Thanks Okie.  Awesome job once again.  Glad to see you back.

Posted by WingsFanInBeanLand from Lidstrom's head telling him 1 more year on 02/02/10 at 12:07 PM ET

Can we trust James?

I say we can.

Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 02/02/10 at 12:12 PM ET

After a short but high-tempo practice Monday at HP Pavilion, Red Wings coach Mike Babcock said of his team, “Emotionally, we got to get refilled and get going.”

In my Uncle I trust

Posted by Datfan on 02/02/10 at 12:21 PM ET

Nice work, as usual Jeff….
What immediately caught my eye this morning…
The Sharks road record…
6 more wins than the Wings….(of the 10 more wins)
They are at home tonight, thats got to be good for the Wings, right.
One can only hope.

Posted by HockeyTownTodd on 02/02/10 at 12:22 PM ET

thats got to be good for the Wings, right.
One can only hope.
Posted by HockeyTownTodd from the “NOT QUITE DEAD PIRATE” on 02/02/10 at 12:22 PM ET

If it’s not good for the Wings, we can blame Stacey tonight Gramps. She’s going to the game

Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 02/02/10 at 12:30 PM ET

DET are 3-3-4 in their last 10 games, 3 wins with a roster that is steadily returning from LTIR.

So as we’re getting healthier we’re also getting worse. I brought this up last week and Paul in MB or RWBill correctly pointed out that it can take a few games for individual and group timing to get back to pre-injury levels. But 10 points in 10 games? This is a slump. A slump that rests all on the shoulders of the skaters.

This last 10 game stretch highlights for me what is the most frustrating part of the Season of The Symphony of Suck: Intangibles.

We now have a (relatively healthy) roster full of players that have won the Stanley Cup one or more times, that knows the sacrifice and hard work that it takes to win, and that is supported by an organization that from top to bottom has one purpose, winning.

I know intangibles are a bit of a sports cliche, but I believe in them and this team should be full of them and it should be worth a couple of points at least over any ten game stretch.

For some unknowable reason, intangibles have gone away. This team is not supposed blow third period leads in 4 straight games, This team is supposed to come from behind in the third period in four straight games.

We lost Hossa. So what? We didn’t have him for the 2008 cup run. Franzen’s been out nearly all season. So what? His big point streaks and output have always been in the playoffs, not the regular season.

Are the Wings losing because they lost the grit and character of Chelios? I know Cheli had lost more than a step, but I’d rather have Cheli protecting a 3rd period lead over Leech and Mebda any day.

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from Warm and sunny SoCal on 02/02/10 at 12:36 PM ET

Great job, Jeff. Glad your family made it safe and sound through the severe weather.

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from Warm and sunny SoCal on 02/02/10 at 12:44 PM ET

Franzen’s been out nearly all season. So what?

I think one thing we took for granted last year was the importance of Franzen’s “if no one else is going to score then fuch it, I’ll do it myself” goals.  And those were almost ALWAYS timely goals… playoffs, yes, but regular season also.  It might be impossible to understate the importance of his return, but I am afraid that after the long layoff he will need some time to settle in.  We need him to hit stride quickly and regain that scoring touch.

Posted by Incognetis from Delaware... Hi... I'm in... Delaware on 02/02/10 at 12:49 PM ET

The Wings are not clicking right now.  I don’t know why, but I do know that they simply aren’t.  If they get that fixed they find themselves comfortably in the playoff picture.  If they don’t get it fixed, then they are in for some decent tee times and a long summer.

Captain Obvious out.

Posted by ITDeuce from The Land of Ice and Snow on 02/02/10 at 12:54 PM ET

Flames and Rangers got the trade done: Olli Jokinen and Brandon Prust to the New York Rangers for Ales Kotalik and Christopher Higgins.

Wow WTF are the Flames doing. This can do nothing but help our cause. We must worry about those other guys creeping up from under us though.

Posted by Behind_Enemy_Lines from the Big House,January1,2013. already there bitches on 02/02/10 at 12:56 PM ET

We need him to hit stride quickly and regain that scoring touch.

That is something he is clearly capable of. The 2008 cup run with the concussion or whatever it was, when he only played in 16 games but had 13 goals, most of them game winners was one of the great performances ever.

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from Warm and sunny SoCal on 02/02/10 at 12:57 PM ET

  Franzen’s been out nearly all season. So what?

I think one thing we took for granted last year was the importance of Franzen’s “if no one else is going to score then fuch it, I’ll do it myself” goals.  And those were almost ALWAYS timely goals… playoffs, yes, but regular season also.  It might be impossible to understate the importance of his return, but I am afraid that after the long layoff he will need some time to settle in.  We need him to hit stride quickly and regain that scoring touch.

Posted by Incognetis from Exile in Alabama on 02/02/10 at 12:49 PM ET

A truer statement has never been uttered.  After every scramble to tie up a game that fails I can only ever think about how much I miss the Mule.

Posted by ITDeuce from The Land of Ice and Snow on 02/02/10 at 01:02 PM ET

So as we’re getting healthier we’re also getting worse. I brought this up last week and Paul in MB or RWBill correctly pointed out that it can take a few games for individual and group timing to get back to pre-injury levels.
Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich

This is true,
But*
And my personal observations reveal that the Defenseman regain their timing faster than the forwards when coming back off the IR.

*But:
They never looked very good when there were no injuries at the beginning of the season.

It may have been due to the rediculous pre-season schedule demanding platooning.
Yet,
that fact remains.

This seasons consistency…sloppy wholesale (5 skater) player changes…weak forecheck…predictable defensive lapses….forwards not challenging the defense on rushes in leiu of setting up the perimeter puck control….over and over we hear about getting it together next game, and it turns out only for an occasional game…..We have progressed from allowing 30+ (Oct-Nov) SOG, to 40+ (Dec-Jan) SOG….

Sorry, fans
The talent is there…...

I blame the coaching.

Posted by HockeyTownTodd on 02/02/10 at 01:04 PM ET

Are the Wings losing because they lost the grit and character of Chelios? I know Cheli had lost more than a step, but I’d rather have Cheli protecting a 3rd period lead over Leech and Mebda any day.

I think too many people are trying to read too many variables into things.

the Wings are losing for one reason and one reason only:  TURNOVERS. 

yeah, Bertuzzi - I’m looking at you.  although you’re not the only guilty one, you ARE the one who continues to do it consistently and can’t seem to get it through your meathead that you’re not Steve Yzerman or Pavel Datsyuk with some innate ability to put the puck where somebody is without looking.  you’re just flinging the puck blindly hoping to get lucky.

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 02/02/10 at 01:07 PM ET

Taz has caught the turnover bug bad the past few games as well.

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from Warm and sunny SoCal on 02/02/10 at 01:12 PM ET

I blame the coaching.
Posted by HockeyTownTodd

While the Chief is away the mice will play? 

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from Warm and sunny SoCal on 02/02/10 at 01:14 PM ET

Sorry, fans
The talent is there…...Just misdirected

Fixed

Posted by HockeyTownTodd on 02/02/10 at 01:15 PM ET

looking at the numbers, Rafalski has the most giveaways and the worst giveaway/takeaway ratio.  52/13. 

Datsyuk has the second most giveaways, but also has by far the most takeaways for a total +29.

Bertuzzi: 46 ga / 24 ta
Datsyuk: 52 ga / 79 ta

Bertuzzi has 6 fewer giveaways than Pavel, but 55 fewer takeaways for a net -22.  that’s a difference of 51 between two players who spent much of the season on the same line.  in other words, Bertuzzi spent his time coughing the puck up, and Datsyuk had to spend his time getting it back.

Datsyuk and Bertuzzi are the only forwards in the top 6 in giveaways, which makes sense.  defensemen simply have more pressure on them and are going to cough it up more.

Bertuzzi must work on his puck control or his presence will continue to be more harmful than helpful.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20102DETSASAll&sort=giveaways&viewName=rtssPlayerStats

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 02/02/10 at 01:23 PM ET

I blame the coaching…

Although…
if it is ugly tonight…

we can blame Stacey tonight Gramps. She’s going to the game
Posted by MOWingsfan19

Posted by HockeyTownTodd on 02/02/10 at 01:24 PM ET

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach

WTF…
Are you trying to set these guys up for a trade…?

Cherry picking stats that totally ignore total ice time is ridiculous. 

Christ, they are only numbers, and by the way there are only 10 of them.

Posted by HockeyTownTodd on 02/02/10 at 01:31 PM ET

Western Conference
Team             GP Pts
1. * San Jose   55 81  
2. * Chicago     55 78  
3. * Vancouver   54 70  
4. Phoenix       56 71  
5. Los Angeles 55 69  
6. Colorado     54 66  
7. Nashville     54 63  
8. Detroit         55 62  
9. Calgary       56 62  
10. Dallas       55 59  
11. Anaheim     56 59  
12. Minnesota   55 58  
13. St. Louis     55 57  
14. Columbus   57 53  
15. Edmonton   54 40  
* = Division Leader

Come on now, the only teams below us that even kinda have a chance are ANA and DAL.  Pinky is lucky, they have had a few good games in a row, that will not last. STL, hahahaha. That lame ass town in Ohio? Don’t think so. Yes, we need to stop stupid turnovers, I agree that is by far our biggest problem. Maybe they need coach Bombay to teach them the soft hands egg drill. Also Homer + Mule will do amazing things for our scoring issues.

Posted by Behind_Enemy_Lines from the Big House,January1,2013. already there bitches on 02/02/10 at 01:32 PM ET

Thanks, Okie.

My 2-cents:

Talent? yes
Desire? yes
Chemistry? not yet

Whatever you want to call it, for a number of reasons, the “regulars” have not been able to skate together in game after game and develop the confidence and swagger that we have grown to know and love as our Detroit Red Wings over the years.

I believe it’ll happen yet this year and before the opportunity is gone to make the playoffs.

That string of 8 “W"s in a row has got to happen soon. How ‘bout beginning tonight?

L.G.R.W.

Posted by stonehands-78 from the beginning ... a WingsFan, on 02/02/10 at 01:36 PM ET

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach

WTF…
Are you trying to set these guys up for a trade…?

Cherry picking stats that totally ignore total ice time is ridiculous. 

Christ, they are only numbers, and by the way there are only 10 of them.

they are IMPORTANT numbers.

and I didn’t mention time on ice because I assumed you, like me, already knew that Bertuzzi and Datsyuk are very close.

Bertuzzi: 17:10 per game, 22.9 shifts
Datsyuk: 20:22 per game, 26 shifts

so feel free to extrapolate Bertuzzi’s numbers up to Datsyuk’s ice time.  the gap will still be enormous.

I’m amazed that you’re trying to criticize a look at a PUCK CONTROL stat.  this is a PUCK CONTROL TEAM.  seems like a pretty good stat to look at.

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 02/02/10 at 01:36 PM ET

this is a PUCK CONTROL TEAM.

and by puck control you mean stretch pass/dump and chace, right?   eeooaw eeooaw (best impression of a donkey)

Posted by Behind_Enemy_Lines from the Big House,January1,2013. already there bitches on 02/02/10 at 01:44 PM ET

Where’s the stat on “Blind Passes While Bertuzzi Skates in Backwards Offside into the Offensive Zone”?

Posted by Primis on 02/02/10 at 01:55 PM ET

and by puck control you mean stretch pass/dump and chase, right?

Isn’t that the way Uncle Mike coached the Mighty Ducks, be they Cincinatti or Anaheim?

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from Warm and sunny SoCal on 02/02/10 at 01:56 PM ET

this is a PUCK CONTROL TEAM.  seems like a pretty good stat to look at.
Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 02/02/10 at 01:36 PM ET

Was a puck posession team is more like it of late. We’ve yet to dominate a game this year with the puck on the proverbial string other than the ass kicking 9 goal effort against the BJ’s.
Dump & chase isn’t our style & shouldn’t be, but at a point this year with 1/2 the roster being newbies… simplifying the style and or covering your ass by clearing the zone and or neutral ice and getting the puck deep seemed to help.
Is the long cherry picking stretch pass better? The blind Bertuzzi passes to a linesman or the wrong color sweater good puck management?
I’d prefer the puck goes deep in the opposition end and we get on a REAL forecheck when possible.
We seem to get the brain fart induced “yips” with our puck management in the form of bad blind passes, trying the 90 footers up the gut, cute little passes from the corners to the front of our own net, coughing up the puck under the slightest pressure from a forecheck.

Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 02/02/10 at 02:09 PM ET

Sorry, fans
The talent is there…...

I blame the coaching.

I do too Gramps. I do too.

Posted by monkey from here to Timbuktu on 02/02/10 at 02:16 PM ET

they are IMPORTANT numbers.
Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach

It appears they would be important numbers if they were broken down into:
PP ice time
quality of opposition
PK ice time
line mates
center ice
offensive zone
defensive zone

But they are not.

And regarding Rafalski, there was no mention of how often he was scrambling to cover up for a linemates boneheaded play.

Going by your origial post it would appear that Brad May is 10 times the player that these 3 guys are.

Risk management also has to be figured into the study…
Consider the Wings have been playing catch-up hockey most of the season.

Captain D had the best idea…
Just throw Cheli under the bus….makes as much sense.

Posted by HockeyTownTodd on 02/02/10 at 02:17 PM ET

cute little passes from the corners to the front of our own net

those have been a defensive staple of this team for quite some time.  if executed properly (mainly by the guy who is supposed to be standing there waiting for the puck) they are highly effective.  it eliminates the chance for the other team to block the up-the-boards clearing attempt, maintains possession of the puck, and gives the d-man a clear view of the ice to make an outlet pass.

that being said, again the key is proper execution.  whenever the puck is in the corner and I see TPH standing there in front of the crease, I know he’s going to get the puck and make a solid pass out of the zone.  when it’s anyone else, I pucker up a bit.

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 02/02/10 at 02:18 PM ET

I said it last game and I’ll say it again… nothing makes me happier than a low percentage pass that doesn’t click.  Seems to happen lots this year.

And not trying to jump on the pile or anything, but Detroit is not a puck possession team this year.  They aren’t.  They might be in the future, but right now they aren’t.

Posted by ITDeuce from The Land of Ice and Snow on 02/02/10 at 02:20 PM ET

Captain D had the best idea…
Just throw Cheli under the bus….makes as much sense.

I didn’t throw him under the bus. I said they miss his tenacious D. Cheli would die before he let a team he was on give up third period lead in four consecutive games.

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from Warm and sunny SoCal on 02/02/10 at 02:20 PM ET

coughing up the puck under the slightest pressure from a forecheck.

Seen that too many times this year (looking at Big E(rror).

The Wings are mentally gassed, so says Uncle Mike - I believe him.

Posted by Jeff OKWingnut from Quest for 12 on 02/02/10 at 02:21 PM ET

The Wings are mentally gassed, so says Uncle Mike - I believe him.

Don’t think, it can only hurt the ball club.

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from Warm and sunny SoCal on 02/02/10 at 02:28 PM ET

It appears they would be important numbers if they were broken down into:
PP ice time
quality of opposition
PK ice time
line mates
center ice
offensive zone
defensive zone

But they are not.

considering Bertuzzi and Datsyuk spent a large portion of their ice time playing TOGETHER, those stats cancel out.

nit pick all you want.  there is no ignoring that Bertuzzi’s (and this teams) turnovers are killing them.

And regarding Rafalski, there was no mention of how often he was scrambling to cover up for a linemates boneheaded play.

really?  so I didn’t specifically say that it’s logical for defensemen to have more giveaways because of their role on the ice?  hmmmm….look again.

Going by your origial post it would appear that Brad May is 10 times the player that these 3 guys are.

when did I say that I’m using this stat as an overall gauge of the quality of the player?  first off, I didn’t.  second off, May has 7 giveaways and 3 takeaways…which points to the fact that he has far less ice time than either and has the puck less when he IS on the ice.  you tried to bring up TOI and I showed that Datsyuk and Bertuzzi are very close, so your little Brad May example is utterly useless.

Risk management also has to be figured into the study…
Consider the Wings have been playing catch-up hockey most of the season.

Captain D had the best idea…
Just throw Cheli under the bus….makes as much sense.

no, it doesn’t.  considering that one of the biggest areas this team needs to make progress is in limiting turnovers (i.e. puck control) it makes PERFECT sense to look at these stats for two of the players on the #1 line.

it’s not like there is a few-takeaway or few-giveaway difference between the two.  anybody who watches the games sees that Bertuzzi’s giveaways are ridiculously amateur and that he does it a lot - at the wrong time.  so couple this knowledge with seeing some actual numbers and it supports what we see on the ice - Bertuzzi needs to improve at this part of his game.

watch the game tonight, and pay specific attention to Bertuzzi.  when he has the puck and crosses into the offensive zone (or is passed the puck in the offensive zone) start counting.  make a mental note of how many seconds pass before the other team has the puck, and how often this happens.

now watch Datsyuk.  when he loses the puck, how often does he get it back?  does he just give up and skate away from the play like Bertuzzi?

the difference between these two top-line players couldn’t be any more dramatic.  ignore it if you choose.

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 02/02/10 at 02:28 PM ET

Hey, remember when the Wings went through a terrible set of games in early 2008?

Hey, remember when the Wings went through a terrible set of games in early 2009?

Yeah, I know… the Wings can hardly afford that bad stretch of games considering where we’re at in the standings.  I didn’t say I’m not worried; I just think that replacing Babcock is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. 

Does anybody want this kool-aid or do I have to drink it all myself?

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 02/02/10 at 02:30 PM ET

Does anybody want this kool-aid or do I have to drink it all myself?

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 02/02/10 at 02:30 PM ET

Is it grape?

Posted by Behind_Enemy_Lines from the Big House,January1,2013. already there bitches on 02/02/10 at 02:32 PM ET

We all should be careful when labeling a game dump and chase.
There is throwing the puck deep for a player change, which occurs in todays game every 45 seconds, or in the case of a PP or late 3rd period often every 15 seconds.  It is almost a necessity to get the far winger off the ice.
Then, of course there is the safe dump, on a broken play, or when forecheck pressure delays the pass up and all the forwards are standing still at the blue line.

Very few teams are successful at trying to incorporate the old puck control game the Wings had under Bowman.  The Wings are consistently victims of teams with a vigorous forecheck forcing errors on our half of the ice.

And
by the way….

A vigorous forecheck, when it comes to the Wings, seems to be only a wet dream.

Posted by HockeyTownTodd on 02/02/10 at 02:33 PM ET

The Road to 94 begins tonight, 14-9-4 for a reasonable chance at the playoffs (not guaranteed).

1/3 of the season remaining, 27 games.

.600, 32 points.

Considering game #1 on that road is at the best team in the league should be disconcerting, but somehow this Enigma of a Red Wings team has played some very good games against top teams, so I’m not counting them out but would be more confident if there was some consistent scoring to 3 or 4 goals a game.

“We’ve gotten better, but we’re not as good.”

Posted by RWBill from the Land of 12 in 12. on 02/02/10 at 02:33 PM ET

A vigorous forecheck, when it comes to the Wings, seems to be only a wet dream.

We wish the Wings PP was a wet dream. The whiskey dick PP can’t even do that.

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from Warm and sunny SoCal on 02/02/10 at 02:36 PM ET

Is it grape?

Posted by Behind_Enemy_Lines from w/a box o matches behind the chickenhawk bandwagon on 02/02/10 at 02:32 PM ET

This batch is.  I have another batch for our game tomorrow night against Anaheim I thought up in favor of Corey Perry.  It tastes like a mix between fruit punch and *#$%@&.  I call it ‘Sucker Punch’.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 02/02/10 at 02:39 PM ET

Hey, remember when the Wings went through a terrible set of games in early 2008?

Hey, remember when the Wings went through a terrible set of games in early 2009?

Yeah, I know… the Wings can hardly afford that bad stretch of games considering where we’re at in the standings.  I didn’t say I’m not worried; I just think that replacing Babcock is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Does anybody want this kool-aid or do I have to drink it all myself?

yer outta yer mind.  Babcock is a HUGE REASON the Wings are even sniffing at a playoff spot right now.  he is EXCELLENT at coaching rag-tag groups of mostly young unproven players.  look at the team he had in 2003 when they knocked out that mighty Red Wings team.

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 02/02/10 at 02:39 PM ET

watch the game tonight, and pay specific attention to Bertuzzi.  when he has the puck and crosses into the offensive zone (or is passed this happens.

Watch the game tonight and consider that if Beruzzi is out there….
It is a coaching decision.

Posted by HockeyTownTodd on 02/02/10 at 02:39 PM ET

Damn, I knew I should have pluralized assholes.  I always forget that one.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 02/02/10 at 02:40 PM ET

yer outta yer mind.  Babcock is a HUGE REASON the Wings are even sniffing at a playoff spot right now.  he is EXCELLENT at coaching rag-tag groups of mostly young unproven players.

Yeah, that’s kinda what I mean by saying replacing Babcock would be a permanent solution to a temporary problem… slumps happen no matter who’s coaching.  Sorry I didn’t make that more clear.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 02/02/10 at 02:43 PM ET

look at the team he had in 2003 when they knocked out that mighty Red Wings team.

Look at the team he had in 2004, when all the veterans were gone.
Take a good look.

Posted by HockeyTownTodd on 02/02/10 at 02:45 PM ET

by the way, didn’t the Wings just have that bad stretch of games?  I mean they’ve been shaky all season but wasn’t the past two weeks the worst stretch so far?

ironic, but not at all unexpected, that it coincides with the return of some of the injured players.  chemistry need to develop again.

for anyone who doesn’t quite grasp the importance of chemistry and determination in hockey, read this

ZURICH DOWNS BLACKHAWKS TO CAPTURE VICTORIA TROPHY

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 02/02/10 at 02:49 PM ET

My biggest concern regarding the coaching has been with McCrimmon for the last 17 months, although Babcocks shortcomings seem to be surfacing and staying at warp speed.

Posted by HockeyTownTodd on 02/02/10 at 02:50 PM ET

watch the game tonight, and pay specific attention to Bertuzzi.  when he has the puck and crosses into the offensive zone (or is passed this happens.

Watch the game tonight and consider that if Beruzzi is out there….
It is a coaching decision.

that’s a ridiculous criticism of Babcock.  no coach has a team of Datsyuks that he can have on the ice at all times.

consider the fact that Babcock has to play Babcock because KEN HOLLAND signed him.  I mean, really.  those kind of statements are idiotic.  these are professional athletes.  it’s perfectly reasonable to look at what they’re doing on the ice and evaluate where they need to improve.

for example…Datsyuk needs to improve on taking the puck to the net and shooting it, rather than staying on the outside looking to make a play to someone else.

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 02/02/10 at 02:51 PM ET

look at the team he had in 2003 when they knocked out that mighty Red Wings team.

Look at the team he had in 2004, when all the veterans were gone.
Take a good look.

OMG

didn’t you say the same crap when I posted this a couple weeks ago?  I never said the veterans aren’t important.  but depth beyond the veterans is important, too - and that year’s Wings team was miles ahead of the Anaheim team in depth, yet they crushed us.  why?  COACHING.

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 02/02/10 at 02:53 PM ET