Abel to Yzerman
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Quenneville: Hossa May Start Next Season In Goal
by IwoCPO on 07/02/09 at 02:31 AM ET
Comments (302)
Here’s what you do when you reach the Conference Finals and you fall short. You spend some money. And you spend it with one thing in mind and that’s taking the next step. You came so close that getting past the team that beat you is an obsession. We know all this. The Wings have been there. Twice in the last twelve years. A Conference Finals loss does weird things to you.
In Chicago’s case, it led them to sign Marian Hossa and his Mini-Marian, Tomas Kopecky. They also signed John Madden. They became stronger and they are going to be giving the Wings one heck of a run for the Central Division title next year. We knew this the moment Hossa signed.
But…
Like I said, they’re going to have a real nice regular season.
Huet and Crawford. Is that the tandem that is going to unseat the Wings as Western Conference Champs?
Oh. We’ve got ourselves a barn burner. Don’t get me wrong. It’s got all the ingredients. A defection last year of a hockey god. Some good regular season games followed by a fairly decent playoff series where the vanquished got a bit violent at the tail end of each loss. Young Hawks learning how to lose. A cheap shot that affected the Wings for the Final. And now a superstar switching sides under our noses.
But rivalry or not, unless Dale Tallon makes one more move before April of 2010? This thing is nothing more than a regular season sideshow because the Hawks aren’t doing squat with that goaltending. And while the core of the Wings is locked up for the better part of the next decade? The three most important Hawks are all up for new deals next summer with precious little cap room to maneuver under.
Oh, and don’t forget the Wing Bitch behind the bench. Woops.
Table that. Yes, they’ve got Hossa so we’ll be talking Chicago all year. And we’re going to address his signing here in a few. First, though, forget about Chicago for a second and let’s strictly deal with what the Wings have in front of them. Here are the cards Tick Tock’s dealt Uncle Mike, and it looks like this hand isn’t going to change.
Zetterberg, Franzen, Datsyuk. Filppula, Cleary, Hudler (assuming).
Draper, Helm, Homer, Maltby, Leino (assuming). And at least one spot for one more whether that’s Abdelkader or a UFA. A core of twelve forwards as deep as any across the NHL.
Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Ericsson, Stuart (thanks George). A top five better than any in the league. Period. Add Lilja into the mix, subtracting Chelios and, somehow, Meech. Lebda stays unless something else better comes along and the blue line is still stacked.
And the inevitable regular season resurgence of Chris Osgood is a discussion for another time. Jimmy Howard’s place in the organ-I-zation is also tabled for now.
The depth isn’t what it was with Hossa. No getting around that. The firepower isn’t either. But a few things will make up for that, namely chemistry. Not to say it was bad with Hoss. I’m not claiming that. But I will say that I believe a team responds when the players who choose to stay...stay. Does that makes sense?
Now. It makes no difference how you feel about the departure of Hossa. It matters little to him and it definitely has no bearing on anything that happened the last twenty four hours. But it’s something to discuss because the emotion of this situation drives everything we, as fans and as readers of this blog, do.
Despite some sort of telepathic game I tried to play with Kenny Holland the last few months, where I honestly believed that every time I wrote “he’s staying”, Tick Tock was taking notes and nodding his head? The signing of Franzen probably sealed Hossa’s departure and the less reactionary of us understood and accepted that. There just wasn’t enough pizza dough to go around.
Oh. Re-phrase. There’s plenty of money to spend. But because of Little Gary’s lockout and his perverse CBA and the Cap number that he has flashing in neon next to the blown up picture of him and Rosby at Neverland Ranch? Because of all that, the money just sits there.
And because it does, Hossa had to move. He had to and we understand it. The idea that he’d stay for far less, that he’d take so much less to try and win again in Detroit...it could have happened, but we all knew the likelihood wasn’t great. And that’s not even really understanding all the economics of it. Maybe you do. I know I don’t. I’m certain I have no concept. Guess who does though? The anti-Digger.
Read this to see how Marian Hossa, when he made the decision to give himself one year’s run for a Cup, cost himself 30 million bucks.
So how do we handle this? Marian Hossa, on the surface, left Detroit...where he could have made forty-five million over ten, to play in Chicago where he’ll make approximately 1.2 or 3 million more per season. And while it is disturbing to see him go to a team obviously stacking up to compete with the Best Team in Hockey, you have to respect that he didn’t go to LA or somewhere else only to lose for 7 or 8/season.
And no, LA is not making the playoffs this year.
And he didn’t want to leave Detroit. Unlike last year, when his comments leaving Pittsburgh sent that city into a tailspin? Does this really piss you off? Are you Hossa haters now, after reading this?
“Ken was saying after he signed Henrik Zetterberg he was going to try to sign either me or (Johan) Franzen and you have to be happy for the guy (Franzen), he improved big time and he deserved everything he got. With the salary cap, it would be tough for me to return.,” Hossa said. “Otherwise, if there was no salary cap, I was sure I’d still be in Detroit.”
Not exactly, “I’m going to the team I feel gives me the best chance to win the Cup.”
Hate the guy if you want, but I know you won’t. Boo him if you must, but you won’t do that either. You’ll have three chances to do so if you want to, but I don’t see it happening. Economics forced his hand and his competitive nature sent him to a contender. It’s as simple as that.
It’s troubling that Chicago has another gun, but it’s not enough to cause me to break out the pitchforks or the voodoo dolls. The guy gave us a good run, a good shot and a good year. He gave himself one season to throw some caution and a lot of money out the window. Now it was time to get down to business and that’s what he did.
But, unfortunately for him and fortunately for us, his glove hand isn’t as good as his wrister. And the Hawks are going to need that glove a lot more come April or May.
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Comments
Not that I would expect the most arrogant hockey blogger in the world to ever get off his imaginary pedestal and start being a little humble.
Hey...good morning. Welcome to our blog. I hear ya. False expectations suck, don’t they?
I tried the whole humble thing once. Once. Didn’t like it. Didn’t really fit, you know? I’m a Wing fan.
Congratulations on your Cup. Nice to see you’re enjoying it. You have 48 Tuesdays left.
Posted by IwoCPO from Washington, DC on 07/02/09 at 03:55 AM ET
Those other 7 Cups you won in a 6-team league
Do we REALLY need to explain the Original Six AGAIN?!?
Oh wait, you’re a Pens fan. Of course we do.
The name is something of a misnomer, since there were other NHL franchises that ceased operations before 1942.
Get some Tradition, bitch. Then come back and talk all the trash you want.
Posted by AndrewFromAnnArbor from Fortress Europe on 07/02/09 at 04:03 AM ET
As for Hossa-- I wonder how fired-up the rest of the team will be next year to prove something, given that he’s gone to our current fiercest division rival?
As long as that translates to 100% effort every shift, every night, improvements in team defense and the PK, I’ll be happy.
Posted by AndrewFromAnnArbor from Fortress Europe on 07/02/09 at 04:04 AM ET
Finally, what I wrote on the last thread about the Hawks bears repeating here:
“Despite last night’s big free-agency splashes, I’m overall relatively unconcerned about Chicago. Sure, they’ve got some good players, but first of all, will they even play cohesively, as a team, rather than as a bunch of individual stars? Unless Scotty steps back behind the bench, they haven’t got the coach for it.
“Second, they’ve got tremendous firepower now, but are still suspect on the defensive side of things. They’ve got Madden, but he’s not the force of will he once was. Hossa and Sharp are good, but not great, backcheckers. Toews is still learning how to be a defensive forward (though perfectly capable of being a Selke winner once he does get this side of his game down), and Kane’s defense is pratically nonexistent. Don’t even get me started on guys like Burrish and Eager. Then we get to the defense corps. Keith and Seabrook are strong, but they can’t play thirty minutes a night and still remain fresh for the playoffs. Barring miraculous improvement, I don’t expect Barker & Campbell to be all that effective in their own end (Barker could improve and clean up his act, being young yet, but Campbell and his stupid carrot top is just too old and stupidly set in his stupid, stupid, ways. Did I mention he’s stupid?). Finally, the last line of defense. If Huet’s their starter, it’s worry time. He’s a good goalie when he doesn’t have to shoulder the lion’s share of the starts, and he’s NEVER been a playoff starter. Ride him all year and he’ll be even more tired when the playoffs start. They’d better hope Corey Crawford can step up.
“I suspect they’ll be winning games 6-5, having a few good complete games, and getting blown out of the water horribly some nights (again, like this last season). Individual play ahead of team play, and zero attention paid to defense in favor of scoring punch. Both of those were issues for us last year, and the Pens the year before that. Maybe there’s some sort of ‘Hossa Effect?’ That being said, the two often go together, I know.
“And then there’s the whole question of wilting in the pressure cooker of the playoffs. We know that at least two of their players (including the most important position in the postseason) are good for choke jobs…
Speaking of the playoffs, where’s Forklift to weigh in with some pithy commentary, or at least a “WOOOOOOOO! HOSSA MOTHERF*CKERS!” when you need him? “
Posted by AndrewFromAnnArbor from Fortress Europe on 07/02/09 at 04:05 AM ET
Do we REALLY need to explain the Original Six AGAIN?!?
Oh wait, you’re a Pens fan. Of course we do.
Andrew, the unspoken goal of this summer is much easier to attain then I could have ever imagined. That guy woke up, put his sock away, and started tip tapping. Angry Pens fan. Angry at our arrogance. Dismayed.
Awesome.
Posted by IwoCPO from Washington, DC on 07/02/09 at 04:07 AM ET
LGP8771
Like you said, the Wings have 4 modern cups to the Pens 3. Who’s the best organization in the league? During that same time, how many ECF have the Pens made it to? How many times did your beloved Pens miss the playoffs? How many 1st overall picks did you have to get in order just to get to where you are?
Don’t worry, your salary cap crunch will come soon enough. Your precious captain and his goofy sidekick (Crosby and Malkin or as I like to call them “the Ambiguously gay duo") are greedy as hell and eat up way too much cap space. You have such a great team that nobody is willing to take a hometown discount. Despite a one goal loss in game 7 in a Stanley Cup hangover year, Detroit is still the class of the NHL and will continue to be so for many years.
Posted by Cainer4Wingsglory from Ottawa on 07/02/09 at 04:08 AM ET
Regarding the first comment… Let’s let someone spear your captain in the nuts next year...oh, wait. You heard him life te cup so I guess we can all agree that Cindy has no nuts. Sounded lime my shitzu crying when he lifted Detroits cup.
Pitt is going to be out o the picture in 10 years. Cindy will hurt his ankle again and that will be the end of the Jackatorium age. Because he won’t produce anything other than eye liner after that.
The Wings? Honestly, don’t care. I will love them as long as I live. Not a fair weather guy. It’s a family thing. Goes back to the 50’s for my particular family. Can any Pitt fan say that?
And really. Don’t you have something better to do than read this blog? I don’t recall ever looking at a Pitt blog when we won last year. Didn’t care. Still don’t.
Anyway, sounds like this douche with the first post is simply trying to make themself better about winning 3 cups.
The school I went to taught me 11 is greater than 3 no matter how you cut it.
Posted by Eyesris from Chestertown, MD on 07/02/09 at 04:08 AM ET
Don’t get me wrong, I love the write-up Chief, but, Huet’s gonna step up. You don’t pay a guy that much and expect him to do otherwise. I’m already building a fort out of nearby sticks and a small tin foil hat.
Re: Bruce McLeod’s story, great, great post by Bruce.
The depth isn’t what it was with Hossa. No getting around that. The firepower isn’t either. But a few things will make up for that, namely chemistry. Not to say it was bad with Hoss. I’m not claiming that. But I will say that I believe a team responds when the players who choose to stay...stay. Does that makes sense?
Sure does. And that is why I’ll be watching the first preseason game FSD shows.
The tin foil hat has radioed in the reason I’m curious about this other #19:
But because of Little Gary’s lockout and his perverse CBA and the Cap number that he has flashing in neon next to the blown up picture of him and Rosby at Neverland Ranch?
Gaaaaah! My brain just crashed.
-
I’m still amazed trolls aren’t out enjoying their day in the sun…
Posted by Hippy Dave from San Francisco by way of Detroit on 07/02/09 at 04:12 AM ET
First off, the “Best Team in Hockey” right now is the Stanley Cup Champions, the Pittsburgh Penguins, until someone proves otherwise.
And on that - I think Pitt will prove it otherwise.
Posted by eyesris from Chestertown, MD on 07/02/09 at 04:15 AM ET
Sounded lime my shitzu crying when he lifted Detroits cup.
Eyesris I have no idea what that means but I like it.
Posted by Hippy Dave from San Francisco by way of Detroit on 07/02/09 at 04:19 AM ET
Even I, born and raised in Washington, know about the origins of the Original Six and I was raised in an area that didn’t have cable in the 1980s and had to read hockey digest to learn anything about the NHL.
Pittsburgh isn’t even the city of champions if you go by numbers of the 4 major sports. New York, Boston, Montreal, Chicago, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Detroit and Toronto are all ahead of Pittsburgh in aggregate championships amongst the 4 major North American sports.
Remove defunct teams, NBA titles and they’re still behind New York, Montreal, Chicago, Detroit and Toronto and tied with Boston.
I don’t understand the arrogance of Pittsburgh fans with their city of champions mythology and cult along with their continued arousal at the Chief’s pokes and prods.
About Hossa: shame he signed in Chicago but maybe this’ll boost the resurrected rivalry with the Blackhawks. It isn’t as if Dollar Bill killed the thing with his mismanagement of the Chicago franchise. I felt good about taunting my ‘hawks loving friend again instead of just looking at him in pity because his team was terrible year in and year out.
At least the Chief continues to ruin the summer for Pittsburgh fans; warms my schadenfreude laden heart to see him keep luring Pens fans into his trap.
Posted by 13194013 from Washington (not DC) on 07/02/09 at 04:23 AM ET
Heh. Sportscenter did their periodic 18-second hockey blurb, and mentioned the Hossa signing thus: “Maybe this means the Blackhawks will get to the Stanley Cup finals and then lose.” Poor guy is liable to have a cloud hanging over him like Eeyore for this curse.
I respect him for what he did with Detroit because he took a tremendous chance, and too bad for him it didn’t work out. Still, most players would never even try in the first place, so that took some guts. He wanted a long-term contract with a contender, and that’s just what he got. I can’t fault him for that - it isn’t his fault that Chicago isn’t in a salary crunch yet so they could afford him (or think they can) so he would have to go farther away. I hope he does very well next year - especially in games against St. Louis, Columbus, and Nashville, and his new teammate carrot-top has a hat-trick of giveaways in every game against Detroit to make any of his own efforts moot. 
Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 07/02/09 at 05:49 AM ET
Posted by Hippy Dave from San Francisco by way of Detroit on 07/02/09 at 05:12 AM ET
He looks so confused at his prize, because he didn’t know he was playing in Wimbledon. 
Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 07/02/09 at 05:55 AM ET
or as I like to call them “the Ambiguously gay duo”
Sweet SNL reference, Cainer. Only there’s nothing ambiguous about THAT relationship. I think Little Gary is jealous. Or it’s a menage a trois…
Dave? Dave? Uh oh, I think I’ve crashed his brain...again.
Huet’s gonna step up. You don’t pay a guy that much and expect him to do otherwise.
They can expect all they want, Dave. Whether he delivers is a whole ‘nuther frankfurter. Salary and expectations don’t change a guy’s game (see Campbell, Brian). As Plato once said, you can’t polish a turd.
(Or was that your point and I’m just missing it?)
Andrew, the unspoken goal of this summer is much easier to attain then I could have ever imagined.
Agreed, Chief, though it’s almost too easy. It’s like using a Ticonderoga-class boat to take out a robin. Doesn’t it leave you feeling a little...unfulfilled? Dissatisfied?
...Nah, me neither! Hey Pens fans! How’s the Jackatoreum this morning?
Posted by AndrewFromAnnArbor from Fortress Europe on 07/02/09 at 06:01 AM ET
I really do not think what happened in Chicago yesterday matters much in the grand scheme of things. Remember these two words Joel Quninnville.
I think that speaks volumes to what will be accomplished. You can have all the talent in the world but with Q as coach your not going to get it done. Not even with Scotty behind the curtain.
Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!
Posted by Kate from Pa. on 07/02/09 at 06:04 AM ET
Thid + Lil Gary = Unambiguous enough to avoid that title?
Posted by MarkK from Maryland on 07/02/09 at 06:43 AM ET
Chief, look at this way.
The classic battle between two of the most storied franchises in hockey just got better.
Humility, by the way, never hurt anybody...try it.
See y’all next season. Can’t wait.
HERE COME THE HAWKS...
Posted by davetherave from Ottawa, Canada on 07/02/09 at 06:52 AM ET
Humility, by the way, never hurt anybody...try it.
Pass. Thanks.
Posted by IwoCPO from Washington, DC on 07/02/09 at 06:54 AM ET
Hey Chief...Brad Stuart seems absent from your analysis of the Wings’ defenders. He helps, you know? 
Posted by George James Malik from South Lyon, MI on 07/02/09 at 06:57 AM ET
Pens trolls, again happier to complain about the Wings than they are to enjoy their own team’s victory and success. Funny, and pathetic.
Also, troll, keep in mind that Detroit never had a brush up with bankruptcy and wasn’t almost forced to move the team to KC/Vegas/Hamilton/wherever because the fans were so disinterested and the team was so bad they were running out of choices. You guys were oh-so-close to watching your team move away, and my money says most of the fans that run their mouth like this troll probably aren’t the die hards that would’ve actually cared if the Pens had been shipped outta town.
Posted by Nathan from Jonny Ericsson's ice cream truck on 07/02/09 at 06:58 AM ET
Hey Chief...Brad Stuart seems absent from your analysis of the Wings’ defenders. He helps, you know?
Posted by George James Malik from South Lyon, MI on 07/02/09 at 07:57 AM ET
Thanks George. Fixed.
Posted by IwoCPO from Washington, DC on 07/02/09 at 07:02 AM ET
This is what happens to the good teams - when free agency opens up, they lose players they either don’t want or can’t fit in. New Jersey is losing players, Pittsburgh isn’t adding anyone of note, Anaheim is resigning their own guys ... it just looks different because Detroit already signed Franzen and Zetterberg instead of dealing with their contracts right now.
All things considered, I’d rather be a fan of a team that doesn’t need a complete makeover or fill a bunch of holes or fly to beg a player to accept a trade (Run away from Heatley, Edmonton!) but focuses on signing a few of their own that they want to keep and holds a few spots open for minor leaguers ready for a full-time slot. It’s far more boring, but far less futile.
Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 07/02/09 at 07:13 AM ET
A real dynasty is the Edmonton Oilers winning 4 of 5 and 5 of 7, or the Chicago Bulls winning 6 of 8, or the NY Yankees winning 4 of 5, and the Islanders winning 4 in a row. Four of 11? That’s not a dynasty.
Can’t help but notice that none of these but Chicago had to deal with a salary cap. And even they got lucky with a number of players blossoming at the same time the Pistons started to fizzle out.
Posted by 42jeff from Minot, ND on 07/02/09 at 07:24 AM ET
Come on, it is just a little bit funny.
Hossa gets traded to the Pens at the deadline. Pens lose to the Wings in the Finals.
Hossa turns down the Pens offer to re-sign there, instead going to the Wings where he thinks, rightfully so, he has the best chance to win a Cup. Wings lose to the Pens in the Finals.
Hossa turns down the Wings 10 year $40+ million contract and takes only $1.2 or $1.3 million dollars per year more for only two more years to sign with the Wings oldest, most hated rivals.
I know, I know...the Pens didn’t have an entire season with him. He was basically a Stanley Cup martyr for them (us) that year. That doesn’t mean it hurt any less. The wound was still fresh from the Finals loss. You have a guy that us fans lived and died with, along with the rest of the team, for more than two months. And he played so well with Sid. We had pictures of 55 goal seasons from Hossa dancing in our heads...Crosby, of course, assisting on every single one of them. Instead of coming back and playing along side, quite possibly, the best playmaker in the league, he spurns us and signs with the team that just broke our collective hearts.
I know you guys understand the emotional investment we make in the players on our respective favorite teams every year. Especially during the playoffs. Satan went from bust in the regular season to getting a standing ovation after one goal and throwing a few haymakers in the playoffs. It’s the same thing everywhere.
I’ll be the first guy to admit that I’ve hated Hossa all year. I absolutely held a grudge. It was awesome to see him struggle and go goal-less in the Finals. I traveled from Connecticut back to Pittsburgh for the Pens/Wings game there in February. I paid $200 dollars per ticket. I booed that sonuva bitch every time he stepped on the ice and booed him even louder when he touched the puck. It may have been petty, but it was a blast! And, really, there was nothing to actually cheer about for us that game.
But, really, you guys SHOULD boo him...at least one of the times he comes back to Detroit, if for no other reason than it’s really f*cking fun. Haha. I, for one, wouldn’t hold it against you.
And, honestly, the only difference between Hossa with the Penguins and Hossa with the Red Wings is about 60 games. Stanley Cup Martyr.
I had a question, though. You guys don’t think that Hossa “standing up for” Crosby after the whole handshake thing led to any of this, do you? I mean, taking only a little over a million dollars more per year to a team that is, this year’s trip to the Western Finals aside, largely unproven instead of going back to the team that’s only a year removed from a Stanley Cup? Would those guys who spoke out about how much that whole thing upset them look at him differently, not respect him as much? You guys are always talking about how this team is a family...you don’t go against the family, right? I don’t know, it just seems a little fishy to me. It might just be me, though. I’m not an expert on all things Red Wings (rhymes). That’s why I come here.
Posted by Flashtastick56 on 07/02/09 at 07:32 AM ET
Also, troll, keep in mind that Detroit never had a brush up with bankruptcy and wasn’t almost forced to move the team to KC/Vegas/Hamilton/wherever because the fans were so disinterested and the team was so bad they were running out of choices. You guys were oh-so-close to watching your team move away, and my money says most of the fans that run their mouth like this troll probably aren’t the die hards that would’ve actually cared if the Pens had been shipped outta town.
Posted by Nathan from Jonny Ericsson’s ice cream truck on 07/02/09 at 07:58 AM ET
To be fair, Nathan, until Ilitch bought the team back in ‘82 from Bruce Norris, it didn’t look so good for the Wings. True, it wasn’t close to bancruptcy, but there was talk of moving the team elsewhere. I’m just glad that those days are behind us!
Posted by clemshady from Greenwood, SC on 07/02/09 at 07:33 AM ET
I had a question, though. You guys don’t think that Hossa “standing up for” Crosby after the whole handshake thing led to any of this, do you? I mean, taking only a little over a million dollars more per year to a team that is, this year’s trip to the Western Finals aside, largely unproven instead of going back to the team that’s only a year removed from a Stanley Cup? Would those guys who spoke out about how much that whole thing upset them look at him differently, not respect him as much?
No, I really don’t. I think Hossa was very honest - he wanted to play for a contender (and by making it to the conference finals Chicago is definitely that - at least for the moment), and he wanted a long-term, lifetime deal similar to Zetterberg’s. He already gave up a lot and took a chance by signing for one year. He could have continued to chase windmills, or do the smart thing and sign a deal that was still rich, but would never fully make up for the money he left on the table , with a team that seems to be a contender and has at least a chance to be good for the majority of his deal. He signed for exactly what he said he was looking for. It isn’t as though he said “the money isn’t important” and then signed for a ton with a horrible team. He was honest about what he wanted, and unfortunately Detroit didn’t have the cap space to accomodate him.
Without a salary cap, he stays a Red Wing. With it, he can’t fit on the roster with the other players already signed.
(BTW, the Four Habs Fans are also laughing at Huet as a starting goaltender, too - in between cursing Komisarek for signing with Toronto and wondering what Bob has been smoking to be collecting diminutive forwards like they are going out of style.)
Minnesota is interesting to me now. I’m waiting for the story on Havlat to come out, since there is more to the Chicago separation than has come out yet, and wondering how long it is before they sign Saku Koivu. This team could actually be fun to watch next year instead of a trap-fest - then everyone will get a better idea of how good the goaltending really is.
Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 07/02/09 at 07:50 AM ET
Flashtastick: good points and I’ll address a few of them.
I honestly meant to mention this when I posted this morning but I forgot. If you read here enough you’ll come to realize that’s not uncommon. Anyway...it is funny.
I read on Pensblog the other day where Stoosh said all he could do was laugh last year when the Wings signed Hossa. Ha, ha? No. Just...amazing how things sometimes work out and all you can do is shake your head kind of laughing.
The way this has panned out is crazy. Hossa leaves the Pens because they don’t have a shot of winning, joins the team that beat those Pens, loses to the team that he left, then leaves the team he joined for the team he helped beat. How can anyone be legitimately angry at that? Not me. It’s too strange.
As for Hossa’s defense of Rosby contributing to his not signing with Detroit? I don’t think that had anything to do with it. Ken Holland would have to be awfully petty to let something like that affect him. Brian Burke or Kevin Lowe? Absolutely. Sather or that fat piece of shit Pierre LaCroix? Yep. Them too. But not Holland and probably not Shero either.
Again, good comment. Enjoy your Cup.
Posted by IwoCPO from Washington, DC on 07/02/09 at 07:54 AM ET
And all the “dynasty” talk - if a team is a consistent threat to win over better than a decade, and wins championships multiple times over the course of that run (we aren’t talking the Atlanta Braves here, people), is that more or less like a dynasty than a team that has one phenomenal five year run amidst an otherwise unbroken ocean of suckage during which they have three or four championships? Is a short run more like an extended flash-in-the-pan or a dynasty?
I think there are different ways to define it, but I think that with the high level of luck involved in winning everything that an extended run of success is more reflective of good team management than just getting lucky. If players come and go and the coaching staff changes through time, and the team is still always somewhere in the mix, that is very impressive. Detroit is like that, the Devils are like that - when you think that teams like Pittsburgh and Chicago are going to have to be solidly competitive every year for the next decade to match them, it really puts in perspective how hard it is to maintain (especially when you never have the high draft picks).
Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 07/02/09 at 07:58 AM ET
I had a question, though. You guys don’t think that Hossa “standing up for” Crosby after the whole handshake thing led to any of this, do you?
I hadn’t considered that, but there does seem some merit in it. I doubt it made much of an impact, but there were times when it did seem that Hossa didn’t really fit in with the team. Seemed that for a while he would respond negatively to being “relegated” to the second line in Detroit.
One thing I’d like to address is everybody saying stuff like “oh, it was so close. He ONLY took $1.2 million more per season.” First off, have you ever seen $1,200,000? Also, take that, multiply it over a decade, add two years, carry the one and you get a deal that’s worth $22,000,000 more than what he got offered in Detroit. This means that the Chicago deal is way more front-loaded than the Detroit deal was, that gives him guaranteed money during years he’s most likely to actually still be playing. So really, there is not a small difference between what he left on the table in Detroit to sign for in Chicago. If anybody thinks that, I’d be more than happy to take that extra $1.2 million you have laying around and put it to good use.
Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 07/02/09 at 08:16 AM ET
Geez are the trolls ever going to leave and enjoy their summer of Stanley? Funny that this is more important to them.
Posted by Bent from The U.P. on 07/02/09 at 08:16 AM ET
If anybody thinks that, I’d be more than happy to take that extra $1.2 million you have laying around and put it to good use.
Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 07/02/09 at 09:16 AM ET
Could you loan me some, then? I could use a few bucks.
Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 07/02/09 at 08:24 AM ET
“Those who STAY will be CHAMPIONS”
Whoops....wrong board!
Posted by thethirdcoast from Rottenchester on 07/02/09 at 08:36 AM ET
My only thought about Hossa.
You guys keep hanging your hat on “It’s different this year...it was a salary cap move, etc etc.” If you’re gonna try to stand on a pedestal and show how you’re reacting to Hossa leaving you in a more respectful manner, then you have to realize that it was DIFFERENT for us, too. It’s not a one-way thing. Yes, Hossa didn’t leave you for the team that beat you, but he didn’t tell you that Chicago had the best chance to win the Cup. He did that to us. If you’re gonna go back to “it’s different this year,” then you have to accept that it was different last year. Pittsburgh fans had every right to be shocked that the guy who said he’d do everything to be back, slapped the team in the face by declaring the team he lost to was his new destination.
And to the idiot that said this:
quote]Your precious captain and his goofy sidekick (Crosby and Malkin or as I like to call them “the Ambiguously gay duo") are greedy as hell and eat up way too much cap space. You have such a great team that nobody is willing to take a hometown discount. Despite a one goal loss in game 7 in a Stanley Cup hangover year, Detroit is still the class of the NHL and will continue to be so for many years.[
That’s just sheer ignorance on your part. How about blast Ovechkin for being greedy, with his 9.5 salary. AO, Sid and Geno are arguably the top 3 talents in the league. But in Pgh, two studs choose to take less than 9 a year when they could’ve demanded 10+. But having two Hart nominees (one winner) and scoring champs (and now Cup winners) locked up for 8.7 is a bad thing, but having 16-18 invested in your top 3 and another 16 invested in your top 3 defensemen is better? Your third highest paid forward is making 5.5, ours is making 3.5-4. Brooks Orpik took a hometown discount when he could’ve demanded a raise in the outrageous numbers that the Rangers were throwing at defensemen last year. Guerin just took a discount. Scuds is doing everything possible to make it work with Pittsburgh. Talbot, a known Wing killer, signed an extension at just over a mil a season. Blanket statements like you just made are incredibly stupid.
Posted by tecmo on 07/02/09 at 08:46 AM ET
I am enjoying the Cup, thanks Chief. It’s still a little bit unreal that it actually happened.
I don’t really think Holland would let something like that affect (effect? I always get them mixed up...) his decision to re-sign Hossa, either. He DID offer him a 10 year deal worth about $45 million. I was more or less thinking maybe Hossa himself would have been uncomfortable coming back after sort of disappearing in the playoffs and Cup Finals (ie, letting his teammates down), then coming out and making the statements about the Crosby handshake thing. Maybe. I don’t know. I was more going along those lines, though.
I forgot about all that front-loading contracts stuff when I was posting...and I did put the only in quotes. Because “only” $1.2 million more is a ridiculous comment. If I could make 1/2 that much in a year I’d consider myself successful...Jesus H, even if I made 1/4 of it. These guys who want to play for championship teams that take paycuts to do so would “only” take $3 million instead of $5 million...because they make that crazy amount of money. That’s probably what most of people that post and say that sort of thing mean. They just don’t actually think about it in those terms. But, basically, he’ll probably be getting the same kind of money Gaborik will be for the next 5 or 6 years (if not more), then it’ll go down.
Posted by Flashtastick56 on 07/02/09 at 08:55 AM ET
You won 4 Cups in 11 years - that’s pretty damn good, but last time I checked 11 years was over a decade.
It’s also better than any other team in the past 11 years.
Thus: The best team in hockey.
Maybe not the best team in a 7-game span, but the best team in hockey/
Posted by Garth on 07/02/09 at 09:05 AM ET
Don’t get me wrong, I love the write-up Chief, but, Huet’s gonna step up. You don’t pay a guy that much and expect him to do otherwise.
Except that history isn’t neccesarily on his side. Look at the guy who replaced him last year. He was a disappointment when he signed his big deal. In fact, goalies who sign big deals lately seem to be the ones most likely to fail.
He played well in the couple appearances he made against Detroit in the playoffs, but that’s a guy who was replaced and needed to step up. Instead of a fresh goalie, this year he’ll be expected to start 65-70 games and won’t get much relief from Crawford.
Sure, you sign a guy to a big contract and EXPECT him to do otherwise, but based on last year? And based on Khabibulin last year? I expect him to step up.
In his contract year.
Posted by Garth on 07/02/09 at 09:11 AM ET
Hey guys. Don’t worry, the last team that lost Hossa and Conklin went on to lift the Cup the following year (/vomit)
Can we fit any UFA into the team? Not some impact player, just an experienced man so we don’t have to bring up Yaba and some others?
Dandenault is still available, and maybe he wouldn’t ask too much for us. Marcel Goc could be cheap, but he is from San Jose, that may be worst karma than Hossa’s (and he scores as often as I would). Fedotenko would cost us, but the guy’s a freackin-Cup magnet. And maybe Koivu would take a discount for “a chance at the Cup”. Arnason and Pyatt are nice players. What do you think?
(Max Talbot wanted revenge for Hossa leaving: he scored on us. Now Kronwall wants revenge for Hossa leaving: that’s gotta hurt)
Posted by Guilherme from Brasil on 07/02/09 at 09:12 AM ET
It’s also better than any other team in the past 11 years.
Thus: The best team in hockey.
Maybe not the best team in a 7-game span, but the best team in hockey/
Why do you use the past to define your greatness? I’ll bring football into this for a sec. After winning the Super Bowl this year, Steelers coach Mike Tomlin said he wasn’t looking to repeat. He understood that the 2009-10 Steelers were going to be a different team, as were all other NFL teams. Some players that won a ring in Pittsburgh in 08-09 wouldn’t be there in 09-10. As soon as the Super Bowl was over, and some schlubby reporters were looking for a “I wanna repeat” quote, Tomlin showed the world that he was ready to look to the future.
You won 4 Cups in 11 years. Awesome. Those Cups don’t mean anything more than an awesome memory. As of right now, the Penguins are the best team in hockey. Once the season starts, its open game for everyone. Quit relying on the past to define the present.
Posted by tecmo on 07/02/09 at 09:15 AM ET
Get some Tradition, bitch. Then come back and talk all the trash you want
Tears.
In.
Eyes.
Posted by Red Winger from Sault Ste. Marie on 07/02/09 at 09:18 AM ET
Can we fit any UFA into the team? Not some impact player, just an experienced man so we don’t have to bring up Yaba and some others?
I’m not sure Detroit needs to. Helm and Ericsson are ready for regular spots, if they can keep both Leino and Hudler ... do they even have any roster spots they need to fill for a full roster? They aren’t in bad shape.
Besides, remember how they wound up with Cleary? He was an unsigned tryout at training camp. Before anyone gets crazy, I’m not saying that they are going to find another Dan Cleary, but even if they don’t sign anyone in the next day or two doesn’t mean that they will have to rush someone like Abdelkader in the fall. They might find a useful piece off the scrap heap to fill a spot for a year, and that might be all they really need.
Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 07/02/09 at 09:19 AM ET
But, really, you guys SHOULD boo him...at least one of the times he comes back to Detroit, if for no other reason than it’s really f*cking fun. Haha. I, for one, wouldn’t hold it against you.
Posted by some douchebag
You would…
Posted by Sullyosis from A hateful lair in Post Apocalyptic US (or Arizona) on 07/02/09 at 09:22 AM ET
As of right now, I don’t think anyone is the best team in hockey because no one is playing hockey right now. It’s July and baseball season.
Quit using the past to define the present.
Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 07/02/09 at 09:23 AM ET
As of right now, I don’t think anyone is the best team in hockey because no one is playing hockey right now. It’s July and baseball season.
So you’ll call me out on a technicality though my team is the REIGNING Cup champion (from less than a month ago, mind you), but not the countless Wings fans that repeatedly spew 4 IN 11!
Awesome
Posted by tecmo on 07/02/09 at 09:28 AM ET
this board lives in the past
the truth is that the pens are rising and the wings are fading, you guys had a great run, and lidstrom is looking pretty old.
Posted by jon from wv on 07/02/09 at 09:30 AM ET
Yes, Hossa didn’t leave you for the team that beat you, but he didn’t tell you that Chicago had the best chance to win the Cup. He did that to us.
What you Pens fans don’t get though is that it was TRUE when it happened. He looked the Pens, looked at the cap, saw that they traded away the rights of a guy who was obviously not going to re-sign, looked at how much space you had and it was TRUE. If you had signed him, you’d have a roster filled out with AHL callups who weren’t ready for primetime, rather than Chris Kunitz, Satan, Fedotenko and Guerin.
He didn’t “do anything” to you.
And Christ, what do you expect him to say? Someone signs with a team and they have to lay on the positive quotes. To see it as a knock against your team rather than a stock answer that comes right from the “What to say when you sign as a free agent” handbook is both naive and INCREDIBLY arrogant.
Why is it so hard for people to understand what he said and why he said it?
Posted by Garth on 07/02/09 at 09:35 AM ET
the truth is that the pens are rising and the wings are fading
Posted by jon from wv on 07/02/09 at 10:30 AM ET
You guessed this from a 7-game series decided on a one-nut Captain jump? You’re smart
Posted by Guilherme from Brasil on 07/02/09 at 09:38 AM ET
you don’t go against the family, right?
It’s not quite the mafia, and I’m not sure I would enjoy that analogy.
Posted by MarkK from Maryland on 07/02/09 at 09:40 AM ET
Is there any reason to talk about the team we cared about most this past season? The Sharks? Has anything of note happened there since Round 1?
Posted by MarkK from Maryland on 07/02/09 at 09:42 AM ET
the truth is that the pens are rising and the wings are fading
Posted by jon from wv on 07/02/09 at 10:30 AM ET
You guessed this from a 7-game series decided on a one-nut Captain jump? You’re smart
Posted by Guilherme from Brazil on 07/02/09 at 10:38 AM ET
Decided by one goal, no less.
Posted by Bent from The U.P. on 07/02/09 at 09:42 AM ET
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First off, the “Best Team in Hockey” right now is the Stanley Cup Champions, the Pittsburgh Penguins, until someone proves otherwise.
Not that I would expect the most arrogant hockey blogger in the world to ever get off his imaginary pedestal and start being a little humble.
You lost, buddy. You’re not the best team in hockey. And Hossa was wrong. Yeah, it sucked for us Pens fans when he said that, it was a slap in the face. But that’s meaningless now because the Pens proved him wrong! He’s become a joke in Pittsburgh, especially after doing NOTHING in the Finals with such a great team around him.
You won 4 Cups in 11 years - that’s pretty damn good, but last time I checked 11 years was over a decade. A real dynasty is the Edmonton Oilers winning 4 of 5 and 5 of 7, or the Chicago Bulls winning 6 of 8, or the NY Yankees winning 4 of 5, and the Islanders winning 4 in a row. Four of 11? That’s not a dynasty.
And by the way, this is to a few of the Wings fans at HFBoards - the score against Pittsburgh is 4-3. Since 1967, when the Pens came into the league, that’s the number of Cups Detroit has won - 4. Those other 7 Cups you won in a 6-team league when the Pens didn’t exist yet and hockey was a total novelty and most Americans didn’t know about it, and you were 3rd out of 6 teams in # of Stanley Cups won. The Habs and Leafs were better than you. I’m not saying those 7 Cups don’t count. I’m just saying it’s ridiculous and it makes you look stupid when comparing them to Pittsburgh’s Cup wins.
Where do you guys get your sense of entitlement? A mere 14 years ago, when I started watching hockey as a kid, you lost in the Finals to the Devils. Not very different from the Pens losing to the Wings last year when you think about it. You went 42 years in a row without winning the Cup. Ouch.
I’ve refrained from commenting in here before, but Chief, your arrogance is pathetic now that the Red Wings are no longer champs. I’d like to believe most Wings fans aren’t this arrogant. A lot of your posts are pretty damn good, but a lot of them suck. And I know this comment is totally off topic… Deal with it.
Waaaaaaah waaaah we can’t keep Hossa because of the salary cap waaaaaaaaaaah.
Hahahahahaha! Priceless!
Posted by LGP8771 on 07/02/09 at 03:37 AM ET