Now that I’ve seen some of the things the blogger who got booted was posting, no freaking kidding he got kicked out.

Are you kidding me?  Dropping f-bombs and calling Oiler players ‘disgusting’... from the press box?!?!?!

Not only should he have been kicked out, before they booted his ass to the curb they should have dragged him down to the Oiler lockerroom and made him actually stand up in front of the players and repeat his comments to their face.

The more details come out about this, the more it looks like the blogger was not exactly setting a stellar example for the rest of you dudes.

The morale of the story is, as always, choose your martyrs carefully.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 10/21/08 at 05:15 AM ET

I would not say there is any martyr here. I would say that there was an incident, one that goes on without much thought, but that this incident should prompt changes, big or small. A quote from Eric McErlain in the blog:

“Unfortunately, I’m not the PR guy in Edmonton. I’m just a PR guy in Washington, DC who blogs about hockey as a hobby. But as a PR professional in the business for almost two decades, I will say this—anybody in the sports business who doesn’t know how to deal with bloggers in the year 2008 just isn’t doing their job.  ... Understanding how to deal with bloggers should be basic blocking and tackling for a PR person, not something you deal with in a huff while hurling threats at a person who’s just trying to do their job—and promote your product at the same time.”

I can accept that some teams may want no association with bloggers. I was at the Wings/Sens game over Thanksgiving, and as expected for such a big game the press box did appear to be full, and I can’t say I’d expect it to happen any time soon that ASM gets media credentials over MSM.
But changes are happening, acceptance of sorts is coming. The Canucks have used bloggers in many ads recently, and those three people gathered in a basement somewhere that Herbert mentions, I consider that to be Sens Underground, and while they don’t sit in the press box, the Ottawa Senators’ organization has given them prize packs to give to their listeners in contests. So however slowly, acceptance is coming.

Posted by SENShobo from Waterloo, ON on 10/21/08 at 06:05 AM ET

And as a blogger who clearly has a bias and/or an agenda in this matter, I’m not at all shocked Eric (or bloggers in general) have that opinion.

However, what the blogger in question did at the Oilers game was simply indefensible.  His comments were highly exaggerated and wildly inappropriate in a professional setting… a professional setting whose veil, mind you, is one that bloggers as a whole seem to be anxious to pierce.

By allowing that sort of quasi-juvenile antics into their press box the Edmonton Oilers will appear to be giving de facto approval of such misbehavior, and that sort of wantonly misdirected negativity won’t do their team any real favors.  Some goofball posting ‘Zack Stortini is a disgusting hockey player’ at home in his PJs isn’t somthing a player is going to worry about.  The same goofball in jeans and a polo posting the same thing from the media box with the acquiescence of the organization is a wholly different thing.

By defending his percieved right of immunity to any repercussions derived from what he was posting bloggers show themselves to be as not ready for prime time as the MSM and establishment warn.

Bloggers should be railing against such blatant disregard of professionalism, accountability and just common freaking sense from one of your bretheren… not gathering behind him like he’s Martin Luther.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 10/21/08 at 07:12 AM ET

The danger here again rises from people’s tendancy to lump us all together as ‘bloggers’, hence why I’d love to see a new title emerge for those between those in PJs who have no need for professionalism, and the MSM (I’m calling it ASM, Alternative Stream Media, at this point). I’m not going to defend what was done, and neither has the entire blogosphere. I can’t say where I’d lump this case, but in the world of bloggers, there is a huge spectrum, just as in the world of other entertainment reporting nobody is going to lump Barbara Walters in with Perez Hilton, and yet we seem to get that kind of treatment.
Yes, Eric is certainly going to view things from that position as a blogger, but can you be surprised that he does when Caps owner Ted Leonsis asks him to draft guidelines for giving bloggers media credentials, and those credentials get put up for and are critiqued by both average fans and professional MSM alike?

Posted by SENShobo from Waterloo, ON on 10/21/08 at 07:40 AM ET

Hold on a second.  Are you actually going to try and spin to me that the blogosphere isn’t ripping into the Oilers for booting that guy?  Sure, you can spin it and say you’re mostly all (although I’ve yet to see a blogger defend the Oilers actions I’ll give random chance the benefit of the doubt) not actually, literally defending what he said as right, proper, and covered-in-Jesus pure… but if you’re tearing into the team that booted him I can’t possibly imagine how else one should interpret it but that his eviction wasn’t warranted.

And Ted Leonsis is by -far- the exception rather than the rule here.  First, his team tends to stink and draw less-than-full barns so of course he’s reaching out to any rope, PR-wise.  Secondly, he made his cash in the communications industry.  He himself blogs and answeres direct email… he clearly enjoys that means of communication.

I’m waiting to hear one convincing, rational reason why bringing bloggers into the media room is anything but a sucker-bet for NHL teams.  Sure, there are maybe 5 guys out there that I’ve ever read who bring enough game to make their posts interesting and who may, may be decent as more full-time on-site bloggers… but yeesh.  For every 1 of them there are 50 other guys who are just clueless, loud, and ignorant.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 10/21/08 at 10:33 AM ET

Many are ripping into the Oilers, but as I said elsewhere, it is the most polarized views that tend to be heard, and those accusations are indeed very polarized, one-sided views.

The only facts we can confirm are that Dave was issued credentials to be in the press box for one purpose, and then proceeded to work on an unrelated matter in an unprofessional and profane manner, all of which is grounds for dismissal from the press box. Based on those, the only real verifiable facts at this point, I defend the Oilers decision to ask him to cease, remove the material, and initially vow to never again give him media credentials.

The unclear parts - how either party behaved during the interaction - I cannot speak for, and so I cannot defend either Dave or the Oilers with respect to those accusations.

Posted by SENShobo from Waterloo, ON on 10/21/08 at 11:33 AM ET

While I’m not aware of the breadth or depth of your comments on this matter, SENS, would you consider yourself in the majority amongst your bretheren, or the minority?

As I mentioned earlier, I didn’t see one blogger come out in support of the Oilers.  Not one.  They may be out there, but I didn’t see them.  Every blogger I saw commenting on the issue was ranging from either firing both barrels into the Oilers and levelling some pretty crazy accusations, to keeping their comments carefully bland, but still pretty obviously disappointed with what the Oilers did, and mostly towards the double-barrel end of that spectrum.

Greg Wyshysnski: “Now, Berry is a symbol and symptom of the continued hypocrisy, idiocy and inflexibility that still incredibly defines many of the relationships between bloggers, NHL teams’ media relations foot soldiers and, by proxy, the mainstream hockey media.”

David Staples: “It will be in the Oilers long-term interest to deal with the bloggers of the Oilogosphere in a rational manner. What happened to Berry, going by his story, doesn’t appear to be rational. Berry should not only be allowed to continue with his work at Oilers games as a paid member of the mainstream media, but he should be allowed to blog “live” for his non-mainstream blog.”

Paul Kukla: “Why is it some NHL teams get it and others just don’t?  Maybe if they took the time out to try to understand what bloggers actually do, they would be much more receptive instead of always looking over the shoulder of a blogger.”

That’s three guys right off the top of my head and easily referenced, certainly not lightweights in the blogging sphere, and there are also three obviously flawed, from the hip, emotional and generally misinformed comments now that we have a greater understanding of the details of the situation.

This is what I’m talking about, SENS.  When you have some of the luminaries among bloggers (although I don’t see Paul as a blogger, per se)  jumping to conclusions in defense of a fellow blogger and launching their opinion off into the aether before all the facts are in, or even just the other side of the story… well, that’s how the moderately negative opinion of bloggers that they are so eager to change gets created and reinforced.

Now that we know what went down, was kicking Berry out (see, I finally remember his name! ) “hypocricy, idiocy and inflexibility?”  No.  Was it a matter of the Oilers lacking ‘understanding’?  No.  Was Edmonton being ‘irrational’?  No.  According to them they viewed the content of Berry’s posts, posts which were pretty obviously both profane and aggressively antagonistic, and asked him to go, among other reasons.

Sure, there were probably miscommunication issues at play here as well, both between Berry and his employers, his employers and the Oielrs, and Berry and the Oilers.  Be that as it may, for what I’ve read to be an at least moderately viewed and respected blogger to think even in his wildest dreams that it would be appropriate for him to write as he did about the team from their own press box speaks poorly to his decision-making, and by extension to other bloggers.

Maybe it’s not fair to overgeneralize like that, but life isn’t fair.  NHL teams are trying to protect their investments, so how many times are they supposed to invite totally unaffiliated bloggers into their arenas for the priviledge of getting a somewhat different perspective on the game… how many times should they expect to be burned by guys blasting the team and dropping f-bombs in print, and then get villified by reactionary bloggers if they nip that behavior in the bud?

You guys are really expecting wayyyyyyy too much.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 10/21/08 at 05:41 PM ET

I can’t do much to defend two of those three quotes, but professionalism is something I know Paul strives for, as he has talked to me about the issue of media credentials when I inquired about the possibility, and I would suggest (thought Paul would need to confirm) that his quote was more directed at the fact that bloggers in general get lumped together, with the most negative aspects one can find being put into the lens through which many organizations choose to view all bloggers.

I have said many times on various different strings on the subject throughout the KK blogs that I support the Oilers’ right to do what they did, though we are all still waiting for verifiable and independant confirmation of how the events transpired. I suggested to those who could not think of any reason why Berry would hyperbolize the way in which events unfolded that there were many possible reasons, and another one comes to mind when you say you haven’t read much on my thoughts: traffic. Yes, he has stopped blogging, but his last two blog posts have near undoubtedly received more hits now than in a long time, possibly even rivaling the attention paid to the blog when the Oilers made the Finals. Traffic is something bloggers are accused of seeking in writing very shocking posts (though the same could be said of today’s article about speculation of a second NHL team in Toronto), and so I hesitated to mention my own post about the subject matter, and indeed it is the lone post I have seen on KK on the topic that is still without comments.

I expect nothing from the League. When I started blogging, I did it purely for my own enjoyment, since writing about politics doesn’t always wind up with me in a cheerful mood. Everything that has happened since then - my first hit, my first comment, my first meeting with fellow bloggers/podcasters, and now my journey here to KK - I consider it all a series of gifts which I’ve been fortunate enough to receive. Never did I feel entitled, I have always felt privileged. I think that many who receive such gifts and others - such as those with close ties to the Canucks, the Isles, the Sharks, the Caps, and others - also feel privileged, not entitled.

I never expect to be let into the press box in Ottawa, or Toronto, or any other city. But should I ever even get the opportunity to speak with someone affiliated in any way with the League, let alone anything else, I will feel privileged, extremely fortunate, and will continue to conduct myself in the manner I feel I have consistently done on my own, and now continue to do under the KK banner.

Posted by SENShobo from Waterloo, ON on 10/21/08 at 09:05 PM ET

“I can’t do much to defend two of those three quotes, but professionalism is something I know Paul strives for, as he has talked to me about the issue of media credentials when I inquired about the possibility, and I would suggest (thought Paul would need to confirm) that his quote was more directed at the fact that bloggers in general get lumped together, with the most negative aspects one can find being put into the lens through which many organizations choose to view all bloggers.”

I have no idea how you can read that into a comment which explicitly calls out NHL teams for not acting differently towards bloggers.

As far as their getting ‘lumped in together’ goes… SENS, three pretty big blogging types pretty much just dropped their shorts over this issue.  If the bigger names will overreact this way, why wouldn’t teams feel it to be a pretty darn safe bet to assume that most would?  For better or worse guys like Puck Daddy, Staples and Kukla… along with dudes like Berry who already had some degree of access… are going to have to be among the flag carriers on this one.  If they don’t present themselves well it’s going to set this Blogger Respect movement back quite a while.

have said many times on various different strings on the subject throughout the KK blogs that I support the Oilers’ right to do what they did, though we are all still waiting for verifiable and independant confirmation of how the events transpired.

Which, quite frankly, you have to know you’ll never get.  And let’s be honest here, you shouldn’t need it.  We know what Berry posted.  I think even the most dyed in the wool Berry-ite can admit it wasn’t appropriate considering his location, setting the symantics of blogging from the media room at all aside.  Hell, if he just said out loud what he posted he should have been kicked out… much less sprayed it all over the net for however many people to read.  And I would bet that if a blogger had posted something similar even in the Caps media room he’d either get booted or reprimanded by someone and then booted.

They didn’t taser him, mace him, handcuff him, bag his head and cord his hands before throwing him in a trunk, remove him by force… none of that.  Considering what he was posting I don’t really see how one could expect them to exactly spread rosepetals in front of him as he left, either.  Cold disapproval ain’t exactly waterboarding.  If anything, Berry’s account of the incident was tinged with enough emotion to make me think that if anything he overexaggerated the whole thing rather than downplayed it.  He was obviously feeling burned by the ordeal and that’s not likely to make a guy underplay what he feels happened, right?  Who knows.

“Traffic is something bloggers are accused of seeking in writing very shocking posts (though the same could be said of today’s article about speculation of a second NHL team in Toronto), and so I hesitated to mention my own post about the subject matter, and indeed it is the lone post I have seen on KK on the topic that is still without comments.”

I didn’t even want to get into that because now you’re talking about what motives certain guys may have for doing things… and that’s just way too subjective for me to view as a worthwhile discussion.  I tell you what, though… I bet it’ll cross the minds of NHL organizations as the ponder this issue. ‘Is this guy just here to pump up his own reputation and business in the short term with little regard for what our team is looking for?’  ‘Can we trust this guy to remain fair, even when he’s annoyed by something that happened on the ice, in the press room, or after the game?’ ‘Will he lash out at a percieved slight and create a situation we have to take time to address, or will he do his job and be insightful, informative, and a value-adder to the team?’

I don’t envy the amount of work bloggers in general are going to have to undertake and complete in order to make those questions have obvious and positive answers to the ones doing the asking.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 10/21/08 at 09:43 PM ET

Just as you could make assumptions based on those comments, assuming the intention of the comment, the nature of the individual, or the nature of bloggers in general, articles like today’s one about a second Toronto team could easily be enough reason to make a team think twice about MSM, and that’s far from the only example anyone could think of where MSM has published things that might not be desired by the League.

On Berry, I think we’ve reached the point where we both understand that we agree that what he did broke plenty of rules, regulations, understandings, and agreements, and that even the biggest MSM doing the same thing would give the organization complete justification for their reaction.

The three questions you finish with are interesting, because there is nothing about them that ties them to bloggers. MSM can do the same thing, use shocking articles to increase their own profile, they can have their own egos, and as Elliot Friedman explained in his take, even wind up in disagreements.

Bloggers of all stripes won’t ever disappear. We satisfy a demand, whether it be a personal one, or one that helps in much bigger ways (as bloggers have filled in the empty space in various teams’ press boxes when local media deemed hockey a non-starter). Like everything else the NHL comes across, we can be approached, a cordial relationship of any kind can occur, and the League can decide if they want to see how we might arrive at situations of mutual benefit.

Posted by SENShobo from Waterloo, ON on 10/21/08 at 10:33 PM ET