Restricting ticket sales is bull-jive. It can potentially hurt the league as a whole, and at the very least, tarnishes it’s reputation.  “Premium tickets” for games when high-profile opponents come to town are just as bad.

And the NHL is not the only league guilty of this. Is it that hard to be fair with fans?

Posted by Nate A from Detroit-ish on 03/01/09 at 09:53 PM ET

Tony, I was at the first Pens vs. Caps game in D.C. this year just a few weeks ago.  I have to tell you that they didn’t do a good job at keeping Pens fans out of the door.  There were far more than 1,000 of us.  Yes, there were fewer than in previous years ... I have been to one in D.C. for the last 3 yrs ... but I’d say at least 3,000 of us were in attendance.

Posted by Chris Gates on 03/01/09 at 10:16 PM ET

Yeah, I also forgot to mention Chris that some single tickets were released prior to the game as well….

But it’s good to hear that there were still 3,000 Pens fans there….

Posted by Tony F from Virginia Beach, VA on 03/01/09 at 10:19 PM ET

I get the feeling the Penguins fanbase is becoming like the Steelers.  Did you see the game today?  I’m sure you did.  There were tons of Pens fans in Dallas.

It’s surely great to see.

Posted by Chris Gates on 03/01/09 at 10:36 PM ET

I have to say the Caps and their fans behave like a minor league outfit a lot of the time. What if you restricted sales to only white people…that would be a huge problem wouldn’t it…? In Boston a couple thousand Habs fans show up for every Canadiens game. There are usually insults and fights in the stands. We love it!!!!!!

Posted by kevin from boston on 03/02/09 at 08:20 AM ET

I don’t see the problem with letting the away team invade your arena. As a Pens fan we see it happen every time Toronto comes to town. Toronto is close enough that its almost easier for some people to get tickets to an away game in Pittsburgh as it is to get tickets to a home game.
If They did this for a playoff game though I’d understand it. I mean, I wouldn’t want an entire arena filled with Pens fans while the Pens kill the Caps, like they do every time the two teams play in post-season games. It’d be pretty embarassing.

Posted by kstewy16 on 03/02/09 at 11:04 AM ET

The Caps are getting greedy, plain and simple.  I would almost wish that they go back to being a crappy last place team because then I could get tickets at a reasonable price.  I am a hockey fan.  But the Caps are setting a precedent where other teams are going to lock fans out of their barns.  This will obviously hurt the booster clubs and other fans that travel for games (I’ve been to Cali, AZ, MSG, JLA, Mellon and others just because I like to watch games in other cities). 

The Premier pricing is horrific.  The cheapest seat in the house last year had a face value of $10.  Now you can only get it for that price if you buy a season ticket.  Otherwise, over $40 for a regular game, $50 for ‘premier’.  What a rip off.  I’m not going to overpay to see the product, even if it is Ovechkin, the best player in the league.  I just don’t have the money these days…

Posted by Sep from Maryland on 03/02/09 at 01:17 PM ET

Being a long-time DC sports fan, it’s always been a problem in every sport given the transplant nature of the city.  I’m sorry, but I doubt Pitt or Buffalo fans have experience with this (with rare exceptions being games against Detroit or Toronto, respectively).  No one moves from a place like DC to Pitt or Buffalo, but the vice versa obviously happens.  And I can tell you it takes from the home ice advantage for our boys, which is a serious problem.

Until you experience this on a regular basis, you simply cannot understand why owners, management, fans are starting to institute this screening process.  I for one think it’s about time.

Posted by Ben from New York on 03/02/09 at 01:25 PM ET

Valid point Ben, but at the same time, one could argue that it’s flat-out discrimination….

Posted by Tony F from Virginia Beach, VA on 03/02/09 at 01:35 PM ET

I saw a few ads on craigslist that said, “I will not sell these tickets to Pens fans, and I can promise that if a Pens fan buys them, you will NOT have a good time at the game.”

Posted by noize43 on 03/02/09 at 01:42 PM ET

The way I see it, a fan can do whatever he or she wants with the tickets.  They paid for them and own them, thus having the ability to deal them however they choose.  The problem I see is an organization discriminating against a few specific teams.  The Capitals chose the Penguins as one team that they would make tickets difficult to come by.  I understand the reasoning behind that decision.  However, the classier way to go about it would have been to encourage Caps fans to buy them up and not sell them.  The reason I got in to the game a week or so ago in D.C. was because some Caps fan sold them to me online.  If the Caps fans value $$$ more than home ice advantage then the black and gold will continue to flood the Verizon Center.

Posted by Chris on 03/02/09 at 01:47 PM ET

I don’t know what Chris Gates was smoking when he went to the last Caps-Pens game, but there was absolutely NO way there was more than 1,000 Pens fans there. I repeat, NO WAY. Frankly, I thought there were only around 500, but I could see where 1,000 could have found there way in. As a long time Caps season ticket holder, the requests I get for my tickets are astounding and it’s not just big games on the weekend.  I personally would never sell my tickets to an opposing fan. Part of the reason is principle, but the bigger reason is I know everyone around me and it wouldn’t be fair to subject them to two Pittsburgh fans for three hours. I’d be ticked if they did that to me.

Posted by bill.b from Fairfax on 03/02/09 at 01:51 PM ET

I wasn’t smoking, that is for sure.  This guy’s a non-smoker.  But I did run in to a bus trip of 300 Pens fans.  And nearly half of the upper bowl was Pittsburgh.  There were quite a few in the lower bowl as well, waving the Terrible Towels.

Posted by Chris on 03/02/09 at 01:55 PM ET

@ TonyF: Call it what you want.  Fact of the matter is if you accept that having X number of Pens fans affects the enjoyment of the home fans (aka clientele), and potentially the outcome of the game, management has a business incentive - a duty, even - to keep opposition fans out.  Home fans also have a personal interest in keeping opposition fans away for these reasons.

The implication that there is impropriety on a discriminatory level - how it’s legally defined - is kind of absurd.  We’re not talking about suppressing a long oppressed minority group here.

And come on, it’s not like it doesn’t go both ways.  As the author pointed out the Pens did this to Wings fans in the finals.

Posted by Ben on 03/02/09 at 01:57 PM ET

LOL, I was the author… Yes, I had to be fair about it, the Pens did it to Wings fans…

I do remember back in ‘01 someone in Pittsburgh threatened legal action, but I doubt anything happened…

Posted by Tony F from Virginia Beach, VA on 03/02/09 at 02:01 PM ET

The Caps just their record for consecutive sell-outs (11) yesterday. It is getting hardy to get those game day tickets. When the Caps were good in the late 90s, they did sell-out from time to time, than they got bad and 1/2 the arena was empty up until last year. Going to a Caps game is a fade right now. But, if they start losing, you’ll see the 1/2 empty arean again.

This is not just related to hockey. When the Steelers played the Redskins this past Fall, at least 1/3 of the crowd were Steeler fans. Toward the end of the game, when the Steelers pulled away, it looked like a Pittburgh home game - all yellow & gold in the stands.

Posted by Billy Boy from Northern VA on 03/02/09 at 02:14 PM ET

@ Tony F: Whoops, my laziness has been exposed!

Yes I do remember legal action threatened and Ted soon thereafter rescinding the ban.  I can’t remember the how or the why behind the legal threat and can’t seem to find it online either, but I applauded the efforts.

Look, it’s a little shady for a team to do this, but on the other hand as a patron of the business I appreciate it.  I can’t tell you how depressing it was being 10 years old at the old Caps Centre, and feeling ashamed to make noise for the team in my section filled with Pens fans.  And to see the decibel-meter hit 94 for Pens goals and 97 for Caps goals.  It totally sucks, so I have now made it my life’s goal to go to as many away Caps games as possible and be loud.  It’s the outlet for my lasting bitterness.

Posted by Ben on 03/02/09 at 02:27 PM ET

I bought a six game pack to get the two pens games and sold the other four.  I also got an Ovie autographed puck that I sold to cover the cost of the two pens games.  The caps will sell out only when they win and the more expensive tickets get the less “TRUE” fans will show up…enjoy it now DC…it won’t last.

Posted by Dave from Pittsburgh on 03/02/09 at 02:27 PM ET

I hate they they’re calling all of these games sellouts.  I was at the flyers game (go flyers!) there were tons of empty seats and the first 2 rows of many of the 400’s were roped off.

They may have sold all of the tickets, but it was far from a capacity crowd.

We had a good group of flyers guys up in 427 but things stayed civil.  I root for the caps unless philly is in town.

Posted by Boogalo from C'Ville on 03/02/09 at 02:31 PM ET

I’m also tired of this argument coming from Pittsburgh: “caps will sell out only when they win “

Remember those lean years in Pitt when the Pens were averaging around 11,000 and were nearly bankrupt?  I do, but no one from Pittsburgh seems to.  And how about those Pirates, huh?  Been crappy for 15 years and still selling out every game! Oh wait…

The excitement is reaching unprecedented levels yes in part because of the winning, but mostly because of the transcendent star (#8) and unprecedented exciting style of play this town has never had or seen.  It will last as long as Ovechkin is wearing the red, white, and blue.

Posted by Ben on 03/02/09 at 02:42 PM ET

I too was at the Caps Pens game a couple sundays ago, and 1,000 Pens fans seems pretty accurate to me. This Chris guy must have been seeing double from one too many pre game Iron City Brews

Posted by Sombrero Guy on 03/02/09 at 03:27 PM ET

Ben you are right about fans only showing up because of #8 but i also believe that once your “star” starts to decend and your teams starts to suck again you wil have a half empty areana again and as far as the bad yeas for the pens yeah i remember them even remember crosbys first year in pittsburgh with mario and how bad they sucked means nothing hockey hadnt caught on most people from pittsburgh only cared about the steelers but now we have the two best players in the WORLD on our team along with a talented bunch of young guys and its caught on look at when the pens were struggling this year the mellon still sold out didnt matter we couldnt streak more than two wins together but us real fans still went and will continue to go and for not selling caps tickets to pens fans thats fine dont come crawling back to pens fanbase when #8 fails to get that stanely cup and you start sucking again

Posted by Scott from pittsburgh on 03/02/09 at 03:40 PM ET

Thank you Scott for verifying my point about Pens fans also being fair-weathered.  Soon as Malkin and Crosby fail to win a Cup, what then?

It makes me wonder: if Mario and Jagr hadn’t come along and won a few Cups where would the Penguins be now?  Kansas City?  Portland Oregon?  Given the support shown for losers like the Pirates, it’s not too far-fetched to call Pittsburgh a bandwagon town as well.

The Redskins are the only DC pro team that can ever say it was “dominant” for any length of time, and their fan base is among the tops in the NFL.  If the Caps can entrench themselves with similar dominance, there’s no reason to believe they won’t take hold, similar to the hold the Steelers and Pens have on Pittsburgh.

Posted by Ben on 03/02/09 at 04:09 PM ET

I think it’s fair to say that the Pirates are an extreme circumstance.  Any franchise, loyal fans or not, that suffers through 15 straight losing seasons is bound to lose support.  Think about it, a whole generation of potential fans have grown up in this losing.  I know that’s a reason why I’m not a big baseball fan.  Nevertheless, they actually get pretty good crowds because the park is so nice and through promotions.

Posted by Chris on 03/02/09 at 04:49 PM ET

The point is, anywhere you go, it’s winning championships that breeds fan bases.  What if you replaced the history of the Steelers with that of the Arizona Cardinals?  Would the Stellers have the support they do now?  Or the swapped the history of the Pens with that of the Thrashers or something?  The Caps have been historically miserable or perennial playoff disappointments.  They’ve never come close to a whiff of a championship.

The DNA of a Pittsburgh fan is not so different from that of a DC sports fan; you’ve just had a chance to get on the high horse a few times and seem to have never come down.

Posted by Ben on 03/02/09 at 05:57 PM ET

1)  Owners are in the business to make money.  The games that were part of the six-game package were not the Pittsburgh Penguins games and four Atlanta games.  If there is strong interest in certain teams coming to town (for example former Patrick Division rivals Pittsburgh and Philadelphia) then why not charge what the market will bear for those games?  Supply and Demand anyone?

2)  The Pittsburgh block on the ticket sales ended when an attorney for the Department of Justice who was a Pittsburgh fan called the Caps office to threaten legal action based on discriminatory practices.  Ted discussed this on his blog (http://www.tedstake.com/?p=2310), when Pittsburgh was called out for doing the same thing.  In fact, the attorney in question should have been referred to the Office of Professional Responsibility at DOJ, because that’s threatening legal action for personal benefit which goes against DOJ ethics rules.  There is currently no ban against ticket sales to anyone anywhere through the direct sales or secondary market.  The Caps host a secondary market through their web site for ticket sales - TicketExchange by Ticketmaster.  Granted, it’s an Abe Pollin scam, but it allows season ticket holders to post tickets for future games for sale through a secondary market at whatever price the STH wants.  Of course, it doesn’t tell the buyer (or the seller) that TicketExchange adds 10% to the price of the ticket price asked by the seller before they go up for sale, nor does it tell the buyer that it takes 10% of the asking price after the ticket sells (for a nice round 20%), but as of now, there are 478 tickets available through the site. 

3)  The upper bowl was NOT half Penguins fans at the Caps-Pens game.  Since the observer doesn’t smoke, perhaps he was eating some magic mushrooms before the game?  The middle tier of seats, which is sold separately from the Caps ticket office, did have a lot of Pens fans, but those are sold as the stadium sells out for all other seating and are not generally subject to the multiple game purchase requirements.

4)  The upper level sections with the front two rows blocked off were for handicapped seating.  To meet the requirements of ADA, they have a number of sections where there is a walk-through area from the concourse to facilitate wheelchair access.  To provide an unobstructed view (since the wheelchairs generally sit lower and further back than normal seats would), they block off the front two rows in those sections.  You’ll notice that those sections are two rows of seats, a flat space, then a higher wall which doesn’t exist in most of the sections.

Posted by Mike on 03/02/09 at 05:58 PM ET

Hello, kettle…this is the pot…you’re black.

Funny to hear Pens fans criticize the Caps yet it is OK for the Pens to do the same in the playoffs.  Any Pens fans want to explain this or is it as hypocritical as it seems?

Posted by Dirac from Boston, MA on 03/02/09 at 07:03 PM ET

Thats just sad, sad, sad, sad.

The capitals owner is a douche bag, their fans are douche bags, and the players are douche bags.

They should be thanking Penguin fans for buying their tickets when they sucked ass and couldnt even fill their barn with their own fans, instead their shunning them of their games? oh please dont flatter yourselves ya *#$%@& queers.

You said the penguins did this last year during the finals?  OOHHH NOOO they did!?!? REALLY?!? you mean us true penguin fans watched 82 regular season games, and went through 3 rounds in the playoffs to make it to the finals and we dont deserve to watch OUR team in the stanley cup finals?!?

Thats a little different, than banning fans for a lame-ass regular season game, If I watched over 100 penguin games last year, and I was turned down tickets for a redwing fan to go to one of the finals games in pittsbugh, now that is a completely different story, they play same amount of home games as the pens, go see your team in your own *#$%@& town if its the finals, that is the only exeption, your team deserves it and you deserve it.

But I would not consol not selling tickets to other fans during the season, THATS THE POINT OF HOCKEY GAMES, IS FOR FANS TO GO TO GAMES AND ENJOY HOCKEY,

TO ENJOY HOCKEY!!!

Caps fans are putting them selves on the same level as flyer fans, sad, sad, sad

Posted by Sean L. on 03/03/09 at 02:13 PM ET

in the playoffs, i wouldn’t mind if something like this was put into effect, because, after all, the team made it to the playoffs and they deserve to be playing in front of their own fans at home, but to put something like this into effect for regular season games because you can’t keep pens fans out of your arena makes you look worse. all it really says is ” we cannot keep the opposition’s fans out of our arena because we don’t have enough real fans to fill the seats so we are going to make a rule about it to see if that helps”

please. the pens saw the dark days this year when they were slipping in the standings and such. yes it was a little blip, not a few years or anything, but even though the pens went on a monstrous losing streak, the arena was and still is being filled. we are approaching 100 sellouts this year. and pens tickets are extremely hard to come by, part of the reason i only go to about 5 games a year and watch the rest on tv now.

Posted by whitney on 03/07/09 at 04:21 PM ET

To Chris Gates, I can tell you right now, there was no way there was 3000 Penguins fans at that game.  My family lives in Baltimore and I was there for a wedding the week of that game and went.  There was 1500, 1750 max.  Quit making up lies to make the Myth that is the traveling penguin fan.

Posted by Michael from Detroit, Mi on 04/29/09 at 07:29 PM ET

“Serious cash?” Pssssh lmfao! No one from shittsburgh has any money!!!

Love,
Aaronin2d

Posted by aaronin2d on 01/21/10 at 10:28 PM ET