Pavel.  Give Sundin the pick of any other number- except that one.  I’d say Pavel’s earned it.

Posted by mudshark on 06/10/08 at 02:35 PM ET

Definitely. Give Sundin 39.

Posted by pilgrim from the ice at the bottom of the world on 06/10/08 at 02:37 PM ET

Definitely. Give Sundin 39.

Priceless. haha.

Here is a comment I made on this post from Paul a week or so ago about Sundin coming to Detroit.  Feel free to punch holes in my numbers…I would love it if Sundin came here.

I like Mats Sundin, and this is not the first time his name has been linked up with the Wings.  I think should the opportunity present itself, the Boy Wonder signs him.

But the biggest obstacle is cap space.  Here are the Wings UFAs after this season, what they made this season, and what is most likely to happen to them:

Retire:
Dallas Drake (.550)
Dominik Hasek (2.050)
Chris Chelios (.850)

Re-sign:
Andreas Lilja (1.0)
Brad Stuart (3.5)

Re-sign to very low paying contract or let go:
Aaron Downey (.525)
Mark Hartigan (.550)
Darren McCarty* (.535)

Interestingly, if Drake retires, there is ample room for McCarty.  Plus, he will probably be in much better shape next year comparted to this year.

As far as RFAs go, we have these guys:

Valterri Filppula (.850)
Kyle Quincey (.535)
Jonathan Ericson (.475)
Jimmy Howard (.850)

The only question mark here is Quincey.  If the Wings re-sign Stuart and Lilja, there will only be one opening on the blue line.  Both Derek Meech and Kyle Quincey must play this year, they cannot be sent back down to Grand Rapids anymore, so one of them will play and one of them will not.  I am partial to Quincey, but we will see what Kenny Boy does.

The wings have about $4 million in cap space this year, smartly staying under the cap to make room for Zetterberg’s raise next year.  With retirements, and a cure-fire cap increase, they will have about $9 to $10 million in cap space with which to sign a handful of relatively low priced players.

The big obstacle comes next year when we have this crop of free agents:

Henrik Zetterberg (2.9)
Johan Franzen (1.150)
Mikael Samuelson (1.2)
Thomas Kopecky (.525)
Jiri Hudler (RFA) (1.150)

Zetterberg and Franzen will most likely command huge pay raises, while Samuelson, Hudler, and Kopecky will most likely sign contracts for close to the same amount they are making now.  I can also see Kopecky splitting to play elsewhere, he gets almost no time but he is a decent role player who would do well on a different roster.

If Holland can get Sundin to sign either a one year contract, or a discounted contract for a longer-term, he will sign him.  Bit if not, then he can’t afford to upset the pay scale for him, especially with Zetterberg’s negotiations coming up.

And I also posted this:

Let me update my numbers:

Right now the Wings have a $39.040 million cap commitment for next year, leaving about $13.56 million in space assuming the cap does not rise (which it most certainly will).

With that money, they need to sign nine guys.  I have put what they made this year in the first caption, and what I think they will sign for in the second caption:

UFAs:
Andreas Lilja (1.0) (1.5)
Brad Stuart (3.5) (4.5)
Aaron Downey (.525) (.600)
Mark Hartigan (.550) (.600)
Darren McCarty* (.535) (.800)

RFAs:
Valterri Filppula (.850) (2.0)
Kyle Quincey (.535) (.600)
Jonathan Ericson (.475) (.550)
Jimmy Howard (.850) (1.0)

That is $12.15 Million for next season.  Now maybe the wings let go of Hartigan and Downey, and maybe they sign Stuart and McCarty for a little less.  That might free up $2 million, and the cap will most likely only rise by about $1 million.  That gives Kenny boy $4 million in space, and that is a good cushion.  If he can get Mats to sign for under $3 on a one year contract, then I say go for it.  For the record, I don’t think Mats would take that kind of a pay cut.

Posted by John from Pittsburgh, PA (Wings fan for life!) on 06/10/08 at 02:42 PM ET

Pav’s earned his number.  Sundin should take something else - leave the Leaf memories behind dude.

Posted by movesfan13 from Grand Rapids, MI on 06/10/08 at 02:47 PM ET

I wouldn’t object to the Wings overpaying a bit for Stuart. $4.5M seems like a reasonable ceiling. He’s a proven commodity, including the chemistry factor, and the experience of what it takes to go deep into the playoffs. I might be biased, however, in that watching him come up with the Sharks ten years ago I thought he’d be a Norris contender by now.
I’d be prepared to overpay a lot for Filppula. He’s the biggest priority this off-season. I’d anticipate him getting some decent offers. Whatever it takes, he’s a mainstay of this time not only for the future but right now.
Franzen, Ericson, and, needless to say, Zetterberg, are the other priorities on your list.

Posted by BobS. on 06/10/08 at 02:58 PM ET

I think Mats would take that cut. He appears to me to be a pretty classy guy, and combine that with a chance to play for the Cup and it might happen. Also, I’m not sure what kind of relationship he was with Lids, but I have to imagine that there might be some influence there as well.

I think what will be more important than his salary will be where he will be on the roster. I like the way the 2nd line is working, and I’m not sure he fits on the third, or that he would want to. I like Sundin a lot, but I am certainly not big on picking up aging superstars for one last shot. Sounds like Dive to me.

Posted by rwingscup19 from Dallas on 06/10/08 at 03:05 PM ET

I mentioned picking up a right handed shooting winger today. Mats fits that role though naturally a center. Todays NHL & our pace of play would suit him on a wing better… Mats is old enough to have bonuses piled up in a contract that don’t affect the cap either IIRC, but I’m no certifed capologist here. Were I Mats, I’d be running from playing my last season or two in the circus of the MLSE.
He opted to stay with the Laffs at the deadline, honorable enough, so what’s his motivation to go now (other than the obvious one to play on team with a TRUE chance at the playoffs)
I wouldn’t over pay alot for Stuart, but to keep Nik Jr’s partner & keeping the pairing “hunting” bodies for a few years would be just fine.
Fil is a must sign, he’s come with praise from Stevie since Fil came to camp a couple years ago now… I think I’ll trust Stevie there.
“Bored as a two by four” comes tom mind about these rumors… but if Kenny’s acknowledged a big splash, somethings brewing.

Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 06/10/08 at 03:17 PM ET

Pavs. No doubt about it. Pavs is going to be around for a long time and it’s HIS number.

Posted by Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit on 06/10/08 at 03:21 PM ET

This Redwings team won a cup without Sundin… Who would he replace? Who would get moved to which line to bring him in?  And why?  Who isn’t coming back?

All this can be answered in one word: Sammy. 

Bah bye now!  Franzen, Filppula and Sundin.  Sorry Sammy (not really) but you dont (cant) do what Sundin can do…. puck on net. Puck. On. Net.
Allright, let’s get out there and play some hockey!

Posted by cementslinger from Midland MI on 06/10/08 at 03:29 PM ET

I am going to have to revise my numbers again!

Everyone is saying the cap will hit $56 million this year, and if that is true, then the Wings have about $16.96 Million in room. 

Now Holland said that he isn’t going to sign Stuart at more than what Kronwall makes, and Kornwall is sitting at about $3 million a season.  Stuart made about $3.5 million this year and probably doesn’t want to sign for less than that.  I would bet he signs him for $3.25 for two years.

If Filpulla gets the attention on the market that everyone thinks he is going to get, I bet the Holland signs him for closer to $3 million a season. 

That puts Holland at about $11.9 million additional dollars.  Add that to the $39.04 he has under contract already and that gives us $50.94 million and about $5.06 in cap space.

I like the idea of having an all-star player who has never won the cup join the Wings for a season.  It gives the guys something to rally around, just like they did this year with Dallas Drake, or just like the Avs did with Ray Bourque. 

Here is one other thing to consider:

Holland has said that he wants to sign a veteran back-up in case Howard doesn’t work out and we don’t have a solid goalie to play those extra 25-30 games during the regular season.  Now, if Holland does not sign one during the off-season, I bet he is at least going to give himself the option to do so during the regular season.  And that means leaving Sundin off the table unless he signs a super-deal of a contract (like $2.5 to $3 million).

If we can get Sundin at that kind of a bargain, then let’s do it.

If not, then I think Holland leaves the room open to sign a goalie in the fall if need be.  Interestingly enough, I think the most likely candidate for that is Curtis Joseph, who is not likely to be offered a contract by the Flames and who is still searching for that Stanley Cup ring.  He would be a good fit behind Ozzie and I have no doubt that he is good enough to take on some serious minutes if need be.  Plus, he’s cheap.  He played in Calgary for $1.5 million and I bet he would play for less than that if he doesn’t get an offer.

Posted by John from Pittsburgh, PA (Wings fan for life!) on 06/10/08 at 03:32 PM ET

Brad Su=tuart is not worth $4.5mm/yr, not when guys like Jason Smith and Brooks Orpik are also out there that can provide that same role.  Holland doesn’t go north of $3.5mm, and Lilja should not be making anything north of $1mm, especially when he’d be 6th d-man

Posted by bababooey on 06/10/08 at 03:35 PM ET

Sundin only makes sense under the following conditions:

- Stuie comes back and he takes a one-year deal (a two-year deal, as many think he wants, won’t work with Z’s new contract), OR

- Stuie doesn’t come back, Ericsson goes full-time (cheap), then Sundin can have a one-year deal with a BIG number, or a two-year deal that pays out total more than the one-year, but is a lesser cap number, OR

- Kevin Lowe signs Filppula to an offer sheet that, despite his obvious potential and development that is eerily similar to Zetterberg, is stupifyingly (is that a word?) high, so Kenny lets him walk. Then some cash is there to sign Sundin to a two-year deal woth some decent money.

If I wasn’t supossed to be “working” right now I’d check the numbers and see if these gut feelings are correct.

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 06/10/08 at 03:40 PM ET

cujo’s not going to happen. if they sign mats he might go for #31…however that’s kinda a goalie’s # maybe 17 if dallas retires. lots of discussion about cap room - let’s turn the talk to a “NEW” arena.  the JOE is the pits,
hey Chris I take a tour of Nationwide in Columbus, it’s an absolute beauty and talk dad in building something similar

Posted by rocketman from detroit on 06/10/08 at 03:43 PM ET

One more thing.

Let’s watch for backlash on going after RFAs, especially after what Lowe gave up last season. I don’t keep an eye on draft rankings more than for the upcoming year, but if the next draft class is considered strong, I wouldn’t expect anyone to jump for Filppula. Another thing Detroit has in their favor is that the most attractive RFAs and UFAs right now are coming out of Pittsburgh…

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 06/10/08 at 03:46 PM ET

In a previous year (well, previous to this one and after 2002), this sort of talk would have made me slightly nervous over what Ken Holland might do.  But not this year.  This year we’re Stanley Cup Champions, and I’m beginning to think for some reason this Cup is sweeter than the previous three of this era.

Stuart, Sundin, whatever.  Holland will make the right decision.

Posted by TDeters on 06/10/08 at 03:49 PM ET

Definitely Pavel keeps 13.  It might be Sundin’s number, but not here.

I can’t see him taking enough of a discount to sign with Detroit, no matter how many Swedes are already on the team.  He is apparently looking for $16 million over two years (too much for who Detroit needs to sign) and is used to a lot of minutes.

However - if he reduces the minutes Zetterberg and Datsyuk need to play, could that be considered a good thing because it might help alleviate the Stanley Cup hangover?

And if Stuart wants a lot more than Kronwall’s $3 million, he’s gone - and I wish him luck with his new team, too.

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 06/10/08 at 04:07 PM ET

Stuart and Orpik and Smith makes three, with 30 teams looking for help on the blueline.
Stuart is a ten year veteran at 29 (a couple years older than Orpik, 6 or 7 years younger than Smith) with size and some offensive skills who can give you 25 reliable minutes a night, especially in the Wings system, and who has proven pretty durable while playing pretty physical over the course of his career. Those minutes look even better when you consider any time off the ice for the aging Lidstrom and Rafalski during the long regular season are increasingly valuable come playoff time. While I am a big fan of Kronwall, his injury history coupled with his aggressive (bordering on reckless) style of play makes him an always iffy candidate to start and finish the same season. I think what Holland said about not paying Stuart more than Kronwall is just a part of the bargaining process. I also think that with Stuart,in particular, he might be inclined to shave a few bucks off his bottom line for the Wings.
Sundin, if he comes cheap, okay, otherwise the Wings have more important things to do with their money. You might get a better bargain with Sergei Federov, who’s still a pretty decent two-way player.

Posted by BobS. on 06/10/08 at 04:15 PM ET

The Joe might be a dump, but I LOVE THAT PLACE. I get goose bumps EVERY time I see Joe Louis’ right arm (haven’t seen Gordies statue YET) and your first time seeing the armada or banners is awe inspiring! I’ve seen the Habs in the Forum, the Celts in the Garden, Yanks in Yankee Stadium & yes even the Red Sox in Fenway. The old barns are by far the best. When they build a new one, the ghosts from years & teams past are lost.
The capology makes my pea brain hurt.
I’m going home and jumping in the pool and having a beer then maybe walk around behind the lawn mower and not think about how much damn money these guys make…..
Faith in Kenny & the Brain Trust.

Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 06/10/08 at 04:15 PM ET

You work, you save, you sacrifice, you play hurt, you don’t call in sick, you laugh, you cry, you care, you give, you drink beer and you never give in. Right to your last breath.

Thats from Bucci’s article on ESPN. Don’t know why I’m posting this, I just liked it a lot. I guess really this is what it takes to get your jersey retired at the Joe, not like playing for the Dive.

And I just thought of this (because of the beer part), can anyone possibly imagine Lidstrom drunk?

Posted by rwingscup19 from Dallas on 06/10/08 at 04:23 PM ET

I’ve said all along that Stuart needs term. If Kenny can offer him 3-3.25 million over 4-5 years I think Stewie bites. As far as Mats goes, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. All throughout the regular season it was secondary scoring this and secondary scoring that, in the playoffs the secondary scoring took center stage. We are the place where old timers come to get their last shot at glory and I can respect that, however if you want to go to a contender you need to accept less $, something I doubt Mats will do. I guess we’ll see in a few weeks.

Posted by D Town in Bubbaville on 06/10/08 at 04:25 PM ET

I can’t see him taking enough of a discount to sign with Detroit

Yep and I also agree with whoever said that we won the cup without him and probably don’t need him for another.

I like Sundin a lot, but I am certainly not big on picking up aging superstars for one last shot.

Agreed on that point too… unless they’re someone that was once a part of the Wings family (ala Drake) that they feel should come back into the fold and still has something to offer. But Sundin has never been that so I don’t think the Wings org feels any obligation to pick him just to help him finally get his name on the Cup. Sure he’s a class act and still got some skill but I just don’t think they need him or his salary.

I’d rather see us develop more of the homegrown talent we have rather than picking up a UFA for hire. The young guns are the ones who’ll fill the slots as the older guys retire and be able to create a more seamless transition to the future.

Posted by Jennemy of the Skate from putting the b*tches in the box on 06/10/08 at 04:26 PM ET

I can. Like he was in this picture.

Posted by John from Pittsburgh, PA (Wings fan for life!) on 06/10/08 at 04:32 PM ET

I am climbing back into the Hasek Car right now…I fear Kevin Lowe is going to offer Val Filpulla and Jon Ericsson 6 million each, and Kenny will not match.

Posted by w2j2 on 06/10/08 at 04:37 PM ET

The Joe might be a dump, but I LOVE THAT PLACE.

It’s true. It’s a dump but the older places have ghost of the past that you can just feel when you go there. They inhabit the space and make it feel like home. That said, Nationwide really is nice. And having all the bars and restaurants right outside the arena is really cool.

Posted by Jennemy of the Skate from putting the b*tches in the box on 06/10/08 at 04:39 PM ET

And I just thought of this (because of the beer part), can anyone possibly imagine Lidstrom drunk?

Boggles the mind - nope.

Re: aging stars - Drake was different, he wasn’t a star, just an inexpensive depth forward for the playoffs.  Sundin is a whole other proposition.

I fear Kevin Lowe is going to offer Val Filpulla and Jon Ericsson 6 million each, and Kenny will not match.

I’m not sure he has the cap space - and he’d need to go into the Stupid GM Protection Program if he pulled that after the Dustin Penner thing.

Although, with the high draft picks Detroit would get since Edmonton would have a roster of about 14 players, it might be the only way the Red Wings get a single-digit draft pick in the next little while - although I could see them trading it for about six fourth-round picks because they are just more comfortable drafting down there.

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 06/10/08 at 04:45 PM ET

well played John, well played

Posted by rwingscup19 from Dallas on 06/10/08 at 04:45 PM ET

The Joe might be a dump, but I LOVE THAT PLACE.

Fine line between “character” and “dump” and hard to know when it has been crossed.

If they do replace it, it had better not be a cookie-cutter rink with the same atmosphere as every other rink.  Granted, moving all the banners to the new place will help with the atmoshpere, but the best sports facilities reflect the area - that’s why Camden Yards in Baltimore is such a beautiful park.

Just do NOT get the same firm that did the Soldier Field mutilation in Chicago - I saw that when I was visiting family and we were on a bus going to the Shedd Aquarium, and everyone was just chatting with their groups, and as the monstrosity came into view we all fell silent and then started snickering.  You can tell why the locals call it “the Mother Ship.”

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 06/10/08 at 04:55 PM ET

Baroque,

Fine line between “character” and “dump” and hard to know when it has been crossed.

Good point. I’ll retract the dump comment and replace with aged and in need of some TLC. But it’s THE JOE. Home of the Red Wings. Period.
Even if it gets to the same state of existance as the old Boston Garden, I’ll still love it for that one simple fact, HOME OF THE RED WINGS.
If ya haven’t been one of the blessed to visit to old Boston Garden, it smelled much akin to subway systems ‘round the world & as a child gromwing up wanting to be a Celtic it smelled great to give perspective on my “dump” comparison.
How’s this, it’s a dumpy old character laden facility, and I won’t have it any other way. It’s all things Deeeetroit here and now. I don’t want a new barn plain n simple.
There’s another pic from about 6am from the “hangar party” where you can tell Nik has been drinking more of “grampas cough medicine” than he’s used to, which I know isn’t much.
Me OTOH, mowing the lawn and having a beer in the pool…. and then another beer.
Is it me, or does 2008 Stanley Cup Champs still seem to be not quite reality yet?

Posted by MOWingsFan19 from KC MO on 06/10/08 at 05:09 PM ET

Catching up here…

I just threw up in my mouth thinking about CuJo back in the cage.  No go.  I know he played better than the numbers suggested, but…just don’t do it.  Please.  It’s like putting on a t-shirt that an ex gave you.  Bad mojo. 

I’m down on Matts.  Would you really rather see him out there for one year or Fil and the young guys like Home Keys out there for the next half decade?  the rentals worked in 2002 because if they busted, we could just move them to a lower line as a “role player” and fill their spot with another monster. 

If we’re looking at offensive production, I wouldn’t mind a glance at Hossa.  Isn’t he a UFA this year?  Even with the Wings D all over him, he was still a beast to deal with, right up until the end.  The guy’s got wheels and I imagine on a second line with Mule, he’d be very tough to slow down.

One last thought—Isn’t Miller’s contract in the Buff coming up soon?  Year after next?  I’m a fan of holding some space, not maxing out our cap, and being able to make him a significant offer.  Ozzie will be two years older, Howard…who knows…

Posted by disch from bat country on 06/10/08 at 05:10 PM ET

Zetterberg’s contract expires at the end of this up-coming season.  Which means that Holland can, and most certainly will, begin negotiating an extension in JULY, when he is permitted to do so.

As the “19” examine roster issues, keep in mind that Henrik may likely command more than the 6.7 the Wings pay Datsyuk (their highest paid forward).

The Highlander notes that Fil, Howard, and Helm are also RFA.  Further, that Holland will try to get all 3 resigned before July 1.

Unfortunately, it is all about money.  I’m not at all certain the Wings (assuming they resign Stuie, Fil, Howard, and Helm) can afford more than a 1 year deal for Sundin.  Because the 09-10 campaign pays Hank massive cash (which he is rightously earned).

Posted by Jeff OKWingnut from Quest for 12 on 06/10/08 at 06:15 PM ET

This is weird. I assumed some things that none of you seem to have.

1) Lilja is gone. He declined an offer midseason because he felt he was worth more as a top 4 D. He’s barely in the rotation now, and he’ll be gone. He thinks he’s more valuable and he might be, just not to us. Get Meech in there with Lebda, or even Meech-Stuart, Lebda-Kronner if need be. Remember February, remember that game in which Meech dominated everywhere and we called it one of the best Red Wings D performances in a long while. I’m very big on this kid.

I hope Stuart stays, but the only way will be a sub 3.5 mil contract for approx 4 years.

2) Hartigan is gone. He did nothing for us this year and is, all in all, a tool. I didn’t know he won with Anaheim last year and was genuinely pissed off that he was celebrating with the team; I didn’t want to say anything during the festivities but please get the fff outta here.

Other points:

Fil is going nowhere; he’s a Wing for life. He’s smart, has a fiance here and was “hands off” during trade talks.

Mats will fit better in Vancouver. Swedish presence, Canadian city, desperately in need of scoring, and with (I think) some cap space. BTW: Why the F@#$ would you demand a 8mil salary if you genuinely want a chance at the cup? Didn’t Borque and others we signed take pay cuts to get theirs? Hell, even Raffy did and look how that worked out for him. Mats is classy but that demand, should he stick to it, seems ‘tarded.

My guess for offseason splash: Borrowing from Chief, I predict Olie Jokinen (sp?) will become a Wing. Actually, that’s just a hope because we would have to trade for him, unless Sammy….hmmmm

Posted by Osrt on 06/10/08 at 06:15 PM ET

Thought I’d put in my own 2 cents… Sundin would be an interesting acquisition, but in my mind there’s a certain UFA this year in Washington that I wouldn’t mind seeing wearing the Winged Wheel again…

It would make for a very interesting possibilities for lines as well, since he’s quite the versatile player—a great face-off man, able to play center, wing, and defense (remembering him at the point makes me look at Sammy on the powerplay and weep just a bit).  Would he center his own line?  Would he play wing with Pavel and Holmstrom, freeing Zetterberg to play on his own line? 

Perhaps the questions would be:

1) As with Sundin, how much of a pay cut would he be willing to accept to play for the Wings again and the chance to get his playoff mojo on, and

2) Would he rather play as the right-hand set-up man for AO, or would he rather be the benefactor of some sick Datsyukian passes?

3) Would he have his number retired if he came back to Detroit and won another Stanley Cup (j/k )

Posted by ludmeister from Kentucky on 06/10/08 at 06:27 PM ET

“UFAs:
Andreas Lilja (1.0) (1.5)
Brad Stuart (3.5) (4.5)
Aaron Downey (.525) (.600)
Mark Hartigan (.550) (.600)
Darren McCarty* (.535) (.800)

RFAs:
Valterri Filppula (.850) (2.0)
Kyle Quincey (.535) (.600)
Jonathan Ericson (.475) (.550)
Jimmy Howard (.850) (1.0)

That is $12.15 Million for next season.  Now maybe the wings let go of Hartigan and Downey, and maybe they sign Stuart and McCarty for a little less.  That might free up $2 million, and the cap will most likely only rise by about $1 million.  That gives Kenny boy $4 million in space, and that is a good cushion.  If he can get Mats to sign for under $3 on a one year contract, then I say go for it.  For the record, I don’t think Mats would take that kind of a pay cut.”

Well, Lilja, Downey and Hartigan are probably not coming back so there is an additional 2.7 mil cleared up.  And, Stuart won’t make anymore than Kronwall. If he wants more, then he can hit the road.  So, given that we will give our #4 D-man 3 million (which will clear up another 1.5 million), and Filpulla will probably get 3 million, that gives us about 7 million to sign Sundin (plus the cap is expected to go to $56.3 million).  If he signs for $5 million for one year that gives us $2 million to work with at the trade deadline and throughout the year.  We have plenty of money to sign him if he is willing to take a slight, slight pay cut.

Posted by Brian from AA on 06/10/08 at 06:57 PM ET

According the spreadsheet of my heart Sundin will pass Detroit and sail over the Great Plains in search of BC bud on the slopes of Whistler. Because only under the influence of a few tokes from the Nuckbong with Bobby Lou could Sundin believe he’s gonna kick start Vancouver’s offense to a Stanley Cup.

But chances are that Kenny’s more worried about who the hell is gonna be the 4th D if Stuie-o won’t bend under the OrganIzation’s fiscal (aka Champs play for Less) policy. The possibility of having to sign Lilja so he can meander the ice his typical slack-jawed fashion (once-AGAIN) is toooo much to bare. I’d love to see big Ericsson patrolling the ice, but admittedly on the 3rd pairing.

We’ll see 8 D next year though, no matter who signs.   

—And thanks for the props, Chief.

Posted by pilgrim from the ice at the bottom of the world on 06/10/08 at 07:31 PM ET

if Stuart wants to leave, let him. i like the idea of Ericcson on the 2nd pair with Kronwall. or maybe Meech and Kronner with Ericcson with Chelios/Lebda. let Lilja go!

regardless of what happens with Stuart, Kenny can always do what he did at this deadline and pick up our 4th defenseman if things go wrong.

as for Sundin, let’s lock down Fil first.

but man, a second line of Sundin/Franzen/Flip…unstoppable.

Posted by Alex from San Francisco on 06/10/08 at 10:15 PM ET

I haven’t watched much of Sundin over the years.  I know he was the shit…but is he still?

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 06/10/08 at 10:39 PM ET

He’s still got a bit of gas in the tank, but if you sign Sundin, you’re not doing it for the long haul in the regular season.  He’ll be solid in the playoffs for any team that wants him.  The way I think it breaks down is that Sundin can have 6m in cap space this year if he wants it, but no more than 5m next year, and probably closer to 4m.  Regardless, I just don’t see it happening.

Hossa’s not coming anywhere near the Wings.  If he takes a discount, he’ll do it in Pittsburgh.  If he doesn’t, the Wings can’t afford him.

The Wings aren’t going to overpay anybody long term.  It doesn’t matter whether that’s Stuart, Filppula, or Zetterberg.  They’ll all get contracts around what Holland has in mind for them (around 3m, no more than 2m, and somewhere between Datsyuk’s 6.7m and Lidstrom’s 7.45m, respectively), or they’ll pack their bags.

Posted by Ryan from Toronto on 06/11/08 at 01:05 AM ET

Well, since I already went ahead and used the term “Summer of Sundin,” I suppose I’d better start explaining how exactly I see this happening.  But just to note, we all know John Niyo is no Drew Sharp, and he wouldn’t be throwing this out there if he didn’t have something to back it up.

First, the RFAs and UFAs.  Hartigan is gone, no two ways about it.  Downey may be back, but that’s probably contingent on D-Mac’s plans.  Regardless, he’ll be back for League minimum.  Dom and Drake retire.  Lilja, regardless of any soft spot Uncle Mike may have for him, gets no sentimentality from the front office and will be tendered the same offer he had before—1 million and a spot on the third pairing, or he walks.  My guess is he walks.  Stuart, as good as he’s been, has been nothing overtly special, and it’s been made clear to him that this team is not interested in overpaying, but winning.  If he wants to win, he’ll stay, but for no more than his defense partner is making.  3 to 3 and a half (because the market is tight this year), with term.  He’s up in the air though, I don’t know which way he’ll go.  I hope he stays.

The RFAs, I’m not too worried about.  Filppula is the biggest one, and his maturity on the ice no doubt translates to a maturity off it, and I think he’ll be reasonable.  He’ll realize he showed promise, but was incosistent.  I reckon something gets done for close to two million, with Quincey and Ericsson on League minimum.  Howard around one million.  And one thing that hasn’t been mentioned is arbitration.  It’s primary use is if negotiations are going badly, but it can be (and has been) used as a shield, because an RFA in arbitration cannot be sent an offer sheet.  It can only be done once, but none of these gusy have gone to arbitration.  And if they are taken to it, only past performance counts—potential is not looked at.  So either way, this will benefit the Wings.  The only potential for arbitration I see is Filppula, in order to keep him from being sent a ruinous offer sheet.

The two big signings that have to get done before July 2009 are Zetterberg and Franzen.  It was important to get Datsyuk signed long-term, because there were potential problems there, and no indication that he would take a hometown discount.  With Zetterberg, there’s every reason to believe that he WILL.  Mind you, in this case a hometown discount probably translates to somewhere around 7 million a year, but if his comments are anything to go by, he’ll be happy to sign a long-term deal at that rate.  Franzen is the bigger issue, and negotiations with him have been rocky in the past.  I suspect they’ll be looking to sign him soon after July 1st, with pay commensurate somewhere between what he currently is and the promise he showed toward the end of the season and in the playoffs.  The thought of him having a fifty-goal season, and THEN trying to sign him, is too nightmarish to think about.  My guess is 3-4 million, with term.  Both of those contracts will kick in AFTER next season, though.

Then there are the excess players.  During February, I talked about the crunch on D.  Lebda’s shown that he has the chops to be a good puck-moving defenseman, but Meech has shown the potential for better upside than Lebda.  Quincey will need a spot, and Cheli will be back.  With all the forwards we have, including Ville Leino and the potential for Sundin, I think the plan for Lebda or Meech to go up front is now out the window.  So one of them will probably be traded for a pick.  I hope Lebda—he has more value in a trade and I like Meech’s upside.  As much as I agree that Ericsson is ready for third-pairing NHL duty, I think he stays in GR to play on the top pairing and the 25-30 minutes a night ice time that comes with it.  Development is crucial.  So with Stuart back in the top four, Cheli going in and out as #5 defenseman, and Quincey and Meech rotating (and sometimes forming the third pairing themselves in lower-pressure games).  Someone also mentioned Samuelsson—again, despite Babcock’s man-crush, I could see William Tell being traded to ease the pressure for spots up front.  He might bring a sizeable return too, given his performance in the playoffs.

So finally to Sundin.  The man’s made millions in his career, but no rings.  If he’s serious about going to a contender for a shot at the Cup, he’ll put pen to paper for five million and bonuses or less.  But only for ONE year.  He still has something left, and this keeps him from going to a rival.  Bing bang bong, the Wings become favorites to repeat.

So here’s the team and the payscales next year:

Zetterberg (2.65M)-Datsyuk (6.7M)-Holmstrom (2.25M)
Franzen (0.95M)-Filppula (2.0M)-Sundin (5.0M)
Maltby (0.88M)-Draper (1.6M)-Cleary (2.8M)*
Kopecky (0.5M)-Helm (0.75M)-Hudler (1.1M)
Downey (0.5M) OR McCarty (1.0M)

Lidstrom (7.45M)-Rafalski (6M)
Kronwall (3.0M)-Stuart (3.25M)
Chelios (0.75M)-Meech (0.5M)
Quincey (0.5M)

Osgood (1.4M)
Howard (1.0M)

*(Franzen and Cleary occasionally swapping places—Cleary deserves time on a scoring line, and Franzen getting time on a defensive line will keep his goal total- and hence his price for 2009-10 and beyond- down.)

All adding up to around $56.3 million…right around what the cap is projected to be for 2008-09.  No room for a trade, but when you’ve already made the splash with Sundin, where’s the need for one?

And THAT’S why I’ll continue to bang the drum for the Summer of Sundin, at least until some other team like the Rangers throws ten million a year at him

Posted by AndrewFromAnnArbor from the University of Michigan Capology Department on 06/11/08 at 07:28 AM ET

No room for a trade, but when you’ve already made the splash with Sundin, where’s the need for one?

The extra cap space isn’t just needed for trades, but also for injury callups.  Vancouver (I think) had so many injuries and so little cap space that they were shuttling players back to the minors whenever a game wasn’t scheduled so they wouldn’t count against the Canucks salary committments - so as a result the youngsters weren’t getting to practice consistently with anyone.

And although he dodged the injury bug this year, any team with Kronwall is going to need to save space for injury callups more than other teams.

I don’t see Holland leaving that little wiggle room, no matter how appealing having Sundin might be to him.

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 06/11/08 at 07:41 AM ET

As the “19” examine roster issues, keep in mind that Henrik may likely command more than the 6.7 the Wings pay Datsyuk (their highest paid forward).

All rumblings from the Diggers have been that a few ideas have already been bounced between the two sides and that it’s looking like a long-term deal worth about $7 million per year.

Also don’t forget the offseason article from SportBladet where Zetterberg said he wasn’t concerned with money—that he enjoyed where he was playing and what he was doing.

Lastly, after the season and playoff Z had, it makes sense for him to sign an extension now. If he waits another year to try and hit the market, who knows what happens? Maybe his wrist acts up and he plays 40 games. Maybe his back goes south and he plays 20. With all the things he has said, it sounds like he likes playing here. He’s going to get a real nice salary to stay. It doesn’t make sense to take the chance of waiting through another season when anything can happen when your value is already as high as it’ll get.

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 06/11/08 at 08:07 AM ET

Oh crud—injury call-ups are subject to cap restrictions?  Of all the research I did, I didn’t get that.  And Kronwall’s playing smarter now, but you never know…nuts.

Oh, and Baroque, regarding ceremony, pomp and circumstance, try a Community High School graduation some time.  One of my (male) classmates wore a pink tutu.  I wore a pinstripe suit and trenchcoat, slicked back my hair and wore sunglasses, and came down the aisle with a fake tommy gun and a rose between my teeth.  In a graduation class of about 100 people, five wore caps and gowns.

Posted by AndrewFromAnnArbor from the cold hard real world of the cap on 06/11/08 at 08:12 AM ET

With my dreams shattered, I guess this solves the question of who will wear #13 for the Wings next year too.  I’ll just go sulk now…

Posted by AndrewFromAnnArbor from the Joe rafters, hanging every number 0-99 on 06/11/08 at 08:42 AM ET

With my dreams shattered, I guess this solves the question of who will wear #13 for the Wings next year too.  I’ll just go sulk now…

Sorry, sweetheart.

I was giving the valedictory address in high school, and I couldn’t even get out of college by graduating a semester early, so no dice.

Haven’t been subjected to a wedding yet, thank god, so my life has been largely ceremony-free.

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 06/11/08 at 10:36 AM ET

Meh.  I’m already over it, mijn lief, but thanks for your concern.   Sundin can seek his Cup elsewhere unless he’ll play for peanuts.  But on the bright side, guess this also means no trade of Tell, and he’ll be kicking around in the top six next year as well.  With Lilja most likely gone, Sammy can be our goat next year.  We can continue to heap abuse on him and call on him to hit something other than the glass and his teammates’ jaws for once.  And while he couldn’t hit the ground from the top of a skyscraper, he at least is defensively responsible and isn’t subject to the same fits of pique that cause Lilja to turn over the puck in our end.  Just now gotta see where Leino fits in…

Another advantage to Commie—no valedictorians.  Everybody in the class gets their turn to speak for a few minutes.  I thanked Ben & Jerry in my speech.  And for what it’s worth, you probably want to avoid the entire continent of Europe like the plague.  The only thing worse than the useless ceremonies every country has for this and that is the hordes of camera-toting gawking tourists in Bermuda shorts convincing themselves that they’re awed by something that lost all significant pragmatism centuries ago.

Oh, and don’t even get me started on weddings…

Posted by AndrewFromAnnArbor from a world of pompous circumstances on 06/11/08 at 12:54 PM ET

And for what it’s worth, you probably want to avoid the entire continent of Europe like the plague.  The only thing worse than the useless ceremonies every country has for this and that is the hordes of camera-toting gawking tourists in Bermuda shorts convincing themselves that they’re awed by something that lost all significant pragmatism centuries ago.

It’s been a decade and a half, but I have been to Russia - and I don’t recall Bermuda shorts, but the Japanese tourists really were as stereotypically snap-happy as I had heard they were. 

Oh, and don’t even get me started on weddings…

My sister had a nice simple ceremony - but before that the last wedding I went to involved a pool at the reception where the friends of the happy couple picked that break-up date.  I picked eight months, but lost (barely - they lasted nine months).  Not exactly the cheery atmosphere you want at a reception.

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 06/11/08 at 01:10 PM ET

Andrew—here is a “newsflash” for your swede-swooning heart, from Sports Illustrated:

The Canadiens and Red Wings are rumored to be front-runners should Mats Sundin hit the free-agent market July 1. But there will no shortage of interested clubs. If Sundin tells Fletcher next week he wants to explore the free-agent market, the Leafs could also attempt to trade his rights before July 1 in order to receive some assets before losing him. One thing’s for sure, Cliff Fletcher said, Sundin will not retire.

Posted by Jeff OKWingnut from Quest for 12 on 06/11/08 at 01:18 PM ET

Geez, Jeff - Don’t get him started again! 

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 06/11/08 at 01:19 PM ET

“Zetterberg (2.65M)-Datsyuk (6.7M)-Holmstrom (2.25M)
Franzen (0.95M)-Filppula (2.0M)-Sundin (5.0M)
Maltby (0.88M)-Draper (1.6M)-Cleary (2.8M)*
Kopecky (0.5M)-Helm (0.75M)-Hudler (1.1M)
Downey (0.5M) OR McCarty (1.0M)

Lidstrom (7.45M)-Rafalski (6M)
Kronwall (3.0M)-Stuart (3.25M)
Chelios (0.75M)-Meech (0.5M)
Quincey (0.5M)

Osgood (1.4M)
Howard (1.0M)

*(Franzen and Cleary occasionally swapping places—Cleary deserves time on a scoring line, and Franzen getting time on a defensive line will keep his goal total- and hence his price for 2009-10 and beyond- down.)

All adding up to around $56.3 million…right around what the cap is projected to be for 2008-09.  No room for a trade, but when you’ve already made the splash with Sundin, where’s the need for one?

And THAT’S why I’ll continue to bang the drum for the Summer of Sundin, at least until some other team like the Rangers throws ten million a year at him”

Really, really good post.  One correction, though.  based on your totals, that is $52.53 million committed for next season.  So, give or take a million or so with the potential that Filpulla signs for more than you have him pegged for, and McCarty signs for less, we will still have about 3 million in cap space for the deadline, and for call-ups (you originally stated that there would be no room for that).  If anything, this just adds a better argument for your post.

Posted by Brian from AA on 06/11/08 at 01:53 PM ET

Negotiations between Washington and Federov will be interesting- you gotta believe the Caps first priority is getting Green signed. Federov was overpaid at $6M+ this past season- at this point in his career, he should be making no more than half that.
With his hockey smarts, he certainly hasn’t failed to notice he’d not only fit nicely in the Wings system, but he’s a lot closer to getting his name on another Cup in Detroit than Washington. His sentimental Russian hockey heart should also tell him he’d be hailed as the prodigal son were he to decide to end his career where it began, as opposed to a hockey vagabond. All would be forgiven.
And yes ludmeister, with his HoF credentials (including a mid-90s run as the best player in the NHL), multiple Cups, and his longetivity as a Wing, #91 should hang from the rafters.

Posted by BobS. on 06/11/08 at 01:57 PM ET

I don’t recall Bermuda shorts

Well, maybe not in Russia.  I’ve only been once, but that was in an April, and it was still freaking frigid.  Granted, St. Petersburg was colder than Moscow, but Moscow was hardly temperate.  I didn’t see any Bermuda shorts there.

the last wedding I went to involved a pool at the reception where the friends of the happy couple picked that break-up date.

Now THAT sounds like my kind of wedding!  Obviously, it’s not the kind of thing you want to see at the wedding of a loved one, but I’ve been to very few of those.  I’ve been to too many of people who disgust me, or at best I’m indifferent toward.  Including one that happened two months after the groom cheated on the bride and was caught.  I was very tempted during the handshake to say, “Lovely wedding.  Have you set a date for the divorce?”  I wasn’t far wrong, though—it lasted less than a year.

At any rate, love and ceremony is not and should not be a reason to suspend reality.  Unfortunately, it very often is.

One correction, though.  based on your totals, that is $52.53 million committed for next season.

Oh, criminy, thanks Brian!  I knew I should have double checked the calculations.  Well, I’m back on the bandwagon.  SUMMER OF SUNDIN!  SUMMER OF SUNDIN!  SUMMER OF SUNDIN!

Posted by AndrewFromAnnArbor from Stockholm, indulging heavily in the Swede-lovin' on 06/11/08 at 02:45 PM ET