And thus, the overabundance of forwards may be cleared up shortly.

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 09/11/07 at 05:31 AM ET

Hmh.

Seems a certain someone here has been saying all along that you shouldn’t count your chickens before they hatch when it comes to Dregs.

Posted by Thomas on 09/11/07 at 12:30 PM ET

Hmm.

Never knew you were a fan, Thommy…

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bfd_1189521180

Buck up, lil’ camper, I’m sure she’ll pull through.

Courage.

Posted by TeamDub from Toledo on 09/11/07 at 01:30 PM ET

Considering how positive Tom usually is regarding the Wings and their prospects it’s simply shocking no-one took his calm, rational and unbiased warning to heart.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 09/11/07 at 02:09 PM ET

I am neither positive nor negative toward Wings prospects. I am realistic. I am always calm (people seem to think I get worked up, but I never do...I just have a naturally harsh tone), and there is no bias to my analysis.

I am not a Wings fan, but that doesn’t mean I cannot analyze the Wings in an unbiased fashion.
I am an Avs fan, and I catch hell for my unbiased analysis of the Avs.

And Bushay, grow the *#$%@& up already. You have been trying to turn the group against me for something like five years now, and it didn’t work.  I doubt that it’s going to work here, either.

Posted by Thomas on 09/11/07 at 02:14 PM ET

I am not a Wings fan, but that doesn’t mean I cannot analyze the Wings in an unbiased fashion.
I am an Avs fan

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHSNORTHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Posted by Paul from Miami Beach on 09/11/07 at 02:30 PM ET

I stand corrected.  It was my mistake to think someone who called Zetterberg a fringe prospect, lauded Vrbata over Datsyuk, has ripped Holland endlessly and has predicted the imminent doom of the Wings for years could POSSIBLY be considered biased.  Never mind a diametrically opposed Avs-optimism

Man, I really missed the boat on that one.  Sorry Tom.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 09/11/07 at 05:58 PM ET

It takes a big man to apologize HD.  I stifled a sob as I read it.

And his name’s Thom.

Posted by IwoCPO from Washington, DC on 09/11/07 at 05:59 PM ET

I love it when people cite something from seven years ago as if it is at all relevant.

Seven years ago, Zetterberg was a fringe prospect. Hate to break it to you, but there are fringe prospects today that are going to develop into useful NHL players. Colorado had a couple as well, you may have heard of them...Chris Drury and Milan Hejduk.

At the time I said that Vrbata was better than Datsyuk, he was better than Datsyuk. He’s not anymore, but that’s irrelevant.

Holland has done an awful job right from the very start. His very first move as GM was one of the five dumbest moves in recent NHL history (signing an already-injured Uwe Krupp to 4yrs/$16m, when the guy wasn’t worth half that when he was healthy). The fact that the team has won a couple Cups while he has been GM is a testament to the players they had and the system they ran. Once Yzerman started slowing down, the Wings were no longer contenders, and that’s why you saw them have trouble getting out of the second round, then needing two teams to choke to make the conference finals this past year.

I am not biased against the Wings. My favorite coach in the NHL is Babcock, and I have gone on record continually as saying I would gladly give you Sakic and Quenneville for Babcock. My favorite player in the NHL is a Wing. I spent the early years of my life watching and rooting for the Wings.

I’m biased against Wings FANS, but that’s a separate issue entirely. Wings fans are why I am not a Wings fan anymore. And you know what? I am very glad. If I were a Wings fan, I would be PISSED that my team is run so poorly. I’d be PISSED that my team couldn’t draft worth a shit. I’d be PISSED that my team’s fans are such arrogant, ignorant, elitist shitbags. As it is, I am pissed that my favorite team’s fans are such pom-pon waving, Kool-Aid drinking morons, and they aren’t anywhere near as bad as Wings fans.

But think whatever you want.

And Bill, keep throwing those nicknames out there. Maybe one day you will stumble across one that’s funny. Or e-mail me and I will give you a couple, then you can pretend you made them up.

Posted by Thomas on 09/11/07 at 07:30 PM ET

I can’t understand why you reacted so obnoxiously when I bared my heart in such an emotional mea culpa Tom… er, Thom.

You see, it’s undeserved bitterness and spite like that which makes all the touchy-feely parts of me want to shrivel up and die.  Fortunately, my love for my fellow man is nearly boundless… which is something I have in common with Avs fans like you.  Probably expressed a bit differently, though.

I know, I know… Holland’s continual mis-management of the team is our cross to bear.  Every single day true Wings fans and level-headed analysts like yourself have to wonder what might have been.  I mean, where was Holland when Theodore was available, I ask you?  How could he let such a valuable component go to the Avs without contesting it?  And at such a bargain price?  Agh.  Instead we’re all left with that empty feeling you can only get when you think a real GM could have brought the team 4 or 5 Cups in 10 years instead of a measley 2.  Drat.

Oh well.  I guess there just aren’t enough truly genius GMs like Lacroix around anymore.  You Avs fans should feel blessed to have had his shrewd expertise guiding you to all those Cup victories and that stocked to the gills corps of youngsters. 

Why, missing the playoffs like the Avs did last year came at the perfect time, allowing the team to avoid wearing themselves out in some long and drawn out playoff pursuit and really letting them get recharged and ready to just rip-roar though the NHL in 2008.

Color me exceedingly jealous of such Machiavellian brilliance.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 09/11/07 at 08:40 PM ET

I can’t understand why you reacted so obnoxiously when I bared my heart in such an emotional mea culpa Tom… er, Thom.

You reap what you sow. You tee off on me every chance you get, despite me never having uttered a cross word in your direction. I slam Wings fans in general, and you take shots at me personally. There’s only so much of that that I am going to put up with before I respond in kind.

Don’t like it? Stop doing it.

You want to take shots at Avs fans? Fine. Go right ahead. There is no reason for me or anyone else to take it personally. But when you cross that line and take shots at me personally, well, expect the same.

You see, it’s undeserved bitterness and spite like that which makes all the touchy-feely parts of me want to shrivel up and die.  Fortunately, my love for my fellow man is nearly boundless…

My intolerance for stupidity is boundless. Don’t take that as a personal shot, it’s a general remark. Some of the brightest people I know have said some really stupid things (as have I - an understatement). And it drives me nuts. Always has.

I know, I know… Holland’s continual mis-management of the team is our cross to bear.

Nope, it’s a source of constant entertainment for me.

Used to frustrate me that Wings fans didn’t realize it. See, most of them are Lions fans, and we all know that the Lions are horribly mis-managed because the team doesn’t perform well. But the Wings were the best team in the NHL when Holland took over, and it has taken a lot for that team to fall back to Earth. Holland rode the wave for awhile, and the veteran leadership of that team and the system they played were enough to keep the team very competitive for a long time.

Circumstance has kept the Wings amongst the six or seven best teams in the league until this past offseason. They have a great coach, a great system, excellent defensive depth, good goaltending (as long as Hasek is healthy) and play in a very weak division. The Wings will still be a playoff team this year, and should probably still win their division and get a top-3 seed in the WC.

And I guess that circumstance is what blinds Wings fans from seeing things as they are. Enh, whatever. The Wings will continue their decline, I will be proven right, and nobody will ever admit it.

I mean, where was Holland when Theodore was available, I ask you?

Well, he WAS chewed out ROYALLY by Illitch when he went out and spend over $16m on goalies in 03-04, with Hasek, CuJo and Legace all on the roster at the same time.

I am going to go ahead and say that he probably didn’t want that ass-chewing again, otherwise he would have made a move for JoeTed.

I mean, he DID go out and get an equally bad Todd Bertuzzi at the deadline, after all.

BTW, both the Bertuzzi move and the JoeTed trade were the right thing to do at the time.

Instead we’re all left with that empty feeling you can only get when you think a real GM could have brought the team 4 or 5 Cups in 10 years instead of a measley 2.

The Avs had and have some serious problems that have kept them from winning as many Cups as they should have. Let’s be honest, there was a streak of eight years there where no team other than Detroit or Colorado really had any business winning a Cup. Colorado choked several times, and the two major weaknesses the team had are still there.

But GM wasn’t one of them. Lacroix made the moves necessary to win the Cup every year that they were contenders. At some point, the players have to get it done, and as I said, there are two really big reasons why they didn’t do that.

You Avs fans should feel blessed to have had his shrewd expertise guiding you to all those Cup victories and that stocked to the gills corps of youngsters.

We should have had more than two Cups, but again, there are two big reasons why we don’t, and they have nothing to do with Lacroix.

As for the youngsters, yes, Lacroix did an exceptionally good job. The best in the league, actually. When I spent those years doing my thesis, when I really got a good taste of the numbers, I was even more impressed at the fact that the Avs “got it” when no other team did. And then they adapted their strategy to the new CBA, while it took two years for any other team to even begin to catch on.

Posted by Thomas on 09/11/07 at 09:38 PM ET

Wow.

I feel honored beyond all reason that you’d choose to share your insightful, far-reaching and obviously well-informed opinions on the Wings with us, Thom.

Considering there must be a simply crushing demand for your time in any number of information outlets, that you’d deign to educate us poor souls on the nature of the Wings and Hockey in general is a rare and precious gift.

My one true hope is that someday your dream will come true and the Wings in fact have a bad season or two.  Maybe they’ll even miss the playoffs one year.  After that, I’m certain you’d have all the proof of their decline you’d need.

But, since the Avs will have won their 4th or 5th straight Cup by the time that happens, maybe you’ll be too tipsy on the draughts of success to notice.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 09/12/07 at 10:27 AM ET

Good God.
Eric and Thomas are still waging war over busted prospectcs from six years ago.

Somethings never change.

The Grigorenko stuff should have been plain to see.
One, he’s got an out clause, which means he’s not all that sure he’d make the team. Two, he’s got an out clause, which means he’s not willing to go to Grand Rapids and get used to the game. Three, his skating is only at 90 percent of what it was four years ago. In today’s NHL, that’s significant. Meanwhile, his offense hasn’t been all that spectacular in Russia since the crash.

I’m not writing him off. But I’m not betting the farm on him either.
I’d say there is 25 percent chance he’s still on the team Dec. 1.

Posted by NewsGuyOne on 09/12/07 at 10:57 PM ET

You’re not exactly quick on the uptake, are you Tin?  I don’t think anyone’s said anything terribly pro-Grigorenko, aside from being hopeful he’d make the roster.  I know you think ‘fail’ first when it comes to almost anything Wings (you did, after all, pick against them in every single playoff round last year IIRC), but yikes.  At least wait until the music starts before trying to rain on the parade.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 09/13/07 at 05:24 PM ET