Phaneuf is being held out of the line-up on Saturday in Isles-Flames rematch.  So he turtled like a little baby ob Thursday and won’t answer the bell on Saturday.  He should wear a skirt the next time he plays.

And one of Brent Sutter’s cows should fall on him - right after his tractor rolls over his foot.

Posted by Islesfan on 09/18/09 at 09:39 PM ET

That’s part of my game. I have to play that way.

Well, if you’re aren’t the skilled guy everyone thought you’d be I guess you do have to resort to playing a “dirty” game.

I’m not going to fight that player, in that situation at this time of the year

Right…because the preseason isn’t the time of the year to risk injuring yourself in a fight. But apparently that same philosophy doesn’t apply to blatantly trying to injure someone else.

Phaneuf is a dirtbag and yes, Ms. Hall, he is a coward.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids on 09/18/09 at 10:29 PM ET

But apparently that same philosophy doesn’t apply to blatantly trying to injure someone else.

I’m curious as to what has blinded you to the fact that he was not simply trying to hurt someone.  Wow, he threw a bodycheck in a HOCKEY GAME.  What a bastard!!!  He finished a check on a guy who went off balance a split second before impact!  What an arsehole!

Seriously, what was so blatant?  Was it that Okposo had the puck?  That Phaneuf threw a solid, clean check?  That Phaneuf had NOTHING to do with Okposo being off balance when he threw the check?  Or was it that he didn’t have any time to react and change his check once Okposo went off balance?

Please enlighten because I’m sure a lot of us are curious to know what exactly made that clean hit a blatant attempt to injure…

Ridiculous…

Posted by Garth on 09/18/09 at 10:46 PM ET

Please enlighten because I’m sure a lot of us are curious to know what exactly made that clean hit a blatant attempt to injure…

Well, if you’d calm down for a few seconds, I’ll be happy to explain.

As I said in the original post, my objection to Phaneuf’s hit was that he made no attempt to avoid hitting Okposo in the head. In fact, after posting that, I went back to the video and looked at it frame by frame.

IMO, the video shows Phaneuf “lining up” Okposo from a good 25 feet away and then, while backing into position at high speed, he raises his left elbow and “aims” it at Okposo’s head. Phaneuf deliberately raised his arm/elbow to head height when he simply could have hit the guy with his shoulder. If you doubt it, take a look at these still frames.

If this was a one-time incident from someone who simply got carried away by the excitement of a game, it would be one thing. But, like Pronger, Phaneuf has a history of taking cheapshots at guys in vulneable positions. Personally, I think he’s a disgrace to hockey.

Now, does that answer all of your questions?

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids on 09/18/09 at 11:10 PM ET

Those screencaps only reinforce the fact that this was a clean hit. Phaneuf’s shoulder was actually below a normal standing level, and his elbow was below his shoulder. Phaneuf is two or three inches taller than Okposo, and it was unfortunate for Okposo that he lost his balance a little and was therefore leaning forward when he got hit, which lowered his head down near the level of Phaneuf’s shoulder and elbow. I doubt you really think he actually aimed for Okposo’s head. If so, then Phaneuf is an incredibly dangerous player who should be suspended for life from the NHL.

Fighting in hockey isn’t really allowed (the refs may let you finish, but it’s always a major penalty) and can result in injury. Why should Phaneuf be forced to risk injury and sit out 5 minutes just for a legal hit that was accidentally dangerous? Phaneuf said he wanted to stay in the game because it was close and he wanted to help his team win. Hitting opposing players when they come up through the middle can (1) take the puck back from the other team and (2) make the opposing players tentative with the puck. Having a star player not take a penalty lets him stay on the ice to help his team score. From a coach/team perspective, Phaneuf did two good things and avoided doing a bad thing. Calling him a “turtle” like Claude Lemieux is dumb. Claude Lemieux broke the rules by cross-checking a defenseless player up high and pushing his face into the boards, refused to apologize for the rule-breaking hit, and then refused to fight any Detroit player at any situation in any game. Phaneuf made a clean hit, and he probably just wanted to get on with the game and help his team win, so why fight?

I actually hate all post-hit fights. The scrums can often be dangerous to an injured player still on the ice, like Havlat after Kronwall’s hit, and since the hitting player doesn’t want to fight anyway, the fight is never any good. I’d rather a team’s tough guy keep talking trash to the hitting player until he gets fed up and wants to fight the tough guy. I would imagine Phaneuf immediately felt a tinge of remorse when he saw Okposo was injured, which would drop his adrenaline level, while the crazy guy coming off the bench was obviously filled with rage. If the Islanders had kept at Phaneuf the rest of the game, they probably would have gotten in his head to make him play worse or even start the fight himself. It could have been an epic battle to change the momentum in the game, but instead it was just a lame half-fight between some idiot who couldn’t control his emotions and another guy who didn’t want to fight.

Posted by Muero from Ohio on 09/19/09 at 12:27 AM ET

Okay…1)It’s the Preseason, 2)It’s not a conference opponent.

What the hell is the point?  Yeah you can beat up the Islanders but even a girl’s high school team can do that!  He’s just a punk.

Posted by stoneman from vegas on 09/19/09 at 08:00 AM ET

It was a clean hit.  I don’t think it was very smart for someone to jump off the bench and start a fight.  I know people are all fired up right when something like this happens, but you have to handle it better.  I don’t mind that Phaneuf didn’t fight right after the hit.  You have a player knocked out on the ice and all you care about is going after the guy that hit him?  Why not make sure your player is ok then take care of business later in the game.  Phaneuf should definitely drop the gloves later in the game if he was challenged (didn’t see the game, but assuming he was.)  That’s what happened in the Bertuzzi/Moore incident.  If Moore would have just stood up and fought, win/lose or draw, and it never would have escalated to the point it did.  Either way, first things first, you should go to your teammate and make sure he’s ok, then worry about the culprit.  Clean hit or not, you have to know they’re going to be coming after you.

Posted by Adam from Buffalo, NY on 09/19/09 at 08:17 AM ET

That’s what happened in the Bertuzzi/Moore incident.  If Moore would have just stood up and fought, win/lose or draw, and it never would have escalated to the point it did.  Either way, first things first, you should go to your teammate and make sure he’s ok, then worry about the culprit.  Clean hit or not, you have to know they’re going to be coming after you.

Nice revisionism.  Moore did fight someone earlier in the game - Bertuzzi dragged him down later after the previous fight, which, according to the supposed “code,” should have fulfilled his obligations - and after the game was already out of hand.

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 09/19/09 at 08:52 AM ET

As I said in the original post, my objection to Phaneuf’s hit was that he made no attempt to avoid hitting Okposo in the head.

Ok, that’s great.  You watched slow motion replays of the it and decided that he somehow should’ve been able to pull up in the split second between Okposo being knocked off balance and Phanaeuf making contact.  Wonderfull screencaps by the way.

Now go watch it at FULL SPEED and tell me he had any time to change up his hit.

What a crock of bull.

Let’s take a look at these screencaps.

#1 Phaneuf lines him up.
Really?  And where do you get that from?  I see a still of two guys skating.

#2 He starts skating in backawards.
Yeah, he does.  Now let’s take a look at that picture.  Is that the “from 25 feet away” you were talking about?  Cuz it looks like, maybe, 10 to me.

#3 and #4
Interesting, because you say he raises his elbow and points it at Okposo’s head.  First off, his elbow is in a different position, that is true, but so his his body in a different position on the ice.  Ever skate before, OTC?  If you’ve skated, even once, you know that as you take strides, forwards or backwards, your arms are moving.  The fact that his elbow is in a different position does not mean he raised it to hit the guy.  And interesting thing in #4, too.  You say he aims it at Okposo, I see his elbow at the same height as in #3 with a big difference.  Okposo’s head is not where it was in #3.  It has dropped down.

#5 Phaneuf’s elbow AGAIN has not raised.  In fact, he’s crouched a little and his elbow is only a little higher than it would be if he was not moving at all.  And again, Okposo’s head has lowered because he was off balance.

Now, let’s look at #3, 4 and 5 as a sequence.  In #3, they’re about 6 feet away from eachother and in #3 Okposo’s head is at normal height.  They’re both professional hockey players, skating full speed during a hockey game.  So, in less than six feet, playing at full speed, Okposo’s head drops at least a foot.

Now again, let’s look at this at full speed.  Okposo gets bumped at the 3 second mark and the hit happens at the 4 second mark.  That means that he gets bumped, goes off-balance and his head goes down all in the span of less than a second.

Of full-speed hockey.

And this is Phaneuf’s fault?

So, I’ll ask it again, in a completely calm fashion so as not to fluster you, and I’ll even be more specific this time: can you explain exactly how Phaneuf is supposed to avoid what happened?  I mean, of course, beyond changing the whole play and deciding that he’s going to let Okposo pass by him and score, not even bothering to attempt a hit.

Or maybe he shouldn’t have been on the ice?  Maybe Sutter should’ve been able to anticipate this play, much in the same way that Phaneuf should’ve been able to anticipate Okposo’s head dropping at the last millisecond?

Go ahead.  Please.  I won’t interrupt you.

Personally, I think he’s a disgrace to hockey.

Well there we go.  At least now we know your opinion of the hit is an unbiased account of the actual hit and not some pre-existing hatred you have.

Cry me a river, old man.

1)It’s the Preseason, 2)It’s not a conference opponent.

1)  It’s hockey.  2) Okposo had the puck.

Should Phaneuf have let up on the hit because he’s not fighting for a job?  Well, let’s look at Okposo.  He played 65 games last year and netted 39 points.  I hardly think his job was in jeopardy with the Isles, so why aren’t we mad at him for not letting up on the offensive play?  I mean, if he had simply dumped the puck in and coasted in rather than trying to make a great hockey play then Phaneuf would’ve had no reason to hit him, thereby making a great hockey play.

Did I mention that it’s hockey?  We all know this is hockey, right?  Professional hockey at the highest level?  Not youth hockey in which hitting isn’t allowed?

Posted by Garth on 09/19/09 at 10:09 AM ET

Those screencaps only reinforce the fact that this was a clean hit.

Well, Muero, as the saying goes, “There are none so blind as those who will not see. If you think those still frames exonerate Phaneuf, there’s nothing more that I can say to you.

You watched slow motion replays of the it and decided that he somehow should’ve been able to pull up in the split second between Okposo being knocked off balance and Phanaeuf making contact.

If you weren’t in such a snit over this incident, Garth, you’d have actually been able to read what I said. My objection has nothing to do with Phaneuf not being able to “pull up in a split second” to avoid the hit. My objection is that he chose to hit Okposo in the head with his elbow. But, as with Muero, if you choose to see something different in the video, there’s nothing more I can say to you.

Wonderfull screencaps by the way.

Hey, don’t blame me for the quality of the screenshots. That’s entirely dependent on the quality of the video. But you knew that already, didn’t you? You just wanted to throw out a cheap shot, right? That’s one thing you have in common with your hero Phaneuf.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids on 09/19/09 at 10:27 AM ET

Well, Okposo won’t be keeping his head down after this. 

Maybe Phaneuf should have let up, maybe Okposo should have dumped…if only…if only… if only.  This is a load of crap.  I don’t see anyone whining and complaining when football players get injured.

It’s pretty dang obvious it was a clean hit.  Most people concur it was a hit from his shoulder.  The video proves it.  Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a fan of his.  I almost hate him as much as Pronger.  Maybe instead of the Islanders going up in arms, they should try to teach Okposo not to put his head down.  It’s been said for years and still players do it.

This argument happens every time it’s an open ice hit.  You put yourself in that position and you have to be ready to get creamed.  Phaneuf was well within his rights.  Head up, head up, head up!

Posted by Matt Fry from Winnipeg on 09/19/09 at 04:11 PM ET

Well, Muero, as the saying goes, “There are none so blind as those who will not see. If you think those still frames exonerate Phaneuf, there’s nothing more that I can say to you.

Man, you should write a book called “How To Win Every Argument Every Time No Matter What.”

Here’s the formula:

(1) Your opponent may make lots of cogent arguments with facts, logic, evidence, etc., but don’t worry about facts, logic, evidence, etc.

(2) Make an exasperated comment about how your opponent is not able to understand why you are correct.

(3)No matter what, your opponent’s tiny brain just doesn’t work right, so don’t even bother wasting your time trying to explain your side.

(3) Put a self-satisfied smile on your face. It sure feels good to be right all the time!

It’s foolproof!

Posted by Muero from Ohio on 09/19/09 at 04:57 PM ET

Aww, crap! My list of 4 items somehow is numbered only to three. My mistake.

Posted by Muero from Ohio on 09/19/09 at 04:58 PM ET

(1) Your opponent may make lots of cogent arguments with facts, logic, evidence, etc.

Where’s your “evidence”? I took the time to take still frames from the video and point out exactly where Phaneuf raised his elbow to hit Okposo in the head and your response was basically, “Oh, no, he didn’t.”

You’ll continue believing whatever you want to, Muero…facts, logic and (wait for it) cogent arguments aside. The bottom line is you wouldn’t recognize a “clear, logical, and convincing” argument if it elbowed you in the head.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids on 09/19/09 at 05:54 PM ET

If you can provide evidence that Phaneuf was deliberately aiming for Okposo’s head, I will give you my piano, one of my legs, and my wife.

Posted by Muero from Ohio on 09/19/09 at 05:57 PM ET

If you can provide evidence that Phaneuf was deliberately aiming for Okposo’s head, I will give you my piano, one of my legs, and my wife.

I’ve already done that with the still frames I provided, but you can keep all of your “goodies”. Your piano is, no doubt, out of tune. Your leg is probably as “lame” as your arguments. And, well, I can only imagine what a gem your wife must be.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids on 09/19/09 at 06:57 PM ET

You cannot determine a person’s intention except through self-reporting (assuming they’re telling the truth). And why the resort to ad hominem attacks? You do know that’s a logical fallacy, right? (From Wikipedia: “This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent’s personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent’s arguments or assertions.”) The “piano, leg, wife” reference was from Tim Minchin.

Posted by Muero from Ohio on 09/19/09 at 07:06 PM ET

The “piano, leg, wife” reference was from Tim Minchin.

So you’re admitting that you don’t have an original thought in your head. Well, that’s pretty much as I expected. Like Phaneuf, you only know how to “attack” and then claim your complete innocence.

And we’re all waiting for your evidence of Phaneuf’s innocence in his attack on Okposo. I gave you my evidence of his guilt. So far, all we have from you is a bunch of rhetoric and claims of “Oh, no, he didn’t.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids on 09/19/09 at 10:19 PM ET