The Puck Stops Here
Next entry: Zone Starts
Previous entry: Top 20 Adjusted Corsi Rates
Worst 20 Corsi Rates
by PuckStopsHere on 08/08/09 at 10:24 AM ET
Comments (17)
In this summer’s look at sabermetrics and hockey, I have been looking at the Corsi Number. The Corsi Number is the difference in the number of shots directed at the net (shots on goal, blocked shots and missed shots) taken by a team while a given player is on the ice and those taken by his opponents in five on five situations. I recently gave the top 20 adjusted Corsi rates. This is a list of players who excelled in the roles that they played last season. Today, I am listing the worst 20 adjusted Corsi rates. The adjustment method involves calculating a player’s Corsi rate while he is on and off the ice and subtracting them to get the adjusted rate attributed to a given player. This is similar to the adjustment that behind the net does with on/off ice adjusted +/- ratings.
Here are the 20 worst adjusted Corsi rates from 2008/09 among players with 50 or more games played:
Rank | Player | Team | Corsi |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Ryan Johnson | Van | -23.1 |
| 2 | Kris Draper | Det | -22.1 |
| 3 | Travis Moen | SJS | -20.9 |
| 4 | Rob Niedermayer | Ana | -20.6 |
| 5 | John Madden | NJD | -20.3 |
| 6 | Jay Pandolfo | NJD | -19.9 |
| 7 | Dan Hinote | StL | -19.4 |
| 8 | Darcy Hordichuk | Van | -19.3 |
| 9 | Boyd Gordon | Was | -18.7 |
| 10 | Sami Pahlsson | Chi | -18.3 |
| 11 | Colton Orr | NYR | -18.1 |
| 12 | Lauri Korpikoski | NYR | -17.7 |
| 13 | Zach Stortini | Edm | -16.8 |
| 14 | Kurt Sauer | Phx | -16.4 |
| 15 | Mike Commodore | CBJ | -16.3 |
| 16 | Raitis Ivanans | LAK | -15.7 |
| 17 | Tim Jackman | NYI | -15.4 |
| 18 | Cam Janssen | StL | -15.4 |
| 19 | Brandon Sutter | Car | -15.4 |
| 20 | Niclas Havelid | NJD | -15.0 |
This list appears over-represented by shut down forwards who struggled last season (such as Kris Draper and John Madden). This is in contrast to the counting stat adjustment which is over-populated by shut down defensemen. Neither push puck possession on their teams, but since defencemen tend to get more ice time they tend to lead in a counting stat format, while the forwards have worse overall rates. Nine players appear on both worst Corsi lists after adjustment. They are Kris Draper, Rob Niedermayer, John Madden, Jay Pandolfo, Boyd Gordon, Colton Orr, Lauri Korpikoski, Kurt Sauer, Mike Commodore and Tim Jackman. Three players on this adjustment list are not eligible for the counting stat adjustment since it requires players to play on only one team during the season and they were traded (Travis Moen, Sami Pahlsson and Niclas Havelid). The other players who appear on this list are players who had limited roles on their respective teams (to not get enough ice time to appear on the counting stat list) and failed. Ryan Johnson of the Vancouver Canucks leads this group. He probably played himself out of the NHL last season.
This list is by no means a list of the worst twenty players in the NHL. Many of the shutdown forwards, though they did not have good seasons, are made to look worse because of high calibre opposition. Any player appearing on this list who did not play against top opposition last season did not belong in the NHL. Many of the players in that group will soon find themselves without NHL jobs.
Filed in: | The Puck Stops Here | Permalink
Tags: Kris+Draper, Kurt+Sauer, Ryan+Johnson,
Comments
These numbers are 5 on 5 play only. Penalty kill and power play are already excluded.
Posted by PuckStopsHere on 08/08/09 at 01:23 PM ET
Any player appearing on this list who did not play against top opposition last season did not belong in the NHL.
Drapes didn’t play against top oppostion last year. Are you saying he did not belong in the NHL?
Posted by Itrusteddrrahmani from Nyc by way of A2 on 08/08/09 at 02:57 PM ET
Last year Kris Draper didn"t play well enough to justify keeping his NHL job.
Posted by PuckStopsHere on 08/08/09 at 03:18 PM ET
Last year Kris Draper didn"t play well enough to justify keeping his NHL job.
You need to watch more Red Wing hockey….
Draper is no charity case.
The last 2 regular seasons their W/L record was worse when he
was out of the line-up with injuries, than when their top Defensemen
were out with injuries.
Posted by HockeyTownTodd on 08/08/09 at 03:52 PM ET
Ryan Johnson of the Vancouver Canucks leads this group. He probably played himself out of the NHL last season.
Bold statement by you. Have you even watched a Canucks game? I don’t care about his Corsi stats. Ryan Johnson is nicknamed BALLS because he is a gutsy shot-blocking wizard and a consummate team player. He isn’t going anywhere.
Posted by Zanstorm from Smithers, BC on 08/08/09 at 03:56 PM ET
Ryan Johnson is a great example of how a bad player who lacks NHL skills stays in the NHL. He is a hard working player who the team and fans love. They are so happy that he is clearly working so hard that they overlook the fact tht he cannot play hockey at an NHL level.
As for Kris Draper, he is surviving on reputation. He was a very good player in 2003 or so. Today, he plays against weak competition and does so poorly. The Red Wings had the worst penalty kill of any playoff team this year and Draper would be the one guy who deserves the most blame for it. I think like Darren McCarty or Chris Chelios in 08/09, he is back for one final year where he will be not given any significant role on the ice and allowed to sail off into the sunset when the season ends.
Posted by PuckStopsHere on 08/08/09 at 05:36 PM ET
Your on crack. Ryan Johnson is a great player. He can play hockey at a NHL level easily. He may not be a pure goal scorer, but he was great in the face off circle, and is fearless when it comes to blocking shots. He lays down big hits, and DOES HIS ROLE effectively. I don`t know how you can say he does not belong in the NHL.
Posted by Luongo-is-my-hero on 08/08/09 at 08:52 PM ET
oh boy, i can sleep at night now, more useless stats to prove nothing. my hat’s off to you, dude, you have created the most irrelevant posting ever here at kk. congrats.
Posted by hector on 08/08/09 at 08:57 PM ET
As for Kris Draper, he is surviving on reputation. He was a very good player in 2003 or so. Today, he plays against weak competition and does so poorly. The Red Wings had the worst penalty kill of any playoff team this year and Draper would be the one guy who deserves the most blame for it. I think like Darren McCarty or Chris Chelios in 08/09, he is back for one final year where he will be not given any significant role on the ice and allowed to sail off into the sunset when the season ends.
Posted by PuckStopsHere on 08/08/09 at 06:36 PM ET
Draper was injured and played in all of 8 games in the playoffs. As for regular season stats, everyone on the wings, save for Lidstrom, Datsyuk and Lilja, had a horrible season defensively before shaking off the cup hangover in the playoffs. Draper never got a full chanceto show the regular season was a fluke and did play better in the handfull of games he participated in.
Posted by Chris in A^2 from Nyquist Puck Control on 08/09/09 at 01:09 AM ET
hey, you should make another post about corsi ratings. you haven’t done enough of them.
PLEASE STOP WRITING
Posted by chase on 08/09/09 at 04:03 AM ET
Last year Kris Draper didn"t play well enough to justify keeping his NHL job.
Posted by PuckStopsHere on 08/08/09 at 04:18 PM ET
No comment.
Well…I will say I’ll bet you didn’t watch more than 5 Wings games, regular season, so you have nothing to base that statement on other than your summer-long infatuation with Corsi numbers, which I’ll never look at again or give any credibility to simply because you do.
Nice job riling up Wing fans, which seems to be your ulterior or just plain blatant, motive in nearly every post.
Posted by IwoCPO from Sunny San Diego, bitches on 08/09/09 at 08:20 AM ET
Nice job riling up Wing fans, which seems to be your ulterior or just plain blatant, motive in nearly every post.
It gets him hits and views. I know that I, at least, check his post each time he puts one up for no greater reason than morbid curiosity as to how he gets his anti-wings shots in on this one- and I’m about as anti-conspiracy theory as a Wings fan can get.
I’ve seen, in other realms of the “blogosphere”, the mentality that hits and comments are all that matters. And there’s some validity to that if you’re getting advertiser dollars for hits and/or based on comments (to the point where I know of reviled bloggers who litter their posts with mispelled words to generate the, “Hey, idiot, it’s spell xylaphone” comments- and this is very, very sad.).
I don’t know if the bloggers here are compensated in that manner, or at all, but that or some sort of perverse pride at generating comments, even at the cost of credibility amongst your readers, is the only logical explanation I can see for TPSH’s posts any more.
Posted by shanetx on 08/09/09 at 09:55 AM ET
The only reason he writes stupid shit like this is to get hits. He knows that noone will read anything else he writes if it is not controversial. How many articles on this stupid corsi shit is he going to write.
Funny thing, is he is wrong just about everything he writes except for when hes quoting stats. GUESS thats why he loves this CORSI stuff, he CAN’t ever BE WRONG NOW CAN HE? Too bad stats don’t say everything there has to say about a player.
Posted by Luongo-is-my-hero on 08/09/09 at 12:21 PM ET
All these people saying Draper played well have no evidence to support their conclusion. They claim that they watched him play, yet if you ask them to remember any specifics, they can’t tell you anything. The whole point is that you have no way of actually evaluating every single shift for Draper and remembering those results all in your head.
Don’t tell me Draper can still play because you watched the games. Show me some evidence to prove that he actually made a difference on the shifts he played. I don’t trust that your generalizations are factually based on observations of his play.
Posted by wilford brimley from detroit on 08/09/09 at 03:14 PM ET
You already posted the same thing with unmatching numbers last week.
Worst Corsi Rates
Worst Corsi Rates
Posted by steve on 08/09/09 at 11:09 PM ET
Add a Comment
Please limit embedded image or media size to 575 pixels wide.
Add your own avatar by joining Kukla's Korner, or logging in and uploading one in your member control panel.
Captchas bug you? Join KK or log in and you won't have to bother.
Commenting is not available in this weblog entry.
Most Recent Blog Posts
Missing Other League All Star Games
Top Defenceman So Far This Season
Karlsson Top Offensive Defenceman
About The Puck Stops Here
The Puck Stops Here was founded during the 2004/05 lockout as a place to rant about hockey. The original site contains over 1000 posts, some of which were also published on FoxSports.com.
Who am I?
A diehard hockey fan.
Why am I blogging?
I want to.
Why are you reading it?
???
Email: .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
When learning from experts it’s best to learn personally from them, or from their blog. We can provide that with poker lessons blog, your home to learn poker personally.
Do you get shocked from the luck in the game of poker? Stop getting shocked and start being a Poker Shoker
Donate to Kukla’s Korner
I must be missing something here, and in your previous CORSI post.
My impression is they are pretty useless numbers…
and should be redone excluding PP and PK ice time.
A separate set of number consisting of only PK ice time,
and only PP ice time….probably more useful regarding evaluations.
Posted by HockeyTownTodd on 08/08/09 at 12:41 PM ET