Wow, slow day in Pittsburgh eh? 

Maybe during the Olympic break they can write another article about how Draper didn’t like when Crosby was late to shake the Wings hands.

Posted by Heaton on 11/01/09 at 12:49 AM ET

Christ, you win the Stanley Cup and a month into the new season you’re at the top of the heap, looking down on all but one team and you’re STILL whining about something the assistant GM (no their GM, not their own, not their coach, not any of hteir players, but the ASSISTANT GM) said SIX F*CKING MONTHS AGO?!?!?!?

Get a life!

Enjoy your wins.  Stop being such babies!

Posted by Garth on 11/01/09 at 01:22 AM ET

Eat S**t, Rossi

Posted by Gunnar from Ada, Mi on 11/01/09 at 01:22 AM ET

It would be arrogant to assume what goes up never comes down.
It is stupid to presume the end of a dynasty when its key components are still in place.

Posted by ChrisinA^2 from the University of Michigan on 11/01/09 at 03:11 AM ET

Wow.  Pittsburgh still can’t just enjoy having won.

Posted by monkey from Waiting for the lambs to stop screaming on 11/01/09 at 06:09 AM ET

haha, i think you guys are missing the point, believe me, penguins are enjoying the fact that they won they cup!  but you guys whining all summer, and now making excuses about how sh!tty your team is, is just the icing on the cake!

Shocking though really after bringing in big Bert, May, even that invite to Cloutier that you’re not doing better.  You’d think with a captain like Nicole and the class Draper you’d be able to pull it out....

Posted by Greg on 11/01/09 at 07:45 AM ET

Hmm, let’s make huge generalizations about a team just a month into the season.  Someone needs to remind him where Pittsburgh was last year and what happened once they changed coaches.

Posted by hockeychic from Denver, CO on 11/01/09 at 09:46 AM ET

hahaha, all i hear is crying, you wings fans are the reason everyone loves it when the Wings lose.

Posted by Greg on 11/01/09 at 10:21 AM ET

Uh, Greg?  What whining all summer?

The Pittsburgh writers are taking things from before and right after the cup loss and continue to write stories about it.

If you want arrogance, it seems to me that the Penguins still crave that approval from the Wings and it kills them that they never got it.

Posted by Heaton on 11/01/09 at 10:42 AM ET

hahaha, all i hear is crying

Yeah, you’re right about that.  I mean, how else to describe something like the fans AND PROFESSIONAL SPORTS WRITERS of a Stanley Cup winning team STILL pissing and moaning about something said so long ago?

It’s interesting, Greg, how different your definition of “enjoying” is from most people’s.

Posted by Garth on 11/01/09 at 11:12 AM ET

Does anything come out of Pittsburgh not reeking of whining?

Pittsburgh (fans and personnel) seems to be more worried about how they are perceived instead of just enjoying the Cup.  They probably don’t like the fact that Detroit is still talked about as the best franchise and that Ovechkin seems to be getting even more pub this year even after Crosby and Malkin won the Cup.  Just enjoy the Cup and stop worrying about whether others are showing you what you perceive is the proper amount of respect.  If anyone knows the arrogant side of that line it is Pittsburgh, imo.

Posted by fan of neither team on 11/01/09 at 01:11 PM ET

If you guys actually read the article, he’s not complaining or whining about anything.  He is merely giving his reasoning for why the Red Wings dynasty may be over.  He’s doing what every newspaper writer does, takes a story at it’s earliest possible (and usually wrong) inception and runs with it.  He makes some valid points, but he also only references several dynasties out of many that have happened in sports. 

Also, completely unsure of how a Pittsburgh writer makes the entire sports side of Pittsburgh arrogant?  The only thing I heard of about talking about how they were perceived is answering questions about Handshake-Gate, which was brought up by the Wings…

Either way, tend to think that Rossi is a moron, but he also makes points which could be valid.  Take it as a compliment: when another city’s writers begin talking about the possible fall of your team, that usually means there is an immense amount of respect for the abilities of that team.  Nobody would write this story about any other team that is having a slow start in the league except the Wings.

Posted by Chris from PA on 11/02/09 at 09:13 AM ET

Just so you Wings fans know, Rob Rossi does not speak for ALL Penguin fans.  Not to mention he was just listing reasons why he believes the Red Wings dynasty is over.  Don’t assume that all Penguin fans feel that way.  I sure don’t.  There’s enough talented players on the Wings to turn the ship around.

Posted by Joe from PA on 11/02/09 at 11:15 AM ET

Not to mention he was just listing reasons why he believes the Red Wings dynasty is over

“What goes up must come down” is the only argument he uses; even then that’s a generic statement, not a fact based argument.

Posted by ChrisinA^2 from the University of Michigan on 11/02/09 at 11:57 AM ET

That’s the only argument he uses in the clip put up there.  He basically says injuries, age and other dynasties have ended the same way.  Read the entire article before assuming what the writer said is completely summed up in a few sentences.  Granted, though, Rossi is a bit of a moron.  If there’s a team the Penguins don’t want to see next summer if they were to make it to the playoffs, and then beyond, it would be the Red Wings.  Pens fans are lying if they say anything else.

Posted by Chris from PA on 11/02/09 at 02:48 PM ET

LMAO. Yes because Rob Rossi obviously represents an entire fanbase. /s

Chris from PA, I would much, much rather face the Red Wings than the Blackhawks this year. And we’ll see about the Sharks.

The fact of the matter is, we have the Wings figured out. Our team is faster, more tenacious, our goaltender is superior and infinitely more skilled, and our defense is actually more mobile and getting the puck out of the zone faster than any team in the league right now, with Alex Goligoski playing like a stud this year. He’s +12 with 11 points so far, including 5 goals.

No one’s scared of the Wings in Pittsburgh. And look at the standings. Since June 12th when we dethroned the Wings, and up to this point in the season so far, we are the Best Team in Hockey.

I’ll tell you this much about the Wings. The only way they can be a contender again is if they trade for a goaltender. Anyone who thinks Osgood can still win a Cup is in denial. With their injuries and the FAR more competitive conference that they’re playing in this year, it’s far from certain that Detroit will make the playoffs.

Most likely, the Blackhawks will win the Central and the Wings will start the playoffs on the road, likely as a 6th, 7th, or maybe even an 8th seed. No one who follows the NHL closely and isn’t a biased douchebag would be surprised if the Wings take a huge step back this season and actually miss the playoffs. It’s a stretch, but it’s a definite possibility.

The Chief is a joke.

Posted by LGP8771 on 11/02/09 at 06:54 PM ET

I read the whole article, and I’ll stick by what I said.  What goes up must come down is a generic statement completely lacking in substance, not a credible argument.  Other dynasties ended because key players got old or moved on and the replacements were inadequate.  The Wings already went thought this 4 years ago with Yzerman, Shanahan, Chelios, Schneider, etc.  Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kronwall, Franzen, Filppula, Rafalski, etc filled in and the dynasty continued.  Rafalski is the only one in that group of new players whose age might be an issue and none of the wings’ veteran players are a problem right now.  So no, I don’t buy into the premise of the article because he doesn’t support it with anything more than erroneous generalization and wishful thinking.

Anyone who thinks Osgood can still win a Cup is in denial.

Career Playoff Stats: 2.09 GAA .916%SV
2009 Playoffs: 1.55 GAA .930%
2010 Playoffs: 2.01GAA .926%

Ozzie is the best playoff goalie in the NHL until he or anyone else proves otherwise.  His regular season play last year was much worse than it has been to this point on the season and we all know how well he turned it around in last year’s playoffs.

Posted by ChrisinA^2 from the University of Michigan on 11/02/09 at 08:59 PM ET

@ChrisinA^2: “Ozzie is the best playoff goalie in the NHL until he or anyone else proves otherwise.”

Fleury was easily the best goalie in last year’s playoffs and Stanley Cup Finals, so you’re on crack, obviously. It’s so pathetic how biased some Red Wings fans are, and you’re clearly one of those people.

Ozzie will be on the bench come playoff time because Holland will trade for a goalie. He won’t get a #1 guy though unless he pulls a rabbit out of a hat, and I just can’t see any team out there just giving up a really quality backup good enough to win in the playoffs.

The Blackhawks will win the Central. Once they get Hossa back, they’ll be on a roll. Wings fans can continue to be in denial - it’ll just make this season that much sweeter for the rest of us.

Posted by LGP8771 on 11/03/09 at 12:07 AM ET

Fleury was easily the best goalie in last year’s playoffs and Stanley Cup Finals,

Ozzie will be on the bench come playoff time because Holland will trade for a goalie.

I’m the biased crack addicted fan in wishful denial?  If Holland was going to get rid of Osgood, it would have happened during the regular season last year when he had the worst save percentage of any goalie and gave up at least 3 goals every single game.  Conklin had respectable number but didn’t get the start and didn’t get resigned.  Holland proved he knows more about hockey that just about everyone else on the planet and Osgood was spectacular in the playoffs.

No, I don’t buy that Fleury outplayed Osgood last year.  Fleury played like Ozzie in the 98 playoffs.  He saved the Pens asses in a couple of key games (against Phili and games 6 and 7 of the cup finals) and he was good enough to get the win when his team dominated.  Last year from the WCF onwards Ozzie bailed the wings out on a nightly basis when half their roster was an injured scratch.  That’s what I saw and the numbers support this.

Osgood: 2.01GAA .926%
Fleury: 2.61GAA .908%

Posted by ChrisinA^2 from the University of Michigan on 11/03/09 at 01:05 AM ET

@ChristinA^2 - Osgood had to deal with what, the Columbus Blue Jackets, the Anaheim Ducks and the injured Chicago Blackhawks? Please. Compare that to the offense of the Philadelphia Flyers, Alex Ovechkin and the Washington Capitals, and the Carolina Hurricanes, who despite being swept had a pretty good offense going in the playoffs.

If Osgood and the Wings had to face high scoring teams with superstars like Ovechkin in the playoffs, you can pretty much bet your ass that Osgood wouldn’t have had those numbers.

And he outplayed Osgood head to head, giving up only 2 goals in the final 2 games to Henrik Zetterberg, Pavel Datsyuk, Marian Hossa, Nick Lidstrom, etc. etc. in the Stanley Cup Finals.

If you take out Game 5 when the Penguins’ lack of discipline and poor penalty killing hung Fleury out to dry, Fleury’s numbers would easily be better than Osgood’s in the Finals. But numbers don’t tell the whole story. Fleury came up huge at the end and made key saves at the right time in the series. All the analysts mentioned how Fleury outplayed Osgood in the Finals, and if you can’t see that, then I suggest you go back and watch again. Although of course, if you’re like The Chief, you can’t go back and watch and you probably didn’t see Crosby raise the Cup either because you just can’t stand the fact that the Wings, and their goalie, were outplayed in the biggest stage in hockey.

Also, if you think that Holland didn’t make any phone calls to try to trade for a goalie last year at some point, then you’re nuts. It was easily the biggest weakness the Red Wings had. Problem is, no one out there was willling to give the Red Wings an experienced goalie who could take over in the playoffs, much less a #1 goalie, so he had to stand pat with Osgood and Conklin. If Osgood had outplayed Fleury, the Wings would have won the Cup. To me that was the biggest difference (plus the Pens wanted it more). And BTW, Staal and Kennedy’s goals in Game 6 were not that great. He could have stopped both of them.

Just because Osgood’s played well in the playoffs before doesn’t mean he’ll do that again. He is on the tail end of his career and is giving up some really embarrasing goals every other game. Holland would be pretty stupid and stubborn if he wasn’t thinking about a Plan B in net.

Posted by LGP8771 on 11/03/09 at 01:38 AM ET

Its pretty obvious that you’re making shit up as you go along, so here are the facts:

Compare that to the offense of the Philadelphia Flyers, Alex Ovechkin and the Washington Capitals, and the Carolina Hurricanes, who despite being swept had a pretty good offense going in the playoffs.

I’ll ignore the cupcake teams (Carolina and Columbus) that took in up the ass in a sweeps

Getzlaf is a monster who was on an insane tear and had better production per game than Crosby.  Perry (although a douche), Selanne, and Ryan are all excellent forwards.

Who was injured on Chicago?: Toews, Kane, Versteeg, Havlat, Sharp, Byfuglien where all healthy.  That’s at least as much offensive talent as Phildelphia had, and that’s being generous to Phili.

If Osgood and the Wings had to face high scoring teams with superstars like Ovechkin in the playoffs, you can pretty much bet your ass that Osgood wouldn’t have had those numbers

.

Even using the dubious method of ignoring his worst series (Washington), Fleury’s GAA is 2.47 (I can’t do anything about the save percentage). 

All the analysts mentioned how Fleury outplayed Osgood in the Finals,

Pierre McGuire is a douchecanoe, not an analyst.

If you take out Game 5 when the Penguins’ lack of discipline and poor penalty killing hung Fleury out to dry,

Guess what, if I remove the games where the other team scored a lot on the wings, Osgoods numbers go down too.  Who would have thought.

But numbers don’t tell the whole story. Fleury came up huge at the end and made key saves at the right time in the series

That’s what I said, Ozzie from 98.  I didn’t see Fleury carry his team through the playoffs, I saw a guy that did his job and occasionally saved the day.  That’s the makeup of a cup winning goalie.  That doesn’t mean he was better than Osgood, who had to carry his team on his back for parts of the playoff series.

Also, if you think that Holland didn’t make any phone calls to try to trade for a goalie last year at some point, then you’re nuts

Holland likes cheap veteran goalies that perform in the playoffs.  Mike Vernon was exactly the same way in 97 as Osgood was in 09.  He was hated by the fans during a disaster regular season, but Holland knows more about hockey.  If Holland didn’t have confidence in Osgood, he would have traded him after his playoff performance, just like he did with Vernon.

And he outplayed Osgood head to head, giving up only 2 goals in the final 2 games to Henrik Zetterberg, Pavel Datsyuk, Marian Hossa, Nick Lidstrom, etc. etc. in the Stanley Cup Finals.

Only one of those guys wasn’t playing with a serious injury and by some vast coincidence he had the most points out of the three.  Hell, Datsyuk only played for 3 games in the SCF.  On account of Osgoods SCF stats, I’d say Ozzie did most of the outplaying.

If Osgood had outplayed Fleury…

The Pens flat out outplayed the wings as a team in 5 of the 7 games, that doesn’t sound like a series where goaltending was the deciding factor.

Thanks for playing, I’m done here

Posted by ChrisinA^2 from the University of Michigan on 11/03/09 at 02:41 AM ET

@ChristinA^2 - Who the hell is talking about Pierre McGuire?! Are you insane? The consensus throughout the hockey world was that Fleury was the better goaltender.

I’m not gonna continue to waste my time with you, because you’re obviously as biased as they come. The only Wings player who had a significant injury was Pavel Datsyuk, and by Game 6 he had no excuse anymore. His skating was just fine and he looked pretty good out there.

But of course, injuries are for losers and teams (and fans) in denial. You think the Penguins didn’t play with injuries? Crosby was dealing with a groin injury for most of the playoffs. Gonchar was basically playing on one leg the rest of the playoffs after the hit by Ovechkin. Everyone was banged up.

Osgood had the better numbers. Getzlaf was doing pretty well, but the fact that you basically compared him with Alex Ovechkin shows just how badly you’re grasping at straws here. That’s a big, fat fail on your part. Washington scored

Plus, everyone knows that the East is much more open.

Regardless, the Penguins did indeed outplay the Wings in 5 of the 7 games. But Fleury made key saves and saved the Pens on a number of different occasions throughout the series. Osgood did not do that for Detroit. Numbers mean nothing here - Patrick Roy didn’t have the best numbers either, but he made huge saves when he had to.

And as I said, most sane people who watched that series would tell you that Fleury was the better goalie. He had 2 monster playoff performances in consecutive seasons, was a huge reason we made it to the Finals the year before, and a huge reason why we came out on top this past spring. On top of that, right now he is outplaying Luongo and Brodeur and if he keeps it up, he might even start for Team Canada in February.

Posted by LGP8771 on 11/03/09 at 03:29 AM ET