Heatley and Thornton on the same team, eh?

That could be excellent (passer and shooter) or really, really tepid as far as attitude goes.  I hope he doesn’t expect a less demanding coach in San Jose, though. 

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 09/12/09 at 01:28 PM ET

I think I just read somewhere that he’s asked Doug Wilson to trade him.

Posted by Garth on 09/12/09 at 01:29 PM ET

Alternate joke:

He just offered to give Patrick Marleau a lift to practice!

Posted by Garth on 09/12/09 at 01:31 PM ET

He just offered to give Patrick Marleau a lift to practice!

Posted by Garth on 09/12/09 at 02:31 PM ET

Now that was tasteless. Clever, but tasteless - although it would help San Jose with the salary cap ... 

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 09/12/09 at 01:34 PM ET

Not enough IMO for Heatley, who would even want cheechoo, but i guess beggars cant be choosers. THe sharks are going to be a scary team to play against though with Thornton and Heatley on a line

Posted by Luongo-is-my-hero on 09/12/09 at 01:38 PM ET

I agree Luongo-is-my-hero.

Posted by Paul from Motown Area on 09/12/09 at 01:39 PM ET

Heatley and Thornton on the same team, eh?

That could be excellent (passer and shooter) or really, really tepid as far as attitude goes.  I hope he doesn’t expect a less demanding coach in San Jose, though. 

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 09/12/09 at 02:28 PM ET

Excellent, B.

The 2010 Playoffs and the Sharks is where everything will pan out.  Your points on both the dangerous combination of scoring and attitude are spot on.

I look at the cost of this deal going to Ottawa in Cheechoo’s contract moving.  He is the posterboy for not living up to expectations after a contract was signed.

Posted by VooX from Behind the Bar in the Hasek Club Car on 09/12/09 at 01:42 PM ET

Not enough IMO for Heatley, who would even want cheechoo, but i guess beggars cant be choosers. THe sharks are going to be a scary team to play against though with Thornton and Heatley on a line

It goes both ways though, because who’s going to give up what Heatley is “worth” when you’ve effectively got Ottawa over the barrel.  (Or is it under the barrel?)  Also, there are so few options and only so much contract that Ottawa would be able to take back in return…

The Sharks could very well be scary to play against in the regular season, but who knows how it will pan out in the playoffs.  That’s where it’s going to be interesting.

Posted by Garth on 09/12/09 at 01:49 PM ET

Reminds me of when Thornton was traded for Stuart Plus dead weight.  In this case its Michalek plus deadweight and a mediocore 2nd rd pick which will probably be a 50-55 rd pick for Heatley and a 5th.

Posted by Luongo-is-my-hero on 09/12/09 at 01:50 PM ET

And this has to be among the more one-sided trades I remember.  Not only did San Jose improve, they shed a bothersome contract.  Why would Ottawa turn down the Oilers for this deal?  Heatley must have vetoed that one.

Posted by VooX from Behind the Bar in the Hasek Club Car on 09/12/09 at 01:52 PM ET

Well ya, I realize that.  It’s just funny to me how much Heatley’s stock has dropped.  If you mentioned this to anyone prior to the start of last season, you would see offers 10x better.  Everyone thought the Bruins got fleeced, IMO, this is worse because the sharks get to drop Cheechoo’s ugly contract as well.

Posted by Luongo-is-my-hero on 09/12/09 at 01:53 PM ET

lol, is it groundhogs day, we are 1 min apart in thinking VooX.  Or maybe its because i type too slow

Posted by Luongo-is-my-hero on 09/12/09 at 01:54 PM ET

Greeeat.  This is going to make going to the Shark tank when the Wings are in town so much more fun.  We have a history of losing there during the regular season and I think that history just got secured for some time to come.

I have to wager Sharks fans aren’t all that happy about it though, as Choooooo was a local favorite, and Michalek truly has some upside potential.

Posted by Hippy Dave from Portland by way of Detroit on 09/12/09 at 01:55 PM ET

Too bad the Canucks didn’t try to drop a Demitra, Bieksa, raymond/2nd rd pick for Heatley type deal.

Posted by Luongo-is-my-hero on 09/12/09 at 01:56 PM ET

So Ottawa got screwed.  Do you think Wilson will call tomorrow?

Posted by VooX from Behind the Bar in the Hasek Club Car on 09/12/09 at 02:03 PM ET

If this deal turns out the way San Jose thinks it can/hopes, with Thornton setting up Heatley for about 30 goals by the break , then it will also help both of their olympic chances.

Posted by Lindas1st from New England on 09/12/09 at 02:29 PM ET

You can’t really judge if Ottawa got screwed yet… Heatley’s developed a pattern of being a jackass with a bad attitude. Imagine how he’ll act if the Sharks find themselves in their usual panic in the first or second round after a dominant regular season.

Let’s wait and see if Heatley is able to mesh with his teammates, and let’s wait and see if San Jose can find some leadership. It sure isn’t coming from Thornton, Heatley, Marleau, or really any of the forwards there. Dan Boyle will have to pick up that role, IMO.

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 09/12/09 at 02:58 PM ET

I remember in ‘96 when Yzerman got crap for being the star that couldn’t deliver the cup also.  San Jose is going to be an difficult team to beat.  Todd McLelland now has experience as a head coach and Rob Blake is still on that team.  Say what you will about their first round loss, but the Ducks were not your ordinary eighth seeded team; they patched up their holes at the trade deadline with some pretty smart moves.  I think the cup winner may come out of the east this season because the teams from the west are going to beat the crap out of each other like last season.

Posted by Gumby from the city with more ruins than Rome on 09/12/09 at 03:08 PM ET

I’m going to go ahead and point to this move every time somebody feels the need to mention that Detroit is screwed because they got Todd Bertuzzi.  Heatley would have to put up Gretzky-esque numbers in order to make up for the fact that he’s a spoiled pain in the ass. 

San Jose is less scary to me now than they were before this deal.  I’m asking this because I honestly have no idea, but when’s the last time anybody can remember a pain in the ass player bitching his way out of a city and then taking that team to a championship?  The closest thing I can think is when Shaquille O’Neal left LA for the Miami, but the mitigating factors are that it was a full year after that in which he played limited time, combined with the fact that Shaq wasn’t the pain in the ass player in that whole situation, Kobe Bryant was.  Now I know that hockey is different from the other sports, but my opinions on that strengthen my argument.  It takes more heart to win the Stanley Cup than any other professional sports trophy.  Heatley would have to turn into a completely different person to show that he’s got enough of it.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 09/12/09 at 03:13 PM ET

You cannot begin to believe how happy Shark’s fans are now. Sure we will miss Cheechoo and Michalek. But as soon as we hear the call ( probably many times this season) , “...Thorton to Heatley, he shoots ...he SCORES!!!” We won’t care anymore… GO SHARKS!!!!

Posted by Hockey Rob from san Jose on 09/12/09 at 03:39 PM ET

Interesting.  I was thinking that SJ got screwed when I read the news.  The same questionable leadership is in place with some production shipped out, and Heatley is doubtful to provide new leadership. 

Sure, Heatley has higher numbers, but SJ’s problem has been in the locker room.

I suppose it just seems to me like a major shakeup of a good team that doesn’t address what many consider to be the underlying problems.  I’ll still be scared of them, either way.

Now back to rearticulating this human skeleton, to my girlfriend’s chagrin.

Posted by MarkK from Maryland on 09/12/09 at 03:41 PM ET

I think that I’m one of the few that think that Bertuzzi in Detroit may not be a bad thing.  Replies to other threads suggest that Bertuzzi scoring 20 goals in Detroit is rediculous.  I don’t see why he can’t reach that goal. Especially if he is happy.  I can’t see Heatly being a pain in the ass (at least this year) with Rob Blake in the locker room.  Who in the Senators locker room offers that intangiable.  Also, Todd McLelland is not going to be as passive this year as last considering that he’s has his first season behind him.  He also talks to Babcock.  I think the Sharks have better leadership than the Sens (sorry SensHobo), and Heatly is not going to be depended upon to provide leadership.  I think he’s going to help the Sharks.

Posted by Gumby from the city with more ruins than Rome on 09/12/09 at 03:47 PM ET

I don’t know, Gumby.  I hope you’re wrong, of course.  Blake didn’t seem to be able to do much to get the guys motivated last year.  I agree that Anaheim was no traditional eighth seed, but that’s little excuse for a franchise marred by a record for early exits.  McClellan has to be more comfortable in the coaching position than he was last year, but there’s only so much a forceful coach can do if Heatley acts up.  Babcock had to cut ties with players who wouldn’t buy into his system.  I hope that San Jose’s management gives Todd the same level of backing if it turns out that way. 

Baroque, if you’re still around reading this.  I’m interested to know your take on this piece.  If you were a Sharks fan, would you react to this the same way you reacted to the Wings bringing Todd back?

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 09/12/09 at 04:01 PM ET

So how long until Heatley requests to be traded from San Jose? One year? Two?

Posted by Nick on 09/12/09 at 04:37 PM ET

there’s only so much a forceful coach can do if Heatley acts up.

I would have to think that if you’re going to make a deal for a player like Heatley, in terms of his cap number (someone will correct me if I’m wrong, but I think Heatley will be the highest paid player on the Sharks, no?) and in terms of what you’re giving up (whether they add up to what Heatley’s “worth”, if you look at Mike Chen’s Likely Sharks Lines, the fish gave up their two top-line wingers for Heatley), they have to be prepared to work with him and give him the “role” he apparently felt he wasn’t given under Clouston.

Whether it ends up being successful is anyone’s guess, but I don’t think anyone was going into this deal blind.

Posted by Garth on 09/12/09 at 04:38 PM ET

Ottawa MUST have been desperate.  I don’t see how they could have agreed to that deal.  They got the shaft.

Posted by Paul From Cali on 09/12/09 at 04:53 PM ET

Not enough IMO for Heatley, who would even want cheechoo, but i guess beggars cant be choosers.

I agree Cheechoo is overrrated, but Michalek is highly underrated.  I think he’s going to do a whole LOT for Ottawa.

Posted by Primis on 09/12/09 at 09:05 PM ET

whether they add up to what Heatley’s “worth”, if you look at Mike Chen’s Likely Sharks Lines, the fish gave up their two top-line wingers for Heatley

Well, I was surprised when summer news leaked that McLellan would be starting Setoguchi on the third line. I was even more surprised when he stuck with it on the eve of training camp. I don’t think there’s any question that Setoguchi can play a top-six role, so the fact that Michalek and Cheechoo were originally slotted to play with Thornton may have had more to do with the front office anticipating the trade than anything else.

Posted by Mike Chen on 09/12/09 at 09:19 PM ET

I’m asking this because I honestly have no idea, but when’s the last time anybody can remember a pain in the ass player bitching his way out of a city and then taking that team to a championship?

I thought that same thing this morning. Even though it looks great on paper, I’m still not sold on him being in San Jose. If Clouston’s biggest beef with Heatley was that he didn’t hustle or move his feet…uh…well…I’m not sure why Wilson would want him, regardless of his offensive upside. Even though Cheech was always injured over the past two years and rendered offensively ineffective, the dude always played balls out

Posted by Mike Chen on 09/12/09 at 09:21 PM ET

@ J.J. -

It depends on if it is on the basis of “he killed someone when he made what, if he is lucky, is the worst decision of his life even if he lives to be 100 and is lucky beyond belief that the parents could find it in their hearts to forgive him or he would have spent time in joil” or on the basis of “he isn’t what the team needs.”

Bertuzzi I didn’t much like before the Moore thing, liked him even less afterwards, but what really put me over the edge is that I can’t see him being of use and that drives me bonkers.  I don’t want any team I root for in any sport to waste their money and effort on someone who is essentially useless.  Despite all the protestations to the contrary that honestly he is really healthy now, and can really, really do something to help the team, and that matched set of luggage he’s hauling around with him won’t have any negative effect - I don’t buy it one bit.

With Heatley - I think he made a horrible choice and he’s damn lucky he didn’t serve time in jail, and I hope he realizes how fortunate he is (although I doubt it).  I think he is a bit of an immature diva who puts his own needs and desires first to the detriment of his team, and I would not want him on my team on a long-term, expensive contract no matter how talented he is.  Subjectively, I see him as a complementary piece - a tremendously valuable complementary piece, but nonetheless someone who needs someone else to make him effective (Thornton would seem to be ideal for this).  But San Jose was third in the conference in scoring goals last year with 257, behind only Detroit (295) and Chicago (264).  (In the Eastern conference they would be tied for 5th with Atlanta.)  It’s always nice to score more goals, but they didn’t need Heatley unless he was replacing another high-scoring offensive player who was being sent out.

If I were a Sharks fan right now, I’d be thinking of one other player right now - Hossa.  When Detroit signed him, it was a splash and it was exciting, but I wondered if it was really needed - and all Detroit had to give up was money for a year, no draft picks or players or anything, he hadn’t been demonstrated to have any attitude issues anywhere else, and he wasn’t signed for another five years.  San Jose is stuck with Heatley now - if he decides that he doesn’t like being on the second powerplay unit with the Sharks, or he isn’t playing with the linemates he thinks he deserves, and he starts to get pouty again - no one is ever going to take that on, no matter who much he scores, because that will mean he asked out of three teams (the first one of which is plenty understandable - the memories must have made it very rough on him). 

Sure he is happy with San Jose NOW, but what if it doesn’t last another four or five years?

I think having Hossa on the roster and being able to cover for poor defense with excellent offense more often than not affected the Wings negatively last year, and I would worry about the same thing happening with the Sharks next year.  It might not freak me out (it isn’t as though I think Heatley is as useless as Bertuzzi by any means), but I would be quite uneasy and watching the team closely for signs of Heatley-induced cancer.

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 09/12/09 at 10:18 PM ET

Hey Mike.  I definitely agree that Cheech always played his ass off.  However, we do have Mitchell back this year and he also plays like a man possessed.  Plus, a lot of up and coming talent will be playing their hearts out this year to prove they belong with the big club… or at least, I hope so. 

So while he may have been a heart and soul player (hey, Cheechoo is one of my faves), this is a business and if some players aren’t producing (at least, producing like some think he should) then it’s time to move on.  I do wish him the best and I wish Michalek could have stayed too but it was not to be.

Personally, if we want a heart and soul player, we should could Rivet back.  Although, Boyle almost reminds me of Rivet in the playoffs the year previous. 

I really hope Heatley can get his mind right and be the player that dreamt of playing in the NHL and not think about how much ice-time he’s getting.  I hope he can be a team player.

I’m still skeptical of this trade but the old team just wasn’t getting it done and I agree drastic changes were needed.  I guess I’ll just keep hoping that Heatley delivers.

Posted by Matt Fry from Winnipeg on 09/12/09 at 11:35 PM ET

J.J. first off, sorry that it took me so long to respond (kids activities wait for no one).  Last year was Rob Blake’s first year with the sharks so I give him a bit of a pass considering that he had to learn a new system himself as well as getting acclimated to a new city and surroundings.  I expect things to be different for him this year and i’m thinking that he will be taking more of a leadership role.  Furthermore, he saw how well things worked out last year which may serve as inspiration enough.  I do agree with Baroque about the notion that Heatly has a ‘taint’ about him and his past, but him being a cancer would be a bigger concern for his teamates.  I can’t see that resonate into the locker room this year.  And for the Sharks, THIS year is paramount.  I would think that if the team fails to produce this playoffs, there will be a fire sale in San Jose starting from the top.

Posted by Gumby from the city with more ruins than Rome on 09/12/09 at 11:59 PM ET

@Gumby:  Rob Blake is 74 years old.  I don’t know what you’re expecting from him, but he’s not going to deliver it.  He hasn’t been “that guy” in at least 5 years.

Posted by Paul From Cali on 09/13/09 at 06:12 AM ET

Paul from Cali.  Rob Blake’s best years may be behind him, but that has nothing to do with leadership and a presence in the locker room.  Chris Chelios hasn’t been that effective on the ice for some time, but the Wings kept him on their roster.  In the few games that he has played last year for the Wings, when Draper and Datsyuk were out with injuries, he wore an ‘A’.  Other players can feed off of that experience.  The Wings didn’t keep him around because of his play; he doesn’t have enough gas left.  I think that they kept him around because the Wings want him to remain in their system after retirement.  I also believe that he would still be on the Wings roster if the CBA would allow the Wings to keep some of the other players that they are force to either make room on their roster, trade or waive.  Rob Blake offers that same kind of player.  I don’t think the Sharks got him to be ‘that guy’.  That’s what they’re hoping for from Dan Boyle.

Posted by Gumby from the city with more ruins than Rome on 09/13/09 at 07:36 AM ET

Thanks for your answers, everybody.  I do think Rob Blake will help keeping him in line, but I don’t think it will be enough.  At this point, I’m happier having Bertuzzi on the team than I would be if we had Heatley.  It’s definitely a shakeup move and it may be just the piece San Jose needs.  I just want the damn season to start already.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 09/13/09 at 09:29 AM ET