Are you serious with this? All the remaining goalies have been tested deep in the playoffs and have won the cup in the last 5 years except Fleury, who came close. And yet Hiller is an elite goalie because of two good series, one of which he didn’t even win?

If none of the remaining teams have elite goaltenders then none of the remaining teams are elite teams.  Detroit may come the closest to elite status, but they fail with Chris Osgood in net.

I laughed out loud when I read this. This Detroit team may be one of the best assembled teams in the history of the game and are very close to winning the Cup again and they aren’t elite?

Posted by Sp4r7an on 05/19/09 at 12:31 AM ET

I have no doubt that absent a salary cap the Detroit Red Wings would have a better goalie than Chris Osgood.

Detroit had the money to grab an “elite” goaltender but chose to take Ozzie because he is a proven winner and comes much cheaper than other goalies would have demanded. Because Detroit has Ozzie they were able to afford big contracts to keep their star fowards and sign Hossa. So in other words Detroit was not forced to sign Osgood because they had no money, he was the best option.

The fan is cheated.  Fans don’t get to see epic playoff battles between elite teams anymore because the NHL structure prevents the formation of elite teams.

I don’t know what the hell you are watching, but there have been many epic battles this year, the two most notable ones Detroit vs. Anaheim (the two last SC winners and a rivalry that is almost as big as the old Det vs Avs) and Pit vs the Caps (Ovie vs. Crosby another huge rivalry).

Posted by Sp4r7an on 05/19/09 at 12:42 AM ET

Are you kidding me?

Three of the 4 goalies remaining in the playoffs have all won Stanley Cups in recent years.

Osgood last year, Ward in 2006, and Khabibulin in 2004. Fleury came within 2 wins last year and has won 5 playoff series.

And did you watch the game tonight?

At first I thought this was sarcastic… Wow.

Posted by LGP8771 on 05/19/09 at 12:45 AM ET

If none of the remaining teams have elite goaltenders then none of the remaining teams are elite teams.  Detroit may come the closest to elite status, but they fail with Chris Osgood in net.  The fan is cheated.  Fans don’t get to see epic playoff battles between elite teams anymore because the NHL structure prevents the formation of elite teams.

I am astounded at your logic.

Have you even watched the playoffs this year?  The Caps/Pens series was pretty epic.  As was Detroit/Anaheim.  In each series there was a rookie goaltender and a “non-elite.”

Face it--there are very few elite goaltenders in the league at all right now.  That’s why they’re elite.

Posted by inhyung on 05/19/09 at 12:50 AM ET

Your notion of the elite goalie is very questionable. Luongo we can all agree is one of the best. Brodeur is another. But neither has performed well in the playoffs, Brodeur at least in recent years. On the other hand, the four remaining goalies have all backstopped teams into the finals and in three cases the Stanley Cup. Proven playoff performance makes all of these guys elite, no matter their regular season numbers.

And your second to last paragraph, about the lack of epic battles, shows that you are not very observant. We have had epic battles and epic battles of elite goalies. Nothing at all to complain about.

Posted by CP Manson from Texas on 05/19/09 at 12:53 AM ET

The last time a Hall of Fame calibre goalie won the Stanley Cup (as the number one - Hasek winning last year riding the pine proves little) was 2003 when Martin Brodeur and the New Jersey Devils won.  This is the longest streak of non-elite goalies winning the cup at least isnce the early days of the Stanley Cup and possibly ever.  The fact this time period corresponds with the onset of the salary cap is no surprise.  It is a direct consequence.  Elite teams don’t exist under the salary cap and the lack of elite goalies winning Stanley Cups is a symptom.

The fact we have some second rate goalies who have had Stanley Cup success in the past in this year’s cup in this year’s run does not change the fact that none of them are the best goalies in the league.

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 05/19/09 at 12:53 AM ET

blah blah blah. Another shot at osgood and now you bring in other goalies. Puckstopshere articles are a joke and really don’t mean sh1t. I don’t know how you can say Detroit isn’t an elite team. They’ve been to the west finals the last three years. has won the cup 4 times in the last 11 trying to make it 5 in the last 12.
Just like all the other crap you’ve written. The way you are hyprocritcal of yourself is just laughable. Broduer is god, then theres everyone else. The article you wrote before about osgood not being a hall of fame goalie then comparing to broduer. osgoods wins are team wins but broduers are i guess all personal. Don’t tell me brodouer didn’t have good teams in front of him, because he did. Please stop posting your trash on here cause it gets old fast. Khabibulin may not be the Khabibulin of old but he’s a damn good goalie. The hardest trophy to win and between 3 of the 4 guys you’ve listed theres 5 rings. hahaahaahah what a joke.

Posted by ME on 05/19/09 at 01:14 AM ET

Elite teams don’t exist under the salary cap and the lack of elite goalies winning Stanley Cups is a symptom.

The fact we have some second rate goalies who have had Stanley Cup success in the past in this year’s cup in this year’s run does not change the fact that none of them are the best goalies in the league.

You can’t say that ”IF none of the remaining teams have elite goaltenders THEN none of the remaining teams are elite teams” and then say that the lack of elite goalies currently in the league is a symptom.  A symptom is not a cause.

You’ve made an extremely baseless decision that one single aspect of a team--in this case goaltending--is what defines a team’s status as elite or not.

It’s not that I disagree that the remaining goalies aren’t all the best in the league, it’s the severely flawed logic you used to come to this bizarre conclusion that I have an issue with.

Posted by inhyung on 05/19/09 at 01:22 AM ET

I’m guessing this post was written purely to get the kind of responses that others have posted, because I think there is a lot of ridiculousness in this post.

There’s more to being an elite team than having an elite goaltender. In fact, if you have JUST an elite goaltender, chances are you’re not going to win much of anything. There are 19 players who suit up for a game, you know.

Posted by L33tgoalie on 05/19/09 at 01:35 AM ET

Well he must like to do that a lot, because all the trash he writes is like this.

Posted by ME on 05/19/09 at 01:46 AM ET

It’s both true and false:
1)True because none of these goalies is consistently awesome all year round (think brodeur, lundqvist)

2)False because most of these goalies haven’t caved to the pressure and won cups with their consistency.

I could sit here and pick apart the goalies but the truth is that Khabibulin was weak in his cup run, Osgood is always weak, fleury is horrible most nights and inconsistent other nights, Ward is probably the most consistent of the lot but even then he can’t carry a team on his back. 

I guess the definition of elite goaltending is “CARRYING A TEAM ON YOUR BACK”.  These are certainly “serviceable” goaltenders but when the play ramps up they aren’t really capable of facing 35+ shots AND getting a shutout in the same game.

Posted by stoneman from Vegas on 05/19/09 at 02:03 AM ET

It’s the usual thing from Puck, really.

He makes a flawed assumption, cites next-to-irrelevant ‘stats’ in support if it, then posts.

Here is the reality:  There are, maybe, three or four ‘elite’ goaltenders in the NHL.  Maybe.  And that’s stretching it.  And of the goalies on that list as of today, Martin Brodeur is the only one of them who has ever won anything in the playoffs, and he gave up some ciritical, critical softies in round 1.

So, that the 3 or 4 teams who boast ‘elite’ goaltenders don’t get to the CF level of the postseason in a league of 30 clubs shouldn’t be remotely surprising.

‘Elite’ is in quotes for a reason.  There is regular season ‘elite’ and then there is playoff ‘elite’.  Witness, for example, the San Jose Sharks.

Yes, there are a number of goalies who are playing well in the postseason who had anywhere from above-average to well below average regular seasons this year.  Puck takes a few brainless shots at individual ones, but his premise is so wildly flawed that it doesn’t make to try and talk him out of it.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 05/19/09 at 03:15 AM ET

‘Elite’ is in quotes for a reason.  There is regular season ‘elite’ and then there is playoff ‘elite’.  Witness, for example, the San Jose Sharks.

Exactly.

Posted by IwoCPO from Washington, DC on 05/19/09 at 03:46 AM ET

you know, i’ve read some of your columns before and i thought many of them were uninformed, but this one takes the cake…

it’s 899 words of fail

the whole concept of an elite goalie is just a creation of the media. at the end of the day all goalies today are pretty much the same now. they have good games and bad games, they get hot and cold, and none will be able to steal a series on their own. this hasn’t happened since the 2002/03 ducks with JS Guigere and his super inflated pads…

i know it’s opinion based and everything, but it reads like something that would get flamed off of hfboards for being so wrong

Cam Ward has a Cup and a conn smythe
Chris Osgood has 3 cups
Khabibulin has 1

and these arn’t elite goaltenders compared to who?

Luongo? won nothing in the playoffs..
Kiprusof? won nothing in the playoffs..
Brodeur? nothing in the playoffs since 2003…
Henrik Lundquist? won nothing in the playoffs…

are these the elite???

i think not. i think you need to revise you definition, or maybe think before posting such utter tripe. i just wish you’d look below the surface on one occasion. you’re as bad as a detoit beat writer with this glossy unresearched crap

Posted by Pharazon from England on 05/19/09 at 04:04 AM ET

If I made a list of the best goalies in hockey and you did, it would wind up with approximately the same guys on the list.  In fact we did this exercize at all star break.  Here it is.  We see that of the goalies still in the playoffs, Nikolai Khabibulin did the best.  He finished in a tie for 12th place with 2 votes.  Cam Ward and Marc-Andre Fleury each grabbed one vote and tied for 14th.  Chris Osgood was not voted for at all.  These are the final four goalies in the playoffs?  That isn’t good.

I want to see the best teams made up of the best players in the league playing against each other in the playoffs.  We don’t have that this year.  At the very least we are missing the best goalies.

Elite teams have top goalies.  The fact we don’t have any in the playoffs today means these teams may be the best the NHL offers, but none are elite.  That bothers me and it should bother hockey fans.

The salary cap and rapid expansion have reduced the quality of the best teams in the league.  That bothers me.  This is a symptom.

The Red Wings fans here are too quick to circle the wagons and defend Chris Osgood from the clearly warranted comment that he is not one of the top goalies in the league that they miss the main point.

The teams playing for the Stanley Cup are weaker than they have been in the past.  This is a direct consequence of the way Gary Bettman has run the NHL.  That doesn’t mean we cannot have any good games in the playoffs, but it does mean they are not as good as they could have been.  The NHL is being run in a way that reduces the quality of the best playoff teams.

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 05/19/09 at 04:20 AM ET

Elite teams have top goalies.

Oh good grief.

Dude, just start working on Fischler’s staff already.

Your position on this issue is possibly the most intellectually bankrupt stance I’ve seen you take on anything since being here at Kukla’s… and that’s saying something.

Seriously, do you think the 2007-8 or 2008-9 Red Wings couldn’t give the 1997-1998 Red Wings all they wanted in a series?  Or the 2002 Wings?

Jesus Christ, Puck.  The 1996-1997 Red Wings were maybe the best playoff team of the modern era… and they had Mike Vernon in net for them.  At that point was Vernon an ‘elite’ goalie since he was coming off a regular season where he was cleanly beaten out for the job by Osgood after posting a .899 save percentage behind that team, but got the playoff start because, hello, he had succeeded in the postseson before?  Vernon tossed a 1.76 and a .927 in that playoffs and won a Connie.

Of course, last year Ozzie posted a 1.55 and a .930, and you apparently can’t quite bring yourself to respect him just a little bit.

If you’ve done it, you can do it.

Posted by HockeyinHD on 05/19/09 at 04:44 AM ET

I read the headline, and then I read this comment.

Three of the 4 goalies remaining in the playoffs have all won Stanley Cups in recent years.

If you’re really intellectually bankrupt enough to keep going after that, then I’d like to learn how to suspend reality as you do.  What did it take, a soldering iron to the frontal cortex?

Posted by MarkK from Maryland on 05/19/09 at 06:33 AM ET

Elite teams have top goalies.

How about the 95-96 season when Detroit set/matched/broke many of the single season records, was that an elite team (even though Ozzie was the goalie).

We see that of the goalies still in the playoffs, Nikolai Khabibulin did the best.  He finished in a tie for 12th place with 2 votes.  Cam Ward and Marc-Andre Fleury each grabbed one vote and tied for 14th.  Chris Osgood was not voted for at all.  These are the final four goalies in the playoffs?  That isn’t good.

Did you poll last years season around the all star game as well.  I’m sure Ozzie would have gotten votes then, considering he was leading the league in save percentage.

Many have argued as to whether Chris Osgood should be in the hall of have despite having good enough stats, citing that playing for Detroit enabled him to ‘pad’ his stats.  With that arugment, is Osgood worthy of the hall of fame or is Detroit an elite team?

I’m kind of curious if The Puck Stops Here is really Greg Millen’s blog.  It sure sounds like the kind of jibberish he spews when giving his analysis.

Posted by mike from detroit on 05/19/09 at 07:07 AM ET

Look I agree there is an argument that Osgood is overrated from playing behind good Detroit teams, and that he never carried the Islanders or Blues to finals or some such.

My main issue would be that you can make the same argument for many supposedly ‘elite’ goal tenders – as the Brodeur is a fraud site does with great effectiveness (and for Osgood as well).

I would say the putative Norris winner is a good example of why your ‘has ever been considered elite’ or ‘won X award is a problem’. Green is going to win a bit of swag simply because he put up big numbers in a weak conference on a team surrounded by high end offensive talent (odd the team effect is used against Osgood – but not say in defense of Lidstrom – did very well but in front of a struggling Osgood this year…). Overall the playoffs have showed the reality; Lidstrom is still a Norris quality defenseman and failing that I’d pick Niedermayer or Pronger before Green and his disappearing act (yes I know its regular season but the evidence was there – Green’s quality of opposition was nowhere near that of the other two candidates).

Finally it just seems odd to say Osgood is done or his best days are behind him. He had a bad season no argument but the B-wall has had how many with Chicago until this year (I mean the Huet thing was not exactly a vote of confidence) and in the playoffs to date Osgood has been better. I guess I just don’t see at this point in the playoffs the continued desire you have to make Osgood look like the weakest of the four – aside from a bad regular season he out bested MAF last year and is playing as well as anyone left except for maybe Ward.

Seems rather like 3 about equal goalies and one perhaps better.

Posted by Paul on 05/19/09 at 07:14 AM ET

As far as Ozzie goes. Keep your filthy hands off of my dream, off of a keyboard, and get your facts straight before you start dribbling this verbal diarrhea. Behind every great team is a goal tender capable of whatever is asked of him.

So according to your logic, Kenny Dryden had a crappy team in front of him as well as Roy, Brodeur, and I guess I’ll throw Terry Sawchuk in there for good measure.Oh, and Hasek. You know, the guy that almost blew our Cup run last year. How great was he?

Hockey is a Team sport with no one part being greater that the whole.

Chris Osgood has the Cups, wins, and numbers, to make your statements look purely foolish at best and moronic at worst . I could go on and on but you took care of that already with sheer stupidity. How did you even get a spot here?

Maybe you should read what you are going to put up here before making a fool of yourself again. Or better yet, just hop on your Big Wheel and go home. The puck stops here but, the BS just keeps on coming.

Lets Go Red Wings!!!!!

Posted by Kate from Pa. on 05/19/09 at 07:15 AM ET

The playoffs are supposed to be epic battles between elite teams.  If none of the remaining teams have elite goaltenders then none of the remaining teams are elite teams.

That is one of the single stupidest things I’ve ever read on Kukla’s Korner.

Posted by Mandingo from The Garage on 05/19/09 at 08:17 AM ET

sweet. Now we get the shallow, uninformed, and shoddy work of the MSM via “new media”. It’s the best of both worlds. I can’t wait until we start hearing how the “soft” Euros can’t win a Cup....oh...wait… Or how a team led by a Euro captain....no, that won’t work either… or how you have to have a guy on the bench who’ll keep the other team from taking “liberties”....oh, wait.

Grapes, let me give you a little bit of a clue. When a goalie wins a Cup, as 3 of the 4 you’ve listed have, HE IS AN ELITE GOALIE. When one of them has multiple cups as the team’s primary playoff goalie he’s a stud. Numbers mean nothing, cups mean all. Until Luongo wins a cup, he’s got potential, same with Thomas, Hiller and 90% of the rest of the goalies who’ve every played in the NHL. Elite goalies win cups, the rest is academic.

Posted by wingsfanindenver on 05/19/09 at 08:34 AM ET

You want to see the best teams made up of the best players in these playoffs?

Tell me which other team out there, which collection of talent is more deserving than any of the final four teams.  Do you not feel like the three second-round matchups that went seven games were entertaining?  Perhaps the league will never have another truly ‘elite’ team by your standards because, quite frankly, your standards are stupid. 

The teams playing for the Stanley Cup are weaker than they have been in the past.

Name the Stanley Cup championship team of the last fifteen years that dominates any one of the final four teams right now.  Not beats in a seven-game series, but dominates.  I guarantee you that team doesn’t have an elite goaltender.

Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 05/19/09 at 09:02 AM ET

I think you need to look at what you consider elite. I would rather have a guy who can get it done in the playoffs than someone who has great numbers in the season and bombs in the playoffs.

I’m also getting really sick of this Osgood trashing. While I will admit that he is no Roy he also is not a weak link.

Hockey is a team sport and everyone has to do thier part to win. If your relying on your goalie to win you games then you obviously don’t have an “elite team”.

A$$....

Posted by Jockey full of bourbon on 05/19/09 at 10:16 AM ET

No i totally agree.  I mean elite goaltending...like Luongo giving up what 7?  And your also right Osgood is horrible.  Giving up 26 goals on 335 shots.  I mean he only wins cuz of the wings..... or you could take your head out of ur a$$ and realize that ozzy’s 335 saves are huge, because the wings do play really good d and don’t allow a lot of soft shots from the point.  Ozzy has to stand on his head on defensive miscues and breakdowns that affect every team.  Remember Ducks game 7?  if ozzy doesnt stop Wiesnyski (sp?) in the first period it may be ducks for blackhawks right now.  You are garbage as a writer, please tell me which elite team you wish were still in the playoffs?? The choke artist sharks?? The Bruins?? there are reasons why they are gone..mainly because they are not an elite team.

You make me hate people

Posted by Carson from Tucson on 05/19/09 at 10:22 AM ET

The fact the remaining teams in the playoffs this year do not have elite goaltenders is a symptom of the salary cap.  When the salary cap stays stagnant or goes down, due to economic issues in the next year or two things will get worse.  Teams in the immediate future will get worse than they are now and right now we are watching a playoff with no elite goalies.

Wow...just wow.  I don’t think you watch much hockey regardless (I’ve asked the question to you before and never got a response), but if you haven’t enjoyed the playoffs this season and think these playoffs don’t contain elite goalies, then turn off the tv.  Problem solved.

Posted by dash_pinched from Rumour Mill Bay on 05/19/09 at 11:28 AM ET

I will officially be ignoring “PuckStopsHere” from now on following this ridiculous post.

Posted by NHLJeff from Boston, MA on 05/19/09 at 11:33 AM ET

Honestly, the only thing that was good about this post was that I clicked through to the comments and was reassured that I’m not alone in thinking this post was pretty much complete drivel. 

Like many have said - I don’t know what playoffs you’ve been watching, but they have definitely been entertaining.

Elite teams need elite goaltenders?  Here I thought elite teams needed to balance out their strengths and weaknesses. 

Honestly, what are you watching?  The goalies that remain have been making timely, huge saves for their teams.  It’s not like we’re watching games with lacrosse-esque scores and goaltenders that couldn’t stop a beachball tossed by a toddler.  This whole article is made of fail.

Posted by dare from Edmonton, AB on 05/19/09 at 12:42 PM ET

I suppose we should just scrub this whole salary cap thing, get rid of any parity in the league, and allow the 4 teams who have unlimited income due to their location to buy up every good player. Why? Because otherwise we’re cheating the fans.

What a joke.

Posted by Kstewy16 on 05/19/09 at 12:45 PM ET

Way to stir up the Detroit fans PSH.

My only argument with your post is that I believe your fundamental assumption that elite goaltending is somehow valuable to the common fan is flawed. The common fan sees great saves from goaltenders all the time, elite and non-elite. I would go so far as to say some saves from non-elite goalies that look fantastic probably would have looked routine if an elite goalie were involved.

I think the typical fan would rather NOT see 1-0 games over and over. Take for instance the Dallas/Vancouver series a couple years ago. (I recognize that you don’t believe Turco is an elite goaltender, but I think you would recognize he exhibited some world-class goaltending during that series.) They’re draining and tedious, despite their moments of “almost score.” I’m sure a lot of fans enjoyed it, but I’m equally sure those same fans would have gotten a kick out of non-elite goaltending and porous defense as well.

Elite goaltending brings no extra value to most fans.

That being said, Osgood is absolutely the joke you describe him to be. Detroit fans should be happy that teams can be built that win despite their goalies, not because of them. And Osgood seems like a genuinely nice guy, so it’s okay to like him and root for him.

Posted by Mojo Tooth on 05/19/09 at 12:54 PM ET

Cam Ward is 25. Marc-Andre Fleury is 24.  I agree that if they retired after this season neither would be a Hall of Famer.  Your logic is absolutely perfect.  Bravo.

Posted by DiscoDan on 05/19/09 at 01:41 PM ET

“How can these be the best teams in the league when none have elite goaltending? “

Obviously because winning is more about how the team plays than about having elite goaltending. To put it in philosophical terms, having elite goaltending is (usually) a sufficient, but not necessary quality for an elite team. I say ‘usually’ because even the presence of an elite goaltender doesn’t guarantee a team is elite. Florida had Luongo for years and never made the playoffs. The Devils have had Brodeur for his entire career yet only have three Cup wins. To be an elite team is defined by more than merely the presence of elite goaltending.

“The fact there are no elite goaltenders left in the 2009 playoffs is clear from statistics.  The goalies with the top three playoff saves percentages (Jonas Hiller, Tim Thomas and Martin Brodeur) have all been eliminated from the playoffs.”

Are you seriously suggesting that Jonas Hiller and Tim Thomas are ‘elite’ goaltenders? The argument has been made by others (and I think well) that Brodeur owes much of his success to the system and defense in front of him (exhibit A: Clemmonson’s stats during Brodeur’s absence), but I am more than willing to concede that Brodeur is an elite goaltender. But Jonas Hiller? Please. He has one of the deepest defense corps in history in front of him; Pronger (former Hart and Norris winner), Niedermayer (Norris winner), etc. etc., and Tim Thomas is so elite he didn’t make the NHL until well into his 30’s and only coincidentally plays behind Norris nominee Zdeno Chara and a deep defense corps. Clearly something other than their regular season stats needs to be considered before qualifying somebody as being an ‘elite’ goaltender. Maybe…cup wins? Playoff victories? Except that would discount your theory….

“A team can be the best without elite goaltending.  That has not been the case historically.  Nearly any team that won the Stanley Cup did so with an elite goaltender in net.  This isn’t so true anymore.”

Ward, Khabiboulin, Osgood, Vernon, Richter, Belfour, Barrasso – all won Cups in the last 15 years. Roloson, Kiprusoff, Hextall, Vanbiesbrouck, Giguere, McLean, Hrudey, Casey and Irbe all made losing appearances in the finals over that same time. Quibble with me if you will about some of the names on that list that you might consider elite (Belfour for example), but it is hard to argue that only elite goaltending gets you to the dance, or helps you win it all over the last decade and a half. Being an elite team is more than having Hasek, St Patrick, or Marty between the pipes, and has been for quite some time.

“As I have written in the past parity is a problem come Stanley Cup playoff time. “

This is where you completely lose me. Parity is a problem? How exactly? Did ratings suddenly dive after that Pittsburgh-Washington series? Does the fact that now instead of 4 game sweeps we get treated to thrilling seven game series mean there is a problem?

“The playoffs are supposed to be epic battles between elite teams.  If none of the remaining teams have elite goaltenders then none of the remaining teams are elite teams.”

I’ll repeat myself for the sake of clarity, an elite goaltender is a sufficient but not necessary condition for a team to be elite. It’s a team game, so elite teams need more than just one guy to be elite. Historical examples abound.

“Detroit may come the closest to elite status, but they fail with Chris Osgood in net.  The fan is cheated.  Fans don’t get to see epic playoff battles between elite teams anymore because the NHL structure prevents the formation of elite teams.”

We are faced with the strong possibility of a repeat of last years Pittsburgh/Detroit final – doesn’t that say something about your supposed ‘parity’ that we have repeat cup finalists? And do you really think anyone in Detroit is feeling cheated by Osgood’s performance in the playoffs so far?

Posted by Cameron on 05/19/09 at 01:45 PM ET

How about looking at the other elite players in determining if a team is elite or not?

Is it fair to argue that an elite team should have more than one elite player?  If that’s the case, let’s look at that important list again, and think of the other positions.

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/psh/comments/top_five_players/

So, none of the elite goaltenders made it to conference finals, however, looking at elite forwards and defensemen, the Red Wings seem to fit the bill.  If you expand beyond the top five to those receiving votes, we see a lot of players from Detroit, Chicago, and Pittsburgh.  Frankly, I think it’s possible to be an elite team without an elite goaltender.  Hockey is a sport about team work and group accomplishments.  We all love to track the individual stats as well, but sometimes the best goalie in the world isn’t the best goaltender for your team, and your team can be made better by substituting a better individual with a better piece of the team.

I happen to think that this isn’t a symptom of the disintegration of quality of the NHL, but rather an improvement of the quality of the non-elite players.  The development of goaltenders in the world has improved a ton, and even the worst NHL goaltenders today are far better than the best goaltenders of 30 years ago.  Frankly, in my mind, all of the NHL goaltenders are elite, and stratifying them within that rank is just nitpicking.  In my opinion, that’s why the Vezina winners aren’t a lock to be the Stanley Cup winners.

Posted by Eric on 05/19/09 at 02:58 PM ET

Wow, another shot at Ozzie plus an opportunity to praise Hiller. This whole article is trash. You could assemble the best players in the entire NHL and they could still fail if they don’t play as a TEAM. Forget elite players and elite goaltenders, instead we’ve got four elite teams in the playoffs right now that deserve respect. I couldn’t do what they do and I doubt you could either. The team that wins the Stanley Cup will be a TEAM. One that plays together, wins together, and loses together. I think that is what makes Detroit an elite team. They know how to cooperate and give opportunities to players that are not being targeted. Datsyuk might not be scoring all he’s capable of but he’s taking the focus of star opposing players so that others can score. Zetterberg does the same thing. It’s all about creating opportunities for your team to capitalize on. That is how you win as a team and how your have EVERY member of a team’s name engraved on the Stanley Cup.

Posted by Doug on 05/19/09 at 03:21 PM ET

Brodeur’s stats are just as inflated as Osgood’s according to your claim.

Hi2u left wing lock and a core defensive group of Stevens, Neidermeyer, and Rafalski.

Hey guys the Penguins aren’t an elite team because they don’t have an elite left defenseman.  They are total lacking.

You are a pretty shitty writer.

Posted by Biggins from Detroit on 05/19/09 at 03:59 PM ET

Lets look at the numbers that really count;

Osgood, Chris
Reg Wins - 389 / Losses - 204 / G.AA - 2.47
Playoff Wins - 106 / Playoff Losses - 59 / Playoff G.AA - 2.11 / Cups - 3

Now lets compare them to other goaltenders;

Hasek, Dominik (Future Hall of Famer)
Reg Wins - 389 / Losses - 223 / G.AA - 2.20
Playoff Wins - 65 / Playoff Losses - 49 / Playoff G.AA - 2.02 / Cups - 1

not convinced, OK

Fuhr, Grant (Hall of Fame inductee 03’)
Reg Wins - 403 / Losses - 295 / G.AA - 3.38
Playoff Wins - 75 / Playoff Losses - 44 / Playoff G.AA - 2.92 / Cups - 5

To not consider Osgood as one of the best goalies is ridiculous. So he isn’t the personality of a Billy Smith or have the style of a Esposito. He is consistantly solid and elevates his game when it counts. Also, each of these goaltenders and other HOF’s all had the support of HOF caliber defensemen. Based upon these numbers I beleive IMHO that Osgood should be considered for the HOF. With 400 wins or another Cup I feel he is a lock.

Posted by Zilla on 05/19/09 at 04:14 PM ET

Apparently there aren’t alot of elite reporters either. LOL!

Posted by BYinDetroit from Motown on 05/19/09 at 04:19 PM ET

Wow, do you really believe all that garbage you just spewed out.  So what is the definition of an elite goalie???  I think most goalies get the “elite” title when they are on a crap team and win some games.  Really, this is how they get it.  So according to this logic, no goalie that wins the Stanley Cup on a good team is elite.  JS Giguere was elite because he led a crap Anaheim team to the Finals in 2003, with a super defensive system.  Same with Brodeur.  Same with Hasek in 1999.  Basically it is impossible to be a good goalie on a good team.  Unless you are Patrick Roy and have pads the size of dinosaurs.  If I had the choice of watching a team with an “elite” goalie on a crap team that can’t score or an offensive AND defensive powerhouse with an average NHL goalie, I would pick the latter every time.  As a fan I feel cheated when teams like the 2003 Ducks, 1996 Panthers, 1999 Sabres, 2002 Hurricanes, 2006 Oilers and so on make the Finals just because they have a hot goalie.  It’s amazing the crap Osgood has to put up with media-wise.  Does Osgood care???  No, he’ll just enjoy his Stanley Cups.  Do Wings fans care???  Nope, we’ll enjoy Ozzie take us to the Cup again.  Osgood is the PERFECT goalie for the Wings.  He doesn’t buckle under pressure, and he is a totally sane person.  He doesn’t dwell on the bad, he doesn’t care about what is said about him, he just goes out and plays and has fun with it.  Luongo wouldn’t stand a chance in Detroit.  Hasek barely could hack it.

Also what a kick in the sack to a guy like Cam Ward who has NEVER lost a playoff series.  Khabibulin who has stood on his head at times with Winnipeg/Phoenix only to lose because he was on a horrible team.  Then Fleury… He played great this year and made it to the Finals last year.  WHAT MAKES AN ELITE GOALIE.  Obviously it has nothing to do with winning the Cup because there are 5 stanley Cups left in these playoffs among goalies.  Also there is Fleury and Osgood who have lost in the Finals too.

Do you consider Jonas Hiller, Steve Mason, Martin Brodeur, Roberto Luongo, Tim Thomas, Evgeni Nabokov, and Henrik Lundqvuist all “elite”.  Well like you said, none of them are left so are they trully elite???  Really Kukla, get on clue on this topic.

Posted by Tom on 05/19/09 at 04:53 PM ET

Really Kukla, get on clue on this topic.

Just to clear up Paul’s name here, he didn’t write that.  The post was by “PuckStopsHere,” who I guess is “anonymous” like Dwayne, haa.

Posted by NHLJeff from Boston, MA on 05/19/09 at 04:56 PM ET

Really Kukla, get on clue on this topic.

Posted by Tom on 05/19/09 at 05:53 PM ET

Tom, you’re directing your vitriol to the wrong guy.  This blog is written by PuckStopsHere, not Paul Kukla.

Posted by SYF from Las Vegas, NV on 05/19/09 at 04:58 PM ET

I’ve never seen this site before, but I will make it a point to never look at it again.
This is one of the most asinine things I’ve ever read related to hockey. 

Consistently in every sport, the true measure of a player’s greatness is how he performs when it matters.  It doesn’t mean that a player is not great if he never wins a championship, but no one who knows anything about hockey could possibly be serious that winning multiple Stanley Cups as a goaltender is no big deal. 

Osgood’s regular season stats have been very good throughout his career.  But, his playoff stats are clearly among the best of all time.  He has won three Stanley Cups and is halfway to another one.  All that matters in the end is which of the remaining four goaltenders gets his name on the Cup this year.  Three of the renmaining four have already earned that honor, and they deserve credit not scorn.

Posted by Smarky from Washington, DC on 05/19/09 at 05:39 PM ET

What a horrible article.....do you even watch hockey?

Posted by Nick on 05/19/09 at 05:43 PM ET

Hey Jonas Hiller was amazing for the Anaheim Ducks, he was an amazing goalie maybe not elite but he was really good.
this isn’t an opinion,its a statistical fact. first year playing in the SCP.
Who cares won won what seasons ago. we’re in 2009
Judging someone by something that was done in the past is kind of stupid, so they did it ok its done. over .move on. time and space to grow. or get worse.

Posted by >>No<< from Oxnard California on 05/19/09 at 06:41 PM ET

I think a number of GM’s in the league have decided that elite goalies don’t necessarily pay off in terms of playoff success and that they get better value from a younger or less expensive goalie.  It’s clear to me now that Osgood is never going to get the respect he deserves, but another way to evaluate the level of goalies in the final four is to ask whether or not they get invited to their respective country’s Olympic camp.

3 of the 4 merit at least a good chance.  Assuming that national team GM’s will only go after elite goalies since they don’t need to manage a salary cap, I’d argue that an invitation to a national camp (not necessarily making the team) should be good enough to be considered elite.

By that measure the only goalie of the remaining four who’s pretty sure he’s not getting an invite is Osgood, mainly b/c he’s accepted how he’s viewed outside his locker room.

Who knows if Khabibulin, Ward or Fleury will make their Olympic teams but they all have won at the world level and all are deserving of an invitation to summer camp.

http://tenderslounge.wordpress.com/2009/05/13/2010-winter-olympics-goalie-preview-canada/

Posted by TendersLounge on 05/19/09 at 07:17 PM ET

Goaltending doesn’t always win you a Cup.

“Elite” goaltending alone will not win you the Cup.  (see Kolzig 1998, Hasek 1998, Hextall, 1987)

Some goalies are more talented than the ones who win Cups but never have the circumstances to do so. 

Winning the Cup does not make you a better goalie, or even a great goalie:

http://brodeurisafraud.blogspot.com/2008/09/vanbiesbrouck-vs-vernon.html

When you finish shrieking in horror and outrage at the blog’s name, try reading the article and then clicking around .  You might learn something, who knows.

And since the author of this blog chooses to have himself represented by an avatar of Eric Cartman on a tricycle, I think it’s safe to take that as a fair representation and indictment of his IQ.

Posted by nu on 05/19/09 at 08:06 PM ET

Did the Wings play tonite?  How’d Osgood do?

Nice post.  Good reaction.  Having second thoughts?  None you’d admit to.

Posted by IwoCPO from Washington, DC on 05/19/09 at 10:58 PM ET

Wow, are you really as stupid as this article makes you out to be?

The remaining goalies are mid-level goalies at best.  That is an alarming realization.  How can these be the best teams in the league when none have elite goaltending?

Simple...because they won 16 playoff games and won the cup.  It’s called a TEAM.  If only elite goaltending mattered, then the NHL would consist only of shootouts.

As I have written in the past parity is a problem come Stanley Cup playoff time.  The playoffs are supposed to be epic battles between elite teams.  If none of the remaining teams have elite goaltenders then none of the remaining teams are elite teams.  Detroit may come the closest to elite status, but they fail with Chris Osgood in net.  The fan is cheated.  Fans don’t get to see epic playoff battles between elite teams anymore because the NHL structure prevents the formation of elite teams.

You want elite teams to be made up of the best players and playing in the finals.  If you don’t think that’s what we have now in the conference finals, then go watch baseball.  You obviously don’t know anything about hockey.

Regular season stats and voting midway through the season doesn’t mean anything in the playoffs.  That’s the reason players stats reset to 0 after the end of the regular season.  That is ridiculous to believe that a goalie needs to have an amazing save percentage to be considered elite.  It’s about stopping pucks and stepping up when your team needs to.

We get it, you don’t like Gary Bettman or the job he has done.  While he may not be the best commish in the world, he instituted a salary cap, created parity, and saved the sport.  Without it, teams could not compete with “elite” teams that win the cup every freakin year.  Noone wants to see that, except you.  Parity is what makes sports great.  Every year your team has a shot as long as it is managed correctly.

Now go clean yourself up, I’m sure you enjoyed creating this ruckus alittle too much.

Posted by Mack Daddy from Pittsburgh, PA on 05/20/09 at 06:52 AM ET

I think my IQ went down about 50 points after reading this drivel.
LETS GO PENS!

Posted by AnastasiaBeaverhausen on 05/20/09 at 07:09 AM ET

This is the biggest load of crap I have ever read. You consider an “elite” goalie one with the best regular season statistics/awards/etc. Utter crap. Your logic is flawed and your opinions, I can only gather, are put out there to see what kind of a reaction you can get.

I’ll take a big money, playoff-tested, cup-winning goalie over your “elite” goalies any day of the week.

Posted by PatRiggin on 05/20/09 at 08:01 AM ET

I guess so much for

“he[Osgood] is not the type to steal a few games for you.”

He just stole Game 2, so stfu.  Meanwhile all of the “elite” goalies are golfing.  I’d rather have a great playoff goalie than perennial great regular season goalies but playoff chokers (ie Nabokov, Luongo) any day of the week.

Posted by John W. on 05/20/09 at 10:57 AM ET

You’re a moron.  So why don’t we just vote for the best teams to play in the playoffs, instead of having them actually compete to get there? ... moron.

Posted by hullj from Sixburgh, PA on 05/20/09 at 11:10 AM ET

Given up defending yourself?  Maybe rethinking big guy?

Posted by moore00 from the Ohio State University on 05/20/09 at 11:16 AM ET

How can you defend yourself against a troop of people who lead their posts with words like “moron” and “crap?” The bulk of the above posts are hardly product of hockey intelligentsia. The best way to make trolls go away is to ignore them.

And since I have no such compunction, I’m going to respond of course.

Posted by Mojo Tooth on 05/20/09 at 12:16 PM ET

A friend sent me this link with the tag line that it was a ridiculous article.

She didn’t say how ridiculous.

Whatever your logic, there is one thing that matters in hockey my friend.

You may have heard of it. It’s called The Stanley Cup.

Chris Osgood has been a member of 3 Stanley Cup winning teams and the starting goaltender for 2 of them. His team is currently up 2-0, and in all likelihood headed for another Stanley Cup final appearance.

In other words - he just wins.

I don’t know about you, but in my book - Winning is elite.

Now, I just need to figure out how to get the 5 minutes of my life back that I just wasted reading this garbage.

Posted by Jim Brochowski from Columbus, OH on 05/20/09 at 12:42 PM ET

How can you defend yourself against a troop of people who lead their posts with words like “moron” and “crap?”

Hey mojodouche, this moron wouldn’t have to defend himself if he had just used his little pea brain before writing this illogical tripe.

As has been pointed out above, mojodouche, regular season stats do not an elite player make. The only things that matter in professional sports are the championships. Tiger is the best active golfer in the world, but he hasn’t won the most “regular” tournaments, he has won the most majors among active pros. Dan Marino set all sorts of passing records, but so what, Ben Rothlisber has two Super Bowl rings. Marino would trade every one of those records for that ring, but he can’t because he couldn’t get it done in the playoffs.

Ozzie just wins and wins and wins. And he will be in the Hockey HOF, and douchenozzles like you and phuckstopshere will just have to deal with it.

Oh, and last night all Ozzie did is stand on his head and steal that game for the Wings. A pivotal game that would either tie the series or put a noose on the Hawks. But for a fluky pass that deflected off Ericsson’s skate, it would not have even gone into OT. Is that elite enough for you?

Posted by CaptainDennisPolonich from Mojitoville on 05/20/09 at 12:43 PM ET

The reason people are using “moron” to start their posts is mostly because of the lack of anything based in reality that this article is written on.  I could stay on here picking apart your article, quoting illogical statement after illogical statement, but I feel like I’ve wasted enough of my time on here as is.  With that said I’ll reduce myself to insulting you in a nonsensical rant that can only be described as ridiculous.  Everyone that has read this article is now dumber.  What you have typed is not even close to anything that has to do with legitimate hockey.  As far as I am concerned I just read a horrible fiction novel.  It looks like you gave a five year old with downs a keyboard and he started smashing his head off of it.  While everyone is entitled to their opinions, you have lost that privilege entirely.  You now have to, figuratively, sit in a corner with your hand raised and wait for another, more intelligent blogger, to call on you and allow you to speak.  You will be awarded no points and may god have mercy on your soul.

Posted by JB from Pittsburgh, PA and intelligent hockey fans everywh on 05/20/09 at 12:59 PM ET

You could assemble the best players in the entire NHL and they could still fail if they don’t play as a TEAM.

yep.  just ask the Rangers.  if the definition of being an elite team is that you have elite players, then being an elite team does not assure victory.  I think the definition of an elite team is one that has consistent success for many years.  Detroit fits that bill perfectly.

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 05/20/09 at 01:05 PM ET

From 1980 to 1992, the stanley-winning goaltenders were Billy Smith, Grant Fuhr, Patrick Roy, Mike Vernon, Bill Ranford, and Tom Barasso.  Only Roy was “elite,” or even close to being so.  If an elite goaltender is necessary to form an “elite team,” then, by your reckoning, every team that won during that period other than the 85-86 Canadiens is outrightly disqualified from that title.  Yet, by their regular season performance, that team was no better than the second worst to win a cup over that time.

You apparently include Brodeur in your list of “elite,” though his numbers say he has merely been above average.  Take him out, and only six of the past 28 cups (this year makes 29) have gone to teams with elite netminders, and including Brodeur still leaves the figure at less than 1/3.

“Elite” is a word that you can define in whatever manner you wish, and if you decide to define “elite teams” as including elite goaltenders, then that proposition becomes true by definition.  Just understand that you are defining elite so as to exclude a large majority of teams which have actually been successful over the previous three decades.

Posted by Brian W. on 05/20/09 at 02:48 PM ET

This is hands down the worst article I’ve ever read.  Please remove this writer from commenting on anything regarding hockey, he obviously isn’t too well versed.

Posted by Bill from Pgh, PA on 05/20/09 at 03:10 PM ET

The level of fail present in this article astounds me.

Posted by Irrelevant on 05/20/09 at 04:36 PM ET

The level of fail present in this article astounds me.

elite fail?

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 05/20/09 at 08:43 PM ET

Seriously?  This has to be written tongue in cheek.  If so, well done sir.  If not then you got to get your head out of the stats book and actually watch a game or two.

If none of the remaining teams have elite goaltenders then none of the remaining teams are elite teams.  Detroit may come the closest to elite status, but they fail with Chris Osgood in net

I guess the Oilers of the 80s weren’t elite either with that Grant Fuhr fellow in net.  If only they had Patrick Roy.

Right a team with 9 straight 100 point seasons is not elite.  Pray tell what then is an elite team?

Posted by furcifer on 05/21/09 at 10:51 AM ET

Moron. It would be pretty easy to site why I think your article is ridiculous, especially when it comes to two goalies under the age of 25 and their immaculate playoff records currently engaged in the ECFS or maybe those other two hardened veteran goalies sporting 4 Cups between them out West, but I don’t want to sound redundant.  I just want to point out, merely from the perspective of the 62nd person to comment on your trash, that not one person comes close to agreeing with poorly thought out “tripe” (good word, Pharazon). As you sit fapping to all these responses and licking your computer screen to articles about Patrick Roy maybe coaching the Avalanche next year, I can only hope you realize how dumb you truly are.

IF the Avalanche get Roy to coach dem, they is gonnaz be elites. Roy is elites, therefore BUdaj will become elite...herrrr.

Stop watching hockey.

Posted by Chummy from New Castle on 05/21/09 at 11:41 AM ET

What a joke.
And to say that the salary cap is the reason these goalies are the ones still playing..
Chris Osgood won cups way before the salary cap was ever thought of.

Brodeur, Luongo and Thomas were all large reasons for their teams failure to advance, with the weak goals they gave up in their game 7’s.
Meanwhile guys like Osgood and Cam Ward step up and play their best in those situations. And they’re not elite goalies? Please. In the playoffs they are as elite as they come.

Detroit is an elite team. No question about it. Chicago and Pittsburgh are maybe not there yet, but they might be on their way. Carolina is a surprise that they’ve gotten this far, but that just makes it more fun.

Anyway, this year’s playoffs has been the best one in many years, so I don’t see what PuckStopsHere’s problem is.

Posted by Rob on 05/21/09 at 01:19 PM ET

If you meant this to be funny, you failed.

If you meant this to be serious....EPIC FAIL.

I like the comments here.....they prove that just about everyone agrees that your version of ‘logic’ is completely gibberish.  To be Elite requires you to have an Elite goaltender? LOL! My old Critical Thinking teacher would have told you to get the hell out of her class.

Seriously....why people who run the site allow you to write?  Are they as clueless as you are?

Posted by LetsGoWings from Michigan on 05/21/09 at 01:22 PM ET

Yeah Osgood’s stats aren’t as impressive as guys like Brodeur, Luongo, Hiller. But if these goalkeepers were so “elite” then why aren’t they in the playoffs? Why has the weak-link Chris Osgood won three cups while elite superstar Roberto Luongo has never advanced past the second round? 

In the regular season, We’ve seen Thomas and Hiller make anatomical-defying saves while Osgood has let in 70 ft blasts. We’ve seen Henrik Lundquist single-handedly steal a game while Osgood lets in a bad goal to allow the other team to win late.

Then why have all these goalies fizzled in the playoffs? And why has Osgood won more playoff games than any other goaltender in Red Wings history? Why have these goalies been golfing the same time Osgood is skating around the ice with the Stanley Cup over his head?

Osgood does something these other goalies don’t do...he makes sure his team is ahead when the game is over. He makes a big save late to preserve the lead. He stops the barrage of shots to kill a 5-on-3. He makes all the saves in the clutch. He does everything he needs to to make sure the TEAM walks out with a W.

Posted by RedFX from Nashville on 05/21/09 at 02:01 PM ET

You are a Moron!!!  i’m dumber now after reading this article and will never come to this website again.

Actually thanks....now I don’t have to read your nonsense anymore.

Posted by Todd on 05/21/09 at 02:05 PM ET

Thanks. I’m now much, much stupider for having read this article. I would’ve killed less brain cells downing a flagon of Mezcal.

Also, if you’re going to pose an an actual writer - get a better grasp of English.

Posted by Bruce on 05/21/09 at 02:24 PM ET

You’re a *#$%@& retard. Stop writing.

Posted by Saus on 05/21/09 at 02:32 PM ET

If Luongo and Brodeur were so elite then why did they blow it for their teams in the playoffs?  I will take Stanley Cups over individual awards any day.

Posted by Andrea from Home on 05/21/09 at 03:05 PM ET

I’m sorry, but if you don’t consider Detroit an elite team, then I wonder what team is elite? The team who one last year, who still have a chance to win this year and have won a total of four in the past eleven season. Do you realize that if the Wings win this year too, they will be 5 for 12, which is nearly 50% of the past 12 seasons? Are the Sharks elite after losing in the first round? What about Vancouver, who lost to the team the Wings are being 2-0 in the series? What about the Devils who lost first round? It’s funny how Brodeur even has the same amount of Stanley Cup rings as Osgood, yet Osgood is not elite. Hell, he may even pass him this year.

Please, do your homework next time.

Posted by Four on 05/21/09 at 03:13 PM ET

PuckStopsHere,you are basically a clown,and this entire post is a joke.Sounds like your team fails to win the Cup year after year. Osgood has backstopped 2 championships,Top 10 in playoff wins,and number one for the Wings.his numbers prove he is elite.

You might get lucky and win one Cup,but when you do it more than once it’s not luck.Do yourself a favor and don’t blog anymore,better for everyone to assume your a clown,then to open your mouth and prove it.

Posted by Go WIngs on 05/21/09 at 03:50 PM ET

I suspect what he is getting at is no elite teams like the Gretzky led Oilers or the runs by Montreal. The problem is the the bulk of those Montreal runs predate the modern NHL (or turn on on single group of player in Edmonton.  I still not sure why Fuhr is ‘elite’ - given the foibles around any one single award year (and Fuhr has only one one award and one all Star) and the fact he played behind a great team. The only conclusion I can say is that there have thus been no elite teams since the 70s - well before the salary cap era.

Posted by Paul on 05/21/09 at 03:54 PM ET

My friend, what do you consider an elite team? If the four remaining aren’t elite teams then which of the teams who are out are elite? Then think, if they’re out elite then why are they no longer in the run?

Osgood is no Luongo but he’s proven to be elite by getting the job done despite the adversity people like you have put on him. Think again buddy.

Posted by Crov from Windsor on 05/21/09 at 04:42 PM ET

I should point out I was talking about my understanding of PSH’s logic not my own in the above post

Posted by Paul on 05/21/09 at 05:09 PM ET

Even as a Detroit fan for 40 years and a huge Ozzie fan since Hockey came back to Denver, elite as a concept is subjective so I can’t attack you for your opinions.

I can tell you this

You can stop all show stoppers you want, one may even steal a game here or there but that doesn’t make you elite if you can’t stop the easier ones when the pressure is on.

Osgood may not be elite but he sure knows what it takes to stop the puck when it counts. I’ll take that over a elite status any day.

He did have a bad yet winning year but someday it will be said that he was such a play off goalie that even after his worse season ever, he rebounded and led his team in a return to the cup with style.

Now that’s elite playoff goalie if you ask me.

Posted by Jim from Denver,Co on 05/21/09 at 07:08 PM ET

You know you wrote a piece of crap when Pens, Canes, Wings and Hawks fans stop bashing each other to bash you.

BTW the cruise company called your Failboat came into port today

Posted by FailBoat9000 from Failville on 05/22/09 at 03:49 AM ET

Man. If you dudes are so hyped up about how horrible this guy’s posts are, why bother even reading them, let alone sit here and biiiiiiiiiiiiiitch about it?? You need to SERIOUSLY get a life if you are able to spent hours in front of a computer complaining about a post on this dude’s opinion on what’s happening. 

You guys are lame. GTFO.

Posted by phuuuuk_hockey from Michigan on 05/26/09 at 08:18 PM ET

Fleury is an elite goaltender.  He’s still only 23 years old and he’s won 40 games already in a season and is about to play in his 2nd Stanley Cup Finals.  It appears you base your argument off of regular season stats.  No other way to explain how you can determine Tim Thomas and Jonas Hiller as elite.  What have they ever done in the playoffs.  Tim Thomas played for one of the most defensive teams in the NHL that was also at the top of the league offensively yet got beat by the Hurricanes .... Fleury on the other hand is the goalie responsible for sweeping the Hurricanes who beat your elite Broduer and elite Thomas.  Put Fleury on a “defensive” team and he’s going to get you 12 shutouts and a 1.50 GAA, but he plays on a high risk - high reward offensive powerhouse.  Yet he still takes them to the Cup Finals two years in a row with very, very good numbers.  He has been brilliant when it matters most in the playoffs in the last two years making key saves at crucial points in the game.  Fleury is a goalie that if he sees the puck, he stops it.  Wrap-arounds and re-directs get by him and shots that go off the posts or cross bars.  Otherwise he’s as good as any goalie in the league.  He should be on the Olympic team for Canada.  He’s not ready to start for them, but he should be there for “grooming”.  Luongo and Broduer should be 1-2.

Posted by Run TMc on 05/27/09 at 09:59 AM ET

Ozzie has stopped 62 of 64 shots through the first two games of the Stanley Cup Finals.  I just wish he were an elite goalie.

Posted by dash_pinched on 05/31/09 at 10:27 PM ET