Have you actually seen any AHL games this season?

Bernier’s record is 26-18-5, and his team is in fourth-place in their division. Sure, he has eight shutouts and a sparkling save percentage, but he’s nowhere even close to being the AHL MVP. Putting those words in the same sentence as Bernier is not only evidence that you have never seen an AHL game this season, but your selection is arbitrarily based on stats alone. Is he the best goaltender? Perhaps. But is he the most valuable player in the league? That’s an argument that you won’t win.

By the way, claiming he has a substantial lead over McKenna is ridiculous. He has 8 more saves over 1000 shots. Do you call that a “substantial lead” or slightly better? Because 8/1000ths of a point is insignificant anywhere in life.

Rookie Braden Holtby of the Hershey Bears is 19-5-1. His save percentage isn’t far behind that of Bernier’s at .920, but Hershey would be a far cry from where they are now without Holtby’s phenomenal play. Having seen him play four times this season already, Holtby is heads and shoulders above the Bernier. He’s Hershey’s starter, their go-to goalie, has lead them to the best record in the AHL thus far, and he’s a rookie. MVP? Hands-down better than Bernier.

Keith Aucoin, Alexandre Giroux, Cedric Desjardins, Brock Trotter, PK Subban, and Peter Mannino should also be considered.

Heck, Mannino is the entire reason why Chicago went from fourth-place in the West Division to first-place within three weeks.The guy is 21-3-0 on the season with a 2.14 GAA and a .926 save percentage. He’s CLEARLY more valuable than Bernier based on his stats alone. But you’d know that if you had followed the AHL this season.

Don’t bother telling me you’ve watched games this season either. Otherwise, this kind of garbage wouldn’t be written.

Posted by Teebz from Canada on 03/13/10 at 02:21 PM ET

Yes I have watched the AHL enough to see that your opinion is totally offbase.

The most significant argument against it is Bernier`s saves percentage.  He has the best saves percentage that has been recorded in the league since 2005/06 (and probably much longer - that is as far back as stats go online) and he has been a clear number one goalie playing as close to everyday as and goalie in the league does.  If you cannot notice that as an extraordinary performance, you have not been watching.  That would tie Dominik Hasek in 1998/99 for the highest saves percentage the league has ever recorded since they started officially keeping the stat in 1983.  It seems you totally reject the concept of saves percentage and do not recognize how exceptional this season has been for Bernier.

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 03/13/10 at 02:34 PM ET

How many games have you seen him play in the AHL this season.  Please answer this truthfully.

Posted by moore00 from Columbus, OH/Grand Rapids, MI on 03/13/10 at 02:39 PM ET

Moore is trying to score points by claiming I don`t watch the games I speak about - when he probably has no opinion at all except that he would like to expose me somehow.

Its not so easy to watch AHL games even if you have a really good TV package.    Here is the AHL TV schedule this year.  There are only 2 Manchester Monarchs games broadcast all season and I am not in the market for either.  However, if you go here you can see games on line (for a cost), but you can get an awful lot of highlights after the fact from the games and I watch these frequently.  I have seen lots of Bernier`s games in highlights and no complete games at all and that is more than enough to conclude that Jonathan Bernier is having an extraordinary season.

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 03/13/10 at 02:59 PM ET

but Hershey would be a far cry from where they are now without Holtby’s phenomenal play.

It seems to me the team leading the AHL in goals by 50 would be less reliant upon a goalie than a team like Hamilton who is looking pretty good in the standings but has substantially less scoring.  You acknowledge this by adding to Hershey forwards to the mix of potential MVP candidates.  I haven’t seen any AHL games but I don’t think its necessary to understand the lessened impact a goalie has on a lower scoring team than one on a much higher scoring team let alone one leading the entire league by 50 goals.

Posted by JBM on 03/13/10 at 03:59 PM ET

@PSH, are you saying that save percentage is the overriding factor for an MVP? Are you trying to redefine how another trophy is awarded?

It doesn’t matter how good he has been statistically throughout history. Who is the most valubale player to his team right now? Mannino, Holtby, and Desjardins are far more important to their teams’ successes than Bernier has been. Otherwise, he wouldn’t be a mere six games above .500. And his team wouldn’t be sitting in fourth-place in their division.

“I have seen lots of Bernier`s games in highlights and no complete games at all and that is more than enough to conclude that Jonathan Bernier is having an extraordinary season”. Seriously? I’d like to see you vote for the Academy Awards by watching just the trailers for each movie. I’m sure you’d be held in high esteem by the Academy.

I have seen mostly all of the teams play this season thanks to the AHL Live package, and I can tell you that Bernier has been average in the majority of games. His team gives up a ton of shots, and he stops most of them which is why his save percentage is good. But he hasn’t single-handedly won a pile of games that he shouldn’t have. Nor has he stood out as the best player in the league, let alone in his own division. That is exactly what MVP goaltenders do.

This also highlights the problem with a highlight package. The Edmonton Oilers can look like the most dominant team in the NHL when viewing their highlight packages. Except they are not. The same holds true for Bernier. He is not the best player in the AHL by any means.

Awarding the MVP to a player based on one statistic is simply asinine. This isn’t baseball.

PSH, you need to start looking at how valuable a player is to his team combined with his overall performance. For goaltenders, that includes personal record, GAA, save %age, and games played.  That’s how the MVP is judged - a combination of the player’s personal achievements and his team’s overall success.

Otherwise, the AHL’s MVP is as farcical as A-Rod winning the MVP award in baseball while playing for the last-place Texas Rangers.

@JBM, there is no doubt that Holtby has had help, and I appreciate that opinion. But the kid is a rookie, and is 19-5-1. He plays like a seasoned veteran. Peter Mannino has been spectacular for Chicago. And Desjardins arguably plays in the tougher conference so he can’t be overlooked either.

Posted by Teebz from Canada on 03/13/10 at 05:14 PM ET

Teebz

You have a fundamental lack of understanding about how to analyze goaltending.

Four teams in the AHL have scored fewer goals than Mancester (Springfield, Adirondack, Toronto and Manitoba).  With the exception of Manitoba, they are bottom feeding teams well out of the playoffs.  Manitoba is not doing as well as Mancester but has had good goaltending from Cory Shcneider to keep them in the race.

Mancester is a solid playoff team.  They would have 6th seed in the East Conference (and are tied with Lowell who holds down 5th due to tiebreakers).  That is a good season despite no offence.  The only reason for it is goaltending.  You somehow cannot see this because you hold Mancester`s lack of scoring (and hence failure to be first overall) as being Bernier`s fault.

Who do you see as the best goalie in the NHL this season?  Hint it has been Ryan Miller (he has had better offence behind him than Bernier has, but Buffalo is not an offensive juggernaut).  Blaming a goalie for a lack of goals by his team shows a fundamental lack of understanding of hockey.

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 03/13/10 at 05:32 PM ET

You have a fundamental lack of understanding about how the AHL Playoffs work, but that’s ok. You admittedly just watch highlights.

Teams play within their divisions first: 1 vs. 4, and 2 vs. 3. There are no seedings like in the NHL. That means that Manchester gets a date with Worcester if the playoffs were to start today. And I guarantee you that Alex Stalock would outduel Bernier in that series.

But back to the task at hand, I have never blamed Bernier for anything. His stats are good - which is entirely why he could be the best goaltender in the AHL. I’ve said this twice now. But he is not the MVP in the AHL.

Secondly, his win-loss record is nowhere close to MVP-caliber. This is a major criterion of the MVP award. Unless he’s Jose Theodore circa 2004, he doesn’t have a shot compared to some of the other goaltenders out there, let alone some of the scoring sensations.

Looking back on who won the Les Cunningham Award, there have been a few goalies in modern history. Here’s the small sampling.

Pelle Lindbergh (1980-81 - Maine) - 31-14-5; .893; 3.26. Mariners were 1st in division.
J. F. Labbe (1996-97 - Hershey) - 34-22-9; .914; 2.52. Bears were 2nd in division.
Martin Brochu (1999-00 - Portland) - 32-15-6; .925; 2.18. Pirates were 2nd in division.
Jason LaBarbera (2003-04 Hartford) - 32-9-9; .936; 1.59. Wolf Pack were 1st in division.

Here are the four men I suggested from this year.

Jonathan Bernier (Manchester) - 26-18-5; .937; 2.08. Monarchs are in 4th in division.
Peter Mannino (Chicago) - 21-3-0; .926; 2.14. Wolves are in 1st in division.
Cedric Desjardins (Hamilton) - 24-8-2; .925; 1.93. Bulldogs are 1st in division.
Braden Holtby (Hershey) - 19-5-1; .918; 2.33. Bears are 1st in division.

One of those goaltenders is not like the others when it comes to his record and his team’s standing. I appreciate how important Bernier is to Manchester, but unless he records a shutout, his team normally loses. Should Bernier be penalized because his team can’t score? Probably not.

However, of those goalies above, it should be noted that both Martin Brochu and Jason Labarbera did not have the best GAA in the league when they won their MVP awards. Therefore, statistics play a role, but not the deciding role in who wins the MVP. Again, this means that the team’s success plays a bigger role in the voting for the AHL MVP.

Sorry, but both historical and current stats say that Bernier is not the MVP.

Posted by Teebz from Canada on 03/13/10 at 07:46 PM ET

Your argument comes down to the problem that win-loss records do not do a good job of showing how good a goalie is.  A goalie on a good team wins a lot more than a goalie on a bad team - even if the goalie on the bad team is a better goalie.

You are so stuck on win/loss records that you pick the third best goalie to play with Hershey in Braden Holtby as an MVP candidate.

Semyon Varloamov 1.95 GAA .933 saves percentage (only 3 games played on a conditioning stint)
Michal Neuvirth 2.09 GAA .926 saves percentage (19 games played due to NHL call up)
Braden Holtby 2.37 GAA .917 saves percentage (27 games played in the AHL - about half of Bernier)

All three played with the same team.  Your man Holtby was the worst of the three and the numbers clearly show it.  But you look at his wins record and think that is somehow a reason to overlook the fact he has been the team`s third best goalie and is instead an MVP candidate.

Your Hamilton and Chicago goalies are at least the best goalie on their team this year, but have shared their goaltending job with a partner and thus have significantly fewer games played (which makes them significantly less valuable).  What they do have is good offensive support from their teams and that makes their wins easier to come by than Bernier`s.  Bernier plays more and plays better than your weak MVP candidates a simple glance at the numbers you posted show that.  Bernie has a better saves percentage by a large margin.  He has the second best GAA (behind a Hamilton goalie who plas behind a better defence facing far fewer shots).  He has more wins than any of your MVP candidates as well.  The only complaint you have is that his team is not in first place in its division.  That fact is clearly related to the fact that they have the fifth lowest scoring team in the league.  That fact is not something you can blame a goalie for.  Your problem with Bernier is that he doesn`t score enough to make his team win - he clearly stops enouigh shots for it to happen.  Take a look at your MVP goalies over the years, Bernier has a better saves percentage and a better GAA than any of them.  Barring a surprise in the remainder of the season, Bernier is the clear AHL MVP and the goalies you list are not even serious candidates.  If it isn`t Bernier it is a Hershey forward in Keith Aucoin or Alexandre Giroux.  The fact that Hershey has the top two scorers in the league is a big part of the explanation of Holtby`s win/loss record.  His own skill level is a much less significant reason for it.

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 03/13/10 at 08:40 PM ET

To put this in an NHL context, I am saying that Ryan Miller should be MVP and Teebz is arguing that Jose Theodore and Cristobal Huet are better MVP candidates because they are on teams that win more and thus have a higher percentage of their games having been wins, despite the fact Miller is clearly playing much better than either of them and its not even close enough that anyone should sensibly be arguing otherwise.

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 03/13/10 at 08:48 PM ET

HOW DOES PLAYING LESS GAMES MAKE ONE LESS VALUABLE? Where do you come up with this stuff? By your criteria, Grant Fuhr would be the most valuable player in 1995-96 when he started 76 straight games. Except he wasn’t.

In case you haven’t been reading, Holtby is a rookie playing in the AHL. It’s rare that rookies play as well as he has, let alone leading a team to a playoff spot with an amazing 27 games to play in the regular season. Since this happens regularly, I’m sure it can be overlooked. Nothing out of the norm there.

Do you think Chicago would be where they are if Mannino hadn’t stepped in and posted a 21-3-0 record? Legace did nothing to help the Wolves when he was there, and he’s an NHL goaltender. Answer that honestly. Because if you had been following the AHL at all this season, you’d know that the Wolves were floundering in fourth-place in the West before he took over the starting job. But you saw that on the highlights, right?

Let’s break down the fallacies in your arguments, shall we?

“Your Hamilton and Chicago goalies are at least the best goalie on their team this year, but have shared their goaltending job with a partner and thus have significantly fewer games played (which makes them significantly less valuable)”.

Um, no. It makes them human. Mannino can go 21-3-0 by not being burned out. Desjardins can go 24-8-2 by not being tired. Playing less games does not make them less valuable when their winning percentage is .875 and .706 respectively. If anything, that makes them more valuable because Mannino wins 87.5% of the games he plays, and Desjardins wins 70.6% of the games he plays. Bernier? .531. There’s a 1 in 2 chance he will play well enough to win the game. But I suppose those MVP odds, right?

“What they do have is good offensive support from their teams and that makes their wins easier to come by than Bernier`s”.

Oh, so the best defence is a good offence? This is your argument? Is that how the GAAs and save percentages of the other three goalies are earned? By having their teams score more? Scoring goals allows the goaltender to make the saves. Wow… is there any logical thinking going on?

Mannino, Desjardins, and Holtby still have to make the saves. That’s what their stats reflect. And, in comparison to Bernier, they are better or equal. Especially that win-loss one.

“Bernier plays more and plays better than your weak MVP candidates a simple glance at the numbers you posted show that”.

Show me where he plays better. Desjardins has a lower GAA. They all have a better winning percentage. But they’re all in the same boat. I’m not sure why you keep beating the drum that Bernier’s numbers are so much better. And that leads me to…

“Bernie has a better saves percentage by a large margin.  He has the second best GAA (behind a Hamilton goalie who plas behind a better defence facing far fewer shots).  He has more wins than any of your MVP candidates as well”.

A large margin, eh? So he has made, statistically-speaking, 11 more saves on 1000 shots than Mannino, and 12 more over 1000 shots than Desjardins. You do realize how insignificant that number is, right? .011 and .012 better. That’s one more save over 100 shots. ONE. No more, no less. So explain to me how his save percentage is better “by a large margin” again? I need the laugh.

You keep making this MVP thing not about the team, but then you bitch and complain about a better defence in front of Desjardins. So is Desjardins better because his stats are better than Bernier? Or because his team is better? Or because both are better?

I don’t want to point out how dumb it is saying that Bernier has more wins than any of the other goaltenders when two of them haven’t even played 26 games yet, but have a winning percentage that eclipses Bernier’s “by a large margin”. I’ll wager that all three men have more wins than Bernier by season’s end.

“The only complaint you have is that his team is not in first place in its division.  That fact is clearly related to the fact that they have the fifth lowest scoring team in the league.  That fact is not something you can blame a goalie for”.

So why is Manitoba’s Cory Schneider not an MVP candidate? His team scores less than Manchester, and he has more wins than Bernier. Are we going back to stats? Then Cedric Desjardins is better than both statistically.

You can’t have it both ways, PSH. He either plays for a lousy team, or he isn’t the best goaltender. And if you choose the lousy team excuse, there are worse teams with better goaltenders.

“he clearly stops enouigh shots for it to happen”.

I love this one. He is 26-18-5. So, in essence, he is 26-23. He stops enough shots to be a .500 goalie on a .500 team. Wow, now that’s an MVP!

Take a look at your MVP goalies over the years, Bernier has a better saves percentage and a better GAA than any of them.

I assume you can read, right? Jason Labarbera, the last goalie to be crowned as MVP, had the following stats: 32-9-9, .936 save percentage, and a 1.59 GAA. That more wins for Labarbera, a better winning percentage, a better GAA, and a .001 difference in save percentage. But Bernier is still better. Clearly. Even though his stats are worse, he’s better because he plays on a lousy team.

Are you starting to realize that team success has a large part of a goaltender’s MVP opportunity? Good teams have successful goalies. .500 teams have .500 goalies.

If it isn`t Bernier it is a Hershey forward in Keith Aucoin or Alexandre Giroux.  The fact that Hershey has the top two scorers in the league is a big part of the explanation of Holtby`s win/loss record.  His own skill level is a much less significant reason for it.

So now you’re willing to look elsewhere, but Holtby still can’t make saves? Wow. Sure, the Bears can score at will. No one ever disputed that fact. But it’s not like Holtby faces three shots a night.

Holtby is a rookie in the AHL. He knows none of the shooters through experience, but he has little to no skill according to you. Have you seen him play? Because that sounds like an arrogant claim from someone who knows nothing about the AHL.

“To put this in an NHL context, I am saying that Ryan Miller should be MVP and Teebz is arguing that Jose Theodore and Cristobal Huet are better MVP candidates because they are on teams that win more and thus have a higher percentage of their games having been wins, despite the fact Miller is clearly playing much better than either of them and its not even close enough that anyone should sensibly be arguing otherwise.”

To put this in a context you understand, this was about the AHL. If Ryan Miller was playing .500 hockey like Bernier is, do you think he’d be mentioned in MVP chatter?

No? Wow. What a surprise.

Are you done now?

Posted by Teebz from Canada on 03/13/10 at 09:09 PM ET

Teebz

Your argument is beyond ridiculous.  You are supporting goalies who have played barely over a third of their team`s games played as MVP.  That makes no sense.  You cannot be MVP without playing in a significant portion of your team`s games.

You are picking goalies who have played behind top offences and thus have not had to do much to win games.  Hence they have top win percentages.

A good way to quantify this is using the win threshold stat pioneered in the Brodeur is a Fraud blog.  I have calculated approximate win threshold stats for the goalies in question (approximate because i didn`t bother to find the exact goals for scored when each goalie was in net and I assumed that their offensive support was the average for their team over the season - which is false but probably not a bad assumption).

Jonathan Bernier .919
Peter Mannino .870
Cedrick Desjardins .857
Braden Holtby .848

These are essentially the minimum saves percentage that the goalie in question can have and still be a winner.  Clearly Bernier has a much tougher job than any you support.  Desjardins and Holtby and Mannino could be posting league worst saves percentages and still be winning goalies.  The worst saves percentage among goalies who have played sufficient games in the league is .878 of Thomas McCollum of Grand Rapids.  You have merely found goalies who have had easy jobs and hence were in net when their teams won games.  They did not have to excel to win.  Bernier did.

You shrug off the fact that Jonathan Bernier has a remarkable saves percentage.  It is highest in the league.  It is highest since the lockout in the NHL.  There are no records online past that point on the AHL website, but this may be the best saves percentage ever posted in the league. 

Here are their saves percentages
Bernier .937
Mannino .927
Desjardins .925
Holtby .919

You shrug off this difference saying that Bernier stops 10 more shots out of 1000 when compared to Mannino (and bigger margins for the other goalies).  What you do not understand is these are significant margins.  Bernier allows 63 goals on 1000 shots.  Mannino allows 16% more.  Desjardins 19% more, Holtby 29% more.  Can you seriously call a goalie who allows 16% more goals on the same number of shots basically an equivalent goalie?  It isn`t even close.  bernier is far better and the margin is even bigger for Desjardns and it is much bigger still for Holtby.

Jonathan Bernier is having an outstanding AHL season.  It is a shame that you haven`t been able to notice.  The fact that you try to argue that clearly weaker goalies who have not played in most of their team`s games are better MVP candidates is ridiculous.  I am truly expecting that you will turn around and say that you were putting me on by this line of argument, because the alternative is that you have no comprehension of hockey.  Can you serously tell me that a goalie with 27 games played who would be a winning goalie even if he posted a .848 saves percentage and has been the third best goalie on his own team this year is an MVP because he has been a winning goalie?  It is beyond ridiculous.

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 03/14/10 at 12:21 AM ET

Did you know that the AHL doesn’t use any other stats except the ones they record to determine trophy winners? I don’t care what other math equations you found.

These are essentially the minimum saves percentage that the goalie in question can have and still be a winner.  Clearly Bernier has a much tougher job than any you support.

It doesn’t matter how hard his job is. The only thing that matters are results. This is the same basis we apply for every trophy awarded in major sports, and why final stats are used to judge how a player did.

The average goals-against per game for Manchester? 2.5.
Average for Hershey? 2.43.
Hamilton? 2.21
Chicago? 2.58
In contrast, Manitoba’s GA per game is 2.97.

So why isn’t Cory Schneider your MVP? He has a much harder job than Bernier does. And Bernier gets more defensive help than Mannino according to the number of goals-against, so Mannino would have to have a harder job, right?

Or could it be because Bernier plays in a defence-first system? His team only averages 2.62 goals-for per game. Manitoba averages 2.58 goals-for per game in a very defence-first oriented system. So whose job is tougher to earn wins in? And who has more wins? If your answer is Cory Schneider, you’d be correct.

The one great thing about statistics is that you can make up a pile of numbers that sound impressive, but really do nothing to prove your point. The biggest equalizer in sports is still wins and losses. And, unfortunately, Bernier has a lot more losses than the other three men combined. And he hasn’t accumulated enough wins to catch Cory Schneider, who arguably has the toughest job in the AHL.

The fact is that he’s a .500 goalie with above-average stats. And .500 goalies are not MVPs.

Posted by Teebz from Canada on 03/14/10 at 11:39 AM ET

Did you know that the AHL doesn’t use any other stats except the ones they record to determine trophy winners? I

This statement is 100% false.  Any league uses any and all analysis to determine award winners.  It is a lie that you are using as sour grapes because the players you select as MVP candidates have been exposed as poor choices propped up only by a fundamental misunderstanding of statistics (you think win/loss records accurately show how well a goalie plays regardless of the play of his team in front of him).

Now that your first three choices have been discredited, you are propping up another in Cory Schneider.  Why is Schneider not as good a player this season as Bernier? 

Compare their basic numbers:
Cory Schneider .916 saves percentage 2.64 GAA
Jonathan Berner .937 saves percentage 2.08 GAA

It`s not even close.  Bernier`s numbers are significantly better.  It is true that Schneider plays behind a team that doesn`t score much.  Schneider`s win threshold is .916.  This is slightly below Bernier.  This is because Mancester allows more shots than Manitoba, so Bernier must save more shots to win games (despite a slightly lower goal support). 

Win threshold numbers are numbers that give the context behind win/loss records.  A goalie with a high win threshold is in a situation where it is hard to succeed.  A goalie with a low win threshold can win easily, even without playing well.  Nobody should win the MVP for having a high win threshold, but if one puts up great numbers (best saves percentage the AHL has seen in years if not ever) and wins getting his team into the playoffs despite a lack of support from the gteam in front of him, then he is a great MVP candidate.  Jonathan Bernier has done exactly that.

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 03/14/10 at 03:06 PM ET

I can’t spell it out any clearer, so I want to see how much you believe all your stats.

If you truly think Bernier is going to win the MVP - and it is is clear that you do - put your money where your mouth is. Because I’m tired of hearing why you think he will when he won’t even be considered.

I’ll bet that Bernier doesn’t win because he won’t win.

Are you willing to back your claims up? Because I’m confident that not only will I win, but that this is like taking the proverbial candy from the proverbial baby.

State your terms for this friendly bet. It doesn’t have to be money or merchandise, and I would prefer it not to be so that I don’t have to take from you.

And if you don’t want to take the friendly bet, it will be evident as to how confident you are in your stats about Bernier. After all, since the award is “voted on by AHL media and players” and none of them, who I’ve talked to, consider Bernier the MVP of the AHL, I’m sure he’s a shoo-in to win.

So are you in, or are you out?

Posted by Teebz from Canada on 03/14/10 at 07:13 PM ET

I don`t know how to bet with somebody I did not know existed until he commented upon my blog.  How certain am I that you would be around to pay up when you lose?

I am happy to pick Jonathan Bernier as AHL MVP and you can pick any one of your second rate goalies in situations where they can win without playing particularly well.  But before going through with a bet I have to be convinced that you will not disappear from your online persona before you can pay up.

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 03/14/10 at 07:36 PM ET

How little one pays attention.

Perhaps you forgot that I called you out on your ridiculous Lady Byng article that suggested the better defensive player deserves the Lady Byng? No? Because you argued with me there as well.

In terms of me disappearing, perhaps you should check the URL attached to my name. You do know what that is, right? You just need to click on my name, and it will take you to my site.

And I’m not going anywhere. I’ll be right here when they announce the winner of the Les Cunningham Award. I’m don’t have to select anyone because I offered up six players who have a better shot than Bernier in winning. Instead, I am betting that Jonathan Bernier will not win. It’s simple: you’ll be pro-Bernier, and I’ll take anyone but Bernier. Just like we did for the last 16 comments.

Name your terms, and we’ll have this in writing.

Posted by Teebz from Canada on 03/14/10 at 10:27 PM ET

Still waiting….

Posted by Teebz from Canada on 03/15/10 at 04:17 PM ET

This is like reading a dispute between a movie critic reviewing a movie he’s never seen and the director of said movie.

Posted by steve on 03/15/10 at 04:36 PM ET

Teebz

For a bet to be meaningful, there has to be an expectation that both sides will be around to pay up if they lose.  I have no idea how you can give me that assurance, but right now I have no reason to believe it exists.

I am more than happy to bet if you can successfully make that assurance.

I pick Jonathan Bernier as the MVP of the AHL and you pick ??? (I am not sure who your pick is) and I have no idea what kind of stakes you would want and how you could assure me that you would actually pay up upon your loss.

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 03/15/10 at 06:00 PM ET

So, in other words, the friendly bet that we are making will never happen because you feel that I won’t pay up? Not that I’m worried about paying up since Bernier has no chance of winning, but it sounds like you don’t believe in your pick.

Again, you’ll be pro-Bernier and you’ll support him 100%. I’ll be anti-Bernier and I’ll be waiting for the announcement. I’m not gonna dance and gloat and tell you “I told you so”.

Here’s what I’ll do. If Bernier wins, write up an entire blog piece, and I’ll post it on my blog with a full endorsement of your work here. It will not only be an endorsement of your work, but I’ll even tell everyone how I was wrong despite me watching hundreds of AHL games this year.

Counter-offer?

Posted by Teebz from Canada on 03/15/10 at 06:09 PM ET

Is this resolved? No response = no faith in Bernier?

Posted by Teebz from Canada on 03/17/10 at 08:45 PM ET

No response = no faith in you

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 03/17/10 at 09:13 PM ET

You’re kidding me, right? I have only offered you several opportunities. I have even stated what I would do in the event that you’re right so that there is no worry on your end of the bargain about me paying up since you think I’m some sort of welcher.

All you have to do is show some faith in your man Bernier, and this bet will be on.

Unless you’re scared that you’ll lose. Which I totally understand based on your MVP pick.

Perhaps it’s you who won’t pay up? Should I be worried? Why welch on a deal as easy as the one I proposed? What do you have to lose (besides pride and credibility)?

Posted by Teebz from Canada on 03/17/10 at 11:30 PM ET

I see no point in this ill-defined bet.  What is it you think should be betted?  Basically pride.  That is on the line always - whenever I write anything.  If it is proven totally wrong it hurts credibility and my pride.

It is quite clear that Jonathan Bernier is a very strong MVP candidate in the AHL.  Like many awards, i have picked the person I think should be the front runner.  You seem to have no idea how good Bernier has been and have a very poor understanding of how to pick a top goalie performance.

Here is something for you to think about.  TSN statistically ranks the top players in the AHL (last update is March 16th).  Who is ranked number one?  Jonathan Bernier.  Notice that the goalies you think should be MVP ahead of him are totally unranked.  What sould that tell you?  Even if TSN’s numbers are imperfect (which of course they are), it shows your MVP picks are way out to lunch and the guy you are so cocksure about being a bad candidate who cannot win must be considered a leading candidate.

When the season is over, will i write anything about Bernier winning or not winning MVP?  Given that this is my 6th season of blogging and I mentioned the Les Cunningham award presentation only 2 times when it happened (and not last year) it is quite possible that it slips by me during the Stanley Cup playoffs.  Nevertheless, Jonathan Bernier is the top condender to win the award and your failure to notice this draws into question your level of undersatnding of hockey.

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 03/18/10 at 08:53 AM ET

You admittedly say that TSN’s numbers are imperfect, but then agree with them. Would that not make your numbers imperfect?

You are using TSN’s numbers which only include goalies that have played a minimum of 40 games. Do you know how many have attained that number this season? 15. Great evaluation process midway through the season (excuse my sarcasm). Not only are TSN’s numbers inperfect, but they don’t even consider half of the league’s goaltenders at this point. What a great statistical analysis!

Secondly, the numbers are fantasy statistical projections. That means that Bernier is the highest rated player simply due to the fact his stats are good and that he plays in nearly every game. If he plays in nearly every game, that means his fantasy rating is high because he will almost always guarantee you results. Did you happen to overlook the disclaimer?

Look, I don’t care if you don’t mention the Les Cunningham Award at all during the season. In fact, you’re probably better off not mentioning it. However, my understanding of hockey goes way deeper than you comprehend since (a) we’ve seen that you don’t know how the AHL Playoffs work, (b) I understand that a .500 goalie is not an MVP by any means or any stats, and (c) you have no vote on who wins this award.

Perhaps you forgot that the AHL media and players vote on the AHL MVP?

I’m done with this conversation. Respond if you like, but please keep picking the players that you think should win awards. I encourage you to do so. Just leave the real voting up to those who actually watch the games, and not just highlight packages.

Posted by Teebz from Canada on 03/18/10 at 12:09 PM ET