The Confluence
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Penguins fans rated #1 in NHL by Forbes
by Tony on 12/18/09 at 01:51 PM ET
Comments (27)
Yeah, this won’t cause any discussion. From the Penguins:
Pittsburgh Penguins fans have been named the best in the NHL by Forbes magazine, in ratings unveiled this week at Forbes.com.
Penguins fans were rated No. 1 in the league, followed by Toronto Maple Leafs fans at No. 2 and Philadelphia Flyers fans at No. 3.
According to Forbes, “For the 2008-09 season, we ranked teams based on average regular-season home game attendance as a percentage of arena capacity, regular-season local television ratings as a percentage of the team’s metro area population and team merchandise sales. Pens fans emerged the most fanatical.
“They consumed the most team merchandise last season, led by jersey sales of NHL poster boy Sidney Crosby and Art Ross Trophy and Conn Smythe Trophy winner Evgeni Malkin. Televised games drew an average 72,644 households each on FSN Pittsburgh. On top of that, the Igloo, as Mellon Arena is affectionately known, sold out every game in the 2008-09 season – the second year in a row.”
Even more encouraging – local television ratings are up again this season, and the sellout streak has continued. The Penguins have now sold out 136 games in a row, heading into Monday’s home game with the New Jersey Devils.
“This is the ultimate tribute to our fans, and we salute them,” said Penguins president David Morehouse. “We’re not surprised at all that Penguins fans were named the best in the NHL. We’ve known that. Our players and coaches know that. But it’s great to see this honor bestowed by a significant national media outlet – it drives home to the rest of the country how much Pittsburgh has become a hockey town.”
Last year, ESPN Magazine ranked the Penguins No. 3 in all of professional sports in fan relations, and Forbes named the Penguins the fastest-growing brand in the NHL.
Filed in: Pittsburgh Penguins | The Confluence | Permalink
Tags: NHL-Hockey, Pittsburgh+Penguins,
Comments
Congratulations on winning that this year. Now having said that, it’s a simple snapshot of what is going on right now. Good thing they don’t look at historical data. You know…your numbers probably don’t look all that great before Sidney was drafted. Just keeping it in perspective…
Posted by Animal Drew from A Nightmare on Helm Street on 12/18/09 at 02:08 PM ET
Valid point Animal…. Having said that, there aren’t too many franchises that haven’t had runs of poor teams and attendance….
Wouldn’t you agree ??
Posted by Tony from Virginia Beach, VA on 12/18/09 at 02:11 PM ET
Does that Forbes story include the 10-20% dip in franchise value which would occur when Bettman steps down as commissioner? 
Posted by HockeyinHD on 12/18/09 at 02:13 PM ET
Who cares???????????????? Didn’t some Steeler say the fans in Pitts sux? Where did they rank the Pirates fans????? Don’t compare Pitt to NY, Boston, Philly or Chicago…..its a joke just like this Forbes crap….
Posted by kevin from boston on 12/18/09 at 02:19 PM ET
Animal Drew,
I agree with you, but the same can be said of Detroit and any other sports city in America. Sure, they have sustained success for almost 2 decades, but what’s going to happen if they go 2 or 3 seasons without making the playoffs? That will test that market. And if you look at the four seasons the Pens missed the playoffs this decade:
2002 - 15,649
2003 - 14,750
2004 - 11,877
2006 - 15,804
Mellon Arena capacity is 16,940, which doesn’t include SRO. Taking out 2004, which looking at the other years is an obvious abberation, average attendance is 15,401, which is at 91%. Leaving in 2004, average attendance becomes 14,520, which is 86% capacity. Obviously, those totals are not as good as they are now, but for a team to miss the playoffs for 4 years and still average 86% capacity, I would say that isn’t bad at all. In closing, whether Pittsburgh is a ‘true’ hockeytown in the eyes of other fans will not come anytime soon I hope, but will come during the next down cycle the Pens have.
Posted by pens fan in balitmore on 12/18/09 at 02:20 PM ET
Tony (or whoever else can answer), do you know what the Pens’ TV ratings were like during 2003 to 2004 span (AKA the Kris Beech era)?
Posted by Mike Chen on 12/18/09 at 02:37 PM ET
Who cares???????????????? Didn’t some Steeler say the fans in Pitts sux? Where did they rank the Pirates fans????? Don’t compare Pitt to NY, Boston, Philly or Chicago…..its a joke just like this Forbes crap….
Posted by kevin from boston on 12/18/09 at 02:19 PM ET
No one’s talking about the Pirates or MLB for that matter, other than you that is…
The two Steelers that were whining recently don’t like it that Steeler fans and press actually hold those that play like shit accountable….
So why don’t you look at their criteria and see how it applies to the Bruins ??
How long’s the Bruins’ sellout streak ??
What’s the Bruins’ rank in merchandise sales ??
How are the Bruins’ ratings on NESN ??
Don’t care to answer that ?? Aaaah, who cares, right ??
Posted by Tony from Virginia Beach, VA on 12/18/09 at 02:37 PM ET
Valid point Animal…. Having said that, there aren’t too many franchises that haven’t had runs of poor teams and attendance….
Wouldn’t you agree ??
Posted by Tony from Virginia Beach, VA on 12/18/09 at 02:11 PM ET
Of courese I would agree, Tony. I’m not an idiot…not all the time, anyway.
Sure, they have sustained success for almost 2 decades, but what’s going to happen if they go 2 or 3 seasons without making the playoffs?
2 seasons? They sucked for a lot longer than that without ever being in danger of moving towns. Now, with the economy in Michigan being as bad as it is, and the team struggling the way that it is (8th in the West), we’re still 6th in the NHL as far as attendance. Times are tough, but there’s still enough Red Wings faithful to keep the torch burning.
Posted by Animal Drew from A Nightmare on Helm Street on 12/18/09 at 02:40 PM ET
Tony (or whoever else can answer), do you know what the Pens’ TV ratings were like during 2003 to 2004 span (AKA the Kris Beech era)?
Posted by Mike Chen on 12/18/09 at 02:37 PM ET
Mike, I’m looking, but that kind of info isn’t easy to find, especially data that’s 5-6 years old…
I do believe, though, that FSN Pittsburgh’s ratings for the Penguins, even in those down years, did relatively well…. Obviously not as huge as they are now, but good for a losing team….
Posted by Tony from Virginia Beach, VA on 12/18/09 at 02:46 PM ET
They sucked for a lot longer than that without ever being in danger of moving towns.
True, but did attendance play a factor in the Pens almost being moved? No, Baldwin and Marino spending money they didn’t have forcing the team into bankruptcy was a reason. Politicians promising a new arena and reversing their stance was a reason as well. Honestly, with the exception of MLB’s Expos, attendance is usually not the reason a team moves in recent times. Look at Winnipeg/Quebec/Hartford/Minnesota the first time. Lack of corporate support, new facilities, and idiot ownership was part of the reasons all of those teams moved.
Honestly, I am sick of anytime I say I’m a Pens fan I am either 1) a bandwagoner or 2) it’s thrown in my face that my team almost left. Even though I am not fond of the Wings, I wouldn’t wish a team moving on any fan base. Just as much, I am sick of Pens fans that call out fans in Washington for example, for being bandwagoners. And finally, I see nothing wrong with bandwagon fans. More fans = more revenue = higher salary cap. Means the Pens can keep more of their players.
Posted by pens fan in baltimore on 12/18/09 at 02:52 PM ET
I posted this on another message board just last night, so I apologize if you have seen it already:
I am going to preface this with the following: I do not have the stats to back this up, and I am too lazy to back it up. But….
The Pens take a lot of flack for only selling out after the lockout. That’s fair. I personally know a lot of bandwagoners in the ‘burgh. However, during the dark years (01-05), the Penguins had some of the highest TV ratings in the NHL each year. Pittsburgh is a very small city, and it is not the richest city. Obviously, people aren’t going to pay to watch a team as bad as the Pens were. I would love for someone to try to look this up, but I wouldn’t know where to start.
Another thing to keep in mind – Hockey is a fringe sport. Any city that has a team that is doing well is going to get called a bandwagon market (outside of the original 6 and some other teams like Philly). That’s just how it works.
Do I sometimes resent the bandwagon fans in the ’burgh that make it hard for me to get tickets? Absolutely. But I will kindly welcome any fan to the NHL anytime. I love when people realize how awesome hockey is.
Posted by Link_Gaetz on 12/18/09 at 02:53 PM ET
Do I sometimes resent the bandwagon fans in the ’burgh that make it hard for me to get tickets? Absolutely. But I will kindly welcome any fan to the NHL anytime. I love when people realize how awesome hockey is.
I once bitched about how “bandwagoners” becoming instant Sharks fans following the Joe Thornton era irritated me and my friend echoed the above thought. He just said, “Don’t you want more people liking hockey?”
Yes. Yes I do. So as irritating as bandwagon fans are, as long as they help grow the game, I can’t complain.
Posted by Mike Chen on 12/18/09 at 03:00 PM ET
Honestly, with the exception of MLB’s Expos, attendance is usually not the reason a team moves in recent times. Look at Winnipeg/Quebec/Hartford/Minnesota the first time. Lack of corporate support, new facilities, and idiot ownership was part of the reasons all of those teams moved.
Those are valid reasons for those previous NHL moves, but nobody’s denying nowadays that the NHL is primarily a gate-driven league. Attendance makes a huge difference in a team’s profitability. Idiot ownership, bad politicians, undesirable facilities and/or surrounding parts of town all have an effect on attendance, just like attendance has an effect on corporate support.
For the true Penguins fans out there who passionately love your team and are knowledgeable about the sport, it sucks that you have to automatically be lumped in as a bandwagoner, just like it sucks that my being a Wings fan somehow means that I’m unemployed (ha ha). Teams don’t care where the dollars are coming from, whether they’re fans that have been around through all the years or people who are tuning in after realizing the Steelers’ season is effectively over (paraphrasing the guys at PensBlog there, not trying to take a football-related shot at any fans). As long as the dollars come in, they’re happy. I grew out of a bandwagoner about thirteen years ago. Every fan not lucky enough to have been born into it has to jump on the bandwagon at some point. There’s no extra credit for having done it when your team sucked.
All I can say to this news is congratulations to the Penguins.
Posted by J.J. from Kansas on 12/18/09 at 03:06 PM ET
However, during the dark years (01-05), the Penguins had some of the highest TV ratings in the NHL each year.
I remember reading that somewhere.
Don’t compare Pitt to NY, Boston, Philly or Chicago
You do realize that New York, Boston, Philthadelphia and Chicago all have populations that are more than double (probably closer to triple or quadruple) the size of Pittsburgh, right?
Damn Pittsburgh for being so tiny!
And, who said anything about the Pirates or Steelers?
Posted by Flashtastick56 from Milford, CT on 12/18/09 at 03:15 PM ET
Tony you done it again.
Congratulations.
Posted by Lindas1st from New England on 12/18/09 at 03:15 PM ET
Congratulations to all Pens fans, and to the Penguins franchise.
More fans are good for the entire hockey world.
Now how to make Phoenix earn this title?
Posted by w2j2 on 12/18/09 at 03:26 PM ET
The Bruins haven’t won a Cup in 40 years. If that happened in Pittsburgh there would be no Pittsburgh Penguins. Your team already threatened to leave town twice at least…The Bruins have never ever done that….though some wished they would
Posted by kevin from Boston on 12/18/09 at 03:40 PM ET
Now how to make Phoenix earn this title?
Move them to Canada.
And Kevin,
Pittsburgh’s metro population is 2.5 million. NYC’s is 19 million. Chicago’s is 9.8. Philly’s is 5.8 million. Boston’s is 4.5 million.
So yes, any idiot with an IQ over 10 could tell you that those cities teams are probably more popular than Pittsburgh, simply because there are more people. However when you factor size into the equation, Pittsburgh is currently more popular than all of those cities, and their TV ratings show it. Pittsburgh had a 6.14 local TV rating last season. Those other cities you listed? The highest was Philly with 2.22.
But hey, you’ve never let facts stop you from making idiotic claims before, so I doubt you will now.
Posted by Kstewy16 on 12/18/09 at 03:47 PM ET
Using Merch sales is kind of interesting. IF pens fans were bandwagoneers, merch sales WOULD be higher as fans wouldn’t have much gear already.
I wonder how the Stillers collapse affects this year’s pens media ratings. I live in NE Ohio and for most people, this has been a dreary fall for sports viewing.
Posted by redxblack from Akron Ohio on 12/18/09 at 03:50 PM ET
Now how to make Phoenix earn this title?
Move them to Canada
I vote for Hartford. Get me some sort of professional sports team up here, for crying out loud.
Posted by Flashtastick56 from Milford, CT on 12/18/09 at 03:50 PM ET
I know that they measured this based on monetary factors (and only for a year), but even as a longtime Penguins fan I find this preposterous.
When it comes to having the best fans in the league, American teams have a ceiling of #7. It’s not even close compared to Canadians, who often love their teams regardless of success.
Then again, Forbes is looking at money. Fair enough.
(Don’t get me wrong, though, I’m delighted to see this team alive let alone making oodles and noodles of money.)
Posted by Cycle like the Sedins from Texas on 12/18/09 at 03:58 PM ET
Nice to see an intelligent back and forth taking place here. I’ve never been to Pittsburgh, so its hard to compare it to anything, aside from the obvious population numbers and other supposedly solid statistical comparisons made in the Forbes analysis. My thoughts are that its actually surprising that the Penguins even made it to the Lemieux era in Pittsburgh. Of the other 1967 and 1972 expansion teams, the Blues, Flyers and Islanders had significant success relatively early on. Of the teams that didn’t have early success, only the North Stars (a traditional hockey market) and the Kings and Penguins made it in their original cities (of course, the North Stars later leaving). The Penguins fans actually rode out 20 years of miserable hockey teams, which deserves some credit if you ask me. My question to those that know Pittsburgh is, were they ever really that close to leaving, or was it mostly a lever to get the politicians to support the new arena? Anyone that has any clue about modern professional sports in North America knows that a 16,000 seat arena with no luxury boxes or other luxury facilities can’t compete financially, particularly with underfunded, independent ownership. Would the Flyers or Bruins be as financially sound (regardless of ownership) if they were still playing in the Spectrum or Garden? Here in Philly, the Flyers and Eagles have great attendance regardless of how well they do (in the case of the Flyers, I think its still a function of their early success). The Phillies had miserable attendance until they started to win, and the 76ers are now getting around 5,000 per game. It only makes sense in most smaller markets, particularly for a niche sport like hockey, that winning breeds fans and attention, losing means you’re irrelevant.
Posted by dip on 12/18/09 at 05:01 PM ET
Of course the Sabres also made it, but they also support the early success model, plus its a traditional hockey market.
Posted by dip on 12/18/09 at 05:13 PM ET
My question to those that know Pittsburgh is, were they ever really that close to leaving, or was it mostly a lever to get the politicians to support the new arena?
Before Lemieux, yes, it absolutely could have happened. They had never really caught on since they never had any consistenly good teams, and then in the 70’s when the Steelers and Pirates were doing great, some people began to forget about the Pens.
But the 2nd time it happened, it was more of a ploy by Lemieux to help force the state and local governments to help out with financing the new arena. If they hadn’t got the new arena deal done though, they would have been forced to move, but that had nothing to do with fan support and more to do with the fact that state politicians could care less about PA’s “other city.”
Posted by Kstewy16 on 12/18/09 at 05:53 PM ET
But the 2nd time it happened, it was more of a ploy by Lemieux to help force the state and local governments to help out with financing the new arena.
Yes, Mario’s trip to the Sprint Center in Kansas City was brilliant posturing, it wasn’t long after that that the deal was signed…..
Posted by Tony from Virginia Beach, VA on 12/18/09 at 06:00 PM ET
Yes, Mario’s trip to the Sprint Center in Kansas City was brilliant posturing, it wasn’t long after that that the deal was signed…..
And we saw this pre-season how eagerly KC supported the Islanders. It was probably good that Lemieux never actually scheduled a game there!
Posted by dip on 12/18/09 at 06:29 PM ET
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