Actually, Chief, history tells us that he would have developed into a pretty valuable player in St. Louis.

Then he would have left to pick up a Cup somewhere else.

Posted by Gabriel from San Diego, CA on 06/09/08 at 03:36 AM ET

suck it up Blues fans. If things go well you might make the playoffs in five years or so. Then you can watch Legace fall apart…

Posted by Pharazon from England on 06/09/08 at 04:52 AM ET

If things go well you might make the playoffs in five years or so

what, do they let teams tally up their points from previous seasons to try and qualify?

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 06/09/08 at 08:01 AM ET

Actually, Chief, history tells us that he would have developed into a pretty valuable player in St. Louis.

Then he would have left to pick up a Cup somewhere else.

I still can’t decide what’s funnier—the original story, or this comment.

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 06/09/08 at 08:23 AM ET

a glaring stat from the Detroit News’ “Tale of the Tape” http://www.forecaster.ca/detnews/hockey/tott.cgi?Det

in the regular season, the team leaders were Pavel Datsyuk at +41 and Sidney Crosby at +18.  how could Malkin, with 106 points (47G 59A) not be better than +18?!

the Wings, in 80 seasons, have been in the Stanley Cup Finals 22 times (28%).  Pittsburgh has made it twice out of 39 seasons (5%).

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 06/09/08 at 08:34 AM ET

A few more tears for the Mighty Miss….
Maybe we could have picked him up at the deadline and had STL on the hook for his salary for the balance of the season & he could score in them in the SCPO’s. Oh wait, that was Shanny wasn’t it?

Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 06/09/08 at 08:52 AM ET

I’ve been thinking about this, what with all the stories on the Wings’ awesome player development, and I wonder if guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg, never mind Hudler, Franzen, Filpula, Homer, etc., would’ve developed into the great players they are today, if they’d gone elsewhere.

This boils down to a nature vs. nurture discussion, I spose, but I can’t help feeling being in the Wings’ organ-I-zation helped- and continues to help- these players’ development immensely.

We’ll never know, obviously, but I have a hunch at least a few of those names- and you can throw Kronwall and several others in there, too- would not have developed into the solid NHL’ers they are today had they started their careers elsewhere…  Which is both testimony as to the quality of the Wings’ organ-I-zation- top to bottom, from Kenny to Sobotka (;))- and, for Wings fans everywhere, reason to look forward to the future. 

Now, if we can just convince Derek Meech he’s the second coming of Nick Lidstrom…

PS- security code - “51new.”  QE-MF-D.

Posted by mudshark on 06/09/08 at 09:28 AM ET

I don’t want this to take away from Anderson’s reputation. Because he’s done his job better than anyone has in the last 10 years or so.

But he admits it himself, if he and the Wings knew that Zetterberg and Datsyuk were gonna be this good, they would have taken them in the first round. Great scout..yes, lots of luck….yes.

Late rounds in the NHL draft are somewhat of a crapshoot. It’s almost more impressive to pick above average players in the second and third round, where all the teams have seen them, and you are able to take players rated in the 4th round or later, and risk a high pick on them.

Posted by Beaton from Canada on 06/09/08 at 10:13 AM ET

Pittsburgh has made it twice out of 39 seasons (5%).

Hmm?

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 06/09/08 at 10:19 AM ET

Mudshark, not to toot my own horn (I do quite enough of that in the privacy of my own home), but I said this a while ago.  Needless to say, I agree—the drafting is part of it, the development is the bigger part though:

Every journalist seems to talk about how the Wings’ scouts ‘find’ these late-round draft steals: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom, Ericsson, but I think that’s not as much a credit to the scouting as they think it is (though the scouting department does do a bang-up job).  I think it’s a product of what is among the league’s best, if not the absolute best, development programs.  The program takes players that show potential, then get them to develop that potential until they’re ready to bring it to the NHL level—it doesn’t rush them.  Phil Kessel I think is a prime example of how not to do it—a real promising kid thrown straight into the NHL and expected to develop into a first-line forward there.  When he doesn’t because it’s the wrong environment, they give up on him and his career is spoiled.  If Zetterberg or Datsyuk had been drafted by another team and thrown in at the deep end like he was, neither of them would be the players they are today, and they’d end up looking like, well, sixth- and seventh-round picks.  Filppula was supposed to have another year in the AHL, and only got the permanent call-up after Greg Johnson failed his physical.  If he had spent that extra year with the Griffs, he probably wouldn’t be having such an inconsistent and rocky season this year.

I guess what I’m saying is that the Wings’ system doesn’t so much find late-draft gems, or diamonds in the rough that are then cut and polished, as the media seems to think.  Rather, it finds if not coal then graphite or fullerenes which get the proper treatment until they become diamonds.

Posted by AndrewFromAnnArbor from your local GNC, developing beefcakes on 06/09/08 at 10:22 AM ET

Actually, the Blues might still not have taken Datsyuk - he probably would have been tagged as too small or too soft or too European even if the scout had seen him (or the scout would have gotten laughed at the same way the team laughed at the scout who wanted to talk about Kronwall).

Possibly one of the biggest factors in development is that Detroit has had the luxury not to rush anyone to the big leagues.  Some players can be tossed in and do fine (Patrick Kane certainly hasn’t been hurt by skipping the minors, for example - ditto Toews, Crosby, Ovechkin, and some of the Oilers youngsters have done quite well in limited roles) but it is more likely that a young players needs a few years to figure out how to be a professional.

St. Louis had a young player whose name escapes me at the moment that they had on the Blues roster despite the fact that he was sitting in the press box most of the time because the coaching staff said he had problems with maturity - things like showing up on time and paying attention in practice.  I remember thinking “if he isn’t ready to be a professional at 18 years old then why isn’t he in the minors learning how to be a professional so when you put him on the Blues roster he can actually do something to help the team?”

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 06/09/08 at 10:25 AM ET

Mudshark,
I’ve had that same nature versus nurture conversation (albeit with myself during Wings games in the man cave).... I just don’t know the answer.
BUT, guys like Cleary who are akin to the Phoenix arising from the ashes (of what was a career filled promise but no on ice performance) have to be some indication. As Tick Tock says, it’s a culture. A couple years in the culture has Danny an important cog to the roster & lined up to stick around for 5 more years.
Add a consistent coaching philosophy & a plan to implement a system all add up to needing bodies to fill roles. You can hire an able body to fill a role, but developing someone to be that role seems to work quite well.
And in all things, it’s good to be good… better to be lucky. I’ll take a little of both.

Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 06/09/08 at 10:26 AM ET

I think in Cleary’s case in particular he had gotten to a point where he realized he wasn’t going to skate by just on talent and was going to have to work to extend his hockey career - any team could have had him at the time, but it was a matter of which team was going to take a chance that he wasn’t going to be a bust.  Detroit wasn’t afraid to give him a second chance, and maybe some other teams were.

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 06/09/08 at 10:32 AM ET

Baroque,
I forget the first name, but that player you’re referring to is last name Perron.
He’s talented but yes, needs the mental maturity.
I heard Andy Murray talking about having to pull him aside in practice a few times for making gestures at Walt (aka Keith Fatchuck) for not being able to handle passes etc etc etc…
Andy said something along the lines “you raise your arms and voice at Walt again and you’ll find 240lbs of a big angry man on your door step”.
I can read between those lines, hope the kid can too. JD’s high on the kid too, but said he has no issue with him learning from the press box or on the ice.
Hate to say it, but the Taves & Kane show’s fun to watch too (ducking under my desk after saying that).
AO is still my fav non Wing of this next tide of kids…. he’s a freaking madman all around.

Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 06/09/08 at 10:33 AM ET

better to be lucky. I’ll take a little of both.

But you kind of make your own luck.  As the article said about Andersson, was it ‘lucky’ that the flight he couldn’t take was the third time he was going to see Pavs?  I think the luck only enters into it in a more than tangential sense when you get to the draft table.  It’s just lucky that Datsyuk was still available when our turn was up in the sixth round.

As for Cleary, I still think the culture, especially the work ethic instilled by Mike Babcock, had a lot to do with the resurrection of his career.  I think he might have still been floating if he hadn’t been exposed to that.  A lazy player doesn’t buck up by himself because he’s out of a job—if that wss true, there’d be dozens of busts still playing in the League.

And David Perron’s a good player, still with the potential to be.  I didn’t know about his shenanigans, but let’s face it, if you were a great player like him on a team like the Blues, you’d get frustrated too.

Posted by AndrewFromAnnArbor from hiding under the draft table on 06/09/08 at 10:53 AM ET

Anyone see the hilarious comment on the Free Press website after the Hakan Andersson story?  Some Lions fan writes “Does Hakan Andersson know anything about American football?”

Awesome.

Posted by TDeters on 06/09/08 at 10:59 AM ET

I didn’t know about his shenanigans, but let’s face it, if you were a great player like him on a team like the Blues, you’d get frustrated too.

wait, are we talking about Brett Hull?

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=4035

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 06/09/08 at 11:12 AM ET