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Naysayers Beware
by IwoCPO on 11/02/09 at 07:15 PM ET
Comments (113)
Whew. It’s November 2nd and there the Wings sit…deep, deep, deep down in the 11 spot. Obviously, the playoffs are out of the question. Undoubtedly, we should consider the merits of building through high draft picks. Consecutive 1 or 2’s. We should really lend credence to the inevitable talk of franchise moves to places like Kansas City or Hamilton.
The fun is over. Puppies will frolic no more.
But wait…
They’re clearly in deep, deep trouble when you look at the standings and find them … uh … four points behind the Blackhawks for first place in the Central Division.
I’ve been known to throw some darts at Jamie Samuelsen. Maybe has something to do with the “ie” in his first name. I’m not sure. But..hell yes.
Four points behind Chicago after a month that has nearly led to 19 new rehab admissions well before 1 November? Four points back after a month that just plain sucked.
Sucked by our standards, that is.
Maybe it’s naive, but I view the Calgary game as an indication of what this team continues to be capable of. I view the Calgary game as yet another example of what the Wings can do when really challenged by an “elite” team.
Yes, October has given you a legitimate reason to be skeptical, if not outright concerned. But it’s November 2nd. November. 2nd. Samuelsen’s got it right.
The Wings have been awful, but they’re still within striking distance. When they start playing better, which is inevitable, they’ll be a team to be reckoned with in the division. That might not sound like much, given where this team expects to be. But when the suggestion is made that they might miss the playoffs altogether, it’s something that needs to be pointed out.
Not just within the division. The teams ahead of the Wings right now in the West? LA, Phoenix, Dallas, Vancouver, Denver, Chicago, San Jose, Columbus, Edmonton, Calgary. You want to proclaim the Wings won’t compete for the conference title? Give me four teams who will finish ahead of them and why. No…give me two.
And then, of those two, tell me why they’re better. Chicago and San Jose? That’s what you’re thinking isn’t it? How much money would you put down on either beating Detroit in a seven-gamer?
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Comments
Anyone that wants to question the Wings’ playoff chances, right to a conference championship series, well ... talk to this guy:
The Babcock Death Stare
Posted by stonehands-78 from the beginning ... a WingsFan, on 11/02/09 at 08:06 PM ET
I like our chances better than the rest of the West. It’s only November with 5 more months of hockey ahead.
I don’t think any of the other teams mentioned are as good as the Wings regardless of the slow start. The Wings are going to be there. No doubt in my mind.
Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!
Posted by Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit on 11/02/09 at 08:09 PM ET
I’d rather be four points back and just starting to come into form in early November than four points up and waiting for the other shoe to drop.
It’s going to be a challenging week with Boston and San Jose games looming and then a possible trap coming on Saturday with Toronto coming up. Six points this week is probably not as meaningful as everybody would make it out to be, but if it would give us some respite from the crap that’s pouring in about how the Dynasty is crumbling, I’d take that half-dozen.
Win ‘em pretty, win ‘em ugly; just win ‘em.
Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 11/02/09 at 08:15 PM ET
Would anyone familiar with the paysite (i.e. the forbidden site; the one that causes Happy Smiles) be able to answer a couple questions?
I’m going to be out of town (oot) tomorrow for the start of the game but want to take my laptop so I can watch & LB. I’m guessing I can find an unsecured wireless modem to piggyback off of at my oot location but I’m not sure what impact this may have on my account. I know when you hit 3 IPs, you’re cancelled. Not good. So I want to make sure I can do what I plan to do without jeopardizing my account.
Is it a matter as simple as clicking on the “IP Exceptions” when I logon from the oot location and clicking “Add Exceptions”? (I’m assuming the IP I’m on at the moment will be automatically listed?)
And does this effect my home (original? / primary?) IP? (Do I need to do anything when I get back home for the end of the game and logon, such as “Update Exception”? Or just logon as normal, allow it to recognize my home IP and let the exception expire?)
Any help would be appreciated.
(Feel free to PM me if we want to keep this off the comments.)
Posted by stonehands-78 from the beginning ... a WingsFan, on 11/02/09 at 08:28 PM ET
“I am raising the stakes right now, ... If this is a poker game, I am shoving my chips right in the middle of the table. I am raising the ante. Anybody who wants out, can get out. This team is going to the playoffs. OK? This team is going to the playoffs.”
Posted by pgoody on 11/02/09 at 08:28 PM ET
What we’re capable of and what we’ve seen for say all but 2 games have been worlds apart this year to date.
SJ has a roster full of talent, so does CHI. Calgary supposedly has one of the best blue lines in hockey. I still won’t say any of those teams are better. Have they won more games to date this season, yup sure have. Playoffs start like this coming Spring n stuff, not November 2nd. Our killer instinct will come with some relative health and cohesive 5 man play… speaking of killer instinct.
Shot through the heart is a baaaaaaad (bad meaning bad) Bon Jovi song, but music to a hunters ears. This team has that same killer instinct, just needs to sharpen its senses and broadheads. Lookie at my post mortem findings from a little killer instinct….
Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 11/02/09 at 08:28 PM ET
It has been a Wing tradition to show up flat for the first home game after a long road trip. Should that be the case tomorrow, you can look forward to several more weeks of Wing bashing from Media around the league.
If they play like they did in Calgary, many of the naysayers will immediately asume a low profile.
Wally’s time off will affect the wings a good deal more than Franzen’s.
Everyone steps forward and plays highter than normal, but after a few games,
They can’t keep up that pace and Fil’s absence will be very noticeable.
A very tough schedule this monh.
Posted by HockeyTownTodd on 11/02/09 at 08:43 PM ET
........after a month that has nearly led to 19 new rehab admissions
Yeah, I was really startin’ to worry ‘bout ya’.
Posted by Lindas1st from New England on 11/02/09 at 08:46 PM ET
Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 11/02/09 at 08:28 PM ET
Nice shooting, MO.
Looks just like the one from a 400+ lb. black bear a friend of mine bagged east of Pancake Bay on Lake Superior north of Sault Ste. Marie, Canada, 20 years ago. Only access was by foot trail appox. 1-1/4 miles back in the bush. Took us 4 trips to backpack that big boy out. The head & hide alone (we kept it intact to make a rug) estimated at over 150 lb.s. He never knew what hit him - grunted on impact, walked 10 paces, fell down, breathed heavy a couple times, let out a death moan and went silent. 45 seconds tops. Amazing what a well placed sharp broadhead can do to such a large animal. We did all the scouting and baiting by ourselves. Camped out at the bay Provential Park before it was officially open in the spring. Wasn’t my trophy but was one of the best bow hunting experiences I’ve ever had.
Killer Insinct = Skate. To. The. Throat.
Posted by stonehands-78 from the beginning ... a WingsFan, on 11/02/09 at 08:48 PM ET
Yeah, I was really startin’ to worry ‘bout ya’.
Posted by Lindas1st from New England on 11/02/09 at 08:46 PM ET
What happened to “I’m out, see you at the LB”.
What a douche canoe JR. Seriously, choke on it Pen(i)s lover.
Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 11/02/09 at 09:13 PM ET
Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 11/02/09 at 08:28 PM ET
Well done MO.
Oh oh oh, Jamie’s crying. Sorry couldn’t resist. And another thing Jamie failed to note: Yes the Wings are only 4 pts back, but the Wings also have played one fewer game.
GP, W, L, OTL, PTS
Chicago Blackhawks 13 8 4 1 17
Columbus Blue Jackets 13 7 5 1 15
Detroit Red Wings 12 5 4 3 13
BOS 6-6-1
SJS 10-4-1 (SJS play at CBJ on WED)
TOR 1-7-4
Be nice for the Wings to take all 6 pts this week, at a minimum they need to take 4.
Posted by Jeff OKWingnut from Quest for 12 on 11/02/09 at 09:35 PM ET
What happened to “I’m out, see you at the LB”.
I had a feeling you were watching.
Posted by Lindas1st from New England on 11/02/09 at 09:38 PM ET
The fact you’re still clinging on and reading every post is a sad commentary about Mommy’s precious first child, Richard.
Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 11/02/09 at 09:46 PM ET
Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 11/02/09 at 09:46 PM ET
LMAO, you’re such a dope. For a hunter you are sure easy prey.
Posted by Lindas1st from New England on 11/02/09 at 09:53 PM ET
Oh, and by the way, count me in the
outright concerned
camp. Wings have to develope a “somewhat” consistent pattern of solid “D” and goaltending before I join the “skeptical” camp.
Although the Wings are only 4 pts off the Division lead, they are still only 1 meager point above .500 hockey.
CGY was a good game, and may prove to be the turning point. But, the Wings managed to play a whole lotta UGLY hockey before that. They gotta get some consistent good play before I jump off the “FIRE McCRIMMON” soapbox.
Posted by Jeff OKWingnut from Quest for 12 on 11/02/09 at 10:00 PM ET
I agree with the glass half-full perspective here, but the Wings are also 4 points ahead of being dead last in the Western Conference. We are still looking at a small sample size.
Posted by pilgrim from the ice at the bottom of the world on 11/02/09 at 10:00 PM ET
Nice left ventricle shot MO.. Now do the same to Richard (Lindas 1st) and the 19 will immortalize ya.
Saturday’s game was a step in the right direction. This team is not going to quit because of a couple of long term injuries to 2 of our elite players. After that abortion of a month , I am very suprised to only be 4 point out of 1st.
I have been with this team since birth. My comfirmation name was Marcel and the next year that bastard left us. I’ll never jump off this bandwagon.
Posted by cigar_nurse from Greenville South Cakalakee on 11/02/09 at 10:01 PM ET
For a hunter you are sure easy prey.
That’s the gayest thing I’ve ever read. (Or as you might spell it: “herd”.)
Posted by Triple Deke Tyler from Lansing on 11/02/09 at 10:03 PM ET
Sorry that’s a left atrium shot. it’s been a long day. Until tomorrow.
Posted by cigar_nurse from Greenville South Cakalakee on 11/02/09 at 10:06 PM ET
They gotta get some consistent good play before I jump off the “FIRE McCRIMMON” soapbox.
I’d stay on that bitch regardless of their play.
Posted by mrfluffy from Long Beach on 11/02/09 at 10:09 PM ET
Although the Wings are only 4 pts off the Division lead, they are still only 1 meager point above .500 hockey.
Except that we’re NOT above .500.
We’re two games below it. 5 wins, 7 losses. Our winning percentage is .417.
Why does nobody understand winning percentage?!?
Posted by Garth on 11/02/09 at 10:34 PM ET
Why does nobody understand winning percentage?!?
Probably because Points % is a better indicator of how we’re doing as you can still be rewarded for a loss. . . as in our case. Which is why the person said we were one POINT over .500.
Posted by halomasterd4n on 11/02/09 at 10:43 PM ET
We’re two games below it. 5 wins, 7 losses. Our winning percentage is .417. Why does nobody understand winning percentage?!?
You may punch my mother in the ‘gine, or set fire to my village, but you shall never question the Okie.
Posted by Triple Deke Tyler from Lansing on 11/02/09 at 10:46 PM ET
Probably because Points % is a better indicator of how we’re doing as you can still be rewarded for a loss. . . as in our case. Which is why the person said we were one POINT over .500.
Except that points percentage is not a stat. It’s a made up thing that means nothing.
And how exactly is points % a better indicator of how we’re doing?
Seems to me that 5 wins and 7 losses in 12 games is a better indicator than “we got more than half the points we could have got because some of our losses we only losses because they became losses in overtime or the shootout”?
Using points percentage to claim success is such a Leastern Conference thing to do…
Posted by Garth on 11/02/09 at 10:59 PM ET
Posted by Garth on 11/02/09 at 10:59 PM ET
Dude, come on.
Posted by Triple Deke Tyler from Lansing on 11/02/09 at 11:17 PM ET
overtime points include the entire league not just the east…why do people say the west is better overall. the only kind of evidence is when the conferences face off in the playoffs and the west has no significant advantage, if any, in terms of cups won. i love hockey and i read all blogs not just thepensblog…and its not like this is an only red wings blog there are posts that involve the penguins too.
we are a little obsessed since its fun to follow rivals…watching the wings struggle is great to see something that doesnt happen often
Posted by sean from da burgh on 11/02/09 at 11:39 PM ET
[I]
Posted by Garth on 11/02/09 at 10:59 PM ET
[/I]
can’t we just blame Gary.Ass & move on?
Posted by creasemonkey from Murph's flask on 11/03/09 at 12:52 AM ET
I’ve been known to throw some darts at Jamie Samuelsen. Maybe has something to do with the “ie” in his first name.
I agree, he should change his name to ‘Jam.’
As long as we get Wally and Mule back for the playoffs in reasonably effective game shape, I’m happy. Still think McCrimmon needs to go, but hey, I’m no pharmacist.
Posted by AndrewFromAnnArbor from Fortress Europe on 11/03/09 at 12:52 AM ET
I’ve been known to throw some darts at Jamie Samuelsen. Maybe has something to do with the “ie” in his first name.
I agree, he should change his name to ‘Jam.’
He also needs to drop the “uelsen”.
Posted by monkey from here to Timbuktu on 11/03/09 at 05:26 AM ET
In the real world, the Wings are 5-7. But they don’t play in the real world; they play in Gary’s world. In Gary’s world, they’re 5-4-3. Points percentage, in Gary’s world, is not a “made up thing that means nothing”, it’s a pretty good way of measuring the success of a team.
That’s where we’re at. Gary’s world.
Posted by monkey from here to Timbuktu on 11/03/09 at 05:30 AM ET
That’s the gayest thing I’ve ever read. (Or as you might spell it: “herd”.)
Coming from Tyler, that is saying a whole lot.
Posted by monkey from here to Timbuktu on 11/03/09 at 05:31 AM ET
Hey MOWings,
That’s some nice shooting. When I was a kid, my dad took a buck with a boy and it severed it’s spine. Simply amazing watching the arrow hit and the having the animal drop on the spot…with a bow no less.
I get to go Mulie hunting out in the Badlands on Friday…I am NOT looking forward to the hiking…and the (hopefully) pain of dragging out our prey…but that’s why we do it right?
Posted by 42jeff from Minot, North Dakota on 11/03/09 at 06:48 AM ET
When I was a kid, my dad took a buck with a boy and it severed it’s spine.
I know you meant “bow”, but the Lord of the Flies mental imagery that sentence brought up is just too perfect.
Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 11/03/09 at 08:39 AM ET
That’s where we’re at. Gary’s world.
LEMME OUT LEMME OUT LEMME OUT LEMME OUT LEMME OUT LEMME OUT LEMME OUT LEMME OUT LEMME OUT LEMME OUT LEMME OUT LEMME OUT !!!
Lord of the Flies mental imagery
Ahhhhhhhh…that’s better.
Posted by AndrewFromAnnArbor from Fortress Europe on 11/03/09 at 08:45 AM ET
I get to go Mulie hunting out in the Badlands on Friday…I am NOT looking forward to the hiking…and the (hopefully) pain of dragging out our prey…but that’s why we do it right?
Posted by 42jeff from Minot, North Dakota on 11/03/09 at 06:48 AM ET
G’Luck Jeff. I’ll be sore for a few days from dragging, make me feel old for 35.
Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 11/03/09 at 09:42 AM ET
Why does nobody understand winning percentage?!?
Because Garth, I wasn’t addressing winning %. If you had bothered to actually read both of my prior posts, I was specifically addressing points. In Gary’s World points are all that matters in determining Division Winner plus the remaining 5 spots per conference. Points are counted first [unless of course teams are tied with points at the end of the regular season, in which case winning % is one of the tiebreakers].
Since the Wings current record is 12 g/, 5 W, 4 L, 3 OTL, 13 pts - - they have managed to earn exactly one point in excess of half the maximum points they could have earned.
Thanks Tyler, hope all is as good as can be with your family.
Posted by Jeff OKWingnut from Quest for 12 on 11/03/09 at 09:44 AM ET
Why does nobody understand winning percentage?!?
Probably because Points % is a better indicator of how we’re doing as you can still be rewarded for a loss. . . as in our case. Which is why the person said we were one POINT over .500.
Posted by halomasterd4n on 11/02/09 at 10:43 PM ET
“mercy f*ck” points awarded for a loss are just a marketing gimmick, and should not in any way be considered when evaluating a team
What exactly are your rewards for an overtime loss in the playoffs?
Posted by HockeyTownTodd on 11/03/09 at 10:01 AM ET
What exactly are your rewards for an overtime loss in the playoffs?
Well that’s because they don’t rely on the gimmick of a shootout in the playoffs. And the league is saying that if you lose in a shootout it’s not quite the same as losing outright. C’mon look at how bad Ozzie is in SO’s; think of what a disadvantage we have in going into shootouts instead of just playing continuous OT’s. Shootout losses are a bit of BS and they determine a winner based on breakaways instead of playing actual hockey, therefore that should be noted in a team’s record and should be used in evaluating a team.
Posted by Itrusteddrrahmani from Nyc by way of A2 on 11/03/09 at 10:18 AM ET
Jeff was clearly talking about points, not winning percentage. HTT’s argument is good, because if a team that loses a seven-game-series 3-4 lost all games in OT, it’ll have more points than the winning team (10 to 8).
But as pointed out, it’s Gary’s World, where the least-awful of the Southeast team gets home-ice advantage over teams with 20 more points.
Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 11/03/09 at 10:18 AM ET
I am in disbelief that this has generated this much discussion. Jeff wasn’t evaluating dick in that sentence. The “overtime loss” part was the NEGATIVE half of his sentence. It was a round-about way of saying the team’s record, nothing more.
Posted by Triple Deke Tyler from Lansing on 11/03/09 at 10:31 AM ET
I am in disbelief that this has generated this much discussion
Blame the players.
“We won 100% of the games/points” wouldn’t create this mess.
Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 11/03/09 at 10:35 AM ET
Well that’s because they don’t rely on the gimmick of a shootout in the playoffs. And the league is saying that if you lose in a shootout it’s not quite the same as losing outright. C’mon look at how bad Ozzie is in SO’s; think of what a disadvantage we have in going into shootouts instead of just playing continuous OT’s. Shootout losses are a bit of BS and they determine a winner based on breakaways instead of playing actual hockey, therefore that should be noted in a team’s record and should be used in evaluating a team.
Posted by Itrusteddrrahmani from Ann Arbor on 11/03/09 at 10:18 AM ET
Makes no sense to me. the team that beats Oz (or any other) in a shootout gets a win. Handing a team points for a loss does nothing but cloud (or disguise) a teams worth.
AND
As someone pointed out earlier, how does that justify a team with a better win record losing home ice advantage to a team with more loser points. All it does is reward losing teams for playing for a tie.
Posted by HockeyTownTodd on 11/03/09 at 10:42 AM ET
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!
Posted by CaptNorris5 from The Winged Wheel, stuck in Chicago on 11/03/09 at 10:45 AM ET
I’d be a fan of the no-tie stuff if we played by the 3-2-1-0 system.
Posted by Guilherme from Brazsil on 11/03/09 at 10:46 AM ET
I don’t know about all of this hurting the integrity of the game or disguising bad teams stuff, but I do know that I’d rather pay money for tickets to my parents’ bedroom on Sunday night than go to a hockey game that ends in a tie.
Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 11/03/09 at 10:50 AM ET
Makes no sense to me. the team that beats Oz (or any other) in a shootout gets a win.
The team does get a win (2 pts), but the team that lost should not get 0 points for losing in Gary’s gimmick to end a game. I guess what i’m saying is I don’t think that a team should get 0 points for losing in a shootout. It’s just not the same to me as losing in regulation or overtime. Maybe teams should get 0 points for losing in OT and 1 point for losing in a shootout, but the system is already complicated and i think that might it even more confusing.
if a team that loses a seven-game-series 3-4 lost all games in OT, it’ll have more points than the winning team (10 to 8).
The idea of a one point loss is limited to the regular season and would obviously never exist in a playoff format since a shootout will never exist. That said, who’s to say the “winning team” didn’t lose all their games in OT. What if every game in the series went to overtime, the winning team would have 11 points and the losing team would have 10. Just sayin….... know you’re using that to show that a team should never have more points if they lost more games, but I just can never justify saying a shootout loss (while grudgingly accepting the fact that a shootout win is deemed equal to a regulation/ot win) is equivalent to losing playing real hockey.
Posted by Itrusteddrrahmani from Nyc by way of A2 on 11/03/09 at 11:02 AM ET
P.s.: puck daddy made a post about the top 9 teams of the decade….We made the list…TWICE
Posted by Itrusteddrrahmani from Nyc by way of A2 on 11/03/09 at 11:08 AM ET
Raf has the flu. Doug Janik is coming over from GR
http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2009/11/red_wings_recall_defenseman_do.html
Posted by Triple Deke Tyler from Lansing on 11/03/09 at 11:13 AM ET
Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 11/03/09 at 10:50 AM ET
+1
In my profession, I repeatedly hear claims that the “rules” make no sense, are stupid, overly punitive, etc.
It matters not, they [the rules] are what they are. [picture Dennis Green].
As to whether or not a teams record indicates how well they are playing, counting only wins and losses is the best indicator [Babs - we are in the “winning business”]. But at the end of the season, if your team is in 9th place but has a better win% than the 8th place team, it matters not.
Thanks Gary, Ass.
The bottomline, to this moment, the Wings haven’t played very good hockey at all. They are fortunate to be only 4 pts out.
Posted by Jeff OKWingnut from Quest for 12 on 11/03/09 at 11:17 AM ET
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...I got nothin’. Maybe it’s because I’m distracted by the Evony babe laying on her backside above the comment section. No wait…it’s because there isn’t a better team in the West…or Least for that matter.
Posted by Animal Drew from A Nightmare on Helm Street on 11/02/09 at 07:52 PM ET