My 8 year old son thinks Jimmy will be.  Me?  Beginning to have a few doubts about Howard. 
Hopefully all of them you mentioned are just going through temporary slumps.

Posted by Jeff from Loveland, CO on 11/24/08 at 10:37 AM ET

I’ll go with Helm, Howard and Ericsson next year for sure.

Posted by Heaton on 11/24/08 at 10:41 AM ET

I think that for most goalies, it takes many years to reach their potential.
Witness Chris Osgood, or Tim Thomas, or Joey Macdonald.

The Roberto Luongos are rare.

So I think Howard will get there, but it may take years longer than anticipated.

On the other hand, some of the elite college goalies from MSU and UM have not made it in the NHL…

Posted by w2j2 on 11/24/08 at 10:44 AM ET

Helm, Ericsson, Leino. Abdelkader will get better than his month of November has been, but will stay on Earth and will still be a raw player that needs a second season in GR.

Helm is already just about NHL polished, as is Ericsson, and Leino can polish easier at the NHL level than Abdelkader because A) he has better, natural scoring hands B) he’s played professional hockey longer, and even won a scoring title in one of the better leagues in Europe.

Posted by Nathan on 11/24/08 at 11:01 AM ET

For what it’s worth, Howard had a .926 save percentage last year in the 197 minutes he played last year.  I only remember one full game he played, in the middle of the Wings February losing streak, but he played very well and lost 1-0.

To answer your question: no, he’ll probably never be the Wings’ starter.

Posted by Ryan from Toronto on 11/24/08 at 11:07 AM ET

GR is a pretty fresh team if I’m not mistaken. In that case, I’m more inclined to call the slump “growing pains” than anything. Still, as has been mentioned, Jimmy hasnt exactly proven his worth. He’s played well the couple times in Detroit, but his consistency in GR hasn’t been there. Good thing we’re kinda stacked with goalie options for the time being. For the skaters, streaks are inevitable, and the point-less ones are really only noticed when the whole team is slumping.

No Panic in GR, that stays exclusive to Detroit.

Posted by Nate A from Dark side of the moon on 11/24/08 at 11:11 AM ET

The three who absitivly, posolutely will be in Detroit next year are Helm, Leino and Ericsson. Abbadabbadoo will make it if the Wings need his $850k to get under the new cap (instead of resigning someone like Sammy at $2+M).

As for Howard, I think his future in Detroit depends on how he, Larsson and Conklin play the rest of this year. If Conk continues to impress (especially if he figures out how to stop giving up those juicy rebounds) and Larsson proves he’s capable of being in the NHL within two years, I think Howard may well be offered up as trade bait at the deadline next spring.

The Wings love experienced guys, and, so far, Conklin’s showing he’s someone they can count on. If he keeps it up, he just might be offered enough to stick around as the starter until Ozzie’s contract is up. Then Ozzie retires, Larsson moves up and McCullom takes his place in GR.

That’s just one of many possibilities involving Howard, Larsson and Conklin. What determines the final outcome is their play. And we all know that both Babs and TockTock love that.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids on 11/24/08 at 11:31 AM ET

Helm, Leino and Ericsson will be in Detroit for sure next year.  Howard may be, although probably as a #3 until he’s moved.

Barring collaspe, I don’t see how Detroit doesn’t make a serious effort to bring Conklin back.  Dude’s only 32, he could be a Wing for 2 or 3 more years.and even if he does well I don’t see which team is going to offer him 3 mil+ to be their starter.  That’s too risky.

Over on the HF boards I sustained repeated blasts for making so much of the Wings both drafting McCollum and bringing over Larsson, especially as that related to what they thought about Howard.  Obviously Detroit’s set themselves up to not be caught in the lurch if Howard continues to unimpress, and did so because they feared (or expected) he would.

I think Howard is most likely going to be a decent NHL backup, but Detroit is looking for a young goalie they can groom.

Then again, I’ve always been a proponent of using Lidstrom’s salary spot once his current deal expires on Luongo…

Posted by HockeyinHD on 11/24/08 at 11:46 AM ET

When Lidstrom retires, and all of Red Wing Nation will weep that day, if Tick Tock uses that cap-space to bring in an elite goalie...something we’ve been waiting for since Sabres-era Hasek, that would definately help soften the blow.

I think we definately have counter-measures in place, and Howard knows it.  We’ve been patient with him, but the heat is being turned up now and with these young kids breathing down his neck, it’s time to put up (consistent numbers) or shut up.

Trade bait at the deadline this year?  Maybe, but come on people, our thoughts right now should be on The Big Three and nothing else.

Posted by Animal Drew from A Nightmare on Helm Street on 11/24/08 at 12:34 PM ET

I too, for the record, came up with Helm, Leino and Ericsson.  Those three, along with Howard, if they have a goalie injury, seem like the three top choices to even be called up this year, nevermind get a regular roster slot next year.  I’m thinking it would take a contagious injury bug among the forwards (like last season’s among the defense corps) to have them consider bringing up Abdelkader this year (especially considering that, right now, they’ve got Meech playing forward rather than calling someone up).

Posted by Garth on 11/24/08 at 12:35 PM ET

I think by the trade dead line the Wiings will have dealt Howard.  Then in the summer after another Cup, Tick Tock will sign ConkBlock for a savory deal and then in the Fall Leino, Ericsson, and Helm will be in Detroit.  Cheli is not going to come back after this year--probably heading to Chitown.  They will keep Kopecky as an insurance card for Homer.  Sammy is gone.  Huds stays.  Hank leaves because he is upset with Uncle Mike’s lines.  Franzen stays and Hossa goes if the Wings dont win a Cup--- OK OK he stays because they win the Cup.

Posted by JR from Mich on 11/24/08 at 12:37 PM ET

i mean to post this awhile ago, but forgot, so it has no bearing on this conversation whatsoever, but here goes

There’s a Stars billboard here in Dallas that reads “Hey Detroit, you have something of ours”

not bad eh?

Posted by rwingscup19 from Dallas on 11/24/08 at 12:44 PM ET

There’s a Stars billboard here in Dallas that reads “Hey Detroit, you have something of ours”

They mean Garrett Stafford right? Or maybe Aaron Gagnon? Their AHL guys playing with the Griffs? They’ve certainly not earned anything.

Posted by Nate A from Dark side of the moon on 11/24/08 at 01:00 PM ET

I vote Helm, Ericsson and… wwelllllll..... Leino I guess.
Howard is not really making a case for himself to join us and time is not on his side now either. That’s the problem with high expectations. You only wait so long before you start the doubting and questioning.... Grigorenko is a prime example of the fall on your face after years of expectations being high.

Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 11/24/08 at 01:02 PM ET

think that for most goalies, it takes many years to reach their potential.
Witness Chris Osgood, or Tim Thomas, or Joey Macdonald.

Once upon a time, when there were six…
10 and 20 yrs BBL (before the bic lighter)
It was quite rare to see a goalie become a regular
before he reached 29-31 yrs.

As for Howard, I think his future in Detroit depends on how he, Larsson and Conklin play the rest of this year.

I think Howard’s future with the Wings depends only on
what kind of talent or retread Holland stumbles upon in the meantime.
Kenny can find the pot of gold in every rainbow.

Anybody watching Joey MacDonald..?  He is doing a damn good job
as a starter for the Isles.  When he was with the Wings, I would not have
even assigned him to shine my shoes.

Helm, Ericsson, Leino. Abdelkader will get better than his month of November has been, but will stay on Earth and will still be a raw player that needs a second season in GR.

Nathan is right on also,
inconsistent play shows these guys are not quite ready for prime time.
They need to ‘ripen’, and the A2Y19 should not be making excuses for their
performance during their apprenticeship.

Conklin gets my vote,,, stick with him Kenny, if at all possible.
Those commenters that said he was inconsistent, never paid attention to
him until he was a Red Wing.

Posted by HockeyTownTodd from upset when blogs don�t live up to my expectations on 11/24/08 at 01:08 PM ET

There’s a Stars billboard here in Dallas that reads “Hey Detroit, you have something of ours”

How on earth did the Red Wings end up with the #1 pick in the NHL draft?

OK, to the question above:

1.  Ericsson will be in Detroit by the time rosters expand and will be in Detroit to stay.
2.  Ditto Helm
3.  Same deal with Leino

Not a bad haul as far as “trade deadline deals” go and the best part is they cost nothing as far as assets go.  I think Abdelkader spends at least one more year in GR.  Howard couldn’t beat out ConkBlock [TM Pensblog] this year and he makes just about the same amount as ConkBlock so I don’t think Howard sticks in Detroit.

Posted by Dave on 11/24/08 at 01:11 PM ET

Hank leaves because he is upset with Uncle Mike’s lines.

Not to be rude, but what are you smoking? Hank’s on pace for 90 points again, and has started to develop a rapport with Mule. And that rapport will only get better over the coming weeks.

And the beauty of it all is that if at any point the Wings’ offense as a whole goes stagnant, Uncle Mike can go to the well and throw Z and Dats out there together again, even if they haven’t played together in 3 months, and they’ll create offense right from the first shift.

Posted by Nathan on 11/24/08 at 01:31 PM ET

Hank leaves because he is upset with Uncle Mike’s lines

Not happening, not no way, not no how!  Zetterberg is the next captain, not a whiner who leaves town after getting moved to the second line.  If Hossa departs after this year, Hank is right back with Datsyuk on the top line.

Mark my words, Zetterberg is the next captain of this team.

Posted by Animal Drew from A Nightmare on Helm Street on 11/24/08 at 02:20 PM ET

...even if they haven’t played together in 3 months, and they’ll create offense right from the first shift.

Amen Nathan.  The flashes of brilliance we get when the lines change slow and leave Z out with Dats and the Hossinator are tantilizing.  The chemistry is still there and waiting.....

Yet...I wonder what Megan thinks?

Posted by Rumbear from Sandy Eggo on 11/24/08 at 02:48 PM ET

I’ll be the “me too” guy today and go for Helm, Ericsson and Leino, in that order.

As far as goalies go, Malik seemed pretty impressed with Larsson’s rebound control (although I’m sure he’ll explain it himself if he happens to have the time).  It does take some work for European goalies to adapt to the NHL-sized rink.  Hence, I think it’s still up in the air as far as Larsson goes.

Howard, as likable as he seems does not put up the numbers necessary after all these years at an AHL level.  We’ll see if he ever gets the opportunity in the Red Wings.  If it happens it’s probably during this season (injuries, God forbid) rather than the next.  If he proves himself, much like Conks did last year, who knows maybe he’ll make the team next year?

Posted by lilja4ever on 11/24/08 at 03:49 PM ET

I think we’ve been giving Conklin a bit more credit than he deserves lately. His first few outings were great but the defense is rounding into shape and Conklin is a bit erratic even in those game. Like that Glencross goal last night.

Posted by Tyler from Arizona on 11/24/08 at 04:44 PM ET

I think we end up waiving Howard.  He makes too much to be a backup and not good enough to be a starter. That being said hes probably at least as good as Osgood/Conk.  You dont exactly have to be Dom Hasek to play goal in detroit.

But if Conk signs for 750k again its a no brainer who we keep.

Howard at 1m or Conk at 750k?

We stuck with Osgood for what another 2 years before he retires? Maybe we can keep Howard in the minors till then .

Posted by solo16 on 11/24/08 at 05:57 PM ET

I think we end up waiving Howard.  He makes too much to be a backup and not good enough to be a starter...Howard at 1m or Conk at 750k?...We stuck with Osgood for what another 2 years before he retires? Maybe we can keep Howard in the minors till then.

Where to begin?

1. Howard’s cap hit is $717k for this year and two more years (600k, 750k & 800k per), not a million. And if Conklin is good enough to keep (making Howard expendable), he’ll want (and get) at least double his current salary to stay.

2. “Waive” Howard? Why would you waive him when he’d bring a respectable return in a trade (either at the deadline or next summer)? His salary and his potential make him a good gamble for any number of teams. That also may be why the Wings decide to keep him.

3. This is the last season Howard can be sent down or brought up without clearing waivers, so he’ll either be on the main roster next season or he’ll be gone.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids on 11/24/08 at 07:15 PM ET

Honestly?

I was one of those who harped on Howard for a few years because I’ve seen what he can do at the NCAA level and I was really flat-out impressed with his poise and ability.  He stayed calm in the weathering SOGs when his defense wasn’t helping out.  So imagine my happiness when the Wings drafted him.  I was high on the kid and I was expecting him to be the Wings #1 starter within five years of drafting him.

Reports coming out of GR is that he’s not quite there at the AHL level - let alone the NHL level.  I’m a bit disappointed but after defensemen, goalies take the longest to develop so I just chalk it up to growing pains because why else would the Wings hold on to him for a little while longer?  Then again, there’s no more excuses this year to growing pains.  When the Wings re-signed Howard, they basically gave him an ulitmatum:  seize the day.

[shrugs]

They must know something we don’t.

If push comes to shove and it means winning the Cup, I’ll give up Howard and maybe a prospect or two to get Luongo-quality goaltending in Detroit (notwithstanding Luongo’s current injury).  Hardest jobs in Detroit?  Y’all know what those are…

I’m going to go with the rest of the Immortal 19:  Ericsson, Helm, and Leino and in that order.  If our current defense corps gets decimated again (worse case scenario), you can bet Ericsson gets the call first.

Posted by SYF from Las Vegas, NV on 11/24/08 at 07:29 PM ET

Two things keep being missed by the other 18 of you.

1) Conklin is 32, going to be 33 in March. He’s been a journeyman backup his entire career. Like alot of journeymen goalies in the league he has issues with consistency. This is typically a matter of mental fortitude. I think part of his success in Pitt last year and Detroit this year comes from not having to be “the guy”. Behind MAF last year, and now Ozzy, he knows he’s not the #1 goalie, and it’s a weight off his mind that allows him to play his best. I won’t say it’s impossible, but it his highly unlikely Conk makes vast improvement in his game at his age.

2) Jimmy Howard is only 24. He makes slightly less than Conk right now, but he’s really all upside. Whereas Conklin is already at his peak Jimmy shows the kind of poise that hints he could be an NHL starter someday. He, like Conk is streaky, but it’s an age/experience appropriate streakyness. He also needs to develop his mental game, but the odds of him doing so are much greater than the odds of Conk doing so.

So with that in mind, I doubt Jimmy’s going anywhere unless the deal is absolutely stacked in Tick Tock’s favor.

Posted by wingsfanindenver on 11/24/08 at 09:51 PM ET

With the Stars having recalled Landon Wilson, it’s changed the makeup of GR’s top two lines, so let’s see what happens after a few games.

Kepe in mind, GR was at its hottest while Howard was hurt early in the season.

Posted by Primis on 11/25/08 at 08:51 AM ET

“I think part of his success in Pitt last year and Detroit this year comes from not having to be “the guy”.”

But, when Fleury went down he WAS the guy, and he handled himself pretty well, didn’t he?

Posted by Garth on 11/25/08 at 09:27 AM ET

I don’t quite get how one can characterize what Howard’s done so far in GR as a demonstration of ‘poise’, but whatever.

Here’s what we know about Howard.  His play hasn’t improved since day 1, and that’s being charitable.  His GAA has gone up every year.  His winning percentage has gone down every year.  While a certain degree of any goaltenders success is a function of the team around him… on the other hand a teams success is a function of the goaltender behind them, too.

Howard hasn’t done one single thing, not one, to demonstrate that he’s a legitimate top 10 AHL goalie.

That isn’t to say he’s incapable of subsequently playing well, anything is possible, I’m merely pointing out that after 3 years going on 4 in the AHL Howard has yet to answer any of the big questions about his game… and in these cases no answers are as telling as bad ones would be.

As of today he’s getting outplayed by a guy who has been in the US for about 6 months.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 11/25/08 at 10:51 AM ET