I suggest he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Many bloggers, including the humble ones that work on this site, do talk about the negatives surrounding blogs in the hockey world, and hold their blogs to a high standard as a way to combat the negatives that many blogs draw to the hockey blogging persona.

Case in point—we all know of a certain “blogger” that gives a horrible reputation to hockey blogging. Well, this site and its stable of bloggers with integrity and an understanding of both the power of the blog as well as the pitfalls of it, have consistently done what they can to condemn “bloggers” like that certain “blogger”.

Not only have they plainly spoken out against them, but just look at the content on this site! They’ve let their actions speak louder than their words by providing content that IS quality, that HAS lots of value and TRUTH to it, and doesn’t maliciously try to misinform. Yes, the very nature of blogs, including this site and all its great contributors, is that there will be more opinion and bias in each post you read. But never does this site outright lie and fabricate (yes, the Mike Babcock Consolidated Quote of the Day is a joke people… not malicious) things about the game we love to peddle their agenda for their team, or to gain more hits to make their ad-click revenue increase… and they certainly don’t produce filth and charge a “subscription” fee for it!

I suggest that Jason Greger spend a little more time in the hockey blogger world. When a bad hockey blogger rises to the surface spreading lies and taking advantage of readers, the good bloggers are the first to condemn it. Further, these quality bloggers are watchdogs for the mainstream media (gee, how many rumors can cough cough Bruce cough cough Garrioch cough cough fabricate and still keep his job?).

So, to end this long-winded, nonsensical rant, I’d like to tell Jason Greger that perhaps those in the MSM, or at traditional media outlets like himself ought to talk about the positives of the hockey blogging world a little more. Greger would do a service to us all as hockey fans if he would talk about the great bloggers with integrity (like those here at KK, or crossover acts like Mirtle) and direct people in their direction, that way people new to the hockey blogging world have a good first impression. Let the good promote the good, and the bad will be forced out naturally, as they should be!

Posted by Nathan on 10/20/08 at 01:57 PM ET

A sports radio talk-show host accusing someone of spreading rumours and misinformation. That’s rich.

Posted by Josh from Montreal on 10/20/08 at 02:37 PM ET

Great comment Nathan.  I would hope many of the MSM and those associated with NHL teams would read your response.

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 10/20/08 at 02:38 PM ET

Very nicely said, and regardless of who you speak of I’m sure we’re all always glad to get another vote of confidence. I aired my thoughts an hour ago on the subject, and it was a nice calming moment. I can agree that there is a problem with misinformation campaigns, slanderers, and those who never think about what they write - before, during, or after the fact - and the potential consequences of their actions.

We think that we are held without standard, but I am somehow drawn to the thought of the self-regulating bodies (such as those who would call themselves engineers, governed here in Ontario by the Professional Engineers of Ontario). To call oneself a professional engineer, individuals and companies must meet certain requirements, and PEO also handles discipline in the cases where things get hairy. Similar institutions are the College of Physicians and Surgeons for doctors or the Law Society of Upper Canada for lawyers.

While there is no such thing for bloggers and other Alternative Mainstream Media (AMSM), there is still a degree of self-regulation. I’m sure there’s some reason that Paul, for whom KK is a full time job, put his reputation on the line to add several new contributors to his site, and should we step out of line I am confident that it would show up in the comments, in his inbox, and eventually with our removal from the site, though Paul knew our work well when he brought us on board.

As Peter Parker was told by his dying Uncle Ben, with great power comes great responsibility. Most bloggers have no great power, and so no great responsibility comes with it, though some take the freedom of expression they have on the web to be power enough to display a great deal of responsibility. The more that AMSM is aknowledged as a valid contributor to the League, and perhaps the sooner we can differentiate it from bloggers who tarnish and take away from what we do, the easier it will be to establish the trust, responsibility, and mutual respect necessary for a healthy and fruitful cooperation.

Posted by SENShobo from Waterloo, ON on 10/20/08 at 02:39 PM ET

Thanks for the comments guys!

I just realized I spelled his name wrong… Gregor, not Greger… oh well!

Posted by Nathan on 10/20/08 at 04:01 PM ET

The number one argument I keep coming across about the dangers of bloggers is that they seem to be full of caring everymen who have no clue what they’re saying or doing.  Maybe I’m spoiled, or maybe it’s because I’m in the minority who has just happened to stumble across the few blogs out there who don’t make up facts unless it’s an obvious attempt at comedy.  But I’m not seeing the blogs out there that make stuff up or say things just to hurt people. 

I’d like to see some traffic numbers for all of the blogs that are rife with misinformation; then I’d like to compare the numbers of people who frequent the good and trustworthy blogs out there.

It seems to me that, by and large, the MSM types who love to accuse bloggers of spreading lies are engaging in the behavior they seem to have such a problem with.  You can easily point a finger at the dangers of “unqualified” scourges out there, but since there’s no way to prove one way or another whether it’s an accurate claim, it’s easy to hide behind that pointed finger.  After all, MSM types and bloggers are held to the same code of ethics.  Just because they claim to be part of the self-regulating establishment, doesn’t mean that they face any different consequences when caught violating those ethics.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 10/20/08 at 07:44 PM ET

I know this post is buried a bit now so Paul may or may not see it, but I’d like to put the shoe on the other foot, if I may.  Parenthetical inclusions are the comparators to the current issue.

Note: Since those may not be clear, in this example Bloggers are to the MSM what I am to Bloggers.

Paul, I want a page on your site with an equivalent marquee to any and all other bloggers (MSM) currently here, which I will use to critique and generally comment on you and all the bloggers here as I see fit, even though I’m not a blogger (MSM) myself and have nowhere near the qualifications or experience of the ones you already provide access to. 

If I’m not allowed access to your site I will decry you as being someone who is exclusionary towards non-bloggers (bloggers), and who clearly doesn’t see the evolution of communication from allowing consistent bloggers to have prominent access on your site to anyone with a dial-up connection and 5 free minutes. 

Once I gain access to your site, my comments will read something like this:

“Alanah McGinley is a disgusting blogger.”

” I bet Paul Kukla cleans up at the retirement home mixers.”

“We better be good at cooking recipes, because when it comes to hockey talk we can’t do *#$%@& all.”

“Bill of Able2Yzerman is the early leader for the Mike Peca Award for the blogger who I most wanted to spit in the face of a year ago who I now kinda like.”

If after posting those types of things I am removed, warned, browbeaten, cajoled, or generally molested in any way I will drum up the support of those like me and try and start a campaign bent on representing your entire site as agressively unfriendly and with no understanding of people like me and what

So… when do I start?  I’m free this Saturday for all the site access passwords and whatnot.

What?  No? 

Posted by HockeyinHD on 10/21/08 at 07:31 AM ET

Hey HockeyinHD, I get your point and truthfully, you will have that opportunity very soon.  Maybe not this Saturday, but by next Saturday you can write all that you want.

Phase II of the new KK is coming, that is all I can say right now.

Also, on this topic, notice how I am staying away from commenting.  I am in a unique position here and expressing my views on this topic would be unfair.

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 10/21/08 at 07:39 AM ET

Again, to repeat, what was done was not professional, and the press box (along with the places to which access is granted with media credentials) is very much a professional setting. Not everyone has decried what the Oilers did, and some who initially did, upon looking further into the issue and getting another side of the story, have now changed their opinion and agree that the privilege granted was misused.
The Oilers have every right to deny ASM access, and with their consistently full press boxes and interview schedules, I doubt we will get access any time soon. But this is an issue, one that isn’t going to go away, and even if the Oilers never grant any member of ASM the privilege of special access, a proper way to associate with ASM should still come about, not just for the Oilers, but for the whole League.

Posted by SENShobo from Waterloo, ON on 10/21/08 at 07:46 AM ET

HockeyInHD—you’re missing the point. (On this post) we are not talking about whether or not the comments about Stortini, etc. in that blog post were appropriate. What we’re talking about is the unfairness, stupidity, and immaturity in taking those comments and generalizing that all bloggers post that same sort of content and never provide any value to the reader… Gregor needs to take some time to review the brightened corners of the hockey blogosphere and learn that there’s quality out there.

And while there might not be a scrolling marquee with your comments on this site, Paul certainly isn’t preventing you from commenting on any and every post, and forums have been available for years now that you can air even more dirty laundry on.

Posted by Nathan on 10/21/08 at 08:19 AM ET

I find it even a bit funnier, the lumping of all bloggers together, considering how many in MSM are now contributing to what they call a blog, with varying levels of oversight from tightly controlled to completely free reign.

Posted by SENShobo from Waterloo, ON on 10/21/08 at 08:26 AM ET

Guys, you’re going far afield here.  If bloggers want access, when a blogger does get access they shouldn’t act like an ass and post the stupendously retarded things like the Edmonton guy did.  For the blogging community to then lash out at the Oilers when the Edmonton guy gets the boot shows me ‘they’ just don’t get it.

It’s not a question of ‘generalizing all bloggers’ as Nathan tries to derail the subject with, it’s a question of the “trailblazing” types who are among the first to get access and how they screw it up, and then the ensuing controversy which that creates, and how all that stuff obviously looks like too much of a pain for any team to want to deal with.

No, not every blogger is a 15 year old lunatic sitting in his basement trying to work every curse word he knows into a 60 word post.  But by and large the blogging community is not rife with people who have spent their careers in the field of Journalism (and no, neither did I).  They don’t have a clear set of guidelines to which they should conform in order to maintain their respect in their field.  They have absolutely no oversight.  They have absolutely no accountability.  This is demonstrated by the presnt case, where apparently at this time if any one of them has his in-rink access curtailed in any way for any reason, even if totally justified, the absence of all the facts does not in even remotely prevent the blogging community to lashing out at the curtailer.

Sure, days after the event as the actual facts start to float to the surface maybe some Bloggers start to get the idea that, oh, um, mayyyyyybe the guy should have gotten kicked out after all.  But of course, by then they’ve already spent hours calling the Oilers backwards, ignorant and God knows what else.  That’s a pretty clear deliniation right there between blogging and the MSM.  While neither is 100% right the MSM almost always spends a ton more time getting their facts straight than the blogosphere tends to.  A blogger tends to see something and post emotionally or reflexively about it right in that moment.  Sometimes that’s entertaining reading, sometimes it’s just irresponisble… especially if bloggers themselves are trying to up their proverbial Q rating with NHL teams.

The problem here is that the blogging community appears to think they’ve collectively evolved to the point that they are totally self-policing and trustworthy to decide what is reasonable and fair to post about on a blogger by blogger case.

Get clearly stated standards which are acceptible to NHL teams.  Follow them.
Make yourselves personally accountable for not following them.

Beyond that, bloggers who want ‘in’ are going to have to realize that as their access changes the nature of their blogs are going to have to conform to higher standards of professionalism, accuracy, and content.  They may, oh man, even have to filter some of the things they might say otherwise to preserve their priviledge.

NHL teams will never… ever ever ever… ever ever ever ever… allow an unlicensced third party commentator to sit in their Media Boxes and say the kinds of things the Edmonton dude did.  Those standards are never going to change… bloggers have to rise to meet them.  Some have but many have not, and until that ratio becomes rather more balanced the word ‘blogger’ is going to continue to suffer under the somewhat negative connotation it currently does.  Changing it to ASM like Senshobo wants too will make about as much difference as calling Stewardesses ‘Flight Attendants’.  A ‘PC’ title doesn’t change perception, just ask ‘New’ Coke.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 10/21/08 at 11:00 AM ET

The point of ‘ASM’ is not to treat it as a label to slap on all those who would call themselves bloggers to make them sound more professional. I would see ‘ASM’ as those who are not MSM, not reporters for TSN, not writers for the National Post, but who nonetheless work to establish professionalism in their writing, their behaviour, and their actions. I would never call any piece of work containing profanities to be a part of what I would like to call ASM.

Another issue here is that, as usual, it is the most polarized views that get the most attention, and in this case the most polarized are those who may have lashed out prematurely or with undue harshness, rather than those who try to see the balanced point of view, and await further facts and witnesses to the situation.

Posted by SENShobo from Waterloo, ON on 10/21/08 at 11:22 AM ET