Abel to Yzerman
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Oh….So You Want A Little Friction?
by IwoCPO on 07/28/08 at 08:00 PM ET
Comments (18)
Yes, by god. I know. I know it’s late July and I really know the hockey world has come to a complete stop waiting for TO’s Diva to make up her mind. The only thing we know about Mats Sundin is that he really doesn’t care all that much about winning a Cup. The rest? Doesn’t matter to much to me. Vancouver, Toronto, New York...doesn’t matter.
If he’d signed with Montreal by now? Yeah, that would be a statement. Now? I really don’t care. Pick a spot. Don’t. Stay in Sweden. Whatever.
Meanwhile, I’ve got a ditty for you.
The Puck Stops Here is a clearing house for smart hockey talk. Stats. Analysis. Genius.
Here? Well. Um. Not so much. While they’re using terms like “sabermetrics”, we rely on old standbys like calling men bitches and finding different ways to prove the Mensas at Pensblog are really blogging on location from Vegas in between sets of Cher tunes.
But it’s not like it’s against our charter to find the smart stuff and pick it apart, you know? So, let’s give that a shot. Just for fun.
Check this out.
Maltby? Draper? Replaceable. Yep. Oh, and the stats back it up brother. +/-, shorthanded, stat adjustments and money against the cap. Serious analysis. And it’s hard to argue with.
There are many examples of players who made bigger contributions than either of these two who earn around their salaries (or less). There are players out there who could do this. It wouldn’t be that difficult for Detroit to have found some this summer, had that been their desire. Worst case, they would get players who don’t score and put up poor adjusted +/- ratings against moderate opposition but cost less. That savings could be used to upgrade elsewhere. There is a good chance, if the Red Wings select well, that they could find players who make a much bigger contribution than Draper and Maltby.
I could blockquote the whole post. All of it makes sense and every bit of it is well thought out and statistically sound. Maltby and Draper are on the downslope. They’re not the youthful grinders, the tenacious muckers with a hint of scoring touch. They’re role players who bring little offense and not as much defensive ability to the table as they did in their younger years.
But...yeah. We know there’s a “but” in there. TPSH handles it for us even before you start tipping and tapping.
Detroit is a place that NHL players want to play. This is shown, in part, by their signing of Marian Hossa this summer for below expected market cost. They go this way in part by winning and in part by being loyal to their players who have been loyal to the franchise. As an example, last year they brought back Darren McCarty in his comeback despite the fact he had little value. Kirk Malty and Kris Draper have been very loyal to the Red Wings and the Wings are loyal to them. This loyalty helps to get them free agents at below market cost. Players know they will be treated well in Detroit.
Now. Let’s be practical here for just a minute. Loyalty? Yeah. We get it and dig it. It matters. And it’s repaid in Detroit. It’s reciprocal and that’s cool.
But, Kirk Maltby is going to have a job next year because he brings Cup experience and heart. Kris Draper, most definitely a job, because he hates to lose and he absolutely loves to win in Detroit.
It’s not just about repaying these guys for what they’ve done in Detroit, and I don’t think that’s the point of the post at The Puck Stops Here. Like I said, it’s sound. But, there’s something about these guys that keeps them around. Something more than just what they did for us in ‘98 or ‘02 or even later.
There’s something in that room created by a few guys other than the Swede wearing the “C”.
I said last year that Maltby probably has little time left. I questioned his value and I wondered if he wasn’t even a candidate to head elsewhere after Traverse City. Again, I was proven dumb.
It’s a lot about heart and a bit about loyalty. And it’s a whole lot about wanting to win, starving for the Cup even though you already have three or four of those bastards. And it’s about enjoying winning wearing red and white, and doing what you have to in order to keep your body in shape to have that next shot.
That’s what Maltby and Draper bring to the table.
Statistically? Falling like stones, especially Maltby. But...16’s a nice round number, eh? That’s the stat that matters.
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Comments
Yeah. And I read somewhere that Babcock likes Maltby’s attitude.
This year they really need Grand Rapids to have a better team.
That being said, if they need room in the big show for Helm, Abbadabbadoo, Saving Nemo, or someone else, they could quietly ask Maltby to retire, and set him up in an off-ice position...Say assistant to Jiri Fischer.
Posted by w2j2 on 07/28/08 at 08:26 PM ET
I would bet money that Malts and Wheels KNOW where they stand and would sooner retire than wear a different jersey.
As critical parts of the Dynasty that Steve built, their pride is in the team, not in themselves.
They will tell Ken when it’s time before Uncle Mike has to put a note in their locker.
Wheels has more in the tank. Malts, maybe not so much.
Posted by Scott H from Kalamazoo on 07/28/08 at 08:47 PM ET
You know your team is good when the best people can do is carp about a guy making 1.5 mil and another guy making 880k.
That aside, looking at what Draper and Maltby bring to the table based primarily on a stat sheet is right next to sleeping over at Neverland on the ‘I have no sympathy for your soreness’ scale.
Of course they aren’t the same players they were 4+ years ago. Duh. The last year before the lockout they were making almost 3.5 a year between them, now it’s 2.4.
Posted by HockeyinHD on 07/28/08 at 08:50 PM ET
Between Draper’s unbelievable aptitude at faceoffs and the fact that he’s all but a skating assistant coach who manages to kill penalties, settle down the youngin’s, and “take care” of both the dressing room and put guys like Jiri Hudler along the path to fitness, I’ll take him, thanks.
Maltby? He’s the guy who seems to do nothing save absolutely adore being a Red Wing and work damn hard to be Draper’s foil, except when you’re in the playoffs, and the game’s tighter than Gary Bettman’s orifices, Maltby always finds a way to get somebody to go off on him and take a stupid penalty. And Babs doesn’t play this guy based on reputation.
They’re also more than ready to preach the Red Wings’ philosophy to the kids who will eventually replace them, tell their free agent-to-be teammates how awesome it is to play for the Red Wings, and actually get out in the community and be accessible and visible when the organization’s gatekeepers tell their players to “stay low” because those in charge inexplicably want to keep their fans at arm’s length…
I’ll take ‘em, and I’ll take putting Abdelkader and possibly Helm in the AHL so that they can get 20 minutes of ice time a game instead of five up here. I can tell you for a fact that the Wings would have shored up their roster to ensure that Abdelkader and Helm would be playing at the western end of I-96 instead of sitting on the bench for 55 minutes up here anyway--and Emmerton’s not ready for the NHL, not yet.
The Wings’ brass is infinitely more patient with players at both the start and toward the end of their NHL careers, and the formula seems to work.
Posted by George James Malik from South Lyon, MI on 07/28/08 at 09:51 PM ET
AMEN!
I remain a fan, Mr. Malik. YOU, sir, have nailed another one.
Lock this thread, nothing more to see here.
Posted by Scott H from Kalamazoo on 07/28/08 at 10:19 PM ET
I’m grateful for a post in the middle of a long summer without hockey…
... but you could have summed up the counterargument in a paragraph:
Maltby and Draper will do absolutely anything that it takes to achieve a Red Wings victory. Any. Thing. That’s worth $2.5 million and 10-12 minutes a game. Always.
Posted by Jayo from Toronto on 07/28/08 at 10:23 PM ET
Oh, and the stats back it up brother. +/-, shorthanded, stat adjustments and money against the cap. Serious analysis. And it’s hard to argue with.
Sounds like a quote from “Steve” from the The Value Of Z thread. Get out the calculator, crunch the numbers, and then throw out anyone who doesn’t look good on the spreadsheet. (Um, you do remember the veracity of those who use spreadsheets, right?)
Anyway, Drapes is a faceoff guru. He earns every dollar the Wings pay him. Malts? Well, I personally don’t see his overall value (even at a cap hit of $883k per season). But, then, I didn’t see the value of Drake either...until it was playoff time.
Wings fans (and haters) can bitch and moan all they want about who the Wings sign (and for how long). But when it’s all said and done, the decision-makers seem to have a pretty damn good handle on what it takes to be a winner in the NHL.
In Ken we trust. Period. Exclamation point!
Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids on 07/28/08 at 10:41 PM ET
Didn’t Draper set an NHL record for the highest faceoff wins percentage in an SCF with something like c?
Posted by SYF from Las Vegas, NV on 07/28/08 at 10:55 PM ET
Period. Exclamation point!
.!
Posted by rwingscup19 from Dallas on 07/29/08 at 12:00 AM ET
IMO these guys are the glue that holds this team together. You look back to 97, and its lids, homer, maltby dmac and draper that have been here all though this fantastic run. We have been through more goalies than i care to remember. We turned over a roster loaded with hall of famers and went with alot of unknowns sammy, cleary, flip, franzen, lilja, kopecky etc etc, and still, this team does nothing but rack up cups and division titles.
Clearly part of that is good scouting, and part of that is hollands ability to get good players as well as babcocks ability to coach them. But still, for me, its the glue that keeps this team functioning like a family. These are the guys in the locker room cracking jokes when they are down 2-0 in a finals game. They also know how to compete, how to prepare in the offseason, and when its time for the postseason, they always elevate their games.
seriously, how can you have a family type atmosphere without someone like draper lurking around in the locker room waiting to prank you on your birthday.
Posted by aTTiCA on 07/29/08 at 12:09 AM ET
the reason the Wings win win win is because Ilitch, Holland and crew realize that it’s about more than $$ and points. it’s about heart. it’s about dedication. it’s about the locker room. the Rangers proved that when they bought a bunch of almost-washed-up primadonnas who didn’t fit and had apparently little motivation.
Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 07/29/08 at 12:19 AM ET
seriously, how can you have a family type atmosphere without someone like draper lurking around in the locker room waiting to prank you on your birthday.
nice.
What George (GM) said.
Also, if you watch the Cup dvd, there is a practice video with Malts mic’d up. He is hilarious and keeping everyone light, enjoying themselves. Not the player he used to be for sure, but very worthwhile presence.
Posted by Osrt on 07/29/08 at 02:19 AM ET
There are players out there who could do this. It wouldn’t be that difficult for Detroit to have found some this summer,
WOW, I had no idea that players like that, with their name on the cup 4 times, were so easy to find. Perhaps he could name a few.
Posted by HockeyTownTodd from upset when blogs dont live up to my expectations on 07/29/08 at 02:40 AM ET
Looks to me like somebody wants us to turn our “whipping post” attentions off from Lilja and Sammy and onto Drapes and Malts. I’m not gonna buy into that.
Posted by cementslinger from Midland MI on 07/29/08 at 07:39 AM ET
Again George says it all & very well.
+1 for HTT’s comment about where these readily available, cheap, reliable, Cup savy players are? Wondering why nobody else has signed them???
Malts is always yapping… good, bad or other wise. He’s always been full of piss n vinegar & a little annoying “that way”. Good. Me too.
Looks to me like somebody wants us to turn our “whipping post” attentions off from Lilja and Sammy and onto Drapes and Malts. I’m not gonna buy into that.
Harder to beat to on them ‘cause they don’t have their names on 4 Cups? LOL
Ok, 2 posts here this morning & both have had 93 in the security word....Coincidence?
Posted by MoWingsfan19 on 07/29/08 at 08:06 AM ET
Just to touch on points that weren’t already brought up here, Draper and Maltby earn their money on the penalty kill, not at even strength. So looking exclusively at even strength numbers is obviously going to show them in a poor light. And it’s not such a big deal to overpay (if that’s what you think they’re doing) for third or fourth liners, especially when you’re looking at rate stats. Because they’re on the ice for so little, the per minute stats aren’t as big a deal. And for what it’s worth, Draper’s salary and cap hit last season were around $2.1m, making their combined cap hit almost $3m. It’s his new contract that’s for about $1.6m.
Speaking of which…
And it still blows my mind that the Wings would give Draper a three year contract for an average of $1.6m that will take him into his 40’s before the Cup is handed out in its final year. If he retires by choice or injury, the Wings get nothing and that cap hit stays on the books. It’s not like there was any risk of losing him to free agency. It’s not like it’d be hard to explain why a one or two year contract is more reasonable. If Ken Holland had tried to drive a hard bargain, does anyone really think he wouldn’t have gotten Draper for less? I can’t imagine any possible reason to sign him so early for so much and for so long other than the kind of loyalty they’re talking about in that blog.
Not that I think that’s necessarily a bad thing, of course.
Posted by Ryan from Toronto on 07/29/08 at 11:06 AM ET
Maltby has always been a favorite of mine. Never understood why some Wings fans would criticize him, especially if you closely followed this team for some time. It’s intangables as others have mentioned. Plus, he always has driven opponents nuts.
Posted by Jeff from Loveland, CO on 07/30/08 at 09:23 AM ET
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How do you measure “Intangibles”? I have to trust that Uncle Mike and Tick Tock, and not least of all Al Kaline on skates, have a way to measure Intangibles. This is especially critical for Maltby, whereas Draper, for all his frustrating ineptness trying to guide the puck at the net, is a master of the defensive face off which Uncle Mike continues to rely on in all games at critical times. Few of the 750 other players in the league are as good at the face off as Drapes, and possessions gained through face off wins translate to fewer opportunities for the opponents to score every bit as much as steals and saves. Now, Malts, without even being the Agitator he once was, would appear to be a tougher sell, but remains locked in contract for a couple of more years effectively blocking out Abdulkhader and Cory E and others.
Posted by RWBill from jabbing a six inch sewing needle into my eye. on 07/28/08 at 07:58 PM ET