Abel to Yzerman
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Provincial Digging And, Finally, Signing All Three
by IwoCPO on 11/20/08 at 08:49 AM ET
Comments (66)
Of greatest importance to you? There is a poll at the bottom of this post asking you to vote for tonite’s featured Live Blog artist. Yes, I could have gone with Edmonton rock/folk legends, or even Western Canadien(an) artists...but I’m just too lazy. I think, and I could be wrong, that Sammy Johns--writer and singer of the timeless classic, “Chevy Van"--is from Edmonton, but he’s not in the poll.
Most of our Diggers have apparently made the big trip to Edmonton. I’m assuming MacLeod, thanks to his cheap-ass employer, did not.
We start with the captain, who gave the league’s statistically worst (other than our bitch Turco) starting goalie--33rd in GAA, 37th in save percentage--a chance to tell us just how special Andy Moog was.
With 370 wins, Osgood is two behind Moog, who ranks 13th on the all-time list.
“(Moog) is one of the guys I idolized growing up,” Osgood said. “I learned watching him play.”
Neat. Such a riveting story that Helene St. James hit it just as hard.
“It’s an honor because I grew up watching him play and I remember going to hockey schools that he was at, teaching,” Osgood said. “He was one of the guys I idolized growing up.”
Osgood, in case you didn’t know, idolized Andy Moog growing up.
Some might say the similarities between the two are striking...particularly the talent they’ve surrounded themselves with. Osgood naysayers have been picking fights with the downriver puck bunnies for years, as we all know, based on that fact specifically.
Tonite, after nearly a week off and plenty of practice, Osgood has a chance to re-establish himself as the unquestioned Number 1. And if he doesn’t? He’ll get another chance and another one after that. Me? I would have gone with Conklin one more night and unveiled the new and refreshed Ozzie Saturday in Calgary.
Oh, and after Craig MacTavish said mean things about him to the highly objective Edmonton media the other day, Dustin Penner returned for the BJs, as any of us would.
An exceptional performance from the gentle giant in his 200th NHL game. Responded to his benching with his best game as an Oiler, scoring once and contributing directly to three other goals with his massive presence in front of the net. 3 shots, 3 hits, +2, and a thorn in Pascal Leclaire’s side all night long.
Edmonton was still outshot by 20, 39-19. Columbus doubles you up after a lackluster performance the night before? I’d say that light at the end of the tunnel is still a few rinks away.
The Anti-Digger has a post up at Red Wings Corner about the increase of 5-3’s. Lots of numbers and statistics that made me glaze a bit. But several tidbits worth noting, this one in particular.
The lengths of two-man advantages are part of the problem. In a 7-6 loss to Pittsburgh last week, Johan Franzen preceded Valtteri Filppula to the penalty box by just six seconds. The Red Wings weathered the first 1:13 of the 1:54 of 5-on-3 time with Sidney Crosby—the 2007 Hart Trophy winner—and Evgeni Malkin—a 2008 Hart finalist—firing away. But finally Malkin found the back of the net.
“Five-on-threes are normally like 20 seconds,” said Babcock. “We killed the first 1:13, didn’t we? We were unbelievable. How long are you going to give Crosby and Malkin the chance to fire away?”
Yeah, the Wings are suffering from too many 2-man disadvantages. Got it. But the second point about the amount of time spent killing them is absolutely key. And we all know where it comes from. The Bettman enclave. Wasn’t hockey just better when you knew that the refs would be a little more forgiving when one team is killing a penalty. You know, instead of raising the right hand at the slightest hint of a HOOKING PENALTY. Not anymore, not in LG’s “new NHL.”
And you can’t even blame the refs, necessarily. Back when there was only one he had the outstanding alibi of having “not seen it.” But now with two of those bastards, nothing goes unnoticed. And if they’re doing their job--in a completely wholesome, honest way--they call what they see.
Want the 5-3’s to decrease? Bring back the one-ref system. That, my friends, will never happen because it would mean admitting a mistake. And that isn’t, you know, the commissioner’s strong suit...despite the fact that he has plenty, and I mean PLENTY, of opportunity to do so.
Jim Matheson at the Edmonton Journal has the standard “embarrassment of riches” story this morning, focusing on the brilliance of Datsyuk and Zetterberg. The standard “we got lucky” quote from Holland. The mandatory statement from a teammate (Maltby) that they’re the hardest workers on the team. Humble. Etc.
This line stood out though.
The Red Wings are led by two of the top centres in the world, Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg.
True, and they will be for years to come. Because--and I guess it’s time to at least broach the subject here since I’m the last blogger on earth who hasn’t yet--we all know Tick Tock’s gonna sign Hank. Done. For more than Lidstrom? I’m thinking no.
But that’s not the worry point and we all know it. You know what kind of spot we’re in? Let me tell you. We’re all digging Hossa. He’s an amazing player. But you’re holding back. You’re not allowing yourself to get too attached because he’s either going to (a) leave or (2) be the guy who stays when Franzen leaves.
At least that’s the conventional thinking. That’s what the number guys tell us. It’s what Tick Tock’s hinted at several times. The budget just won’t allow us to keep all three.
Really? I’m not going to get into the guts of the roster and the salaries involved. But here’s the thing we’re all pinning our hopes on. Somebody’s gonna have to take a cut. And not just one. Zetterberg’s gonna have to do it, so that Hossa sees a fellow superstar making the sacrifice for the good of team. Franzen’s going to have to look at those two and see that winning and making 5 mil is more fun than getting your ass kicked in St. Louis making 7.5.
And the Captain? Well, he may just have to submit to a little re-structuring from 7.6 to 6.5.
If this is gonna work, the big four have all got to conspire in the interests of success. It can’t be just one guy sucking it up. It has to be all four.
I’ll tell you this, if Tick Tock can get this done...4 superstars all taking a cut to stay with a team they love to play for? It could change the league. Everyone talks about the rest of the teams following in the footsteps of the previous year’s Cup winner? Well, this would be something. It’s not a management technique, it would be a characteristic of an NHL player. It would be a testament to the Cup itself.
Everyone talks about winning the Cup and the dreams they had growing up. The greatest accomplishment in team sports. The “toughest trophy to win.” Ok. Well. Prove it. Prove its value and sacrifice that extra million. Then convince your pals to do the same.
No chance it could happen in other sports. None. Is CC Sabathia going to take a cut to fit into the Milwaukee budget and keep a good young team together? Ummm. No. Is Lebron James going to stay in Cleveland? Hell, is Terrell Pryor going to stay at Ohio State after two years? Zero chance of that happening. They’re going for the cash. Every one of them. Championships in other sports are fringe benefits. In hockey? It’s supposed to be the ultimate. At least that’s what Gary’s marketing people would tell us if they had a brain cell among them.
We’ll see. It’s the only way this can work. If the Cup means a bit more, about a million more per guy, than the cash? The Big 4 will all be back next year.
If not? The charade is not too different than the one played out in every other sport.
Edit: MC Keeper asks a good question below. I’m not sure, obviously, if the CBA allows for “restructuring”. If it doesn’t my theory is blown. Dammit. Or at least part of it is.
So there. I’ve weighed in.
On to the poll. It’s our first Provincial Live Blog following my decree that all road games will feature a band/artist from that town. I’ve decided that we’re going to open it up to a number of Canadian(en) rockers because if Canada was a US state like it should be, that’s how we’d roll.
Vote early. Vote often.
Filed in: | Abel to Yzerman | Permalink
Comments
I recommend your blog musician to be Edmonton born Tommy Chong. He put out some songs with and without Cheech Marin.
Posted by PuckStopsHere on 11/20/08 at 09:11 AM ET
mc keeper, Once a contract is signed under the new CBA, it cannot be adjusted.
Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 11/20/08 at 09:13 AM ET
Restructuring is not allowed. If it was, you wouldn’t see guys getting bought out.
Posted by DFF on 11/20/08 at 09:28 AM ET
Everyone talks about winning the Cup and the dreams they had growing up. The greatest accomplishment in team sports. The “toughest trophy to win.” Ok. Well. Prove it. Prove its value and sacrifice that extra million. Then convince your pals to do the same.
Here’s the flaw in this idea: three of the four guys you’re talking about taking pay cuts have ALREADY won the Cup. Some of them, more than once. Is that “I’ll do anything to win it” drive still in them, or are they now thinking “it would be great to win it again and again, but I’ve gotta think about my family’s future, too?”
Sorry to be a downer…
Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 11/20/08 at 09:31 AM ET
Sorry to be a downer
Not at all, and very realistic. Never a strong suit for me.
Posted by IwoCPO from Washington, DC on 11/20/08 at 09:39 AM ET
Yeah, I’m with Paul… I really hate to rain on the parade, but it isn’t happening. This team has one year.
The team will still be a force and legitimate Cup contender after this season, though. Once Hossa and/or Franzen and/or Hudler go, guys like Flip and Cleary will see their ice time increase and they’ll be able to re-assert themselves as offensive forces on the team. Right now, they can’t, not because they don’t have the ability, but because the ice time and PP time isn’t there for them like it might have been the last two seasons.
The Wings will be near the top of the West and have a legit shot at the Cup for the better part of the next decade, but not with the team looking like this, that’s all.
Posted by Nathan on 11/20/08 at 09:43 AM ET
but I’ve gotta think about my family’s future, too?
what is the difference between 7.5 and 6 in the grand scheme of things? i don’t think i could take care of my family with only 6 mil, but 7.5 would do it. ridiculous.
Posted by rwingscup19 from Dallas on 11/20/08 at 09:44 AM ET
what is the difference between 7.5 and 6 in the grand scheme of things? i don’t think i could take care of my family with only 6 mil, but 7.5 would do it. ridiculous.
Now we’re talkin’.
Posted by IwoCPO from Washington, DC on 11/20/08 at 09:46 AM ET
I voted Rush, since I was a teen when MTV was incarnated, and at a time when they actually played music videos. “Subdivisions” probably doesn’t make the Rush top five, but I’ve got a “soft spot” for that one, and this line is particulaly appropriate when discussing the contract quagmire:
Some will sell their dreams for small desires
See you tonight - Bitches!!
Oh, and IMO, I’d have started Conklin. Isn’t the Babcock company line something to the effect that: “if your playing good, you get the ice-time”?
Ozzie: 7-1-3, 3.31 GAA, .877 Sv%
Chronic: 5-1, 2.47 GAA, .914 Sv%
Just to make the numbers a little more clear, Ozzie faces 27.45 shots/game;
Chronic faces 29 shots/game. Too lazy to hunt the chances per game. But it would be hard to argue that the “D” plays any differently in front of either (except for the last game when they played much better in Chronic’s S/O).
Drawn like moths we drift into the city
The timeless old attraction
Cruising for the action
Lit up like a firefly
Just to feel the living night
Posted by Jeff OKWingnut from Hockey Netherworld on 11/20/08 at 09:47 AM ET
not that your point is ridiculous, its just ridiculous that your point is so accurate
Posted by rwingscup19 from Dallas on 11/20/08 at 09:49 AM ET
Conform, Okie. Conform or be cast out.
Posted by IwoCPO from Washington, DC on 11/20/08 at 09:49 AM ET
what is the difference between 7.5 and 6 in the grand scheme of things? i don’t think i could take care of my family with only 6 mil, but 7.5 would do it. ridiculous.
people live differently when they make millions, but everything is still relative. could you live on a 20% pay cut? LIVE, probably, how you are now, most people I think would be in the “no” category. You base your spending on things like mortgages, cars, clothes, etc. on how much you make. If you’ve got your life set up for living on 7.5 million, 6 mil would make it tighter. And every extra million is an extra million you can give to your kids.
I guess it all depends upon how each individual player has managed his money.
Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 11/20/08 at 09:51 AM ET
Funny Chief!! Really funny when I reflect that I spent my adolescent years doing my best to be a “non-conformist”, and now vice-versa. The irony.
It is also appropriate to the contract quagmire, isn’t it.
Can you picture Tick-Tock standing in the driveway of the players home (identical to oodles of others on the block), telling him to “conform or be cast out” i.e. lower your salary demand or go somewhere else.
Posted by Jeff OKWingnut from Hockey Netherworld on 11/20/08 at 10:00 AM ET
so if its true that under the new cba, contracts can’t be restructured (which i will assume to be the case since paul is the man) then i will make the following assumptions:
the NHLPA wanted that in the CBA to make sure the super stars keep getting paid, therefore setting the market
the NHLPA is more concerned about players getting paid than teams being succesful
the NHLPA is by definition an organization that represents the players views and thoughts.
therefore the players in the NHL, as a group, are more concerned about making sure that big name players get paid the most possible, thereby making their own salaries higher
therefore players in the NHL, as a group, are more concerned about getting paid than winning a cup
accurate?
Posted by rwingscup19 from Dallas on 11/20/08 at 10:01 AM ET
RW: Mostly accurate. The NHLPA is singularly concerned with promoting and protecting its members, the player. The NHLPA is therefore most interested in maximizing the amount of a players potential salary.
But, to use a line from above: “conform or be cast out”;
Not EVERY player is singularly concerned about getting the maximum dollar versus where they play; case in point is Hoss’ contract this season.
Your syllogism is accurate to a point, but there are exceptions too for the “home town discount”, ala Lidstrom.
Posted by Jeff OKWingnut from Hockey Netherworld on 11/20/08 at 10:09 AM ET
word Jeff.
Do contracts have to be approved by the NHLPA before they are legit?
Posted by rwingscup19 from Dallas on 11/20/08 at 10:20 AM ET
Do you creaky old bastards realize that my generation will probably reminisce and take polls about rappers? Skeet, skeet skeet!
RW19 brings up the point I was going to make. If Z, Mule and Hossome all take pay cuts, the NHLPA will not be happy; they’ve fought for their money and they don’t want other teams to be able to put “moral” pressure on their players.
One way it could work out is if the three all took pay cuts but for a very short term, like a year or two, so that they can be together for a while longer. More realistically, Z gets locked in long term and we keep Mule. Why? Because Mule will be cheaper and is another one we have invested a lot (intangibles, like mentoring among HOFers etc) into.
George, however, has the other theory. That we keep all three and dump all secondary guys like Hudler, Sammy, Kopecky etc. We can do this because the upcoming Grifs will step in for a cheaper rate. I’m not so sure because of Kenny’s “over ripe” theory.
Posted by Osrt on 11/20/08 at 10:36 AM ET
I think the case you make about the big 4 is plausable Chief. Why?
Hockey players as we all know, are the most like us, and more grounded than other sport’s primma donnas.
I voted for Triumph. Saw them at Royal Oak music theatre in the 70’s. Cool.
Posted by Jeff from Loveland, CO on 11/20/08 at 10:54 AM ET
I like George’s idea (I mean, who doesn’t!?), but I think it’s a pipe dream. You can’t just let Hudler, Kopecky, and Sammy walk and magically resign two $8 million players and one $5 million player. You’d have to buy out or trade a guy like Cleary. Maybe even Flip.
Here’s a thought: as an NHL player, what matters to you—the actual take home pay you’ll get, or your cap number?
Sign Z to an 8 year deal that is heavily front-loaded. Give him something like (from first year of the contract to the last year): 10, 10, 8, 6, 6, 4, 3, 3. He makes a shit-ton of money over the first three years of the contract, makes $50 million overall. He’s happy as a pig in shit. Tick-Tock’s happy because the cap hit is only 6.25/year.
That might be the ONLY way getting all three of these players is possible (combined with letting Hudler, Sammy, and Kopy go).
Posted by Nathan on 11/20/08 at 10:58 AM ET
I’d be remiss if I didn’t chime in while Rush is at stake here. There’s a song in the catalog with an ominous title, but apt given the bulk of what the topic at hand is here:
You don’t get something for nothing
You can’t have freedom for free
You won’t get wise
With the sleep still in your eyes
No matter what your dreams might be
Posted by HockeyJoe from Upstate New York on 11/20/08 at 10:59 AM ET
I can’t believe I’m not the solo Hip voter! After my last mention of it, I’d have thought they were the bastard children of Canada.....
could you live on a 20% pay cut?
Anyone making 6 miliion a year that lives paycheck to paycheck deosn’t deserve the opportunity if you ask me. There’s an invisible line in my working man linear mentailty here, once ya get to oh say 7 digits a year on a W2.... I just don’t wanna hear any whining about money. Period.
NHLPA is a union for a skilled trade. Same as many others. I’ll not start my ranting on “organized skilled labor” here.
Jeff,
“Be cool or be cast out”. Not conform of be cast out… for a little more Subdivisions for ya.
Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 11/20/08 at 11:04 AM ET
Anyone making 6 miliion a year that lives paycheck to paycheck deosn’t deserve the opportunity if you ask me.
not paycheck to paycheck, but people make plans, have investments, etc. and a 20% pay cut can have a large impact on those plans. SHOULD they be able to adjust their lifestyle and live fat and happy on 6 million? sure. so why not only 5 million? why don’t they all just take 1 million? that’s still a lot of money. here is the dilemma - if they accept 20% less, why not 25% less or 30% less? it’s a slippery slope, which enter the NHLPA comments above.
Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 11/20/08 at 11:15 AM ET
Life would be way too simple to sit back and enjoy
this Red Wing season…
Much more important to assume the fetal position,
huddled in the shadow of # 11, clininally depressed
because next years roster is not yet cut in stone.
Posted by HockeyTownTodd from upset when blogs dont live up to my expectations on 11/20/08 at 11:22 AM ET
If it comes true, I promise to come back to this spot and apologize, but: I think if anybody’s banking on Holland to get THREE superstar talents to take paycuts next year, they’re high. There is no way. We either trim the cap in other places or just sign 2 out of 3 and call it a summer. I think we forget sometimes that these guys aren’t from the Detroit area and didn’t grow up Wings fans ... expecting them to sacrifice large amounts of money to stick together seems a little foolish, but that’s just me.
Oh and it was hard to see any of the other bands with RUSH glaring at me as the first choice. Didn’t even bother to read the others.
Posted by Tyler from Lansing on 11/20/08 at 11:31 AM ET
I can understand people having investments, but isn’t Hossa rooming with Kopecky? I highly doubt he’s stretched himself out to the point where losing $750K a year is going to force him into eating Ramen Noodles and drinking Tab 3 meals a day. It goes to the heart of the point being made here. If this league truly is about winning and not just a money grab, these guys will find a way to stay here if they really want to. If someone is hard up enough for the cash then we’ll wave them on their merry way to a large paycheck. I’d hate to see any one of these guys leave, but it’s the ugly reality of the league nowadays and I’m pretty sure Tick Tock has his crew looking for the next Hoss/Franzen/Z. Let us not remember the mastermind working on this. I believe!
Posted by clemshady from Greenwood, SC on 11/20/08 at 11:32 AM ET
Nothing wrong with your logic, Chief...and the NHLPA really can’t say much about it (remember Kariya playing for $1M in Colorado?) The only question mark for me would be whether Franzen really thinks he could get 7.5M on the open market. The guy’s proven last season wasn’t a fluke, but he hasn’t proven that he’s a scoring forward in his own right...he’s just found a certain chemistry with one of the best players in the league.
Franzen signing for $6-7M somewhere else would be a HUGE mistake. His chances of maintaining this type of offense are slim, and he’d be crucified by the team’s fanbase. I hate to say it, but even with his performance so far, I still don’t value him above around $4.5M.
Posted by Gabriel from San Diego, CA on 11/20/08 at 11:32 AM ET
Err...let us not forget. Sorry, I’m still high from believing all 3 will sign again next year.
Posted by clemshady from Greenwood, SC on 11/20/08 at 11:35 AM ET
Sorry be the one who peed in your cheerios this morning, Chief.
The discussion made me think of another Rush song:
There is unrest in the forest, there is trouble with the trees
For the maples want more sunlight and the oaks ignore their pleas
I got to agree with HTT, let’s just enjoy the here & now.
Posted by mc keeper from The home of Lord Stan on 11/20/08 at 11:39 AM ET
The only question mark for me would be whether Franzen really thinks he could get 7.5M on the open market.
excellent point. I figure we’ll know one way or the other what he’s thinking when we start hearing in the early spring “we’re negotiating a new contract with Franzen” or we hear nothing. to me, nothing would mean he’s planning on testing free agency.
I think Hossa has already proven he’ll take less money in order to win. of course, will he do it twice? probably depends upon whether the Wings actually win it this year or not.
Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 11/20/08 at 11:40 AM ET
I got to vote in the poll! YAY! I had to vote for Rush since I’ve been converted to a huge Rush fan after seeing them in concert this summer at Red Rocks. I always liked them but seeing them live was really incredible (Geddy was right in front of us!).
Love Triumph and the Guess Who/BTO. Barenaked Ladies are another good Canadian band but they are all Leafs fans.
I am trying not to much to think about next year, really hoping that this year improves and wondering why Uncle Mike is not starting Conklin tonight. But what do I know?
Posted by hockeychic from Denver, CO on 11/20/08 at 11:41 AM ET
it’s a slippery slope, which enter the NHLPA comments above.
The players already bent over and took a 24% roll back, precedent set. Just sayin’.
And the escrow thing may bite them in the a$$ this year too and there’s what, another 10%.
If the OIl are paying Penner what they are (5+ mil IIRC).... the Mule’s sure worth that and then some… to SOMEONE that is.
Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 11/20/08 at 12:33 PM ET
While I don’t consider Neil Young’s stuff from 2005 to even hold a candle to his stuff from the 70’s, I found this quote from his song, ‘No Wonder’ pretty inline with not only the Red Wings but with also MacT’s current position in Edmonton:
Tick-tock
The clock on the wall
No wonder we’re losing time
Posted by clemshady from Greenwood, SC on 11/20/08 at 12:33 PM ET
If the OIl are paying Penner what they are (5+ mil IIRC).... the Mule’s sure worth that and then some…
$21.25M over 5 seasons, or about $4.25M/season. And everyone knew that was HORRIBLY inflated. Penner, with the season he’s had so far, may very well be the reason the Mule would get less on the market.
I think Hossa has already proven he’ll take less money in order to win. of course, will he do it twice? probably depends upon whether the Wings actually win it this year or not.
Well, whether he stays or goes, I think we - the 19 - need to start a movement among Wings fans that says no matter where he signs, he’s going to be applauded next season when he returns to the Joe. God forbid we act like many (not all) Pens fans and expect him to demonstrate any kind of loyalty to this team - that we should somehow be entitled to his services because doesn’t he know who we are? (Yes, it pisses me off that he led them to the Stanley Cup Finals and they’re actually going to boo him when he shows up in February. And they call us classless?)
If Hossa moves on, and even if he helps another team steamroll over us on their way to a Stanley Cup, I’ll still respect the hell out of him.
Posted by Gabriel from San Diego, CA on 11/20/08 at 12:49 PM ET
Much more important to assume the fetal position, huddled in the shadow of # 11, clininally depressed because next years roster is not yet cut in stone.
HTT, you crack me up. And not just because that was funny, but also because you assume I’m only stressed about next season. I’m pretty stressed about 2010-11 too. And don’t get me started on 2011-12.
When I think about what this team will look like in 2015-16, I start drinking.
Posted by Gabriel from San Diego, CA on 11/20/08 at 12:52 PM ET
I can’t believe I’m not the solo Hip voter! After my last mention of it, I’d have thought they were the bastard children of Canada.....
I’m not exactly their #1 fan, but I felt compelled to support the only band even remotely of my generation. Now that I think about it, I really don’t listen to much Canadian music. All I can think of are the Diodes, D.O.A., and Hugh Dillon. Oh, and I might have a Sunset Rubdown album somewhere…
I don’t want to get into the money argument again, particularly because I think it’s a totally valid decision to go where the money is--it’s not even necessarily greedy, I know people who have taken higher paying jobs just so they can give more to charity--but I really don’t think a 20% pay cut at those levels is going to affect anything but the size of those guys’ estates.
I can’t believe that Conklin’s not starting tonight, after how he played a couple days ago *against Edmonton*.
Well, whether he stays or goes, I think we - the 19 - need to start a movement among Wings fans that says no matter where he signs, he’s going to be applauded next season when he returns to the Joe.
Classy. I like it.
Posted by Sadie from Ann Arbor, MI on 11/20/08 at 12:54 PM ET
Although speaking of standards of living, my SO just sent me this: Lidstrom’s house
I honestly can’t decide what’s hotter in pic #4, Lidstrom or his car, but the doormat in pic #23 is definitely the most awesome thing ever.
Posted by Sadie from Ann Arbor, MI on 11/20/08 at 01:09 PM ET
Paul has a great point—much depends on how this all plays out over the season and the playoffs.
If we’re strong and healthy come playoff time, and just miss winning it, then the hunger will redouble for most everyone. If we take it down again, all good of course, but that might make it harder for guys to give up the extra dough. Except for Hossa, of course. This guy is the wild card—he’ll get a lot anywhere he goes, but he’s already walked from a pile of money to play here. How hard is that to do again? And remember too, that Franzen and his agent played tough last time around—and he wasn’t at this level back then.
But let’s not forget these are hockey guys. They tend to think a bit differently than your average pro athlete—mostly because of the tradition in the game and the near-mythic quality of winning the Cup. Let’s not forget they etch the victor’s names in it. That gets inside a guy’s head—it’s gotten inside of mine. And, sure, that may count more in North American heads than European heads, but we have to find hope somewhere.
You ask me today, though, and I think it goes as most expect. We sign Z and Franzen and Hossa departs, Cup or no.
Posted by Chris from DC on 11/20/08 at 01:10 PM ET
Sadie, you just depressed me. I guess these guys need the damned money.
Posted by Chris from DC on 11/20/08 at 01:14 PM ET
Well, whether he stays or goes, I think we - the 19 - need to start a movement among Wings fans that says no matter where he signs, he’s going to be applauded next season when he returns to the Joe. God forbid we act like many (not all) Pens fans and expect him to demonstrate any kind of loyalty to this team - that we should somehow be entitled to his services because doesn’t he know who we are? (Yes, it pisses me off that he led them to the Stanley Cup Finals and they’re actually going to boo him when he shows up in February. And they call us classless?)
If Hossa moves on, and even if he helps another team steamroll over us on their way to a Stanley Cup, I’ll still respect the hell out of him.
Gabe, I’m with ya. If/when he leaves, it wont be on bad terms. He deserves a warm thank you.
As we continue to beat this topic into the ground, count me among those who expects Z and Franzen next year, but not Hossa. Is that the best decision? I have no idea. Every game I come to a different conclusion.
I think it’s a safe bet that Sammy is gone. Kopy ....well that’ll depend on the rest of this season. I wouldnt be surprised to see Hudler gone either.
Regardless, I don’t see Kenny putting the team in a roster situation like this year where we’re not carrying a full squad due to cap requirements. That must drive him up the wall.
Posted by Nate A from Dark side of the moon on 11/20/08 at 01:20 PM ET
I find it really difficult to speculate on next year (other than to hope) because we are not guaranteed tomorrow, let alone next year. I always try to live in the now and not worry about the things I can’t control. Having said that, signing all 3 would be great but not if others have to be cast aside (Huds, Filp, Kopy etc.). This is, after all is said and done, a team that appears to believe in a family atmosphere. Let’s say Hossa leaves and Franzen explores the open market. The Wings will still be a team to be reckoned with but not THE team to be reckoned with. There will be no dynasties in the “new NHL”. This is the way Lil’ Gary wants it. Thanks. Ass.
Posted by calquake on 11/20/08 at 01:20 PM ET
I find it really difficult to speculate on next year (other than to hope) because we are not guaranteed tomorrow, let alone next year.
Year, but that’s just because you and I could find ourselves under water at any time. 
Oh, and HTT, it’s not like we’re not enjoying this season...there’s just not really a whole lot else to talk about right now. The signing situation is really the biggest drama we have...and for that we are all thankful.
Posted by Gabriel from San Diego, CA on 11/20/08 at 01:26 PM ET
What do I hope for? To sign them all to front-loaded contracts with minimal cap hits. Any of them that are concerned about making 3 million seven years from now need only to be reminded that the CBA can, and most likely will, be renegotiated in a year or two (thus raising the possibility of getting more toward the end of the long-term deals). Some clever dealings to outfox the cap. Perhaps an insane offer sheet for Hudler and a few players gone to make way for the Griffs.
What do I expect? Unfortunately, only Z and Hossa taking an annual hit of six to seven long-term, with The Mule and his hardball agent getting eight to nine million a year from some basement team, and for him to never have as good a season as ‘08-’09. Just ask Marty Lapointe.
I voted for Rush. Even though I don’t have to live with it because I won’t be at the liveblog. Kinda like how, even though I’m overseas, I voted for...oh, never mind.
Roll the bones.
Posted by AndrewFromAnnArbor from Fortress Europe on 11/20/08 at 01:39 PM ET
HTT, you crack me up. And not just because that was funny, but also because you assume I’m only stressed about next season. I’m pretty stressed about 2010-11 too. And don’t get me started on 2011-12.
When I think about what this team will look like in 2015-16, I start drinking.
Why would you be stressed out about 2010 and on? Yes, it would be nice to keep Hossa, but the bottom line is it would be SHOCKING if the Wings didn’t resign at least Z and Franzen, and probably Hudler as well. And even if they lost Franzen and/or Hudler, they would still be a VERY good hockey team for another 3 or 4 seasons, without even considering trades and FA signings, buyouts, so on and so forth…
Holland has done a great job setting this team up for success. Whether or not they can be as good in 2010, 11, and 12 as they were in 2008 depends on what guys like Helm, Abbadabbadoo, Ritola, Leino, Kindl, and Ericsson do at the NHL level. But even if only two of those guys pan out as solid NHL players, the Wings will still have a level of talent and quality of coaching to be a consistent playoff team that competes for their division (if not conference) every season.
Posted by Nathan on 11/20/08 at 01:45 PM ET
Why would you be stressed out about 2010 and on?
I was pretty much kidding, but if I had to find a reason to start worrying now? Lidstrom. His contract’s up, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him retire at the end of next season. Other than that, Homer’s contract will also expire…
Posted by Gabriel from San Diego, CA on 11/20/08 at 02:05 PM ET
“Yeah, but that’s just because you and I could find ourselves under water at any time”.
Gabe, as an aside, whenever I hear that said about California I have to laugh. I was speaking to a geologist a few years ago who informed me that when the ‘Big One’ does hit it is far more likely that San Francisco and San Diego will be closer to each other than the coast falling into the ocean. Who needs LA anyway… 
Posted by calquake on 11/20/08 at 02:24 PM ET
And they call us classless?)
Umm.. the booing of #91 isn’t exactly a tip of the hat for someone who did an awful lot for us. Granted it’s the bad taste left from when he bailed and all..... but I’d like to see one nice reception for him at the Joe.
I was pretty much kidding, but if I had to find a reason to start worrying now? Lidstrom.
BTW, Kenny jokes he retires as soon as Nik does.
Posted by MOWingsfan19 on 11/20/08 at 02:44 PM ET
I don’t think Kenny is joking. Explains why Stevie Y. is still around.
Posted by Nathan on 11/20/08 at 02:58 PM ET
No Helix option Chief? For Shame!
I went with The Guess Who, mainly because I’m one of the few up here who’s never understood the appeal of Rush. I like a couple of their songs, But i’ll take The Guess Who/BTO over them any day.
As for the contract dilemma, I’m thinking a bit different. Z’s gonna sign for the hometown dicount, I’m thinking either what Dats makes, or something around 7 mil. Hossa will sign for his same amount, maybe a little less, down to what Hank gets. But the Mule’s agent is gonna be an ass, and Kenny’s gonna tell them to walk.
But I’m still gonna believe in the Chief’s dream. It can happen. You’d probably get better odds on winning the lotto tonight, but it can happen.
And I actually get to watch a Red Wings game tonight! I’ve had to work every other time they’ve been on TV up here. The one bad thing about living out west, all the games are over by the time I’m done work, even when the Wings go to the west coast.
Posted by Alex from Innisfail, Alberta on 11/20/08 at 03:16 PM ET
Umm.. the booing of #91 isn’t exactly a tip of the hat for someone who did an awful lot for us.
Agreed, I really dislike that. He deserves a lot better. Although with Fedorov it was a different situation - Hossa was a rental player, while Feds was one of our franchise players - so I can almost (but not quite) understand the animosity. (Full disclosure? I never really warmed up to Feds again after the ‘98 holdout. But I still never boo’d the guy.)
Anyway, I don’t think the fans that boo Feds are doing it because he didn’t want to be a Wing anymore, I think they’re doing it because of a perceived flaw in his character. My evidence? Shanny. I’m pretty sure if he ever plays in the Joe again, he’ll get a hero’s reception.
Posted by Gabriel from San Diego, CA on 11/20/08 at 03:38 PM ET
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I’m not as up on the CBA as I should be....is it currently possible for players to “restructure” contracts like The Captain and others did in 2001-02 to sign Hull, Robitaille, Olausson and whoever else I am forgetting ??
Posted by mc keeper from The Home of Lord Stan on 11/20/08 at 09:04 AM ET