You haven’t blown out your pilot lights yet?

Posted by TeamDub from The gratch. on 07/07/09 at 06:19 AM ET

They play against the best players on their opposition and do not stop them from scoring.

The adjusted plus / minus stat you are using doesn’t support the argument you are making.  You say they are failed shutdown men, but this stat simply shows that they get scored on more than they score.  Nothing to do with shutting down the other team.  In Detroit, we don’t expect a goal almost ever out of the Draper line, but we do expect them to be scrappy and hard to play against.  Inherently, that line is going to have a poor plus/minus.  Maybe the other lines get scored on much more easily, but score more, which would allow them to have a better plus minus. 

Once again, a shit argument.

Posted by moore00 from Columbus, OH/Grand Rapids, MI on 07/07/09 at 08:02 AM ET

Actually, you can ignore my previous statement, I mistook this version of the adjusted plus minus with another version I had read.

Posted by moore00 from Columbus, OH/Grand Rapids, MI on 07/07/09 at 08:04 AM ET

It is true that shut down type players tend to do poorly in +/- adjustments.  This is the nature of their job.  They are on the ice against the toughest players in the league and they are not expected to score.  That said, those that fare worst in the league are failing at that job.  Those players that tend to wind up with poor adjusted +/- ratings that fit in those situations such as Draper, Brind’Amour and Madden have all noticeably lost a step when you watch them play and they are clearly performing well below the levels when they achieved success (Selke Trophies).  These metrics show that they are well below the levels they were at when they won these awards.  They are failing in the roles that they were once among the best in the league at performing.

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 07/07/09 at 08:16 AM ET

I do think that you have to put in quality of competition in as well to truly have an accurate measure.

Posted by moore00 from Columbus, OH/Grand Rapids, MI on 07/07/09 at 10:18 AM ET

I do think that you have to put in quality of competition in as well to truly have an accurate measure.
Posted by moore00 from Grand Rapids on 07/07/09 at 11:18 AM ET

Who wants to volunteer for figuring that metric out?  Anyone?  Bueller?  Bueller?

Posted by Animal Drew from A Nightmare on Helm Street on 07/07/09 at 10:23 AM ET

I do think that you have to put in quality of competition in as well to truly have an accurate measure.

yep, these adjusted stats are garbage.

I would, however, like to see some sort of penalty-kill +/- stat calculated. some players for whatever reason aren’t great at 5-on-5 defense, but excel on the penalty kill.

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 07/07/09 at 10:37 AM ET

They are failing in the roles that they were once among the best in the league at performing.

let’s take Draper as an example.  any team in the league would want him on their PK.  failed shutdown player?  hardly.

Posted by PaulinMiamiBeach on 07/07/09 at 10:42 AM ET

You are right that these numbers have had no attempt to correct for quality of competition, but it wouldn’t do much to help Kris Draper’s case if they were.  Here are the Detroit Red Wings sorted for quality ofcompetition.  Kris Draper is way down on the list.  The only forward who spent the majority of the year in the NHL who is below him is Kirk Maltby.

It is out of touch with today to suggest Draper is a valued penalty killer that any team would want.  Detroit had the 25th best penalty kill in the league last year with a 78.3% success rate on the penalty kill.  That is the worst of all playoff teams last year.  As the forward who süpent the most time on the penalty kill, I would give Draper more plame for that failure than any other individual player.  We can use the behind the net numkbers to see his ajusted +/- in 4 on 5 situations and its bad.  Here are all the players who played at least 1 minute per 60 on the penalty kill.  Its a long list.  You will find Draper nearer to the bottom with a -2.78 adjusted rating. 

It’s nice you Detroit fans are loyal, but Kris Draper is no longer the player he once was.  He is a failed shutdown guy who provided little value to Detroit last year.  He should probably be replaced with a better player next year.  The Wings may do that and let him go out to pasture the way Chris Chelios or Darren McCarty did this year - i.e he won’t play much and won’t be asked back the year after.

Posted by PuckStopsHere on 07/07/09 at 01:48 PM ET