On the Forecheck
Next entry: ESPN, why?
Previous entry: Peterson vs. Parkinson's a courageous battle
Are the Predators tough enough?
by Forechecker on 11/19/08 at 12:20 PM ET
Comments (1)
The question making its way around the Nashville Predators fan base these days, in light of Monday’s fight-filled 4-1 loss to San Jose, is one that has dogged them for a couple years now.
Are the Preds tough enough?
While no one doubts that Shea Weber can play a physical game on the blueline, and Jordin Tootoo will throw punches with anyone in the league, some say that the bulk of this team shows little inclination for rough play, and Nick Tarnasky, acquired to fill Darcy Hordichuk’s role this season, has failed to impress with either his hockey skills or fighting ability so far. The critics cite, for example, how some of the Sharks came up to defend their captain Patrick Marleau when Dan Hamhuis nailed him into the boards Monday night.
Earlier in the game, Ryan Jones was ridden into the glass in similar fashion by Marleau, with no such retaliation by his fellow Predators. Sure, tempers boiled over late in the game as the 3rd period turned into “MMA On Ice”, but if Nashville stood up earlier on, would that have even been necessary?
Now in my mind, toughness falls into a couple different categories in the NHL. First, there’s the aspect of physical intimidation, which Anaheim famously rode to a Stanley Cup in 2007. It consists of a combination of size and brute strength that, at its best, forces opponents to adjust their style of play before a hit even has to be made. The typical fan of that kind of hockey can perhaps best be summed up as follows:
That approach certainly has its merits; as Don Cherry loves to point out, nobody heads to the concession stand or changes the channel when a fight breaks out, and few things are more satisfying than to see your guy pound the stuffing out of their guy on home ice. The other side of the toughness coin, however, the “take the hit and keep on playing” side, is to me the hallmark of hockey tradition. Take this example, from Joe Pelletier’s portrait of Hall of Famer Eddie Shore:
...when he played for the Melville Millionaires against Winnipeg in a championship game, his coach told him to not take a penalty no matter what happened. Shore was targeted for the entire game and lost six teeth, suffered a broken nose and a broken jaw and got knocked out a couple of times. After having played a full 50 minutes he was knocked out a third time and was helped off the ice unconscious. He never did draw a penalty…
I’d contend that while the Predators don’t intimidate, they’ve got toughness more than covered.
As to why the Preds lack when it comes to intimidation, that comes from the top all the way down; to hear GM David Poile talk about the qualities that he looks to bring into the organization, it’s always speed, skill and size, but the size component always seems to mean “big enough to play through rough stuff”, rather than “make opposing forwards quail at the thought of bumping our stars.”
When an enforcer is part of the lineup, it’s clear that Barry Trotz has guidelines as to when and where they throw their knuckles. Darcy Hordichuk in the last few seasons, and now Nick Tarnasky, don’t dress regularly, and even then they play only a few minutes a night. For an opponent, it’s easy to just send a 4th line out against them, and you never have to worry about your star players getting ruffled.
In today’s NHL, frankly, I think this is the right approach; there are only a handful of tough guys out there who can skate well enough to take a regular shift without getting taken advantage of. And it’s not like Trotz totally eschews having his players initiate the action. San Jose opened the scoring Monday night on a power play that resulted from a Jordin Tootoo charge, and Joe Thornton, in an obvious attempt to get under Tootoo’s skin, said afterwards that Tootoo basically won the game for the Sharks with that penalty. Trotz, however, stood by his agitator, saying “Jordin has to play with an edge.”
One measure of that willingness to “take a licking and keep on ticking” is the Penalty Plus/Minus rating. Ryan Jones and Vern Fiddler are among the NHL leaders in that regard, more through yeoman-like hard work than any dazzling display of speed and shiftiness. Jones in particular seems to fight through a dizzying array of elbows and sticks on his way to the dangerous scoring areas, and yet does an admirable job maintaining his focus and draws a number of calls as a result.
When it comes to toughness and its role in NHL success, perhaps Detroit assistant general manager Jim Nill summed it up best:
“Toughness isn’t fighting. To me, toughness is whether a guy will go into the corner knowing he’s going to get hit and still come out with the puck. It’s going to the dirty areas of the ice and paying the price to score a goal.”
In my opinion, these Predators live up to that standard. Jason Arnott’s tumble into the net Monday night, for example, came because time was ticking down on the 1st period, and with the team down by two goals, the Preds captain drove hard to the net because that was the best chance to score before the clock expired. He was lucky to avoid serious injury that time, but that doesn’t take away from the determination that was behind the play. When it comes to the question of whether or not this team will make the playoffs, or enjoy some success upon getting there, team toughness is the least of my worries.
But the rest of the Predators fan base? I’m not so sure they’d agree…
Two excellent articles on the role of the enforcer in the modern NHL can be found at Five Hole Fanatics and James Mirtle’s old digs.
Filed in: Nashville Predators | On the Forecheck | Permalink
Tags: Barry+Trotz, David+Poile, Jason+Arnott, Jordin+Tootoo, Nick+Tarnasky, Ryan+Jones, Vern+Fiddler,
Comments
Add a Comment
Please limit embedded image or media size to 575 pixels wide.
Add your own avatar by joining Kukla's Korner, or logging in and uploading one in your member control panel.
Captchas bug you? Join KK or log in and you won't have to bother.
Most Recent Blog Posts
What to make of the wild, wild Western Conference?
Preds place Peverley on waivers
What Sundin could mean for Vancouver
About On the Forecheck
Dirk Hoag is the Forechecker, churner of NHL stats and analysis. Having started over 10 years ago writing for websites like In the Crease and e-Sports, Dirk launched On The Forecheck in 2005 to cover the Nashville Predators as well as apply statistical analysis to NHL hockey.
Email:
Catch Sully's Comeback
Steve Sullivan plans to play in Saturday's home game against the Chicago Blackhawks. For discounted Nashville Predators tickets, including steeply discounted Ticketmaster fees, take advantage of this special offer, and use the code word predators at checkout.
I answered the question “no”, but for the same reasons you listed above. I don’t think fighting determines toughness, but the ability to throw bodies around effectively seems to elude all but Weber and Hamuis most nights. Arnott does not use his size well and usually seems shy to go to the net, leaving that job on the power play to Radulov, Jones, Dumont, and other smaller players.
Smithson, Nichol, Fiddler, and Tootoo are willing to play the phyiscal game, but are so under sized (and in Smithson and Tootoo’s case, misses half the time he tries to check people) that they aren’t that effective.
Posted by pwnicholson from Nashville, TN on 11/19/08 at 01:04 PM ET