Mike, I actually pondered a similar question in a piece on my site today:

http://puckthemedia.wordpress.com/2008/12/31/what-exactly-is-the-future-of-the-winter-classic/

I actually thought Candlestick Park would be awesome.

Posted by Steve from New Jersey on 12/31/08 at 01:43 PM ET

You had be going until the end of the article when you stated two things. 1.) California has no national appeal....WRONG...California team do have appeal and would have a heck of a lot more appeal if the NHL and NBC TV didn’t just ignore them. NBC thinks their are just 6 teams in the NHL Pittsburg, The Rangers, Detroit, Philadelphia, Buffalo and Washington. Notice the prox of all of them to New York and NBC’s offices? Next notice that NBC almost always ignores the South and the West when broadcasting or promoting games. Here’s a question for you Mike When’s the last time the NHL or NBC for that matter actually promoted a game on the West Coast, or in NBC’s case when’s the last time NBC did an actual live NHL broadcast from a California City? See Mike the problem is that most casual NHL observers never get to see or hear anything about West Coast Hockey and therefore you create a bias of the West Coast.

But then you go way out their with in your last paragraph, and this too me lose all credibility your article might have. Yes while the NHL does everything it can to promote Crosby, and NBC cannot do a broadcast without mentioning his name at least once every 5 seconds, why not have a game featuring NBC’s favorite hockey players team the Penguins vs the Sharks? But no you try to go out their and make it sound like the Sharks have no marketable players and no marque names. Hmmm funny thing is if Joe Thornton was still in Boston he would be featured on almost commerical done on versus or NBC instead of being ignored. Least we forget players like Dan Boyle (leading D scorer {at this time} in the NHL) and getting no all star respect, or Nabakov the most ignored goalie in the NHL a player who deserved the Veniza last season but didn’t get it because he plays in California.

Mike its time for you the NHL and NBC to get over it. The NHL is here to stay in California and here in the land of the Sharks. Unlike some teams we sellout our games.

Posted by GivetheWCsomeCredit on 12/31/08 at 02:19 PM ET

I’m sorry but Cali is not going to work. First of all what are the TV ratings in LA or San Jose? You may have 18,000 in the building every night but how many more of you are there? The Anaheim/Ottawa Finals were a TV disaster. If anyone in California even wanted to watch it they were probably at work at 8PM Eastern time. I’d guess San Jose’s appeal is only slightly greater...As a hockey fan be thankful you have what you have out there and don’t get greedy...I mean Wayne Gretzky’s own son did not play hockey as a kid in LA because he said nobody out there played it. That says it all as far as I’m concerned. Ray Bourque’s kid raised in Boston is in the NHL right now....

Posted by kevin from boston on 12/31/08 at 03:53 PM ET

Kevin, You bring up a valid point, but re-read or reunderstand my point. Ratings in LA are low even for the Dodger and Angels, but that beside the reason the ratings are so low is because lack of PROMOTING THE GAME in CALIFORNIA. When is the last time the NHL acutally promoted the game in California. You don’t promote the game in California by showing two teams that really no one in California really cares about. When you look at the NBC NHL Schedule who do you see play ever week? One of six teams, its either the Rangers, the Bruins, The Penguins, The Red Wings, The Caps or the Flyers. Exactly how is that PROMOTING THE game on the WEST COAST? Your promote the game by showing local teams, and promoting locals teams players. I mean I know of Marco Sturm, Marc Savvard, Milan Lucic, Phil Kessell, Michael Ryder, Blake Wheeler (poss rookie of the year) Zdeno Chara, Tim Thomas and Manny Fernandez. Heck I could probably name every player on the Bruins roster, and probably on most teams in the East just from watching them play so much on TV, and the NHL promoting them. Yet how many players can you name on the Sharks without looking it up.

Additionally consider this we play your Bruins in Feb on the 10th. And yet Versus won’t even bring this game, and you’ll hear nothing about this game in any NHL commericals or advertising yet these are the leagues two best teams (point wise) so far this season. This is because Bettman and the NHL do a poor job of Promoting the leagues 30 teams. Yes there are 30 teams, but according to NBC and the Versus there appears to be only 6-10 at least according to there broadcast schedule. The Winter Classic should be about promoting all the leagues teams and great players not just a few. This is a great opportunity that the NHL is missing out on.

Posted by Its called Promoting the game on 12/31/08 at 04:18 PM ET

The sport is certainly growing in California. The number of California-drafted and scouted players is on the upswing and considering the amount of kids that play hockey in the LA and San Jose markets, it’s just a matter of time before there’s a homegrown star player.

But it’s still a niche here. A growing niche, to be sure, but a niche. When Joe Thornton was traded here, Mark Purdy of the Mercury News noted that the deal was the equivalent of the Giants signing Bonds in terms of pure talent but because it was the Sharks, it would only have a certain amount of appeal in the local media.

To the growing Sharks fan base, Thornton, Nabokov, and Marleau are superstars. To the local media, they’re more often just notable names but Joe Public probably knows Tim Lincecum more than Patty Marleau. It’s just one of those things that takes time to grow. The good news is that the Sharks TV ratings are the highest they’ve ever been and the overall appeal of the team is better than it’s ever been.

To really establish a tradition, you need 3-4 generations of fans to grow up with the team and have the game shared as a family. We’re just starting to get the cusp of that here in the Bay Area. It’s closing in on 20 years and while the Sharks aren’t as popular as the Giants or the A’s, they’re definitely growing. And it’s different now that the team is winning. I’ve been approached by more random people in different places when I’m wearing my jersey after a game than I have probably in the past ten years. The in-house leagues are maxing out their ice time and the Junior Sharks have made a dent in national competition.

But to say that the national appeal is solely based on how much NBC promotes a certain team? I’m sorry, but that’s failing to understand the big picture.

NBC and the NHL put a ton of money into all sorts of market research to establish which teams are popular and will draw in ratings and buzz. At its best, there’s a synergy between the team/player and the league, where organically grown buzz can push the league to market a player, thus generating more buzz.  That’s the point about players, anyway. For teams, it’s different. The way hockey works nationally, ratings numbers spike in NHL markets, but the percentage of the spike varies from market to market. Compare the Boston Bruins numbers when they’re in the playoffs versus the Sharks or Ducks and you’ll see that Boston-area homes are more likely to tune in.

If you’re basing it solely on numbers, you want a team that has some national appeal and can really max out a regional number. Pittsburgh and Buffalo were a perfect example of this. Pittsburgh’s national numbers were far beyond most teams and Buffalo’s local numbers are some of the strongest in the league. Add in marketable players like Crosby and Miller, along with the snowy upstate New York weather and it’s the perfect formula.

So #2, while I appreciate your passion and enthusiasm, I think you’re looking at it from the wrong perspective. #3, I think there are more hockey fans and players out here than you realize, but you’re right in that it’s still not a “natural” sport and Cali will need at least another decade of grassroots growing before it can move from niche sport to local staple. Right now, I’d say the Sharks are somewhere in between.

Posted by Mike Chen on 12/31/08 at 04:30 PM ET

when’s the last time NBC did an actual live NHL broadcast from a California City?

Jeez, was it really Game 2 of the 2007 cup finals?  Sheesh.

I mean Wayne Gretzky’s own son did not play hockey as a kid in LA because he said nobody out there played it. That says it all as far as I’m concerned. Ray Bourque’s kid raised in Boston is in the NHL right now....

I’m glad you were at least scientific about your reasons.  Nice use of the smallest sample size possible.

Posted by Earl Sleek from Anaheim, CA on 12/31/08 at 04:32 PM ET

And #2, following up on your second comment, I do agree that the league doesn’t know how to market all 30 teams. Unfortunately, it’s up to the local markets, and it’s kind of like this catch-22 where you need the local media to get buzz but the local media won’t create buzz until there’s already buzz. Again, the Bay Area is growing and the Sharks are lucky to finally be breaking that glass ceiling.

Put it this way...ten years ago, how many Bay Area sports fans knew who Vincent Damphousse was? Compared to now where they probably know who Joe Thornton is even though they don’t follow the sport closely. But again, most marketing is done on a local level, so while you may see Thornton in flashes on a national spot, he’s not going to have the impact he deserves to.

Posted by Mike Chen on 12/31/08 at 04:33 PM ET

A Winter Classic in the Sierra would be awesome. 

I mean, if Chrissy and the Ducks weren’t invited, it would be awesome.

Posted by mudshark from Divetown, Colorado on 12/31/08 at 04:53 PM ET

I mean, if Chrissy and the Ducks weren’t invited, it would be awesome.

By the time there’s a Winter Classic in California, I highly doubt that Chris Pronger will be on Anaheim’s roster.  But sure, invite the Kings.  I’m still a fan of hockey played indoors anyways.

Posted by Earl Sleek from Anaheim, CA on 12/31/08 at 04:59 PM ET

Mike I agree and disagree with you somewhat But I don’t think you got my overall point.

First off this past season a local born and raised player by the name of Viktor Tikhonov was drafted in the first round and currently plays for the Phoenix Coyotes in the NHL.

As far as your TV thoughts are I agree with you that it is about ratings. But how can you compare national ratings in the West with those in the East when the product is never even shown on the National Media out here. Your talking about local ratings vs national ratings. When you talking about a team that has a “national appeal” how can you make the determination that its not the Sharks, the Kings, the Ducks, the Canucks, the Flames, The Oilers, The Coyotes or the Stars or the Avalanche? When they are hardly if EVER even shown on a national basis?

When the NHL and NBC did their marketing research did they ask hockey fans on the west coast, or who did they ask. I have been a hockey fan for 35 years and have never one time been asked by any television station as to what team I wanted to watch nationally. Yet for years my family and myself where part of the Nielsen TV ratings group. We had the box on our TV for years, and then carried a little clip on device with us for years too, so I guess we did have some influence.

As for the populailty of teams and players. Anyone that understands the media today knows that TV sells. Players that appear in commericals and who are shown on TV are naturally going to be more popular then those not shown on TV.  Of course if you show Sidney Crosby and talk about Sidney Crosby ever 5 minutes then of course everyone is going to know his name. But put Crosby on say the LA Kings and dont give him any national press, don’t promote him nationally would he still be as popular with fans? See the point is players and teams are as popular as the media wants to make them. Put Joe Thornton on the Bruins and see how popular he is, but put in on the Sharks and then see.

Or another way too look at just look at the awards given out at the end of each season and you’ll see what I mean about a media bias towards certain teams and players. A player doesn’t even have to be the best at his position anymore to win an award instead sometimes they win the award based upon media preceptions or better based upon knowing the players name because the media mentions the name alot. As someone once said if you want to be popular get your name out in the media.

It’s not a natural sport in California because the NHL and the Media doesn’t go out of there way to promote it as such. Just look at stupid sports such as snowboarding no one outside of a few diehards even heard of this sport before it appeared in the Oylmpics and then the MEDIA ran with it and now its become a big sport in a few years. WHY because it was PROMOTED by the media.

Here’s a guess Mike that if NBC and the Local TV Stations in California would do as much promotion on hockey as they did snow boarding that hockey would take off big time in California. And this was my reason for stating what I did. Bettman has done a very poor job of trying to promote the NHL west of St. Louis, a poor job.

Posted by I disagree on 12/31/08 at 05:01 PM ET

My comment was or should have been when is the last time (outside of a playoff game) has NBC ever broadcast a live nhl game from a West Coast City?

Posted by Earl you not a pearl on 12/31/08 at 05:03 PM ET

My comment was or should have been when is the last time (outside of a playoff game) has NBC ever broadcast a live nhl game from a West Coast City?

I mean, I don’t even think that my answer was correct, was it?  If it has been more than a year, then really I don’t know why we have to even put fine print around the question.

Posted by Earl Sleek from Anaheim, CA on 12/31/08 at 05:14 PM ET

Earl you are correct it has been over a year, and don’t expect any changes this year either. I already looked at the NHL on NBC projected games this year and each week you’ll see a game involving one of these six teams
1. Penguins
2. Flyers
3. Rangers
4. Bruins
5. Red Wings
6. BlackHawks

Don’t Expect any game broadcast from the West Coast. You might see the Sharks play one time if lucky. But forget watching the Sharks -Anaheim games on NBC. Don’t expect to see Vancouver (Sundin, The Twins, Luongo) on NBC either, nor will you see Calgary, or Edmonton either. You might see Dallas once, and Phoenix once, but not Colorado. Great NATIONAL coverage by NBC and NHL to promote the game of Hockey Everywhere.

Posted by Your correct on 12/31/08 at 05:28 PM ET

The rumour that I heard was that 2011 may be a double-header Winter Classic.

As for doing it in warm weather, its VERY possible as the Kings played the Rangers in 1991 outdoors in Vegas… with the ice technology they have now I think they could put up a much better rink outdoors in warm weather. Last year in Buffalo there were ice problems, but they were rushed big time. I think they’ve probably had 2.5-3 times as many days to build the rink this year as compared to last year, and even in the warmer weather, the ice should be fantastic tomorrow.

Posted by bcrt on 12/31/08 at 07:13 PM ET

To the guy who keeps using dumb names…
Since when is it NBC’s job to promote the game? NBC shows the teams you keep mentioning because they have a following, because they have good TV ratings. NBC is a business, they are in it to make money, and to make money, they have to have viewers. Why would they waste TV time on a Kings game when they can show a Pens Flyers game or a Habs Bruins game or Hawks Wings? Its not NBCs job to create a market for other teams, its their job to take advantage of the markets that already exist.

But back to Mikes original article, I think it would be a pretty cool. I’d personally love to watch a Sharks vs someone in Northern Cali.

Posted by Kevin from Pittsburgh on 12/31/08 at 07:35 PM ET

There’s an outdoor rink at the Irvine Spectrum during the Holiday Season in Orange County.. sounds about as good as the rinks in the Bay Area you described. So if it could happen in San Jose it could probably happen in Anaheim too.

Also about the NBC broadcasts… yes, they don’t promote the teams from the Western half of the US, but more than that, the games are on at like 9 AM here. It’s ridiculous, no NFL games are played until at EARLIEST, 10 AM, with many also taking place at 1 PM and 5 PM. But a hockey game broadcast after 10 AM is only going to happen with the Winter Classic. The games need to be on at a decent hour, and as you all have said, promoted beforehand.

Posted by brokenyard from Orange County on 01/01/09 at 04:47 PM ET