 at 03:38 PM ET

Yup.  Unfortunately, I couldn’t find a photo of a man, so it has to be a woman flashing her...passports.  It was either that or the logo of the Macon Whoopee.

Is that Matt Millen in yours?  With a crosshairs on him?  Gives me a warm glowing feeling to see it.

Posted by AndrewFromAnnArbor from Fortress Europe on 10/15/08 at 03:57 PM ET

I’m not sure I like this multiple pages of comments thing. I know it makes for quicker loading but finding the latest comments on these longer threads takes much longer.

Anyway, anyone taking over/under on the Chicago game?

Posted by Osrt on 10/15/08 at 11:20 PM ET

Osrt, We made this move to increase page load times and tried to make it as easy as possible to go to the latest comments by putting a page navigation for the comments at the top and bottom of each page.

As always, the KK members and readers come first and hope this will work out.

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 10/16/08 at 08:17 AM ET

I find the pagination a PITA too, especially for live game stuff.. or will most likely anyway.

Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 10/16/08 at 09:09 AM ET

Andrew...ya its Millen. I’m taking small things like Millen getting fired as the only real victory the Lions will have this year.

Also, did the passing of the Rangers’ prospect make the news in your part of the world (wherever that is now)? Whats the reaction to it?

Posted by rwingscup19 from Dallas on 10/16/08 at 10:16 AM ET

Also, I was lucky enough to attend the Stars game last night against Nashville. Thoughts:

1. Nashville did not look good. I know they put up 4 on the Stars, but they were all pretty much garbage.

2. The reason they were garbage was the Stars D really hung Turco out to dry a couple times. They will struggle if their young defensive core doesn’t step it up a little bit.

3. Sean Avery has not impressed anyone in Dallas so far, and I tend to lean towards the Avery side of life. He whiffed a couple shots last night, doesn’t seem to be in the right places. However, the line with him, Brad Richards, and Brunnstrom is flat out scary.

4. I don’t know what to make of Brunnstrom. He’s obviously good, not just everybody nets a trick in their first game, but he was the recipient of two tape to tape passes that he was able to hammer home, and the third was a little lucky. Maybe he has a knack for being in the right place at the right time, or maybe he was the beneficiary of some good plays. We’ll see....

Posted by rwingscup19 from Dallas on 10/16/08 at 10:22 AM ET

@ rwingscup19:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7669156.stm

Article on Cherepanov buried on the BBC website under ‘Other Sports’. Certainly hasn’t been covered by the msm. Lost under the economy and an England football win over Bellarus. Having said that, even on a slow news day I doubt ice hockey would make headlines here in the UK--not exactly a hotbed of hockey.

Posted by markw from Scotland on 10/16/08 at 11:37 AM ET

oh yeah, and two unmarried Brits getting convicted in Dubai for having sex on a public beach. Three months in the clink. Cause, ya know, with all that’s going on in the world that’s important.

Posted by markw from Scotland on 10/16/08 at 11:41 AM ET

Rwingscup...Amen to that, brother.  Little steps to building a champion.  Let’s hope Bill Ford takes his time and assesses each of the candidates for the vacant post right.  Someone who picks something other than a wide receiver in the first round, and fills a position that needs filling.  Little steps.

Alexei Cherepanov’s death didn’t make the news here, but that’s because hockey is a niche sport here.  I spoke to a friend in Sweden, and she says that it made the middle of their sporting news a couple of days ago, but that he hasn’t been mentioned since.  I imagine the situation’s similar in other hockey countries like the Czech Republic and Finland.  In most of these countries, there’s at least one guy playing the leagues who fits the Cherepanov mold-- young and talented and a first-round NHL pick-- so nobody tends to think of Cherepanov as anything out of the ordinary.  So his passing doesn’t get the column inches it does in North America because he’s the next Russian superstar and number one prospect for the team in the biggest media market in the world, etc.  His death will be viewed as unusual and tragic, but not as the passing of the Next Big Thing in world hockey.

Posted by AndrewFromAnnArbor from Fortress Europe on 10/16/08 at 11:44 AM ET

Mark...don’t forget that one of their convictions was for sex outside of marriage!

Posted by AndrewFromAnnArbor from Fortress Europe on 10/16/08 at 11:45 AM ET

At the risk of sounding like an old Delta bluesman, I woke up this morning and my heart was sad.  Said I woke up this mornin’ and my heart was sad…

Why?  I had a look at last night’s scores and saw that Fabian Brunnstrom scored a hat-trick in his NHL debut.  Now granted, he was playing with Brad Richards as his centerman, and I don’t discount the possibility that this may be an aberration rather than a regular occurrence, but it made me think, at the risk of sounding like an old grizzled fisherman, about the one that got away.  Oh, and I suck at fishing.

For as good as this Red Wings team is, and for as much as it promises, and for the scouts who say the Finn we’ve stashed in the minors is a better player than the Swede Dallas put on their roster last night...could it be even scarier, even better, right now?  Brunnstrom could have been ours, that could have been our hat-trick by yet another Swedish player in the Winged Wheel.

And he’s not the only one that got away.  There’s Shawn Matthias, who is playing in the AHL this year, but has shown far more promise than we ever thought was possible when we traded him for Todd Bertuzzi.  Heck, there’s Bertuzzi himself, who is scoring goals for Calgary at a pace few imagined he could since his back became a bugbear.  If it weren’t for the roster crunch, he might have been signed to our fourth line for a song after the Ducks bought out his ludicrous contract.  And then there’s Nikolai Kulemin, who scored the game-winner in the opener against the Leafs and spoiled our banner evening.  He’s been in fine form too, and was available in 2006 when we picked Cory Emmerton instead.  Nothing against Emmerton, and time may tell that he is the better player, but right now, he’s another one that got away.

There are goals coming from unlikely scorers right now.  Would they be coming from players in red and white right now if only someone had done their homework a bit better, someone had watched an extra game or two, seen something somebody else didn’t in someone?  If the right offer had been made, the right time or even the right few words spoken?

They may yet turn out to be puny lil’ pumpkinseeds rather than great northern muskies.  But what would it have taken to land the ones that got away?

Posted by AndrewFromAnnArbor from Fortress Europe on 10/16/08 at 11:46 AM ET

OK, i say it’s wings 4 Nucks 2 gwg filppula!

Posted by hankyspanky40 from Michigan on 10/16/08 at 12:21 PM ET

I can understand what you’re saying and do empathize with you AndrewSandiego but the embarrassment of riches we have right now makes it hard for me to complain too terribly much about a prospect or two getting away.  I was with you till you mentioned Kulemin as a draft pick we didn’t make.  Maybe I’m just scared of questioning players that got away while we’re still reaping the rewards of every other team’s players that got away in the drat and have more a-waitin’ (Ericsson, come on down!)

I like Brunnstrom from what little I’ve seen.  He’s a good kid, a good story, and a good player.  I wanted him in Detroit.  He would have fit in Detroit.  If you’re looking 2-3 years down the road, a playmaking wing on Zetterburg’s wing to feed both he and Mule’s voracious hunger for goals?  The idea is appealing.  Or maybe you’d be seeing him and Zetterberg playing off each other and Datsyuk dishing to Franzen on the top line.  Either way- I’m a huge fan of the Swedes on the team.  They play beautiful, skillful hockey and are a dream to watch (and they keep my wife a fan of the team even when Foppa is trying to skate in Colorado)- but it wouldn’t have worked terribly well for Brunnstrom in Detroit.

Hat trick aside (and he scored a forth goal that was disallowed because they blew a whistle for an injured player), I don’t think I’m convinced he’s a prime time player yet and I know he wouldn’t get the minutes in Detroit to be.  And we’re not a team that’s built for next year.  We’re built for this year and next year.  Sure, early indications disagree with me but I don’t think Fabian would’ve fit into this year’s plans even if the future would’ve been sublime.

The more I write on the subject, however, the more I begin to question myself.  Isn’t that funny?  I find myself thinking, “Okay, Fabian would’ve negated the Hossa and Leino signing...”

And our lines next year could have been:
Datsyuk-Zäta-Holmer
Franzen-Fil-Brunnstrom
Cleary-Draper-Happy
Kopecky-Helm-Abbadabba

And that also would’ve made me a happy camper.  Watching the Circus and Fil’s wheel’s on a second line is something I’m going to miss so very much this year.

As it is… I’m selfishly glad he ended up in Dallas.  It’s a 4.5 hour drive for me, and the next closest team would be Denver at 10-11.  I’ll get to see him play once or twice a year and will have a player my mother (huge stars fan) and I both enjoy watching when I call to talk trash about Detroit kicking their ass!

Posted by Shane from Lubbock on 10/16/08 at 01:24 PM ET