The Stanley Hangover.  It is real, no matter what Babs says.  He knows it, too.

Melrose!  The Mulletted One.  He who hates the Red Wings....
Guess whom he coached his last game against?

Posted by w2j2 on 11/17/08 at 08:20 AM ET

I have to say, I’m not a fan of the February boredom occurring in October and November.  The only difference here is that the record shows that the Wings are doing “fine.”

Thankfully, hockey isn’t a sport where you have to sift through elaborate sabermetrics to find out what’s wrong here.  The answers are obvious for Detroit: 

The defense is letting them down.

Posted by HockeyJoe from Upstate New York on 11/17/08 at 08:36 AM ET

You think Teddy wants the “C” again?

Uncle Mike was also the guy who told us all that the best players would make the team.

Posted by monkey from The AQ on 11/17/08 at 08:45 AM ET

But then a rebound against Tampa, which--on paper--has a better offense.  But the paper doesn’t mean much, right Barry? 

Someone had a great quote from an unnamed Lightning player describing the Mullet’s “system” in Tampa:  “shinny hockey with a couple fights thrown in for good measure”.

Posted by monkey from The AQ on 11/17/08 at 08:47 AM ET

Yes, defense is not good… one good sign is that Nick’s early season fluke-mistakes seem to be going away, and Kronwall has stepped his game up in both ends. The penalties have been a little less awful as well. There’s a lot of progress to be made, but those are a few small things that hopefully get the ball rolling in the right direction.

Posted by Nathan on 11/17/08 at 08:59 AM ET

It doesn’t really matter what prism you are looking through when discussing the Wings, fact is that at the moment, they are not playing defense nearly as well as last season, or are they?

2008: 
36.2 S/G (2nd)
28.4 SA/G (8th) DIFFERENTIAL:  +7.8
33.3 PP% (1st)
81.3 PK% (14th)
3.62 G/G (1st)
3.25 GA/G (24th)

2007/’08
2008: 
34.4 S/G (1st)
23.5 SA/G (1st) DIFFERENTIAL:  +10.9
20.7 PP% (3rd)
84.0 PK% (8th)
3.07 G/G (3rd)
2.18 GA/G (1st)

Very Interesting numbers.  SA/G are up this season by only 4, yet GA/G is up over 1 per game.

Goalie controversy, you could say that if you want.

Posted by Jeff - - OklahomaWingNut from Wind-Swept-Plains on 11/17/08 at 09:36 AM ET

Because I haven’t had enough coffee yet, please not the bottom column are end of season stats for ‘07/’08.

Posted by Jeff - - OklahomaWingNut from Wind-Swept-Plains on 11/17/08 at 09:37 AM ET

It doesn’t hinge on one player. The “D” has looked terrible. I miss the mean old man,Cheli.
Looks like the rest of the “D” misses him also.

Posted by Kate from Pa. on 11/17/08 at 09:39 AM ET

Is it just my imagination that Detroit makes goalies look good because of their defensive systems and prowess, and that at this point, with those defensive mistakes that seem uncommon, it is not unexpected. Chris Osgood is good in Detroit, but would not be able to put up Mike Smith’s numbers in Tampa, or am I mistaken? Was it a surprise when in the last All-Star game he let in more goals (5 on 16 shots) than any other goaltender?

Considering those defensive struggles, and that for the Wings, 11-2-3 is considered less-than-expected as a start, should one really be surprised that Conklin, who utterly dominated for long stretches last season in Pittsburg in Fleury’s absence, gets more chances?

Posted by SENShobo from Waterloo, ON on 11/17/08 at 09:44 AM ET

We’ve had some bad habits to start this season, terrible habits even.
These bad habits have become trends and are not statistical anomilies.
What could have been cured by one or two good games is going to be fuel for the Stress Train for a good while.
We have never asked our goalie to be the man or steal a game, just be solid and be there when needed.. we’ve had a team D philosophy.  This year we’ve got neither.
I don’t feel dirty in the slightest calling this team to the carpet for its performance. Relying on offense (talent & skill) and the PP is a double edged sharp knife. Not playing with any fire, passion nor desire, we are very fortunate to have the W-L record we have.  Not winning the small battles is a problem, not trying hard enough is completely another.
Would a few more losses have slapped us in the face and really woke up the sleeping dragon here? I never agree that a W is a W, the means are more important than the end at this point in our young season.

Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 11/17/08 at 09:44 AM ET

SENShobo - judging anyone based off of the All-Star game reeks of foolishness, I wouldn’t take much solace in that at all.

Posted by HockeyJoe from Upstate New York on 11/17/08 at 10:22 AM ET

Judging, no. It’s merely a coincidental one-off observation. He was the worst goalie at the ASG though, in both GAA and Sv%, but I fully admit that one game never defines a goalie. Ottawa, a few years back, shelled out Brodeur and got him pulled en route to an 8-1 rout, but I won’t question his ability.

Detroit’s usual just-over-20-shots and dependable, reliable, predictable defense has been what makes Osgood good. He’s also still been more dependable than any goalie in Ottawa’s memory (save the one we borrowed from Detroit for the non-injured part of a season). But it’s a tough road for Wings fans to argue that he is not a large by-product of the Wings’ defensive system.

Posted by SENShobo from Waterloo, ON on 11/17/08 at 10:41 AM ET

Are GA’s up against the Wings?  Yes.

They’re up for everyone though.  I’m sitting here watching 6-5 games every single night lately.  Scoring… is… up.  Around the league.  Period.  It’s a bad time to be a defensive team.  This is why the Devils struggled at the start and are still struggling.

No need to panic though.

Posted by Primis on 11/17/08 at 10:48 AM ET

I have to agree somewhat with Mr. Senshobo.  All Detroit looks for in a goalie, or in a replacement player when someone gets injured for that matter, is to not screw up and blow the game for us.  Quincy did exactly that in the playoffs when Kronwall went down, Helm did it in last season’s playoffs.  Osgood won a cup with Detroit, flopped in St. Louis, then came back and won a cup with Detroit.  I’m not saying the guy can’t steal games, and he has on occasion...I’m saying that we don’t really expect him to.  We just need him to be the calm and consistent backstop which is what makes him perfect for this team and no where else.  Ozzie has enough experience and has enough class to be patient and let this hangover slump he has fallen into work itself out.  Let Conk-Block get his minutes this early on as Ozzie works out the kinks on his own.

Posted by Animal Drew from The Mitten on 11/17/08 at 10:54 AM ET

I DVRed the game between the Hawks/Sharks last night and watched it for a while last night before sleep got the better of me (or maybe it was the wine).  That was a crazy game. I’m wondering about all the calls on hooking and holding and if that is affecting teams defensively.  How can you play defense if it seems you are going to get called for even touching the offensive player?

Still, it doesn’t seem like the Wings are blocking shots the way they were last year.  The defense is just consistently out of position.

As for Osgood, he needs to stay in net and please stop trying to handle the puck.  He gives up such huge rebounds....

I know others have mentioned this but where are Detroit’s SHGs?

Posted by hockeychic from Denver, CO on 11/17/08 at 11:00 AM ET

I’ll agree that the Wings don’t need a Roberto Luongo-type goalie who will play 70 games and stop 50 shots a night, but I do think that being a successful goalie who can make a a flurry of good stops amidst stretches of what must be mind-numbing boredom for them is a talent that not all goalies possess.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 11/17/08 at 11:28 AM ET

Nice Blog. Very inspired as usual.

solo16

Posted by solo16 on 11/17/08 at 11:32 AM ET

WAY off topic, but another classic quote:

“For a lot of people, that’s how they live life. That’s not how he lives. So we’ve got to get him back seeing.”

shouldn’t be too hard to guess the source.

Posted by christpuncher from detroit on 11/17/08 at 11:40 AM ET

Personally I see no reason for Babcock not to split their games 50:50.  erm or 41 41.

They both relatively good. Let them split the load. TBH when it comes to game stealing ability i perfer Conklin to Osgood.  But there is something about Osgood that is a stablizing force.

I still remember the young osgood who absolutely had the game stealing ability but for the most part that has been lost.  I think the real debates begin once cleary hits the LTIR.

Then Tick Tock will have a field day given Babcock all the ammo he needs.
Oh ur forwards suck try Leino for a week
Need more speed how bout Helm…
Borat hasnt showered in a week and meech keeps playing grabass with Lija? Take Ericsson.

Wanna teach both your veteran goalies a lesson why not play Howard for a few games. 

Its up to two people to right this ship imo… Nick Lidstrom (captain) and Kenny Holland. 

On a side note Grampa Chelios may be a nice stablizing force as well. Just having him at practice again is bound to help eveyones game. He also strikes me as a very vocal leader. If Lidstrom wont open a can of whopass surely Chelios will take hudler on his knee and give him a demonstration spanking to remind everyone if they play like shit they will be abused like happy hudler.

Ya *#$%@& it. I hate to say it but Chelios is the best chance we have for a solution atm. The team lacks that pissed of sucker punching cross check u in the face attitude that frankly Nick Lidstrom just cant provide alone. Nor can D or Z or even hossa for that matter.  Who provided this last year? Chelios and Downey. Yes I said it Downey… Downey may not be half the hockey player of Darren McCarty but he has 5x times the heart and determination.  This team has no soul currently. Waive lebda. Activate chelios send McCarty down bring Helm up (energy) and find a way to get Downey in the line up too or at least practicing in detroit.

Posted by solo16 on 11/17/08 at 11:41 AM ET

Chief, you’ve doomed us all.  Mark my words, you’ve opened the door to hell, and now you’ll have to live with the consequences. By uttering the phrase “goalie controversy”, you’ve summoned the dark one. 

Somewhere, Hasek awakens from his slumber and begins a four-day stretching routine....

Posted by Gabriel from San Diego, CA on 11/17/08 at 11:47 AM ET

The defense is just consistently out of position.

I was at the Tampa game, and watching live is obviously a much better way to see what’s going on.  Almost every time the puck was in the Detroit zone, 4 or even all 5 Detroit players were within 20 feet of it.  Everyone is trying to do too much instead of playing their role and being in position.  It caused two major issues that I saw - if they got the puck away from the other team they were to bunched together to break out, and the guy who got the puck had nowhere to go with it because all his teammates were right there with him; and it was leaving opposing players open to intercept the clearing attempts or take a pass from their teammate.  When the puck made it through the Wings “20-foot-zone-defense” then they had to scramble to move the zone to where the puck went.  Unless it’s a team full of Helms, they’re not going to get there in time 95% of the time.  Way too much scrambling instead of the poised, calm defense we’re used to.

And yes, it did look like the Wings are afraid to touch the opposing player when he has the puck in their zone.  Is this reactionary from the horrible officiating, or just a lack of work ethic?  I’m not sure.  But I saw a lot of “following the guy with the puck” instead of “playing the guy with the puck” from the Wings.  It wasn’t just one or two players, either...it was ALL of them.

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 11/17/08 at 11:49 AM ET

I know others have mentioned this but where are Detroit’s SHGs?

Cleary is half blind and Draper is allergic to any kind of offensive production these days.  Also, we’ve surpassed the legal limit for 5-on-3’s against. We’re penalty killing drunk.

Posted by Tyler from Lansing on 11/17/08 at 12:10 PM ET

It is a long, long season.  The players know they are going to
make the playoffs...and there is a lot of ‘just going thru the motions’.
Every player wants to be healthy come April.  Management can only
come down so hard on the players, as long as they keep winning.

Jeff, when you are evaluating, based on stats, even strength goals
should be a major consideration.  Just subtract the PPG from the Goals.

SHG can also mean 5-10 more
wins per season, and they have disappeared from the Wings PK.
PHI has 8, SJS have 5, and the Wings nada.  Last year at this time,
the Wings had so many that teams were wishing they could decline
the penalty.  I don’t know what has changed regarding the Wings PK,
but Drake, Cheli, and Cleary have always been among the best at
creating open ice.  Cleary’s PK time is down this year with Hossa, and
the Mule added to the PK.  Draper’s time on the PK is also down, and
his speed is missed.

Wings have also thrown a few body checks on the PK, which is a no-no,
because you are turning a 5 on 4 situation into 4 on 3 momentarily.
Bodychecks on the PK are frowned upon because rarely does your
outnumbered staff wind up with the puck, for clearing.

Posted by HockeyTownTodd on 11/17/08 at 12:20 PM ET

i’m ok with a little controversy right now. A little bit of competition within the ranks is healthy.

And Ozzy certainly needs the break. Maybe Drapes can flutter pucks at him for a while so he can work on those softies he’s been letting in.

Posted by Nate A from metro Detroit on 11/17/08 at 12:36 PM ET

From the TSN.ca Power Rankings for this week:

One of the challenges for champions trying to repeat is getting guys to sacrifice and play defence and the Wings have seen their shots on goal rise from 23.5 last season to 28.4 per game this year.

For HTT:

2008
5 - 5 F/A:  0.97 (15th)

‘07/’08
5 - 5 F/A:  1.41 (1st)

Yep, astute HTT.  If not for the smoking PP, Wings are getting outscored this year.

Posted by Jeff - - OklahomaWingNut from Wind-Swept-Plains on 11/17/08 at 12:41 PM ET

Solo16 has it right!

I am the biggest McCarty fan ever.  His is the only jersey I own, and I went through a lot to finally get him to sign it for me.

But last June when the Wings won the Cup and I accidentally ended up at Cheli’s Chili and was blessed to drink from the Cup for the first time ever (which is pretty sad considering how often the Wings have won the Cup and how thoroughly I’ve done my best to be a groupie).

Downey was the wild eyed barbarian who had obviously been drinking too much before and during the parade and the crowd at Cheli’s Chili would have followed him anywhere and punched anyone he directed us to punch.  He would have been happy if we burned the city down.

But there was a counterweight parading across the same bar and his name was Chris Osgood.  He kept us in line and lectured us.  I remember something like, “We won this Cup as a team, and we are going to have to work as a team if we all want to enjoy the victory.”

So Ozzie kept us in line even though the crowd was ready to go in another direction....

Downey wasn’t really too accurate when he was pouring the liquid blessing.  I saw one guy with a SC ball cap get his autographs erased by beer, and a young girl with long black hair took a beer shower that made her look a whole lot hotter.

I guess the point is, Downey is a crazy bastard (imagine Schwarzenneger in Conan the Barbarian) and Osgood is your mom.  They make a good team though.

Posted by Squiboda from Port Huron, MI on 11/17/08 at 12:42 PM ET

Monkey had a question in the last thread about penalties that my really light work day has allowed me to look into:

I’d like to seem some statistical analysis of the idea that there are a lot of PP’s and five on three’s given to the trailing team late in games.

While I didn’t look into any games other than Red Wings games and didn’t take time of game remaining left, I did look at all penalty calls (save for matching fighting majors) over the course of the season so far and found that the team that is trailing when a penalty is called is the beneficiary of that penalty just under 42% of the time while the team that is winning only gets the better end of a call slightly less than 30% of the time.

Granted, this is only over a 16-game stretch and it can be argued that the team that is trailing is hustling more and creating the kind of pressure that leads teams into taking more penalties.  But the numbers I got hinted at 97 more penalties given to the leading team over the course of an 82-game season.  That’s not the type of parity the NHL needs.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 11/17/08 at 01:03 PM ET

SHG can also mean 5-10 more
wins per season

And the intangible spinal snap you give the opponents. Killer instinct, ya know swarming at the smell of blood.
I am one to jump on Sammy, Mac n Malts for performance or lack thereof. A GR injection won’t turn the ship around in and of itself, the whole team psyche, mentality and work ethic are at question. That said, I’d still LOVE to see Helm or Leino have a lil tour of duty served with the big boys. Mac has a 2 way contract for this reason!!!!
Afriggingmen to the onus being on the man with the C on his sweater and Tick Tock. I was pretty verbal about Nik needing to slam the room door and raise hell a couple times this year… if that doesn’t happen til Cheli gets back in the line up… these bad habits and trends aren’t going to fix themselves. The C for the Wings is alot like the goalie, you don’t have to be the man every night, just be the man when needed. A little a$$ kicking in the room wouldn’t hurt right now, it’s not going to be needed all season but now wouldn’t be a bad time.
I am not sure if it’s lack of hard work on the little details, or the fear Paul mentioned… if it’s hard work I’d be surprised Uncle Mike isn’t whipping these sumbiches a$$es daily ‘bout that.
We recently beat 2 of the worst teams in the NHL by a slim to none margin of victory, I’m thoroughly not impressed even with the Mullet getting canned after we beat TB.

Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 11/17/08 at 01:42 PM ET

Our goalies are going to be as good as the system works.  I personally would not mind even if Howard was in net.  I have always liked Ozzie, but his game could fall off at any point--even this year.  Ozzie , Conklin, or Howard, does not matter.  If one of the top two gets injured from this point foward, I would not worry in the least if Jimmy came in.  Have to find out sometime.

Posted by Jeff from Loveland, CO on 11/17/08 at 01:59 PM ET

Somewhere, Hasek awakens from his slumber and begins a four-day stretching routine....

Correct Gabe! 

and that’s why we drink.....

Posted by Rumbear from Sandy Eggo on 11/17/08 at 02:41 PM ET

Management can only come down so hard on the players, as long as they keep winning.

I couldn’t disagree more. What do you think Scotty would do right now? He’d start benching under performers, and fast. It’s is the JOB of the management to get these guys playing the way they should be playing, regardless of the record. It’s already been proven that against determined and talented teams (SJ and Pitt come to mind) this kind of hockey isn’t going to cut it. I see alot of the same lack of passion that prevailed during the Kick to the Groin and it’s giving me The Fear. I haven’t yelled at my TV so much in November in years. They need to develop good habits now, so by April they’re second nature.

Posted by wingsfanindenver on 11/17/08 at 03:21 PM ET

I guess I’m having trouble getting very worked up about the defensive play of the team and Ozzie’s subpar performance so far.  I think the biggest reason for that is that we’re still winning.  And it’s November.  If we were sliding down the division/conference standings I’d be more concerned, but there is SO much time left to right the ship that there’s really no sense in getting worked up about it.  Certainly, I want to see the defense shored up and a little more discipline instilled in our play, but I don’t doubt it will happen in due time.  We forget that most other NHL teams go through slumps like this, sometimes for at least half a season before getting hot going into the playoffs.  The only difference is, we’ve managed to continue to win so far.

Do we really think Uncle Mike won’t press the right buttons to eventually get these guys going again?  Really???

Posted by Incognetis from Exile in Alabama on 11/17/08 at 04:20 PM ET

Yep, it just wouldn’t be another Red Wings season without a little goalie controversy.  At least we’re not speculating on the groins of these rugged, handsome men.

I’ll say this, though: Benching him doesn’t seem to have done Maltby any harm.  Ozzie’s got the same character to him, and he won’t be taking this the way Emery did (ya like that one, Sens Hobo?

Mr. Hockey captained the team for a few years.  You think on a bad night he reassured guys in the locker room?  Hell no.  It was fire & brimstone, damnation or salvation, blazing eyes and a demonic visage.  Not often, but when it was called for...Maybe Don Cherry is right.  Maybe this team is just too European.

So, the question becomes...do they want to vindicate him after all, or put the final nail in the coffin of NHL bigotry?  The next twenty games will decide just that.

Nice Dobbshead, Christpuncher.

Posted by AndrewFromAnnArbor from Fortress Europe on 11/17/08 at 04:25 PM ET