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Addressing The Red Wings ‘Decline’
by Paul on 09/29/09 at 10:40 AM ET
Comments (16)
from Craig Custance of the Sporting News,
The interview had been over for a good 15 minutes when Mike Babcock re-emerged from a nearby room.
“Let me edit that story,” the Red Wings’ coach said while walking briskly toward a reporter sitting behind a laptop. Something had irked Babcock, though the glint in his eyes suggested he also might be teasing—a little. Maybe.
“You guys have been writing that story since I got here,” Babcock said before being sidetracked by another interview request.
So what was the topic that bothered Babcock? It was the suggestion his Red Wings are on the decline.
It’s not a new idea, but this year there’s a new wrinkle: Pittsburgh has put itself in position to replace the Wings as the model NHL franchise, the team everyone wants to beat, the team on the cusp of a dynasty. All because of one Game 7 loss.
If the Red Wings win one more game last season, we’re talking possible three-peat. Instead, we’re wondering whether the reigning champ Penguins will become this generation’s Edmonton Oilers, with Sidney Crosby playing the part of Wayne Gretzky.
Filed in: NHL Teams, Detroit Red Wings | KK Hockey | Permalink
Comments
So a team wins 1 Cup and suddenly the word “dynasty” gets tossed around?
Posted by Primis on 09/29/09 at 11:22 AM ET
Primis,
Yeah, I’m not all about that either. The NHL isn’t how it used to be in the old days when you knew the Islanders and Edmonton were just going to roll over opponents on their way to Cups. Nowadays it doesn’t matter how good you are, it’s still very difficult to win a title.
Posted by Geno71 on 09/29/09 at 12:32 PM ET
It’s absurd to say the Penguins are/are in the process of replacing Detroit as the model NHL franchise.
The Penguins were on the cusp of being forced out of Pittsburgh. The team was bankrupt. Nobody watched the Penguins. Excuse me for simplifying it, but if the draft lottery had pulled any other franchise’s name as the destination for Crosby, I sure think that would’ve been the end of it. Beyond winning the Crosby sweepstakes, the Pens tanked a few seasons running, allowing them to pick four as-close-to-can’t-miss prospects as you’ll ever get.
Detroit resurrected itself in similar fashion with the draft of Steve Yzerman—which they lucked into, as well, in a way. But the story of Detroit’s rise from moderate playoff threat in the late ‘80’s is built on the organization’s willingness to do what no other team had done before with their scouting overseas, and their ability to get players over to North America afterward. It’s a far different story than picking stud players at the top of the draft a half-decade straight.
Since then, they’ve learned how to win their division. And their conference. And the regular season title. And then the Cup. And the Cup again. Then after a few disappointments, they had to remake a portion of their squad. And won the Cup. Oh, and then, everyone on that team retired. So they decided to still dominate the division, all the while transitioning the team to a new cast of core players that went to the Western Conference final, won the Cup, and lost in the Cup final three years straight. And they still have that same core of players today.
All the while, they have had the same, stable, financially secure owner. They have had almost the same front office, with a few additions, a few subtractions, and some sliding of titles/personnel.
My point is not that Pittsburgh can’t be the new model franchise—my point is that becoming a model franchise isn’t a one or two year process. It’s a decade-long thing. Let’s talk about the Pens in 2015 and see if they’re the model franchise. Detroit has been able to continue to be one of the two or three best teams every season since 1995, through two labor disputes and one radical change in the way the game works (both on the ice and off of it). So talk to me about Pittsburgh being the model when they survive the inevitable massive changes that are going to happen when the current CBA expires and the players fight back, and come through it and win another Cup with a team that’s missing a Crosby, or a Malkin, or a MAF.
Being a “model franchise” doesn’t necessarily mean you’re the best on the ice. There’s a lot more to an entire franchise than what happens on the ice. And with all due respect to every other club in the league, I don’t think anyone is in the same echelon as the Wings when it comes to being an entire franchise. There’s how they take care of players and personnel, past and present. There’s how they continually make more with less out of the draft. Or how they’ve built a philosophy that extends to Grand Rapids in the AHL.
Hell, I’d argue that as a franchise, despite being in hockey purgatory, Nashville is arguably the best franchise in the league for the way they draft and develop players, the way Trotz and Poile do more with less and create a culture of hard work and integrity, and the way they keep getting those things done with so much less than teams like Detroit and Pittsburgh have thanks to the crummy ownership situations they’ve been stuck in.
There’s no doubt the Pens are building something great, but they’ve got a long way to go to be the model franchise, especially when they’re all too distant past has some serious black marks on it.
I am not saying the Penguins can’t get there—they have the types of franchise players to keep it up on the ice, and they have a GM and coach that are quickly proving they are for real. What I am saying is that the right way to report this story is to say that they have that sort of potential, not that they are already the model franchise. Frankly, I think that’s insulting when you look at the hard work and talent that has gone into building the Red Wings since 1993, and the fact that Detroit has a long-term body of work to point to, where the Pens really only have a season or so.
Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 09/29/09 at 12:50 PM ET
what he ^ said.
Posted by special k from the windy city where wagons roam freely on 09/29/09 at 01:07 PM ET
Nathan, I’ll repeat my post from the A2Y thread…
They need a lead blogger, you should be it. There I said it.
Posted by Animal Drew from A Nightmare on Helm Street on 09/29/09 at 01:15 PM ET
That is crazy. Pittsburgh is a very good team, but winning one cup does not make you the ideal franchise.
Posted by BrianS on 09/29/09 at 01:28 PM ET
There’s no doubt the Pens are building something great, but they’ve got a long way to go to be the model franchise, especially when they’re all too distant past has some serious black marks on it.
Nathan hit the nail on the head (and then kept hitting until he drove it clear through the board). The media just can’t wait to annoint the Pens as the greatest team that ever played hockey…and Custance’s “article” is a big step in that direction.
Look. As Nathan pointed out, the Pens went from nowhere to the spotlight primarily because they sucked so bad four years running that they were practically handed the core of an excellent team. They’ve reaped the benefits of that for the past two years (and will do so again this year). But next year is the year they’ll have to come to grips with the true cost of those gifts.
When Pittsburgh begins next season, they’ll have over $34M tied up in just six players (Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Kunitz, Orpik and Fleury). And they’ll probably have to pony an additional $5M if they want to keep Gonchar. That will leave them about $15M with which to pay the remaining 15 players…and they’ll only have two top-six defensemen signed (Orpik and Goligoski).
If Shero can navigate those rough waters and still put a contending team on the ice (the way Holland has with the Wings), well, then we can start talking about Pittsburgh being a “model franchise”. Right now, they’re simply a good model of what a franchise should do if they suck bad enough to get four “franchise players” in four consecutive drafts.
Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids on 09/29/09 at 01:51 PM ET
Detroit has been a mainstay atop the NHL standing since the early-mid 90’s.The one thing that hasn’t changed on the ice is Nick Lidstrom. The fact that they have had the best defenseman in the last 20 years has alot to do with them being a model franchise. They’ve won without Yzerman, Fedorov & Shanahan. They’ve won without Datsyuk and Zetterberg, but they have never won without Lidsrtom in the past 20 seasons. I like to see how they do when he’s not around anymore.
Or maybe it’s just Draper & Maltby [joke]. What ever the reason they are the model franchise right now.
And I agree with Nathan, if Pittsburgh can stay atop of the east and win some more Cups over the next 5-10 seasons then you can put Pittsburgh in the same category as Detroit. But I also think Pittsburgh is the model of how to get from the bottom to the top. Alot of teams (NYI,Atl.,Pho.,ect.) have been on the bottom like Pitt but not many if any have turn it around as fast. The next step is to stay on top like Detroit.
Posted by Lindas1st from New England on 09/29/09 at 02:31 PM ET
But I also think Pittsburgh is the model of how to get from the bottom to the top.
They’ve definitely turned their franchise around, but “get either the first or second overall pick each year for four years” isn’t exactly a model.
Detroit is the model of how to develop a franchise longterm. Compare those four draft picks with the guys who are probably Detroit’s top four.
Lidstrom: 53rd overall
Datsyuk: 171st overall
Zetterberg: 210th overall
Franzen: 97th overall
And yeah, Lidstrom has been around for the entirety of Detroit’s run, but so what? In fifteen years, as a Pens fan, if Pittsburgh wins another 3, 4, 8 cups are you going to say “Yeah, we’re good, but we’ve had Sid Crosby, so we don’t deserve that much credit”?
Doubt it.
Pittsburgh’s an excellent team, but hardly a model.
It’s a much more feasible model to “draft and develop” rather than “get 4 top-2 picks in a row”.
Posted by Garth on 09/29/09 at 02:57 PM ET
@ Garth ,point Taken.
My point was that there have been bad teams in the past that have had a string of high draft picks and did nothing in the standing.
From a Organ-I-zational stand point, front office, scouting, drafting, player devolpement, coaching, off ice leadership and production on the ice, Detroit is the model NHL franchise.
Posted by Lindas1st from New England on 09/29/09 at 03:15 PM ET
One other point, it’s not just that the Penguins drafted high, it’s that in those particular drafts there was HOF talent at the top.
They were vey lucky in the fact that when they were terrible it was at the best time to be terrible. Not to mention the lottery they won after the Lock-Out to secure the ‘05 #1 overall pick.
Posted by Lindas1st from New England on 09/29/09 at 03:22 PM ET
Same old story, different season. One would think after 10 years these hockey writers could come up with a new byline to start off the season. Blah,blah,blah,blah, blather.
Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!
Posted by Kate from Pa.-made in Detroit on 09/29/09 at 05:06 PM ET
Pittsburgh Penguins = Florida Marlins of hockey?
There are some parallels.
Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 09/29/09 at 05:41 PM ET
...there have been bad teams in the past that have had a string of high draft picks and did nothing in the standing.
Leave the Lions out of this dammit.
Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids on 09/29/09 at 06:28 PM ET
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I expect the red Wings to be as good as last year and make a deep run. The SCF was as even as it gets and they could be going for a three-peat
Posted by Randy from Butler PA on 09/29/09 at 10:59 AM ET