It’s not marketing, and it’s not the economy. It’s that hockey is, always has been, and always will be the 4th most popular sport in Detroit. And unlike the environment during the glory years for the Wings, two of the three other teams in Detroit are very good right now.

Couple that with the Wings’ early playoff exits, the clear decline the team is in, and the lack of recognizable names left on the team, and there’s no wonder that people aren’t buying tickets.

Your second line has winners like Dan Cleary and Mikael Samuelsson, and you wonder why people aren’t buying tickets?

This town is sports CRAZY.  Each and every team gets its day in the sun, depending on the day of the week, whether it’s the Wings, Lions, Tigers, Pistons, Wolverines, Spartans, yes, the Shock, too...Detroit is a town that lives and breathes sports. 

As far as the on-ice product is concerned, the post-02 team stats are as follows: 48 wins, 48 wins, 58 wins, 52 wins.  That’s not deep decline. 

As far as recognition is concerned, despite the Wings’ PR department’s dogged attempts to make their players two-dimensional, over the last two seasons, when you go to games, you can see that the names on Wings fans’ backs have shifted from #19, #14, and some #91 hold-overs to #40, #13, #24, #33, and the occasional #5, even in these hard economic times.  Wings merch, as a whole, is still one of the NHL’s leaders in overall sales. 

The honest truth of the matter, dear Thomas, is that the State of Michigan lost over 170,000 jobs from 2002-2007 (not including 2007 itself), and the staggering losses continue.  It’s hard to pay for sports tickets, regardless of the team, when your options include paying $250+ to bring your family to a game or not being sure whether you can pay the mortagage or your grocery bills. 

Certainly, competition from the Pistons and Tigers led to empty seats, but they did so because the Red Wings’ ticket prices and payment options remain stagnant--and inflexible as hell, where you had to pay for big chunks of the season in advance, including full-price exhibition games (and let’s not forget that “convenience fees” and huge upcharges in parking were added on recently), the team’s game presentation hasn’t changed in ten years, there’s no real access to the team. 

That’s why the Wings are even pretending to give a damn--they have to compete for fans’ bucks more than they have in a long time, and the honest truth is that the Wings’ bang-for-your-ticket-buck experience, at $50 for an upper-bowl seat, is great in terms of the on-ice product, but it’s been consistently mediocre in terms of the game presentation...So what did fans do to a monolithic organization that has no forum by which fans can give feedback and/or constructive criticism to an inaccessable team whose management seems to resent its fans?

They stayed away, and it wasn’t until the playoffs, when those ugly empty seats were seen by the national media (the local media’s comments were ignored), that the team actually decided it needed to change.

We’re actually not paying full price for exhibition games anymore, and the seat-filler seats are at least being offered.  The Wings have miles to go in terms of fan friendliness, but they’ve started to adapt.

They still have a long way to go, and it’s bloody obvious that there is no season-ticket waiting list, but the reasons there are less butts than seats have much, much more to do with crap economic times, organizational arrogance, and an unwillingness to recognize competition or acknowledge fans’ concerns than anything else, including somebody’s contrarian conspiracy theory.

OK, somebody please explain something to me: Why is it OK for the Wings fans to make excuses for their team’s flagging sales, but it’s not OK for fans of a southern team to do the same thing?

Just curious.

Because we are struggling to SELL OUT every seat meaning that our attendece stay at or around the 18,000-19,000 mark not 12,000 in Nashville’s case. There also is a big difference in merchandise sales. Despite Detroit not selling out every game, the team still remains a leader in sales and total revenue. So the tickets sales in Detroit really is a minor issue that is more embarrassing than anything else.

Sorry, excuse not accepted. Please try your explanation again later.

Also this is the first time in YEARS that we have had trouble selling out. Teams in the South struggle every year. That may not be the case for every team every year but the fan support is just not as abundant in the South as it is in the North. The fans may be just as hardcore and passionate I am not saying that but, there just aren’t as many.

I don’t think I was clear: I refuse to accept that excuse. Period. Attendance issues are attendance issues. I don’t care if the team is in Detroit or Decatur--If it’s not OK for southern teams’ fans to justify their teams’ inability to sell out every game, have top ratings for playoff-watching, and so forth...then it’s not OK for Yanqui teams’ fans to do the same thing.

Period.

As far as the on-ice product is concerned, the post-02 team stats are as follows: 48 wins, 48 wins, 58 wins, 52 wins.  That’s not deep decline.

Flawed logic. The Wings’ win totals, as you well know, are misleading. Yes, I read How To Lie With Statistics just like you did.

The division in which the Wings compete has declined drastically since the days when St Louis had the longest playoff streak in all of pro sports, when Chicago was actually a pretty good team most years, and Nashville was competitive.

The rest of the division declined, and the Wings are in decline now as well. Poor cap management, piss poor drafting (don’t even bother - I spent years conducting the most exhaustive study of the NHL Draft that anyone has ever done, and citing your three exceptions is not going to counteract the nearly two decades of draft futility that the Wings have exhibited), and the parity that came from the implementation of the cap have wreaked havoc on the team.

The Wings are not anywhere near the team they once were. They went from being able to roll four quality lines to having only one NHL-caliber scoring line and a bunch of journeyman pluggers. If they were in any other division in hockey, they would have been a bubble playoff team the past two years.

The honest truth of the matter, dear Thomas, is that the State of Michigan lost over 170,000 jobs from 2002-2007 (not including 2007 itself), and the staggering losses continue.  It’s hard to pay for sports tickets, regardless of the team, when your options include paying $250+ to bring your family to a game or not being sure whether you can pay the mortagage or your grocery bills.

That is pure horseshit.

The people that drove the Wings’ ticket sales during the glory years weren’t the timecard punchers from the plants. Those people were priced out of hockey long before the Wings ever began their ascent.

No, the people who drove the Wings’ ticket and merchandise sales were the hockey moms living in the far suburbs. The people who plunked down $60k each for matching his and hers Yukons and Navigators.

Those people still have that money. They weren’t working in the auto industry (even those that were indirectly employed in the auto industry weren’t working for one of the Big Three).

Go to Great Lakes Crossing sometime, or that mall just outside Wixom and tell me what you see in the parking lot. They sure as hell aren’t driving 1987 Escorts. It’s still a parking lot full of oversized $60k+ SUVs.

The economy is just an excuse that Wings fans use to explain away the fact that the Wings are no longer popular.

As I have said before, it’s that the Pistons and Tigers are good now. For all your bluster about people not being able to afford Wings tickets, the Pistons and Tigers don’t seem to have any problem filling their buildings night in and night out. Wings tickets may be slightly higher, but that’s not why people are staying away.

If the product on the ice were as good as it was, if the stars were still there, if it were still “cool” to be a Wings fan, the building would still be full.

It’s not, it’s not, it’s not and it’s not.

Also this is the first time in YEARS that we have had trouble selling out. Teams in the South struggle every year.

Tell that to Tampa.

I spent years conducting the most exhaustive study of the NHL Draft that anyone has ever done.

Any chance we’ll get a look at that Thom?

The fact is the redwings have more fans nation wide then any other hockey team places that dont sell out during the reg season always seem too when the red wings are in town plus look at the colorado game 3 and 4 how many red wings fans where there and being from michigan and a hard working brick layer who loves hockey the economic position we are in IS what has stopped me from going to a game if i could go i would but have to pay the bills first and i know there are a lot of other people in my shoes in michigan if you ever go to a wings game at the joe look around and you’ll see a lot of everyday people that really cant afford to be there but are because we ARE HOCKEYTOWN