A compliment to Ken Holland.
I gather he tries to not trade players too much, as it is difficult on them and their families. 
None-the-less, I suspect he is going to be forced to trade 1 or 2 guys this fall.

Posted by w2j2 on 07/07/08 at 08:10 AM ET

I really don’t think you can compare Buffalo with Detroit. One is a MAJOR American city. The other is NOT. I’m sure the Red Wings make a heck of alot more money than the Sabres and revenue sharing is not going to bridge the cap between the two. That being said….the Sabres are just stupid. They could have signed Campbell and Vanek a long time ago for less money and letting Drury and Briere walk was probably unavoidable but they could have replaced them with a FA if they had Vanek and Campbell under contract. They just make dumb decisions. If they ever lose Lindy Ruff they will really be screwed.

Posted by kevin from boston on 07/07/08 at 08:21 AM ET

He’s not talking about making money - he’s talking about the environment.  With the cap, even though some teams have lower budgets, they have an upper bound on their spending - the writer is pointing out that in his opinion if the same contract were offered to a player, identical money from Buffalo or from Detroit, the player would be more likely to choose Detroit based at least partially on the stability of ownership and the good reputation that the organization has within the league.

He’d be more confident that he wouldn’t be jerked around in contract negotiations, he’d be treated fairly and profesionally if he were to be traded, and a no-trade clause would be honored if given, instead of the team trying to bully him into waiving it.

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 07/07/08 at 10:23 AM ET

The Sabres are known more for their commitment to the bottom line than their commitment to winning.

And players know that the Wings #1 commitment is to winning. Mr. I and Ken & Company make that clear every year by their actions.

I’m sure the Red Wings make a heck of alot more money than the Sabres and revenue sharing is not going to bridge the cap between the two.

I’m not so sure that’s true, Kevin…or at least it shouldn’t be. As Gleason points out, Buffalo is a “passionate hockey town” and the Sabres ticket prices are on par with the Wings. If they would put a quality product on the ice, they’d make money like the Wings do. They’re being “penny wise and pound foolish” by not doing that.

The Red Wings signed (Hossa) to a one-year deal for $7.4 million because they built a reputation for doing things right. And that’s the difference.

It’s everything from Mr. I ponying up for a team plane to Holland letting a new guy like Brad Stuart miss the first game of the playoffs last spring so he could spend an extra day with his wife and their newborn. The organ-I-zation doesn’t just say they treat everyone like family, they actually do it.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids on 07/07/08 at 10:29 AM ET

OTC said “If they would put a quality product on the ice, they’d make money like the Wings do.”

I’m not being a smart-ass, but how?  They sold the building out for two straight years.  By putting a better quality product on the ice where would the additional money come from?

They have been at the top of merchandise sales, so that’s probably out.  Maybe a better TV contract, but they already lead the NHL in ratings among US cities.  I’m at a loss for where the additional dough comes from.

Posted by KevinP on 07/07/08 at 10:56 AM ET

Excluding sponsorships and playoff revenues is there really that much of a difference between the two teams, or is it more of a case of wanting to have higher profits for the hockey team operations?

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 07/07/08 at 11:15 AM ET

I’m not being a smart-ass, but how?  They sold the building out for two straight years.  By putting a better quality product on the ice where would the additional money come from?

HSBC Arena in Buffalo seats 18,690. The Joe seats 1,376 more at 20,066. So, I guess it would have to come from their owner(s)...just the way it does in Detroit. How they make that work financially is beyond me, although there’s no doubt that they’ve been helped by the Cap.

But, as this summer has shown, it’s not all about money. It’s about a team environment. Guys take less to play in Detroit (a city that everyone supposedly hates) because of the way they’re treated.

I think Stuart is a perfect example. He got a little more than the Wings wanted to pay, but a fair amount less than he could have gotten elsewhere. So why did he sign? I think the way they treated him during the birth of his child had a lot to do with it. And that didn’t cost the Wings one penny…although it potentially could have cost them a playoff game.

The Wings organ-I-zation seems to instinctively know what the right thing to do is. It’s part of their culture…Mr. I’s culture. Maybe that’s what needs to change in Buffalo. Maybe the owners just need to develop a culture that puts winning and the players’ welfare above their own welfare. In the end, they’ll probably find an improvement in both the team and their bottom line because of it.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids on 07/07/08 at 11:21 AM ET

First, Gleason’s been on an anti-Sabres crusade since at least last summer.  His act has really grown old, and is no longer based on any objective fact but simply reeks of his own personal bias.

Secondly, Detroit has had a record of success, but let’s keep things in perspective.  Three of their recent cups came pre-lockout, when they had one of the highest payrolls in hockey.  Since the lockout, they actually haven’t had much playoff success aside from this year.  They do well during the regular season, but they also play in arguably one of the weakest divisions in hockey.  Also, they’ve been the beneficiaries of their own drafts, which means that they’ve kept their own guys and not had to overspend on FA’s - among their forwards, only 1 (Datsyuk) last year made more than $2.7 million.  The true test of the Detroit mystique isn’t this year, following the cup, but what happens when players like Zetterberg, Franzen, and others start to hit UFA and can likely at least double their salaries on the open market.  The only way Detroit could keep their key players from this year’s team is if they take a significant discount; otherwise, Detroit may end up being a salary cap/FA casualty like Buffalo and Pittsburgh.

Posted by Dan from Pittsburgh on 07/07/08 at 12:04 PM ET

Bucky Gleason is a jackass and no one should put any stock in anything he writes.

Posted by E on 07/07/08 at 12:19 PM ET

Yet another stupid column from one of the worst daily newspapers in the country..way to go ‘Snooze’

Posted by Kenny from Buffalo on 07/07/08 at 12:38 PM ET

Secondly, Detroit has had a record of success, but let’s keep things in perspective.  Three of their recent cups came pre-lockout, when they had one of the highest payrolls in hockey.  Since the lockout, they actually haven’t had much playoff success aside from this year.

More Pens fan revisionist history. Yes, they lost in the first round in 2006. But they made the Western Conference Finals in 2007. And they won the Cup in 2008. Any other team in the League would love to have that level of success, including the Pens.

Also, they’ve been the beneficiaries of their own drafts, which means that they’ve kept their own guys and not had to overspend on FA’s - among their forwards

Exactly! That’s the whole point. They keep their best players (drafted, traded for, signed as a UFA, whatever) because those players want to play in Detroit. And they usually take less to do so.

...but what happens when players like Zetterberg, Franzen, and others start to hit UFA and can likely at least double their salaries on the open market.

First of all, none of their UFAs could double their salary on the open market. Stuart wasn’t going to get $7.5M from anyone. But there’s no doubt some of them could get up to 25% more. So, what will happen? Just look at Datsyuk. He could have gotten close to $8M last summer, but he chose to stay for less.

There certainly are no guarantees but history would indicate that Zetterberg will sign for the Wings max of $7.45M (based on Lidstrom’s salary) as opposed to $9M he could get somewhere else. The Mule will get a fair offer and he’ll probably take it. If he doesn’t, the Wings will have more than enough to sign Hossa. And that is the brilliance of Ken Holland at work. He always seems to leave himself a good out when there’s a bad situation.

The only way Detroit could keep their key players from this year’s team is if they take a significant discount; otherwise, Detroit may end up being a salary cap/FA casualty like Buffalo and Pittsburgh.

Yup. And, again, history tells us that the Wings’ players will, indeed, take a “significant discount” to stay in Detroit, where everyone seems to enjoy playing hockey and winning Cups.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids on 07/07/08 at 12:59 PM ET

OlderThanChelios: A small point, but I’m actually a Buffalo fan although I’ve had to relocate to Pittsburgh for grad school.

Secondly, when I was referencing UFAs doubling their salaries on the open market I specifically excluded the defensemen, referring only to forwards.  Perhaps that was unclear, but the defense are actually paid more lucratively than the forwards.  Even if Zetterberg does sign for $7.45 million, that’s still 257% of his current salary of $2.9 million.  That’s what I intended to highlight, particularly when it continues to roll down to player like Franzen, etc.

And actually, I think Detroit’s example of drafting well is exactly what teams like Buffalo are trying to do.  Draft well, and then identify the players you want to keep long term.  The Drury, Briere and Campbell situations, I think, are not a fair representation of Buffalo’s strategy.  I think they were truly shocked by Drury’s departure, but they knew they couldn’t afford to keep all three, and they knew they couldn’t afford to keep Campbell after last year’s free agent frenzy.  Most importantly, they couldn’t afford to keep those guys and then pay the young players like Vanek, Roy, Pominville and Miller when they started hitting RFA and UFA status.  If Campbell had to go to get Rivet plus sign Pominiville and Miller, that’s a trade I think Buffalo would make every time, and I would support.

I don’t know that Buffalo’s failure to sign pricey UFAs, in other words, is indicative of systemic problems with Buffalo’s reputation.  It seems like it’s more a function of their business strategy, which is sign young talented players before their price gets bloated by free agency.  It may be unpopular on July 1st, but I don’t know that it’s not the better long-term strategy.

Posted by Dan from Pittsburgh on 07/07/08 at 01:18 PM ET

Secondly, when I was referencing UFAs doubling their salaries on the open market I specifically excluded the defensemen, referring only to forwards. ... Even if Zetterberg does sign for $7.45 million, that’s still 257% of his current salary of $2.9 million.  That’s what I intended to highlight, particularly when it continues to roll down to player like Franzen, etc.

Okay, Dan, I get what you were saying. But the point really isn’t whether or not the Wings can sign players when their current salary doubles. It’s whether they can sign players for less than they would get on the open market. That was the original premise of Gleason’s article…i.e., players don’t want to play in Buffalo even if they’re offered more money to do so.

The Wings certainly have some Cap issues coming up next spring. But either players like Hank, Mule and Happy (I’m specifically ignoring Sammy here) sign for an amout that will fit under the Cap or Holland will move on to others who do want to play in Detroit. In fact, Hossa’s presence tells Mule that the Wings have an option (and a really good option) in place if he wants to leave.

IMO, things like this are what makes Ken Holland the best GM in the League. He rarely gets caught in a situation where he doesn’t have an out. I’m betting that even the current issue with Filppula, which seems rather dire, turns out to be no big thing a month from now. Either Fil signs for money the Wings can afford or he leaves and practically guarantees that the Wings will sign Hossa next spring while providing opportunities for other NHL-ready players to move up the ladder a year early.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids on 07/07/08 at 01:36 PM ET

Detroit is also benefitting from being able to develop good players for a while, because they don’t have a bunch of contracts all coming due for big raises at once, and that has hurt Pittsburgh.

If all the contracts are somewhat staggered so some players are on their lower, first contracts, others are varying lengths along their more lucrative, prime-of-career contracts, and a few more are playing under old-experienced-cheap-veteran contracts, then the total payroll won’t change as much from one season to the next because some players will age out of the cohort at the same time others are getting their raises.

It takes a long time to build up that kind of depth, though - after all, it took better than a decade for Detroit to reach that point.

I think what hurt Buffalo more than anything else was the “we don’t negotiate during the regular season” stance that left them open to players who wanted to stay having big years, and then near the end of the season wonder why not check the market and see what they could get, since they were so close to the offseason anyway?

Posted by Baroque from Michigan on 07/07/08 at 01:55 PM ET

Good points by both OlderThanChelios and Baroque.  And I agree that the policy of not negotiating during the season hurt, but I think that the absolute insanity of the salaries during the last week also hurts.  Players even a year away now can see the crazy money that’s being thrown around and say why not me?  Even if they have a down year, they’re not going to take that much of a hit.  Sure some guys will enjoy their current situation so much that they want to stay, but for many of them I’m sure the idea of getting in on the free agent game will be too enticing.  If I’m Ryan Miller, why do I even think about signing a contract right now?  If I have a bounce back year and make it into the top 10 in goaltending statistics, I’ve got a huge payday from a team that’s got a need in net.  The trend in the market has only been going up, so Miller might even be able to surpass Lundqvist’s deal, even though I don’t think he’s the goalie Lundqvist is.  The important thing to remember is that teams can only do so much, and if players are determined to test the market the team can’t do anything to stop that, as Pittsburgh found out with Hossa.

Posted by Dan from Pittsburgh on 07/07/08 at 02:02 PM ET

...the total payroll won’t change as much from one season to the next because some players will age out of the cohort at the same time others are getting their raises.

The one thing that’s throwing a bit of a monkey wrench into that approach for the Wings right now is that Nick Sr. just keeps getting better as he gets older. He’ll be 40 when his current contract expires and, at that time, he may well be worth more than he’s making now.

And, of course, those once-in-a-lifetime opportunities (like signing Hossa for $7.45M for one year) pop up now and then to mess with the whole process. If Hossa had taken Edmonton’s offer, the Wings would have done what they originally planned to do: sign Fil for a decent raise, add a veteran goal scorer for $3.5M-$4.5M, and then tried to find a veteran “heart and soul” guy like Drake for a million or so.

The beauty of having Ken & Company running the show is that you just know they’ll find a way to make this all work…in part because top players really want to play here, even if they have to give up some cash to do it.

And, Dan, based on your rational comments, it’s now obvious that you’re not a Pens fan.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids on 07/07/08 at 02:49 PM ET

This is just fallout from Sabres management complete bungling of Drury and Briere’s free agency.

By the way, just a factoid to throw out there…  Detroit and Anaheim have each won six playoff series since the lockout.  The next closest are Buffalo and Ottawa, at four.

Posted by Ryan from Toronto on 07/07/08 at 03:58 PM ET

isn’t the United States trying to pawn Buffalo off to Mexico to complete treaty ending Mexican-American War? Seriously, fans don’t show unless the team’s in first, ownership cares more about the bottom line than winning a Cup, Lindy Ruff whines incessantly, and Rick Jeanrette is just plain irritating…not to mention the place is frigid, has no night life, and light years from civilization; I believe the abacus is the newest invention circulating Buffalo’s city limits at the moment

Posted by Percy Weaver from New York on 07/07/08 at 06:04 PM ET

Percy: I do hope that’s an attempt at sarcasm.  Rick Jeanrette annoying? Really?  Buffalo’s an alright place to be, and personally I miss it, and I’ve lived some much bigger places (NYC, London).  Hell, if it’s good enough for Scotty Bowman (who still lives there), it’s good enough for me.

Posted by Dan from Pittsburgh on 07/07/08 at 07:37 PM ET

Oh, and OlderFromChelios: Thanks! I just wish we could pry Holland from you guys - Darcy’s ok, but it’s tough to argue with Holland’s track record.

Posted by Dan from Pittsburgh on 07/07/08 at 07:38 PM ET

Yeah Dan, I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek but must admit I’m not a big Jeanrette fan; I see how Sabres’ fans dig his eccentric style, but he’s too much of a homer for my tastes…my only problem with Buffalo is their constant complaining about the state of the Game, and how they’re trying to institute rule changes like bigger nets to increase scoring.

Posted by Percy Weaver from New York on 07/07/08 at 07:46 PM ET

Percy, Yeah, I could see that about Jeannrette - as a Sabres fan in Pittsburgh I have the same problem with the local announcers.  I’m sure for Pens fans it’s fine, but for everybody else the “ra ra Pens” factor gets tiresome.

I also agree somewhat with your second point - I do think the Sabres are advocates of the more open style that the league had right after the lockout, basically because that’s the style they built their team around.  I enjoyed that from an entertainment perspective, and I’m generally in favor of more scoring, but I’m not sure bigger nets or smaller goalie equipment is the answer.  If they just enforced the existing rules the same way they did following the lockout, I think things would be fine. Of course I have a personal stake (as a fan) in that outcome.

Posted by Dan from Pittsburgh on 07/07/08 at 07:54 PM ET

I do think the Sabres are advocates of the more open style that the league had right after the lockout, basically because that’s the style they built their team around.  I enjoyed that from an entertainment perspective…

I think most fans would agree with you, Dan. Personally, I loved watching the Sabres in the post-lockout “Briere/Drury” days. But Lil’ Gary and his band of merry idiots seem determined to tinker with the game until they ruin it completely.

Posted by OlderThanChelios from Grand Rapids on 07/07/08 at 11:03 PM ET