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Stompin’ Chris Pronger
by Alanah McGinley on 03/14/08 at 12:48 PM ET
Comments (41)
Update March 15th: Pronger gets 8 games. Details here.
From TSN:
With poor quality video as evidence, Anaheim Ducks captain Chris Pronger escaped punishment from the National Hockey League after apparently stomping on Vancouver centre Ryan Kesler in a game on Wednesday night.
But a clearer version of the video revealed late Thursday - with a better look at the incident - raises the question of whether or not the star defenceman should be implicated.
Cleaned up and much clearer than what was available online yesterday, here’s the video TSN is now highlighting:
I’d already conceded in both this post and on the new podcast recorded last night, that the NHL probably couldn’t have suspended Pronger based on the video evidence that we saw before. But perhaps TSN’s video should reopen that debate.
Opinions?
Update 10:23 am PT: A comment from J.J. at Canucks Hockey Blog…
Number one, the new video is definitely clearer and you see Pronger looking down on Kesler before putting his skate on his calf. Number two, intent is never an easy thing to judge, which is why I think professional sports should discipline players based on their actions. Of course no one intends to hurt another player on purpose, but, intentionally or not, they do sometimes, right? They do the crime, they do the time.
It would be nice if the NHL would at least clarify their position as to “why” they didn’t drop a suspension on Pronger, now that we’ve all seen this. Intent is not the point - it’s the action. He makes a choice to stomp Kesler, whether he intends to injure him or not. Anyone else would be suspended.
Assuming there’s a legit reason Pronger’s off the hook, I just want to understand what that might be.
Update 11:01am PT:
Per NHL Live, it’s been announced that Chris Pronger does have a hearing this afternoon before the NHL, regarding this incident. More later.
Update 1:45pm PT:
Some words from Chris Simon today in the Star Tribune:
“I don’t know what other people are thinking,” Simon said after practice Friday. “It would be nice to have things treated fairly. I don’t think in that instance it’s fair at all. I couldn’t believe the way that nothing was going to be done about it. I still can’t believe that.”
Simon got his suspension back in December when he was playing for the New York Islanders. The Pronger incident happened Wednesday.
Simon said he watched the much-seen video of that incident. He said clearly shows Pronger stomping on Kesler’s leg. “The tape is self-explanatory,” Simon said after practice Friday. “It shows what he did.”
[...]
Simon is first among active players with eight career suspensions. Pronger is second with seven.
Asked if he was frustrated by the apparent disparity, Simon said no.
“It’s more disappointing that I can get the amount of games that I get and the player never misses a shift, and other players can hurt players,” Simon said, referring to Pronger’s hit in the playoffs. “And then the same thing, if not twice, happens in the Vancouver-Anaheim game and there is not even a review. It is decided there is no suspension.”
Colin Campbell, the NHL’s senior executive vice president, did not immediately reply to an email request for comment.
Simon is not saying he didn’t deserve the suspension he got, only that he’d like to see other players treated the same way.
“The proof is there, the evidence is there,” Simon said. “Everybody sees it, but nothing gets done.”
Simon was asked if Pronger’s high-profile status might have something to do with the league’s decision. “That’s the way it seems. I think you guys can decide for yourselves. That’s all I can say.”
At the time of Simon’s comments, he may not have been aware of the pending review this afternoon.
And more on that later.
Update 2:20pm PT:
Some words from Chris Pronger this morning and found at the OC Register’s Ducks blog:
Pronger and the Ducks were under the impression that no action would be taken as initial replays did not reveal a close up look at the play.
Pronger found out the play was under review on Friday morning. He met with reporters after the club’s morning skate and said he won’t comment until the process unfolds.
“I can’t really comment on anything to do with the play because it’s under review,” Pronger said.
Pronger said he had not seen replays of the video. He said he was taken aback to find out it was being reviewed again.
“Yeah, I was a little surprised,” he said.
Coach Randy Carlyle watched the video Friday morning. Asked if it changed his opinion of the incident, he said “There are factors that go into it on both sides. I’m not here to comment on it.”
No word about any results of that review at this time.
Update 3:42pm PT:
Team 1040 in Vancouver is reporting that Pronger has now been suspended. Details to come.
Their statement is that he is “reportedly” facing a 10-game ban, but his conversation with the NHL will be later this evening so that isn’t confirmed.
Update 6:15pm PT:
A quote from NHL spokesman Frank Brown, to Canwest (via the National Post):
“If supplementary discipline is deemed warranted, it is announced before the offending player’s team plays its next game,” NHL spokesman Frank Brown said in an e-mail to Canwest News Service on Friday afternoon. “Anaheim plays its next game tomorrow (Saturday) night.”
Aside from speculation (such as the 10 games mentioned earlier, and likely sourced with Darren Dreger of TSN, as far as I can tell) there is no firm indication whatsoever what the suspension will be, only the suggestion that it is currently “indefinite.” If the information is made available Friday night, it will be added to this post.
Update 7:07pm PT:
TSN’s habit of changing the content of a story at the same link provides this update:
But a clearer version of the video revealed late Thursday - with a better look at the incident - has the NHL is looking into it again. A phone hearing is scheduled for Saturday and a suspension will likely result.
No more updates tonight then.
Filed in: nhl general, vancouver canucks | Canucks and Beyond | Permalink
Tags: anaheim+ducks, chris+pronger, ryan+kesler, vancouver+canucks,
Comments
Campbell should do the right thing and resign his post immediately. I’m not calling for it based on this latest Pronger incident, however his handling of disciplinary decisions over the past couple of seasons has been shoddy at best.
Posted by dash_pinched on 03/14/08 at 12:03 PM ET
Everybody loves to hate Pronger. It is a good thing he always has the laws of physics on his side....
Posted by w2j2 on 03/14/08 at 12:05 PM ET
I believe it could easily have been intentional. But the NHL has to be stronger than that. If I hate someone, plan to kill them, and do, it’s 1st degree murder, and Texas might very well kill me. If I’m driving down the road, and look at my stereo while turning, and run into a kid and kill the kid, I certainly didn’t mean to, but by no means do I get off scott-free. The NHL needs to enforce the rules and punish dangerous behaviour, even if it’s dangerous because of carelessness, and carelessness can sometimes be worse.
I HATE how much I feel that the Simon precedent makes it ‘impossible’ to suspend the defending Cup champs’ captain, in a market that needs to gain fans and not lose them from these kinds of incidents, and with the precedent likely keeping him out of much of the playoffs. The playoffs are a reward for hard work; if anything, suspensions should be LONGER if they run into the playoffs, but last year with Pronger’s double single suspensions in back-to-back series proved the NHL doesn’t see the playoffs as a noble thing, only as something to deliver high ratings and money. No question as to why we’re such a second-tier sport.
Posted by SENShobo from Waterloo, ON on 03/14/08 at 12:07 PM ET
First, I totally agree it was a stomp.
That being said, however, if the NHL even bothers to address the issue again, they will excuse Saquatch’s behavior by saying Kesler tried to scissor his foot and the poor beast was just doing all he could to free himself from captivity.
Followed to its logical conclusion, this decision shall allow any player who is hooked, held, or otherwise impeded to beat the living snot out of their oppressor without being penalized in any way. At least if they play for the Ducks, anyway.
In other words, business as usual.
Posted by YzermanZetterberg on 03/14/08 at 12:18 PM ET
to coin an old saying from my days at the olympia stadium, pronger, you puke!
Posted by kate from pa. on 03/14/08 at 12:33 PM ET
Alanah,
After looking at this post again, I’m pretty sure you made a (rare) error.
Forgive me if I’m mistaken, but shouldn’t the headline be “Stomp ON Chris Pronger?”
Posted by YzermanZetterberg on 03/14/08 at 01:08 PM ET
...Kesler tried to scissor his foot and the poor beast was just doing all he could to free himself from captivity.
Good one, YZ. And it highlights the actual sequence of events. Kesler did have Pinhead’s foot caught in a “scissors” move. That’s holding (or obstruction or whatever) and probably should have been called.
But, once Pinhead got his foot out of that hold, he clearly retaliates by stomping on Kesler’s leg. He appears to do it because he was frustrated. And that’s Pinhead’s M.O. He plays hard until he gets fustrated, then he loses his temper and almost immediately crosses the line. It’s what happened against the Wings last Spring.
If the league continues to allow him to do these things (with little or no punishment), he’s going to seriously hurt someone someday. Bullies like Pinhead can’t help themselves. They need others to rein them in.
We’re waiting, Mr. Campbell.
Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids on 03/14/08 at 01:14 PM ET
the phone# for the nhl office in toronto is(416)981-2777. make your displeasure with pronger known. i called last year after the hit on homer and was treated very well by colin campbells secretary. she said that they were receiving plenty of calls and wondered where i got the number. i said i couldn’t reveal my sources.
Posted by thirteen on 03/14/08 at 01:17 PM ET
...that’s Pinhead’s M.O. He plays hard until he gets fustrated, then he loses his temper and almost immediately crosses the line. It’s what happened against the Wings last Spring.
OTC—You nailed it.
Posted by YzermanZetterberg on 03/14/08 at 01:30 PM ET
This will definitely be interesting. Chris Simon received a 30 game suspension for stomping Ruutu and Pronger has a worse record of suspensions than Simon.
Let’s see if the NHL holds the line.
Posted by Ted from Innisfil, Ontario on 03/14/08 at 01:49 PM ET
If someone had my legs tied up like that, I would probably end up stepping on his calf too trying to skate away. Pronger had turned away by the time he stepped (not stomped) on Keslers leg.
Posted by Ominous on 03/14/08 at 02:57 PM ET
I dislike Pronger as much as the next non-Anaheim fan, but from that video I can’t tell if he stomped or if he was just trying to get loose. I’m actually leaning towards the latter. Pronger was off-balance and the supposed “stomp” looks more like him trying to kick get his footing.
Posted by K24 from NYC on 03/14/08 at 03:23 PM ET
I would say that is almost as bad as his height argument. It wasn’t just that he was putting his foot down, he slammed his foot down. He wasn’t loosing his balance either since he was leaning in the other direction. He’ll get off again because he has a lame excuse. I’ will get over it, I have become used to the NHL’s BS.
Posted by Sp4r7an on 03/14/08 at 03:38 PM ET
It wasn’t just that he was putting his foot down, he slammed his foot down.
Sigh. Should we look at Kesler’s leg before making subjective statements like this?
Posted by Earl Sleek from Los Angeles, CA on 03/14/08 at 04:06 PM ET
Simon went for the skate and Pronger went for the calf which is barely protected, both acted out of frustration and have seven previous suspensions. One player received 30 games and then other recieved a pass. Since when is being annoyed at having your legs tied up justification for using your skate blades against another player?
Did the NHL rush to judge Pronger innocent before reviewing the evidence? Sounds like double jeopardy to me now that the public outrage has forced the NHL to re-think its decision. Then again you have to think once in order to re-think.
Posted by Hockey1919 from Montreal on 03/14/08 at 04:08 PM ET
I can’t even begin to understand why some people think it was an accident. When I try to get away from something/someone I don’t slam my foot down at twice the speed.
But maybe he does have an excuse… his response could have been a natural reaction from back in his gopher head-stomping days in Dryden, ON and Kesler, flailing on the ice, brought out Pronger’s stomping instincts.
It’s really difficult to tell…
Posted by LOUiE from Cowtown on 03/14/08 at 04:11 PM ET
Showing Kesler’s leg will prove Pronger didn’t stomp? If you are talking about bruising, I don’t see how that will show anything. I’m not a doctor but I think there could be bruising regardless if Pronger stomped or not a 200+ man putting a lot of that weight within the small area of a skate blade would do some sort of damage I imagine. And as for my statement being subjective, well it is. The only thing about this incident that wouldn’t be subjective is that Pronger’s skate came into contact with Kesler’s leg.
Posted by Sp4r7an on 03/14/08 at 04:20 PM ET
Sorry there should be a new sentence beginging with “A 200+ *pound* man…
Posted by Sp4r7an on 03/14/08 at 04:22 PM ET
Pronger seems to looks down before the stomp. Then it looks like he looks toward the ref afterwards for a split second.
If Simon’s was worth 30. This one should be close to that. 20-25.
Posted by Laker from BC on 03/14/08 at 04:25 PM ET
I’m not a doctor but I think there could be bruising regardless if Pronger stomped or not
Well, given the many versions of the incident that have been recounted in the last 24 hours, you’d think that might be a helpful piece of evidence (if it exists).
I dunno what it would prove, really, but it could help put some context around the severity of the play.
Posted by Earl Sleek from Los Angeles, CA on 03/14/08 at 04:27 PM ET
To me this looks less intentional than the Simon stomp, but there’s no way in hell it was an accident. On the other hand, Simon hit the skate rather than the less-protected calf.
Given his history (and what Simon got) he should get 25-30 games, playoffs or not. But my guess is Pronger gets five games, or at most the rest of the regular season.
I can already picture Burke whining about it ("It’s unfortunate the League continues to single out Chris Pronger for unfair treatment. Blahblahblah...")
Posted by shep from california on 03/14/08 at 04:29 PM ET
I can see the league “taking a stand” and giving him the rest of the regualar year off, but all that does is rest him for the playoffs. Eventually they’ll have to take a stand on him, but it’ll probably be after he maims or kills someone.
Posted by KP from Detroit on 03/14/08 at 05:12 PM ET
Earl - I have a lot of sympathy for being a fan of a team with a player everyone hates, believe me. 
(And btw, I love your ProngerCam idea...!)
I don’t even care about Pronger so much as I want to understand the procedure in a situation like this. Kesler made a serious accusation, but that first video was inconclusive, so I totally understand why there would be no discipline based on that.
But what I don’t understand is why that was the end of it. If TSN (and apparently Sportsnet, who supplied the video that the NHL is actually using for their review - according to Fan590 several times today, anyway) could clean up that footage, why didn’t the NHL do the same thing before letting the matter slide?
Two reasons they probably should have: the accusation itself was serious, the possibility of a skate being used as a weapon always should be; and well, common sense says that when it comes to Chris Pronger, people were bound to have questions.
Whether Pronger is guilty or not, it’s the NHL itself that - from where I’m sitting - could have avoided much of this if they’d handled it differently. And that would have been better for everyone. Just knowing clearly that they had done their best to get to the truth of the matter, and then explain the basis for their decision.
I just want to understand the reasons for whatever they decide. That would be better for everyone - especially the NHL’s players - than leaving it a mystery.
Posted by Alanah McGinley from British Columbia on 03/14/08 at 05:30 PM ET
Pronger’s always been a goon. Remember when he played for the Blues and tried to take Yzerman out with a dirty hit in the 2002 playoffs? Yzerman moved at the last second and pronger went heavily into the boards and took himself out of the game and out of the series. That was a classic! If only he could do that to himself every year. I’m still amazed a team he was on actually won the cup. He’s got to be the most overrated player in the NHL. He’s nothing but a goon.
Posted by Andy from Michigan on 03/14/08 at 05:35 PM ET
I just want to understand the reasons for whatever they decide.
I don’t know if you’ll end up satisfied in this regard; the NHL likes to play these things close-to-the-vest. And even fielding comments throughout the day at BoC, I’m not even sure that the fans are very united in what considerations the NHL should take (action vs. intent vs. reputation), other than a prevailing “must be guilty, it’s Pronger” sentiment.
Three things make suspension tough for me, though: no real reaction from the referees, no real reaction from the Canucks, and having to read intent into a YouTube split-second. Basically, if Pronger gets suspended, I think it’s going to be a fan-driven initiative, which I find a bit irksome, especially when a lot of what’s being said tends towards emotionalism.
We’ll see. I still think there’s some odds the NHL doesn’t end up speaking on this at all.
Posted by Earl Sleek from Los Angeles, CA on 03/14/08 at 06:38 PM ET
The NHL looks the other way whenever it involves “star” players so I wouldn’t be surprised if the most Chrissie got was 3 games. Still, three games at this critical time of the year could make a difference. Nah, they’ll let him “skate” (no pun intended) with a fine. After all, Anaheim winning is “good for hockey”
Posted by Jeff K from San Jose CA on 03/14/08 at 06:58 PM ET
Earl - You’re right that they do tend to make us guess, but I think there is a chance that they may have some words to say in this situation, largely because it’s been a bit of a mess. And when it comes to notable incidents they have previously gone on record to explain.
For instance, at the time of the Chris Simon suspension, Colin Campbell made this statement:
“Several factors were considered in imposing the longest suspension in NHL history for an on-ice incident. While it was fortunate there was no serious injury to Mr. Ruutu as a result of Simon’s action, the deliberate act of kicking an opponent with an exposed skate blade, especially where the opponent is in a vulnerable position, is and always has been a repugnant and totally unacceptable act in the game of hockey.”
Posted by Alanah McGinley from British Columbia on 03/14/08 at 07:28 PM ET
Earl, get over the “it’s Pronger so he must be guilty” thing. If Pronger receives a suspension for this act that would be his 8th, tying him with Simon. If Simon did the same thing (again) he would get a HUGE suspension, so why should Pronger be treated differently? Simon is a goon who the league looks at more than other players and that same standard should apply to Pronger at this point. The precedent for a goon using his skate as a weapon is 30 games so shouldn’t Pronger get at least 15 or 20? It would be too bad for the Ducks to lose him for the first round of the playoffs but isn’t the point of a suspension to make the player think twice before doing it again?
If a guy has 7 career suspensions and is facing an 8th wouldn’t it be safe to say the first 6 didn’t really do much to change his mentality on the ice? At a certain point you have to throw down a heavy suspension whether the most recent incident deserves it or not. The guy simply has not learned his lesson and the NHL continues to be his enabler.
Posted by Aaron from Boston on 03/14/08 at 07:42 PM ET
>>For instance, at the time of the Chris Simon suspension, Colin Campbell made this statement:
“Several factors were considered in imposing the longest suspension in NHL history for an on-ice incident. While it was fortunate there was no serious injury to Mr. Ruutu as a result of Simon’s action, the deliberate act of kicking an opponent with an exposed skate blade, especially where the opponent is in a vulnerable position, is and always has been a repugnant and totally unacceptable act in the game of hockey.”
Posted by Alanah<<
Thanks Alanah. This is exactly why if Pronger doesn’t get 10 plus games GB and CC should resign immediately.
Posted by ocenbrez from Down Under on 03/14/08 at 08:36 PM ET
Aaron, I responded at BoC, but your argument really does boil down to “it’s Pronger, he must be guilty”, does it not? The fact that he’s Pronger appears to be the second or third most relevant piece of evidence that the NHL is dealing with.
I know it’s proof enough for a lot of fans, and I guess we’ll see if the league decides it’s that simple also. It’s still going to be a strange decision reversal, though, because he was Pronger when they looked at it yesterday. All that really seems to have changed in the last 24 hours has been the clarity of the video (content basically unchanged) and the clamor of the fans and media (strangely, not the clamor from the Canucks or referees, though).
Anyways, I won’t belabor it. It’s clear I’m in the minority, as Ducks fans usually are. Let’s hope the NHL’s new decision has a longer shelf life than their last one.
Posted by Earl Sleek from Los Angeles, CA on 03/14/08 at 08:55 PM ET
Everyone:
There are no further developments expected tonight and I’ve made my (likely) last update for the evening at 7pm PT. Pronger’s phone hearing with the League will be Saturday sometime.
Meanwhile, if it helps to explain the sequence of events to anyone, the NHL’s Mike Murphy (VP of Hockey Operations) provided this explanation for the League’s change in course today:
“We viewed the incident the night that it happened but we did not have the isolation view until [Thursday] night around 10 p.m. Once we saw it clearly and up close, our antennas went up.”
Thanks for all the interesting comments. I know these kind of situations can make people very passionate.
Posted by Alanah McGinley from British Columbia on 03/14/08 at 09:18 PM ET
We, the people.....
http://www.petitiononline.com/pronger/petition.html
Hello out there, we’re on the air, it’s hockey night tonight!
Posted by Laker from Dapuddle on 03/14/08 at 10:26 PM ET
Sleek, I guess my point is that it’s not because it’s Pronger. If you replace Pronger with anyone else who has had 7 previous suspensions it’s just as bad. I think this warrants a suspension in the 5-10 game range no matter what, but when you take into account the fact that the offender has 7 previous suspensions I think it needs to be in the 15-20 game range at least because clearly this guy hasn’t gotten the message.
Posted by Aaron from Boston on 03/14/08 at 10:27 PM ET
OlderthanChelios, I totally agree with your statement that it’s now up to the NHL to rein in Pronger. With his ego and “it’s-all-about-me"-attitude, it’s obvious he already feels invulnerable to any consequences for his sickening, arrogant cheapshot behavior.
And if they don’t do something that will finally hurt HIM where he lives, then they will have to live with the consequences of their inaction. And it could mean another player’s career or life.
Posted by Vladifan from Texas on 03/15/08 at 08:19 AM ET
I just wanted to add my first comment on this blog. Fair is fair...Simon was suspended and, from what I see on the video so should Pronger.
I am tired of his better than thou ego trip. I cannot believe he is a captain! A leader of an NHL team who seemingly has no heart. I think the NHL needs to have some reviews during plays...maybe 3 per game if needed. Not to slow down the action of course, but at times plays need to be reviewd for fairness if anything.
Posted by dwingsrock from VA on 03/15/08 at 09:52 AM ET
8 game suspension… someone here guessed they’d only give him a suspension for the rest of the reg season, looks like they were right.
I think it’s weak personally. Seems like the NHL is afraid to hand out a deserving penalty to a high-profile player.
Posted by LOUiE from Cowtown on 03/15/08 at 01:48 PM ET
Big bad Pronger, stomp a guy when he’s down on the ice. Eight games (HA) oh that’s right his GM is Brian Burke formerly of the NHL office...HMMM!!! Someone needs to stick this guy good. Not put him in the hospital but knock him into next week. Let’s see, oh yea we need to go back to the 70’s or earlier to find someone willing to do it.
The NHL is becoming an ice show...it’s no wonder the rodeo and poker have better ratings.
Posted by rocketman from detroit on 03/16/08 at 05:11 PM ET
The thing that bugs me the most out of this is that Chris Pronger gets a nice long break to rest up before the playoffs. What a joke. How about giving him a couple of games in the first round too? He should have been given at least a ten game suspension. He got star treatment. Case in point - the playoffs last year when he got not one, but two one game suspensions for dirty hits. This guy is a disgrace. And so is the disciplinary committe who didn’t have the balls to give him a steeper fine.
Posted by Trini from VanC on 03/17/08 at 11:58 AM ET
Pronger has always been a dirty player. Look at his list of suspensions and just watch him play. He consistently plays with an intent to injure. Yet he never drops the gloves against a heavyweight fighter or tries to take liberties with a serious goon. Look at the suspensions, Holmstrom, Kesler, Buchberger etc… Just once I would like to see him take on a signficant guy.
My favorite play was when he was going to cross check Stevie Y late in a losing effort and Yzerman saw it coming ducked and Proger (gap tooth tard) blew out his knee. I only wish it would have been career ending.
His suspension should have been 15 at least based on previous actions and the intent to injure.
Posted by Bbeau from Milwaukee on 03/24/08 at 04:33 PM ET
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About Canucks & Beyond
Alanah McGinley has been blogging hockey since 2003, sharing opinions, rants and not-so-deep thoughts with anyone who will listen. In addition to writing Canucks & Beyond and helping manage Kukla’s Korner, Alanah is one of the founders and co-hosts of The Crazy Canucks Podcast, as featured at Canucks.com.
She has contributed pieces to FoxSports.com and the New York Times Slapshot blog, as well as other stray destinations in cyberspace.
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Ok so that showed he clearly stomped. There needs to be a suspension.
Posted by Sp4r7an on 03/14/08 at 11:56 AM ET