JJ, you are so unbelievably wrong. Again, the only people who side with the Islanders and the NHL are Islanders fans, neanderthals, and people who hate the Penguins.

The Cooke argument is a particularly lame and incorrect one. Cooke has had a lot of questionable hits, but never tried to sucker punch anyone, taunt an injured player, or pick fights with goaltenders. What the Islanders did on Friday was barbaric. It has no place in the game. Cooke is a choir boy compared to what the Islanders did on Friday. There should’ve been 20+ game suspensions to Gillies and Martin. The NHL is leaving itself open to an incident where one day, a player may be killed.

Someone needed to speak up and let the NHL know it’s not protecting the players. And I guess Mario has to comment on every questionable incident in the NHL and not just the Penguins? That makes no sense. Mario doesn’t work for the NHL. His primary concern is the franchise he owns. What good does it do for him to comment on a play in, say, a Coyotes-Kings game? People need to use their heads before typing.

Posted by cs6687 on 02/13/11 at 05:05 PM ET

great blog

Posted by Oilers Rock from Edmonton, Alberta on 02/13/11 at 05:08 PM ET

Well said, Jon! I can’t imagine any other team owner threatening to divest his interests in the league with so much drama. Mario needs to put on his big boy pants and get over a blowout from one of the worst teams in the last 10 years.

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 02/13/11 at 05:13 PM ET

sure matt cooke doesnt sucker punch… but he deliberately tries to injure/hurt opponents… ask marc savard or vinny lecavallier or anyother player who had been a victim of his dirty play. bertuzzi ended one career, its countless how many matt cooke ended

Posted by Oilers Rock from Edmonton, Alberta on 02/13/11 at 05:14 PM ET

I must have missed the part where Matt Cooke played in the game on Friday.  But hey, I guess it’s OK for the Lightning to have Steve Downie.

Mario needs to put on his big boy pants and get over a blowout from one of the worst teams in the last 10 years.

The result of the game had nothing to do with it. 

the NHL’s most guilty party in terms of headhunting

It amazes me that Mike Richards still gets a pass on this just because he said he would never do it again.  But it’s OK because David Booth plays in Florida.

Posted by pens fan in baltimore on 02/13/11 at 05:19 PM ET

cs6687:

The Cooke argument is a particularly lame and incorrect one. Cooke has had a lot of questionable hits, but never tried to sucker punch anyone, taunt an injured player, or pick fights with goaltenders.

Not much question behind any of the hits for which Cooke has been disciplined (and none either for many for which he has not but should have been). Can’t say I’ve seen him sucker anyone, true, but can’t remember the last time he actually punched anyone either. And is not running a goaltender an indirect way of picking a fight? Cause I’ve seen Cooke do that on several occasions.

But, you’re right. This isn’t about him.

Oh, wait…

Cooke is a choir boy compared to what the Islanders did on Friday. There should’ve been 20+ game suspensions to Gillies and Martin. The NHL is leaving itself open to an incident where one day, a player may be killed.

Exactly! And, an inch or two here or there and Fedor Tyutin may have become that first player killed just, what, last week?

And I guess Mario has to comment on every questionable incident in the NHL and not just the Penguins?

While these incidents were deplorable, they’re nothing compared to many others we’ve seen before. This wasn’t the time to make the example that Mario talks about. That needs to happen but there have been far, far better targets, as there will be soon again, I’m sure, unfortunately.

People need to use their heads before typing

Indeed. Make sure Mario and his PR team get that memo.

JJ

Posted by Jon Jordan from Tampa, FL on 02/13/11 at 05:19 PM ET

Posted by Oilers Rock from Edmonton, Alberta on 02/13/11 at 04:14 PM ET

I am in now way absolving Cooke.  I have called him dirty numerous times.  What are your thoughts on Mark Messier?  Or is that OK because he was a warrior and scored some points?

Posted by pens fan in baltimore on 02/13/11 at 05:21 PM ET

pens fan in baltimore:

I must have missed the part where Matt Cooke played in the game on Friday.

Exactly. Cooke was suspended for the latest in his long run of ignoring the integrity of the game and the safety of its players (you know, Mario’s main point).

But hey, I guess it’s OK for the Lightning to have Steve Downie.

You haven’t seen Downie or the Lightning play in two-plus years, have you?

It amazes me that Mike Richards still gets a pass on this just because he said he would never do it again.  But it’s OK because David Booth plays in Florida.

Not from me. That was abhorrent. No one’s saying the league doesn’t need to shape up in terms of secondary discipline. Point is, there’s been far worse that should have sparked the call for as much.

JJ

Posted by Jon Jordan from Tampa, FL on 02/13/11 at 05:24 PM ET

Exactly! And, an inch or two here or there and Fedor Tyutin may have become that first player killed just, what, last week?

Your stupidity blinds you. You cannot play the coulda, woulda, shoulda game. How does someone who knows nothing about the game have a blog?

You haven’t seen Downie or the Lightning play in two-plus years, have you?

Oh, I didn’t know there was a statute of limitations for players. Hypocrisy, much?

Posted by cs6687 on 02/13/11 at 05:31 PM ET

I think the suspensions should have been longer, and the fine to the Islanders probably should have been heavier, but where the league really dropped the ball was in not suspending Cooke for that hit on Comeau.  The way Cooke plays, and the way the league fails to punish him (or at fails to punish him enough to get him to stop doing it), set these events in motion.  Maybe it wouldn’t have been the Islanders but sooner or later some team was going to have a similar reaction to some of Cooke’s shenanigans.  In this case, the Pens were probably lucky that both Crosby and Malkin were already injured because if they had been in the game I’m sure they would have been targeted.

Posted by RoneFace on 02/13/11 at 05:35 PM ET

These Pens fans are so myopic it’s silly.  Matt Cooke may have ended the career of Marc Savard with his dirty, vicious hit to Savard’s head.  At the very least he’s ended his season and certainly jeopardized Savard’s future in the NHL.

And that’s just one out of a pretty long list of dirty, vicious Cooke hits.

Were they doing anything but defending him, all along the line?  Nope.  Not once.

So, now that their team was mostly on the receiving end of a series of dirty hits and over the line plays?  Why, that kind of tomfoolery is an outrage!  Fie, Fie!

It’s a hilariously hypocritical position.  Do better, Pens fans.  You are embarrassing yourselves.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 02/13/11 at 05:36 PM ET

Remember when Downie tried to break Crosby’s leg two years ago? Oh, that’s right. That wasn’t within the two years that Downie has been disciplined.

Point is, there’s been far worse that should have sparked the call for as much.

And if what was for worse was properly handled by the league, incidents like Friday night don’t happen.

Posted by cs6687 on 02/13/11 at 05:37 PM ET

It’s a hilariously hypocritical position.  Do better, Pens fans.  You are embarrassing yourselves.

Matt Cooke had nothing to do with what happened on Friday. Do you not understand that?

Posted by cs6687 on 02/13/11 at 05:38 PM ET

While these incidents were deplorable, they’re nothing compared to many others we’ve seen before. This wasn’t the time to make the example that Mario talks about. That needs to happen but there have been far, far better targets, as there will be soon again, I’m sure, unfortunately.

I’m going to disagree with this profusely. There is a distinction between dirty or marginal play and barbarism that you are, for some reason, not seeing. It’s the difference between Ryan Hollweg and Chris Simon.

You haven’t seen Downie or the Lightning play in two-plus years, have you?

You’re only seeing what you want to see, then. In the last two years, I’ve seen Steve Downie cold-cock Ovechkin after a hit and try to wrench Crosby’s knee backwards.

Posted by StevieSteve on 02/13/11 at 05:41 PM ET

StevieSteve, Downie is a choir boy. He has done nothing wrong in the last two years. Everything Cooke does is wrong.

Posted by cs6687 on 02/13/11 at 05:43 PM ET

Posted by RoneFace on 02/13/11 at 04:35 PM

Are you talking about Talbot’s shoulder to shoulder hit on Comeau? 

At the very least he’s ended his season and certainly jeopardized Savard’s future in the NHL.

Cooke ended Savard’s season this year?  Must have missed that.  What about the multiple other concussions that Savard received before the Cooke hit?  Does the NHL not have blood on its hand for Savard, because they had the Richards/Booth hit to go off of but did nothing to make the hit illegal?

Posted by pens fan in baltimore on 02/13/11 at 05:44 PM ET

Cooke has had a lot of questionable hits, but never tried to sucker punch anyone, taunt an injured player, or pick fights with goaltenders.

No, he’s just destroyed careers and viciously hit players face first into the boards.  That’s nowhere near as bad as getting int a fight with someone.

You cannot play the coulda, woulda, shoulda game.

But you can play the might, maybe could game?

Oh, I didn’t know there was a statute of limitations for players.

Well if there is it’s certainly more than a WEEK.

So please, where was Mario, getting up on his soapbox when it was HIS player attempting to end careers?  Where was he attempting to protect the integrity of the game when his employee was doing unacceptable actions?

Posted by Garth on 02/13/11 at 05:48 PM ET

Talbot should’ve been penalized for a clean hit on Comeau? Wow. Speechless. It was a clean hit that ended with an unfortunate injury. Just because someone is hit doesn’t always mean it was done illegally.

Posted by cs6687 on 02/13/11 at 05:48 PM ET

Everything Cooke has done in this calendar year is wrong. He could have been suspended 5 times since January 1. His off-ice issues are spilling over onto the ice. I have no problem admitting any of that.

There’s just a wide chasm between habitual dangerous line-crossing in the context of playing the game and the outright barbarism on display by Gillies and Martin.

Posted by StevieSteve on 02/13/11 at 05:49 PM ET

There’s just a wide chasm between habitual dangerous line-crossing in the context of playing the game and the outright barbarism on display by Gillies and Martin.

Bingo. And the people who bring up Cooke don’t understand that, and that includes Jon Jon here.

Posted by cs6687 on 02/13/11 at 05:50 PM ET

cs6687:

You cannot play the coulda, woulda, shoulda game

Okay. So, who died in the Isles game? Coulda, woulda, shoulda.

RoneFace:

think the suspensions should have been longer, and the fine to the Islanders probably should have been heavier, but where the league really dropped the ball was in not suspending Cooke for that hit on Comeau.  The way Cooke plays, and the way the league fails to punish him (or at fails to punish him enough to get him to stop doing it), set these events in motion.  Maybe it wouldn’t have been the Islanders but sooner or later some team was going to have a similar reaction to some of Cooke’s shenanigans.  In this case, the Pens were probably lucky that both Crosby and Malkin were already injured because if they had been in the game I’m sure they would have been targeted.

GREAT point!

cs6687 (again):

And if what was for worse was properly handled by the league, incidents like Friday night don’t happen

This, I agree with.

StevieSteve:

I’m going to disagree with this profusely. There is a distinction between dirty or marginal play and barbarism that you are, for some reason, not seeing. It’s the difference between Ryan Hollweg and Chris Simon.

I thought Chris Simon should have been banned for life, for whatever that;s worth.

You’re only seeing what you want to see, then. In the last two years, I’ve seen Steve Downie cold-cock Ovechkin after a hit and try to wrench Crosby’s knee backwards.

And, for comparison’s sake - since my point was that you can’t compare Cooke and Downie at all - what all have we seen Cooke do in that same time frame? I don’t have the time to put together that long a list, myself.

JJ

Posted by Jon Jordan from Tampa, FL on 02/13/11 at 05:51 PM ET

Mentioning Matt Cooke is a straw man argument.  He was not the reason for the Islanders retaliation.  They were embarrassed with their play, the clean and legitimate knockout of their goalie and “Franchise Player”, and a legal hit to Blake Comeau.  If players want to square up and fight for their fallen teammates that is fine.  Running a player, hitting him in the head, taunting him while he’s injured, and sucker punches are not. 

I am a Penguins fan.  I hate what Matt Cooke has done, but using him in this case doesn’t make sense.  Because he is a dirty player does not make what the Islanders did ok and fans should be allowed to gripe.  They are separate cases and should be handled as such.  If you cite Matt Cooke in your defense of the Islanders actions or more likely, your continued dislike and assault of the Penguins you need to reevaluate the circumstances.

Posted by Russian Rocket on 02/13/11 at 05:51 PM ET

Most of the league’s commentators are saying the spark for this was Cooke running DiPeitro.

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 02/13/11 at 05:53 PM ET

Matt Cooke had nothing to do with what happened on Friday.

YES.  THAT IS THE POINT.  Where was The Magnificent One speaking out when Cooke was pulling his shenanigans?

Nowhere?

Yeah, that’s what I thought.  I guess it’s acceptable to repeatedly try to end careers.

Posted by Garth on 02/13/11 at 05:55 PM ET

if the league wants to be this way, that is fine with the penguins.  Its not like they have anyone who they would want to protect at this point anyways.  If this had been the penguins doing this crap to the capitals and all it cost them was 3 AHL guys getting suspended for a few games, then shit, I would take that any day of the week.

Posted by gretzky_to_lemieux on 02/13/11 at 05:55 PM ET

Russian Rocket:

If you cite Matt Cooke in your defense of the Islanders actions or more likely, your continued dislike and assault of the Penguins you need to reevaluate the circumstances.

I admire and respect the Penguins, for the most part. In fact, I’d prefer to watch them play than any other NHL team, given the chance, the last few seasons.

Never did I say anything that Cooke has done makes what Martin and Gillies did anywhere near okay, nor did I use Cooke to defend any Islander actions. I used Cooke to make the point that Mario needs to look internally before he starts talking about the league making a statement to defend the integrity of the game and the safety of its players.

JJ

Posted by Jon Jordan from Tampa, FL on 02/13/11 at 05:56 PM ET

Most of the league’s commentators are saying the spark for this was Cooke running DiPeitro.

Then most of the league’s commentators are wrong. In the February 2 game, Dipietro left his crease to hit Cooke, which prompted Johnson to one-punch Dipietro. Most of the league’s commentators are speaking out of their ass. The Islanders could’ve manned up and asked Talbot to fight if they had a problem with his clean hit on Comeau, but they tried to sucker punch him. A response that barbaric, by any team, should be condemned, not justified.

Posted by cs6687 on 02/13/11 at 05:56 PM ET

YES.  THAT IS THE POINT.  Where was The Magnificent One speaking out when Cooke was pulling his shenanigans?

There is a difference between overstepping the lines during the game and barbaric retribution. Do people not understand that?

Posted by cs6687 on 02/13/11 at 05:57 PM ET

Never did I say anything that Cooke has done makes what Martin and Gillies did anywhere near okay, nor did I use Cooke to defend any Islander actions. I used Cooke to make the point that Mario needs to look internally before he starts talking about the league making a statement to defend the integrity of the game and the safety of its players.

Standing ovation. Exactly my thoughts.

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 02/13/11 at 05:59 PM ET

And, for comparison’s sake - since my point was that you can’t compare Cooke and Downie at all - what all have we seen Cooke do in that same time frame? I don’t have the time to put together that long a list, myself.

They’re the same type of player. Cooke’s offenses are more frequent, Downie’s tend to be worse, unless you can find video of Matt Cooke breaking a linesman’s foot on purpose because he didn’t like a call.

Posted by StevieSteve on 02/13/11 at 06:00 PM ET

Most of the league’s commentators are saying the spark for this was Cooke running DiPeitro.

Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 02/13/11 at 04:53 PM ET

Did you watch that incident? Its clear DP stepped into Cooke. Factchecking is your friend.

Posted by pensfan29 on 02/13/11 at 06:01 PM ET

Never did I say anything that Cooke has done makes what Martin and Gillies did anywhere near okay, nor did I use Cooke to defend any Islander actions. I used Cooke to make the point that Mario needs to look internally before he starts talking about the league making a statement to defend the integrity of the game and the safety of its players.

It’s a false parallel. If Lemieux had released a statement flying off the handle about Ovechkin kneeing Gonchar, you’d have a point. He didn’t.

Posted by StevieSteve on 02/13/11 at 06:02 PM ET

I think the key to this is that Mario’s message is right at its core.  We’re spending a lot of time missing that by shooting the messenger. 

I agree, Mario is a hypocrite because his team has a dirty player on it that does bad things, and that player isn’t punished enough for those actions.  I also didn’t like Mario’s overly dramatic threat to leave the league if it’s not fixed.  That is very melodramatic, and is more incendiary than constructive.

However, Mario is still right that Friday’s game was embarassing.  We’ve seen fight nights in the past with tons of penalty minutes that didn’t involve outright cheap-shots, two-on-one fights, or elbows to the head followed by the aggressor taunting the injured while the trainer’s out there helping the guy.

There is a major culture issue that’s widespread throughout the league.  Can anybody name me one NHL franchise that doesn’t have one or two players who have been suspended or fined for a dirty hit?  We all are quick to point out the guys on other teams who have hurt our guys but are plenty willing to forgive our guys for their transgressions as long as it happened last year, or they got their 2-3 game suspension.

In that sense, I agree with the core of Mario’s statement, but I think he’s still blinded to that issue of only bringing it up when his guys are the victims.  We need to see more players banding together against the guys who hurt other players, even when they’re teammates.  We need to see owners and GMs agree that we’d rather see our guy suspended for injuring someone than see someone else get away with injuring our guy.

Ultimately, these hockey players are our heroes but still real people with lives outside the rink.  We should have enough respect for all of them to not want to see them get hurt on dirty and malicious plays.  I want to see all of the world’s best hockey players playing a fast physical game that we all love to see.  That involves body hits, physical play, and respect for opponents that’s missing from these dirty, late, or head hunting hits.

So yeah, I think we should make sure Mario is accountable for this letter by demanding he lead by example and take care of his franchise, while commending him for leading a charge to clean up the league as a whole.  Even if he’s a hypocrite and won’t lead by example, let’s not forget that what he’s saying is important.

Posted by HitokiriEric from Ann Arbor, MI on 02/13/11 at 06:08 PM ET

Its not like the Pens are angels here. Did every freakin player on the ice actually need to join in on a fight? Maybe if the Pens had gotten a little leadership from somebody, they could have gotten a power play or two out of it and could have gotten back in the game and difused the whole situation. They didn’t do that. So I have no sympathy for Mario. None.

And cs6687 is right. Dipietro was the one that wanted to start something stupid. A man as fragile as Dipietro should be trying everything he can to stay off the disabled list, not trying to start someting foolish at the end of a game. He ended up getting what he deserved.

Posted by UMFan from Denver, Colorado on 02/13/11 at 06:21 PM ET

I’m not the only one who believes Lemiux has a point: “Good for (Lemieux),” veteran Bruins player Mark Recchi told Boston reporter Joe Haggerty.” I’m glad he said it because the (NHL sanctions) weren’t strong enough. Not even close.”

Posted by cs6687 on 02/13/11 at 06:34 PM ET

StevieSteve:

It’s a false parallel.

No, it isn’t. Not when the point of Lemieux’s message was about protecting the integrity of the game and the safety of its players and one of his very own is the absolute worst about just that in all the league!

Sorry, dude.

HitokiriEric, you’re too long to quote but dead on. Well done.

UMFan/cs6687:

Dipietro was the one that wanted to start something stupid

This is an absolute truth as well. Still, there was far more between the Isles and Pens that led to Friday night. (There was also frustration on the part of the Islanders stemming from run-ins with other teams as well.)

But there’s no doubting DP acted a fool and got his just due in turn.

JJ

Posted by Jon Jordan from Tampa, FL on 02/13/11 at 06:51 PM ET

JJ,

My comment wasn’t so much directed at you as it was this…

It’s a hilariously hypocritical position.  Do better, Pens fans.  You are embarrassing yourselves.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 02/13/11 at 04:36 PM ET

I should have noted as such.  I don’t blame you for criticizing Lemieux.  That is your opinion.  I do wish he had chose his words better, but I also like that he is an owner who is going to bat for his team. 

Although, we both know teammates and people within the organization subscribe to the hockey code of not badmouthing each other and showing some level of support.  Even if it may be under false pretenses.  Look at GM Chiarelli (SP?) in Boston and his statements about the recent hit one of his players was punished for, which was, ironically, a blindside hit to the head.  It’s the way the league works.  You cover it enough to know this.  I was hoping to see some sort of note of that included in here…. (Ference recently spoke out about the issue above and was chastised for it).

Posted by Russian Rocket on 02/13/11 at 07:12 PM ET

Pens fans, and specifically cs6687, are being intentionally myopic here.

If the point is that dirty play needs to be stamped out then they (and he) needed to have been far, far, FAR more critical of a player on their very own team who epitomizes that kind of dirty, reckless and dangerous style of play.

Not only haven’t they been, they’ve gone out of their way to defend that guys actions and minimize the effect of his vicious style.

That’s fine, if done in a vacuum.  To defend Cooke and to THEN go on to criticize and lambaste some other team being dirty with them is just plain old fashioned Homerville, USA hypocrisy.

Was what the Islanders did dirty, dangerous and bad for the game?  Of course it was.  Is what Matt Cooke does to players on a regular basis dirty, dangerous, and bad for the game?  Of course it is.  Until Pens fans are able to step up and make both statements they’re just being homers who don’t like to experience what the players on their own team dishes out.

Now, of course the NHL has bungled the punishments for both teams and set the stage for what happened to happen.  That’s what the NHL does.  They bungled things.  They will continue to bungle punishments, just like they’ll continue to bungle CBA’s, franchise relocations, franchise purchases, TV decisions, PR opportunities, marketing strategies, and anything else under the sun.

The NHL’s incompetence in this manner is in no way an excuse for Pens fans to be hypocritically inconsistent with their levels of acceptance of dirty play and dirty players depending on what jersey they happen to be wearing.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 02/13/11 at 07:18 PM ET

No, it isn’t. Not when the point of Lemieux’s message was about protecting the integrity of the game and the safety of its players and one of his very own is the absolute worst about just that in all the league!

Sorry, dude.

If you can’t see the difference between illegal hockey hits from Cooke, Kaleta, Tootoo (etc.) and thuggery from guys like Josh Gratton, Chris Simon, Trevor Gillies (etc.) it’s because you don’t want to see it. Matt Cooke’s kneeing isn’t so shocking to the senses of human beings that it makes CNN, which the Islanders’ criminality now has.

General managers see the distinction, which is why the first group all collect NHL paychecks and two from the second group are over in Russia mugging people, with Gillies soon to join them.

If Mario is objecting to an apple, you can’t criticize him for not talking about an orange.

Posted by StevieSteve on 02/13/11 at 07:19 PM ET

Mario should be quiet; his player plays reckleslsly every game,and he cries about being wronged in one game,bollocks

Posted by edillac from isolation on 02/13/11 at 07:34 PM ET

Mario should be quiet; his player plays reckleslsly every game,and he cries about being wronged in one game,bollocks

Cooke crosses the line, no doubt. He does it within the paramaters of the game. What the Islanders did on Friday was borderline assault within intention to severly injure Talbot and Tangradi. Do you not understand the difference, or will you continue to let your dislike of the Penguins cloud proper and logical assessment of everything?

Posted by cs6687 on 02/13/11 at 07:38 PM ET

I dont dislike the Penguins,thought they were awesome in Madagascar

Posted by edillac from isolation on 02/13/11 at 07:40 PM ET

Should we expect a statement from Mario concerning the game against the Rangers today?

“Hockey is a fast game. When it is played fairly, it is wonderful to behold. But the actions of some New York Rangers today were inexcusable. There is no place in this sport for three powerplay goals in one game.

Artem Anisimov and Ryan Callaghan crossed the line by scoring while our team was a man down. It’s embarrassing to the league every time we get a penalty. It becomes even worse when we get scored on.

For the good of our great game I ask the NHL to crack down on penalty calls against us.”

Posted by Red Winger from Sault Ste Marie on 02/13/11 at 07:45 PM ET

Red Winger also suffers from retarditis.

Posted by cs6687 on 02/13/11 at 07:58 PM ET

He does it within the paramaters of the game.

Oh.

Posted by Unicorn Force from DC (but like everyone here, I'm not a local) on 02/13/11 at 08:00 PM ET

Point is, Cooke isn’t trying to sucker punch or kill someone. But thanks for another positive contribution.

Posted by cs6687 on 02/13/11 at 08:02 PM ET

But thanks for another positive contribution.

You are more than welcome.

Posted by Unicorn Force from DC (but like everyone here, I'm not a local) on 02/13/11 at 08:03 PM ET

not sure how anyone can defend matt cooke.

jesus, pens fans are disgusting.  can’t even consider them human.

Unless you’re illiterate, no one is defending Cooke. Just saying there’s a difference between cheapshots and full-blown barbarianism that the Islanders employed on Friday. Neither has a place in the game, but there’s a very big difference between the two.

Posted by cs6687 on 02/13/11 at 08:07 PM ET

Again, and us Wings fans get called homerific whiners.  Guess because Mario says it it must be gospel, eh Pens fans?

Posted by John W. from a bubble wrap cocoon on 02/13/11 at 08:08 PM ET

Again, and us Wings fans get called homerific whiners.  Guess because Mario says it it must be gospel, eh Pens fans?

I’d say if someone as respected as Mark Recchi agrees with Mario, that Mario is pretty much spot on. The only people I see disagreeing with him are people who dislike the Penguins. If those people had any sense, they’d admit he’s right.

Posted by cs6687 on 02/13/11 at 08:11 PM ET

I’d say if someone as respected as Mark Recchi agrees with Mario, that Mario is pretty much spot on. The only people I see disagreeing with him are people who dislike the Penguins. If those people had any sense, they’d admit he’s right.

Recchi played with Lemieux. Good game son you tried.

Posted by BetterThanYou on 02/13/11 at 08:33 PM ET

Okay to be honest I could care less about the pens or the islanders. I am a Lightning fan and ill make the very clear before I post anything.

Now in regards to the pens I truly worry every single time we play them not because of there talent but because im worried that Cooke has the mentality to actually injure any number of our talented players such as Marty Stammer or Vinny (again). I dont think the Pens have a dirty team but just 1 dirty player. Crosby is a baby and flops around like a fish out of water from time to time as well(that being said I think he is great for the game and has unbelievable talent)

but I have never thought that team as a whole is looking for career ending hits minus Cooke.  The islanders are never really a dirty team in my opinion from the games ive seen this game just seemed like a chance to try to send a message to a good team that we will stand up for our players even if they are at fault. but the Pens are just as much at fault with a guy jumping of the bench and there goalie instigating the fight he got into.

Now the whole reason I wanted to respond on here was to say to anyone who thinks Downie is a dirty player you are flat out wrong. He does play the line from time to time but hasnt crossed it really since he came to Tampa. Pens fans will disagree with me but when he landed on Crosbys leg he and Crosby were both rushing to get to the puck first and can clearly see he just fell on Crosbys leg not intentional just happened. and if you watch the replay with this mind set instead of thinking ITS DOWNIE HE MUST BE TRYING TO HURT SOMEONE!!!! you would see the same thing I see.

Now for the angry thing I want to say anyone who says Downie and Cooke are the same type of player is a complete and total moron im so sick of people who dont watch the lightning commenting on Downie. he has done nothign dirty in forever but yet because of what he did in his first 2 years people will never be willing to see he has changed and works hard.

He has every ref and every hockey news caster not in Tampa thinking he is a dirty player which he did earn but he changed and has done everything to change his image but until people are willing to spend more then 2 seconds watching him and actually try to see his development instead of watching a small clip and making a judgment of him from that he will sadly be doomed to this unreasonable and unfair mindset and I dont see it ever changing.

In short screw you if you think Downie is anything like Cooke. The pens are okay minus Cooke and the Islanders just snapped. sorry its so long.

Posted by TBL FAN on 02/13/11 at 09:15 PM ET

Posted by TBL FAN on 02/13/11 at 08:15 PM ET

So easy to knock down. Since entering Tampa’s organization Downie has sucker punched Alex Ovechkin, wrenched Crosby’s knee and broken a linesman’s foot over a call he didn’t like. Even saying he’s been better this year is BS, as he’s missed half of it injured and not a month ago lost his mind over nothing and had to be restrained by four officials. He and Cooke are the two most similar players in the NHL.

If homerism’s such a blinding factor, then let’s bring it closer to home: Steve Downie got 20 games for an incident that was less bad (he didn’t punch an unconscious McCammond) than Gillies’ 9 game incident.

Here’s Gagne’s quote from then “If Steve’s the first guy to have to take all those games for it, hopefully the league’s going to be consistent if something like that happens in the future. I hope they will be severe like they are with Steve. I hope Steve’s not going to be the only guy.”

How do you think Downie feels about league discipline, in light of this?

Posted by StevieSteve on 02/14/11 at 05:01 AM ET

JJ, you are so unbelievably wrong. Again, the only people who side with the Islanders and the NHL are Islanders fans, neanderthals, and people who hate the Penguins.

Posted by cs6687 on 02/13/11 at 04:05 PM ET

The only people who could possibly interpret JJ’s post as “siding with the Islanders” are Pens fans, neanderthals, or illiterate. Or all three. How’s that?

Back above board… the point is that you’re being hypersensitive to the argument JJ is making. When did he ever say he was on the side of the Isles? His argument isn’t about choosing sides between the Isles and Pens—his argument is about the value of the suspensions and fines, and his view that Lemieux’s statement is over the top and sits on top of a house of cards. Which is very much a true statement, not an opinion. Might be easier for you to see that if you weren’t a Pens fan.

I will disagree with JJ in one respect. I don’t think the suspensions were enough, and four two reasons:

- First, both Gillies and Martin should be suspended longer than Godard. I know that Godard broke an explicit rule with a rigid, letter-of-the-law penalty, and so his 10 games cannot be diminished. My point is that despite Godard breaking that rule, I still find what he did far less embarrassing for the sport, and far less vile than what Gillies and Martin did. So I was hoping to see 12 games for each player. I would’ve felt that more fair.

- Second, if you ignore the result of the play, how is Martin’s sucker punch attempt not in the same discussion as the Bertuzzi incident? The Bertuzzi incident was worse, no doubt, and not just because of the result. But even so, 4 games doesn’t really get Martin in the same neighborhood as Bertuzzi’s penalty. Granted, Bertuzzi theoretically absorbed a lot of his penalty unfairly due to the lockout, but if we take the league at face value on that (which I know is impossible to do, but for the sake of argument), I don’t see how Martin doesn’t deserve at least 8 games.

And like I said above, I think 12 is the right choice if Godard has to sit 10.

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 02/14/11 at 09:42 AM ET

I will disagree with JJ in one respect. I don’t think the suspensions were enough, and four (for) two reasons:

Christ, I wish this site had an edit button.

Posted by Nathan from the scoresheet! on 02/14/11 at 09:44 AM ET

Russian Rocket:

I don’t blame you for criticizing Lemieux.  That is your opinion.  I do wish he had chose his words better, but I also like that he is an owner who is going to bat for his team.

It’s all good. It’s a simple and friendly debate (for the most part). What you said here makes all the difference in the world. In fact, had Lemieux left out the last part of his statement, I probably would have left the whole thing alone. Then, it would have simply been him expressing displeasure about the length of suspensions and amount of fines to the Islanders and their guilty players. Instead, it comes across as hypocritical whining, sadly.

StevieSteve:

If Mario is objecting to an apple, you can’t criticize him for not talking about an orange.

Again, his fault for using the exact words, “We, as a league, must do a better job of protecting the integrity of the game and the safety of our players,” which encompasses any and all actions that endanger league integrity and player safety. And that’s where he (or his PR staff) should have stopped things, realizing that a look inside before passing judgment like this was necessary. Include the Simons, the Grattons and the Bertuzzis, as well as the Martins and the Gillies(es) here, but also include Cooke and friends.

Red Winger:

(Fake Mario): “For the good of our great game I ask the NHL to crack down on penalty calls against us.”

I get that you’re joking (and it was funny!) but one has to wonder if this might come somewhere down the road, given the childish nature of the actual statement.

cs6687:

Point is, Cooke isn’t trying to sucker punch or kill someone.

He may not be trying but headshots and runs from behind could certainly lead to as much.

StevieSteve:

Since entering Tampa’s organization Downie has sucker punched Alex Ovechkin, wrenched Crosby’s knee and broken a linesman’s foot over a call he didn’t like. Even saying he’s been better this year is BS, as he’s missed half of it injured and not a month ago lost his mind over nothing and had to be restrained by four officials. He and Cooke are the two most similar players in the NHL.

Suckered Ovechkin? He was ready to go with him last year, squared up, man-to-man (as was OV) until Matt Bradley came off the bench and interrupted things.

The Crosby play is what you’re mad about and I’ll give you that one. Marginally dirty, definitely irresponsible. Should never have happened.

As for the AHL suspension involving the linesman (who was NOT hurt, by the way), that incident was up for much debate, as Downie swears he was trying to hack at the opposing center. Shouldn’t have been attempting to do that either but that happens all the time. Knowing Steve just a little, I have an awfully difficult time believing he intentionally whacked at the official and the argument fizzles as the video’s murky, at best. The suspension handed down at the time was given largely on reputation and the lack of any benefit of the doubt for Downie, who hadn’t come close to earning as much. That was, what? Nearly two years ago?

And we’re talking far more than this year. Downie had a fine season a year ago.

JJ

Posted by Jon Jordan from Tampa, FL on 02/14/11 at 10:16 AM ET

Penguins coach Dan Bylsma defended Cooke’s latest infraction after the game, saying Tyutin could have avoided it. “The player looks him right in the eye and knows he’s coming and makes sure he keeps his numbers turned towards him,”

This is the same advice he should have given Talbot. When Martin challenges him to a fight, it is a bad idea to turn your back, or maybe Talbot should learn the proper sucker punch etiquette from Staal.

Posted by hockey1919 from mid-atlantic on 02/14/11 at 10:22 AM ET

Pens fans are so very sensitive. Pretty much every single Cooke-related article on this site is filled with Pens fans defending him. They parse every second of video to “prove” that Cooke’s latest dirty play wasn’t dirty, or that the victim should’ve had his head on a swivel, or that Cooke is just so darn passionate and the game so fast that, ya know, what are ya gonna do? Of course, there are hundreds of other guys who skate around in the NHL who are passionate and play in the same fast game that don’t get suspended multiple times per year but I guess Cooke is just REALLY passionate.

Now, when ranting about the barbarism that was the Islanders/Pens game, they have to give an inch on Cooke to highlight how truly out of bounds the Islanders were and what huge victims the Pens are (again, surprise!).

So, now, for the first time ever anywhere, you have a Pens fan acknowledges that Cooke is a dirty player. Sort of:

“Cooke crosses the line, no doubt. He does it within the paramaters of the game.” - cs6687

So, he’s GOOD DIRTY, whereas other players are BAD DIRTY.

Posted by awould on 02/14/11 at 12:36 PM ET

So, he’s GOOD DIRTY, whereas other players are BAD DIRTY.

Posted by awould on 02/14/11 at 11:36 AM ET

Here’s how I view the Cooke/Isles thing. People can disagree but this is my opinion.

Yes, Cooke is “dirty”. If you wanna pull apart every play he makes, go ahead. The hit on Tyutin was a “hockey play” during the natural flow of the game. Had he only been 10 feet behind instead of 20, theres no suspension. He made a play to hit the man with the puck. Borderline legal or not, no one can say its not a “hockey play” that they see variations of multiple times a game.

What the Isles did was not even in the realm of a “hockey play.” Punching someone in the side/back of the head while the play is down the ice, then attempting to fight said player, is thuggery, not a “hockey play.”

Doing a Macho Man Randy Savage impersonation, again to the side/back of someone’s head, is not a “hockey play.” That was a deliberate action and attempt to injure a player. Then mocking and jawing at the player writhing in pain on the ice, with a trainer, is inexcusable.

I don’t think anyone here can say they see the Isles’ actions several times during games. Why? Simple, they are thug moves, not “hockey plays.”

We see OV, Richards, Cooke, Avery, Sid, et al hit people in what some would consider penalties or suspendable offences. And often times they are. But they are HOCKEY PLAYS. Hockey is the fastest sport around, sometimes players do stupid things. Sometimes they cannot react fast enough. But to lump Cooke’s actions in with the actions from the Islanders is laughable.

If you still cannot see the difference, then i’m not sure what human have become.

Posted by pensfan29 on 02/14/11 at 01:33 PM ET

Again, his fault for using the exact words, “We, as a league, must do a better job of protecting the integrity of the game and the safety of our players,” which encompasses any and all actions that endanger league integrity and player safety. And that’s where he (or his PR staff) should have stopped things, realizing that a look inside before passing judgment like this was necessary. Include the Simons, the Grattons and the Bertuzzis, as well as the Martins and the Gillies(es) here, but also include Cooke and friends.

The first paragraph exists. It sets the context of the later remarks. He’s talking about a circus in which the Steve Downey hit on McCammond was repeated and the Todd Bertuzzi travesty was attempted (in the same game!), not a knee by Bryan Marchment.

And again, Bryan Marchment was not the same thing as Vityaz Chekhov, and apparently the Islanders (considering Snow’s sickening and bizarre statement), are now.

Suckered Ovechkin? He was ready to go with him last year, squared up, man-to-man (as was OV) until Matt Bradley came off the bench and interrupted things.

And we’re talking far more than this year. Downie had a fine season a year ago.

He sucker-punched Ovechin on the play before the one he tried to fight him. And I’m not angry about anything Downie has done, but denying the parallels between him and Cooke requires blindness. Even worse, you’re criticizing Mario for not addressing an Orange while talking about an Apple then exercising in excuse-making when presented with an orange closer to home.

So, now, for the first time ever anywhere, you have a Pens fan acknowledges that Cooke is a dirty player. Sort of:

I’d read any article about Cooke from this site. He gets thrown under the bus by homers consistently.

Posted by StevieSteve on 02/14/11 at 01:34 PM ET

pensfan29 - kudos for the Macho Man Randy Savage reference. I agree completely that the Islanders antics were abhorrent and not on par with Cooke’s usual dirty play.

“Borderline legal or not, no one can say its not a “hockey play” that they see variations of multiple times a game.”  Really? Again, there is nothing “borderline” at all about Cooke’s hit on Tyutin, or most other things that have gotten him suspended (or not). Was it a hockey play? Sure. It’s in the NHL rulebook as an illegal hockey play.

This is the frustration with Pens fans. The failure to just admit that Cooke is a dirty player. Period. Is he YOUR dirty player? Yes. So I guess it’s hard to admit it fully. But jeez, it’s getting old.

As a Wings fan, I was very unhappy when they signed Bertuzzi. I think he should’ve been banned for life. However, in the spirit of giving a guy a second chance, I think Bertuzzi is an example of a guy who turned things around. He’s not dirty anymore (maybe other’s see something I don’t?). Hell, this season is the first season he’s stopped being a total weakling on the ice and started using his body again. I think the Moore incident really shook him because, until this season, he seemed very tentative out there. But Cooke, man, he just keeps up the “borderline” play no matter what.

“Hockey is the fastest sport around, sometimes players do stupid things. Sometimes they cannot react fast enough.” - I’ll reiterate my previous statement: “there are hundreds of other guys who skate around in the NHL who are passionate and play in the same fast game that don’t get suspended multiple times per year…”

I agree that the Islanders BS was total BS and basically just assault. But your post was just more defending Cooke, a straight up dirty player. Does he go out and sucker punch guys, or stomp on their legs with his skate (pronger), no. But he takes high speed runs at guys, slew foots guys (slews foot?), and generally likes to connect elbow to head a lot. He’s dirty.

Stop with the wishy-washy defense, it erodes your credibility.

Posted by awould on 02/14/11 at 01:51 PM ET

I don’t think I was defending Cooke. I admitted he was dirty, but his dirty plays are hockey plays where he crosses the line. The Isles’ commited assault, not illegal hockey plays.

Posted by pensfan29 on 02/14/11 at 01:56 PM ET

I’m sure when a player is paralyzed or killed from being hit head first into the boards he’ll be glad it was on a “hockey” play.

As kids we were taught not to instigate because you never knew where it would lead. Once you start you never know how far over the line it is going to go. What Gillies did was stupid and irrational and there is no excusing it, but the same can be said for Cooke. It is the constant justification of stupidity that makes it so rampant.

Posted by hockey1919 from mid-atlantic on 02/14/11 at 02:02 PM ET

I don’t think I was defending Cooke. I admitted he was dirty, but his dirty plays are hockey plays where he crosses the line. The Isles’ commited assault, not illegal hockey plays.

I took it as defending Cooke. Every time I read a Pens fan post about Cooke, it’s always couched with terms like “borderline” and “hockey play” and other things that make it seem like he’s just unlucky or misunderstood. Maybe I’m too sensitive about it, but it annoys me when the entire hockey loving world can just say he’s dirty, plain and simple, but Pens fans just can’t do it without all the qualifiers.

Anyways, I agree the Islanders actions would’ve ended up with jail terms if they happened anywhere but an NHL game.

I also agree w/ JJs main point about Lemieux casting stones from his glass house. There are problems in the league and they start with guys like Jordan Tootoo and move up to guys like Cooke. And then you have the Islanders actions, which are above and beyond dirty and should be handled as such.

Posted by awould on 02/14/11 at 02:06 PM ET

I don’t think I was defending Cooke. I admitted he was dirty, but his dirty plays are hockey plays where he crosses the line. The Isles’ commited assault, not illegal hockey plays.

Posted by pensfan29 on 02/14/11 at 12:56 PM ET

I mostly agree with you but don’t get the “hockey plays” reference. In any case lets say I completely agree with you.  In fact I’d like to go further and say you keep defending your point of view on this, but your defending it to no one, because everyone here agrees with you.  They are different.

We, as a league, must do a better job of protecting the integrity of the game and the safety of our players

Did the Isles actions jeopardize “the integrity of the game”?  YES
Does Cooke’s actions jeopardize “the integrity of the game”?  YES

Did the Isles actions jeopardize “the safety of our players”?  YES
Does Cooke’s actions jeopardize “the safety of our players”?  YES

I don’t think anyone here is using Cooke to defend the Isles’ actions.  We are just calling out Mario that if he’s going to preach, then he needs to practice what he preaches.  You keep saying apple vs. orange.  But in the context of Mario’s statement and wording there is NO orange.  It is purely Apple vs. Apple.

The only reason people are calling out Pen’s fans for being homers is because they are defending Mario (not Cooke) and attacking JJ for calling him out, when in fact JJ is totally correct.

Posted by Dahrken from Grand Rapids, MI on 02/14/11 at 03:32 PM ET

StevieSteve, we’re just not seeing or hearing each other here and I suppose that’s fine. You’ve been polite and I appreciate that in any argument. Your team was involved, so there’s no sense trying to get you to agree with me, especially when we’re so far apart on some of the issues here.

But, to be clear. I’m no homer. Whether Tampa wins or loses or Downie gets 0 PIM or gets a 20-game suspension means next-to-nothing to me. In short, I just work here. (Now then, I would like to cover some playoff action and that’s looking pretty good right now, thankfully.)

Cheers.

JJ

Posted by Jon Jordan from Tampa, FL on 02/14/11 at 07:51 PM ET