The Confluence
Next entry: Penguins down Bruins in 6-5 OT thriller
Previous entry: Penguins reassign forward Chris Conner
Penguins’ Staal has me channeling David Ferrie
by Tony on 11/13/09 at 12:35 PM ET
Comments (19)
”It’s a mystery, wrapped in an enigma, inside a riddle,” - David Ferrie (as portrayed by Joe Pesci), JFK - 1991
If someone can claim to dicipher the true value of Jordan Staal to the Pittsburgh Penguins, please, be my guest.
The young man (just turned 21 on Sept. 10th) is obviously very talented at the NHL level and has performed brilliantly at times. At other times, however, he really makes you scratch your head.
His list of accomplishments so far in his 3+ seasons is certainly noteworthy: #2 overall pick in the ‘06 NHL Draft. 3rd in Calder Trophy voting, behind Evgeni Malkin and Paul Stastny. 29 goals in his rookie year. Broke the NHL record for most short-handed goals in rookie season with seven. Two career hat tricks. His short-handed goal in Game 4 of the ‘09 Stanley Cup Finals may have saved the Penguins’ chances to win the Cup. His defensive performances in Games Six and Seven of the Finals were simply outstanding.
But for all of those kudos, it seems as though every time the Pengins attempt to elevate his status on the team and move him into a more prominent scoring role, he fails to impress. There have been times that Staal has been on both Sidney Crosby’s and Malkin’s wing and just recently has been the #2 center with Malkin out of the lineup with a bum shoulder. The result ? One goal and one assist in his last ten games.
Eyebrows were raised by more than one Penguins fan last season when the Pens signed Staal to a 4-year, $16 million extension. Some fans questioned whether Staal, who may very well turn out to be nothing more than a very good third line center, deserved that type of salary, especially considering how tight the Penguins’ cap will be for the foreseeable future, with Crosby’s and Malkin’s near-maximum salaries. Staal will earn $3.5 million this year and next, then $4.5 the final two years of his deal. By the way, that’s pretty much the same salary as his teammate, Chris Kunitz (if you’d like a water cooler discussion piece). There have been rumblings among the fans over the past couple of years that trading Staal for that elusive “scoring winger” for Crosby is what the Penguins need to remain a Stanley Cup contender.
Having said all that though, I think it’s important to emphasize once again, Staal just turned 21. The recent influx of extremely young superstars, especially his teammates Crosby and Malkin, perhaps has made it relatively unfair to youngsters like Staal to naturally progress without such scrutiny.
So, who knows how Staal will turn out. Will he “turn the corner” and become the offensive force that many thought he would be as the #2 pick in the draft ?? Or, as I said, will he merely be arguably the best #3 center in the NHL ??
Time will only tell.
Filed in: | The Confluence | Permalink
Tags: NHL-Hockey, Pittsburgh+Penguins,
Comments
I understand that in sports, especially in the NHL, fans tend to evaluate a players worth with what he bings to the team as well as his contract. But putting aside his contract for sake of argument, I would think any fan would want a Jordan Staal on their team.
Before this 5 game slide, and the crazy injuries, the penguins were icing the ‘best third line in the league’. Staal brings many great things to the table. Offense just is not one of them. I would say the most obvious downside of Staal is his passing. He simply does not pass or use his linemates enough (aside from the cycling they do every shift on the boards). His rookie year he had more goals than assists. Same thing this year (4,3). For a centermen he needs to be better at passing. But like you mentioned above, for a 21 year old, he has a lot of time to learn.
Posted by gretzky_to_lemieux on 11/13/09 at 01:15 PM ET
Lets see. For 4 million dollars we could get a 3rd line center who plays 19 minutes a game, scores 20-30 goals per season, and is our best PKer. OR we could get a 1st or 2nd line winger who scores 30-40 goals per year and does absolutely nothing else for the team.
Yeah. I’ll take Staal.
Posted by Kstewy16 on 11/13/09 at 01:46 PM ET
Staal is a decent player, but will always have questions surrounding him being the second overall pick and, now, earning $3-4M a year.
I think he’ll always struggle in a more prominent offensive role because he doesn’t have great puck control or hand speed. I think one reason he is much more dangerous on the PK than at other times is that offensive chances on the PK tend to involve 1-2 forwards attacking an isolated Dman (if there are two or more players back, and they’re not gassed, usually the puck gets played deep).
In those situations, Staal can use his size and reach to get into a good goal scoring position and has had success. On the PP or at ES, either you need to be able to create your own chances where size and reach are less important due to a more congested defense or be able to use a quick release to take advantage of a teammate’s pass. Staal doesn’t really have these skills.
One interesting point is to look at his stats, especially in the OHL:
http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=80489
How often does a player exceed his scoring rate in juniors in the NHL? Although he’s operating below his NHL pace of a goal every four games this year, I think that’s probably his ceiling.
IMHO, the team needs some additional offensive help. Decent 3rd line centers aren’t too difficult to find, especially with Crosby often matching up with the oppositions’ top line. With Malkin and Crosby taking up 40+ min a game, the other centers are less important.
As the team doesn’t really have any legitimate top 2 line wingers right now, very evident on the PP even when winning, I just don’t see how a move can’t be made.
Posted by catz27 on 11/13/09 at 02:07 PM ET
What, Winston Churchill’s not a good enough source for a quotation?
Posted by kushiro on 11/13/09 at 03:14 PM ET
I agree with catz27 analysis.
He needs an assignment. He’s not a creative hockey player.
This is why when he’s put on the 3rd line with the responsibilty to check the opposing team’s top line he’s done well in the past. When he’s put on a scoring line with the expectation to produce points he disappoints.
I’m not sure about trading him just yet. I think if he can put up 20-30-50 on the 3rd line consistently the next few years you keep him . If he can’t, a change might be in order and he’ll still be just 24-26 years old so it’s still doable.
Posted by Lindas1st from New England on 11/13/09 at 03:18 PM ET
What, Winston Churchill’s not a good enough source for a quotation?
Posted by kushiro on 11/13/09 at 03:14 PM ET
Wow, you learn something new every day…..
Just now realized (aka Googled) that Churchill originally said that about the Soviets in 1939…..
Thanks !!
Posted by Tony from Virginia Beach, VA on 11/13/09 at 03:54 PM ET
But quoting Pesci is so much more fun !!
Posted by Tony from Virginia Beach, VA on 11/13/09 at 03:55 PM ET
Its probably important to just remember he is only 21, and also to have realistic expectations for him. He is not another Malkin. But compare him to either Claude Giroux or James vanReimsdyk of the Flyers, who are nearly the same age. When they show signs of brilliance, you’re excited, but you need to see it consistently. In last years playoffs, Giroux was possibly their best player, and this year he has struggled (to put up points, he still contributes in other ways). So far JVR has been a big surprise, but can he maintain it? In both those guys cases, they are also playing with better talent than Staal. Because he’s been in the league for so long, its easy to think of him as more of a veteran than he is.
Posted by dip on 11/13/09 at 04:30 PM ET
What’s maddening about Staal is that he either looks like a 6’4’’ force of nature out there, who dominates at each end (see: 2009 SCF)
Or
He looks like a baby calf who is still learning how to walk. For how big he is, he gets knocked over way too easily. He is always on the ice…literally.
It’s frustrating, because there is no in between. I think a lot of it is confidence. Watch him after he biffs a one-timer or messes up a shot. He looks to the sky, shakes his head, slams his stick, and looks like he is going to cry.
Posted by Link_Gaetz on 11/13/09 at 04:48 PM ET
Lets see. For 4 million dollars we could get a 3rd line center who plays 19 minutes a game, scores 20-30 goals per season, and is our best PKer. OR we could get a 1st or 2nd line winger who scores 30-40 goals per year and does absolutely nothing else for the team.
Yeah. I’ll take Staal.
True, but Staal was the 2nd overall pick, and 3rd line players arent drafted with the 2nd pick, theyre drafted in the 4th round. Imagine if the Pens had drafted Toews or someone else that is better than Staal.
Posted by EpicFail88 on 11/13/09 at 05:40 PM ET
EpicFail, well then I guess we should just get rid of staal and call him a bust.
OR we could forget about when he was drafted and see him for the great asset to our team that he is. Point of my post was that I’d much rather have him on our team than trade him for that “scoring winger” that everyone and their mother thinks we need so much. Having depth is much more important than having a 40 goal scorer on Sids wing. And even with Staal playing on the 3rd line, he will still score 20-30 goals each season! Any smart GM would rather have a great defensive player who nets 30 than a defensively invisible winger who nets 40 (because thats all we could get for Staal, don’t fool yourselves into thinking we can get another big name player)
Posted by Kstewy16 on 11/13/09 at 06:06 PM ET
YOU MORON no one is saying “Get rid of him” Good God get your Head out of his Lap, As Tony posted in the last 10 games 1 goal & 1 assist
You Have a Finite amount of Money you can spend, If you pay a 3rd Line Center 4 Million a Year you are stuck with Guerin & Kunitz on Sid’s Line & Fedotenko & Talbot when he comes Back on Geno’s Line. None of those 4 are legitimate Top 2 line Wingers
Posted by Evilpens on 11/13/09 at 06:36 PM ET
Hear, hear on the questions about Staal’s value. I respect what he did in the playoffs and what he brings . . . BUT
If you are paying your top two-line centers each $9m annually, how can you ever get your money’s worth out of either of them when they are surrounded by bargain-basement wingers? Which is unavoidable because you are drastically overpaying your third line center. You simply cannot afford $4m third liners with the Penguins salary structure.
It’s like laying out a huge chunk of change to buy a big, beautiful diamond and having it set on either side with two pieces of gravel you picked up off the street. (yes in this analogy, Crosby/Malkin = diamond and Guerin/Kunitz/Fedotenko, et al., are the bits of gravel). Waste of a diamond in that scenario.
Posted by Cochlear on 11/13/09 at 09:05 PM ET
If you are paying your top two-line centers each $9m annually, how can you ever get your money’s worth out of either of them when they are surrounded by bargain-basement wingers?
Um…by winning a Stanley Cup? Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that what they did last year?
I believe one of those “diamonds” won the Art Ross and Conn Smythe Trophies while scoring 113 points in the regular season and leading the league in scoring in the playoffs, while the other one, while missing half a dozen games, cracked the 100 mark in points (for the 3rd time in his career) and led the league in goals in the playoffs. Please, tell me what more you want from these two. I’d love to know.
It’s November. Right now, everyone on this team is either slumping or injured.
Crosby only has one assist in his last 6 games! They drafted him #1 overall!!! Trade him!
4 or 5 months ago, everyone was lauding the Pens for building their team up the middle (Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Fleury…)and filling in the spaces around them with character guys, that work hard and fit in well chemistry wise. Now people want the Pens to change everything they’re doing—the things that brought them a Stanley Cup 5 months ago—because they’re slumping? In November?
Come on. Give me a break.
Posted by Flashtastick56 from Milford, CT on 11/13/09 at 10:10 PM ET
Well they won a SC with Yeo Strangling the PP do you think he ought to be here simply because he was there when they won a SC ?? You 12 year olds need to go back to your Video games & what Have Ya
Posted by Evilpens on 11/13/09 at 10:24 PM ET
It’s not like Staal is playing with goal scorers…maybe they should mix things up and put him back with kunitz and keep him there so they have time to click. Obviously it shows that the pens have the lack of a distinct 2nd tier sniper (meaning a consistently scoring sniper).
Also…maybe Staal should work on his behind the net play, his stick is long enough that he could score 20 goals alone on wrap arounds a year.
Posted by stoneman from vegas on 11/14/09 at 07:32 AM ET
UMMM he has Played with Kunitz & Guerin the last 2 games & has STILL SUCKED do you even have a clue ???
Posted by Evilpens on 11/14/09 at 09:34 AM ET
Okay, well, I’m not sure why there’s no merit to my argument—that being Jordan Staal is a guy who was an enormous part of a Stanley Cup winning team, so why get on his case just because he doesn’t score as many goals as a few people think a #2 pick should be scoring, in NOVEMBER, but…whatev.
And I really think there’s a huge difference between a guy being a very important part of a Stanley Cup team and a coach with a bad game plan. That could, however, just be me being ridiculous again.
I’m not 12 years old, either. And if I was, I’d be one of the most intelligent writers in the history of 12 year olds. It’s not like I’m here saying “OMG trade Stahl cuz he sux so bad!!!1 LOLZ”.
I’m not sure you’re aware of this or not, so just to be sure I’ll say it again:
It. Is. November.
Posted by Flashtastick56 from Milford, CT on 11/14/09 at 09:58 PM ET
Add a Comment
Please limit embedded image or media size to 575 pixels wide.
Add your own avatar by joining Kukla's Korner, or logging in and uploading one in your member control panel.
Captchas bug you? Join KK or log in and you won't have to bother.
Commenting is not available in this weblog entry.
Most Recent Blog Posts
Turn Out The Lights, The Party’s Over: I’m Stepping Down
Bill Cowher’s Daughter to Marry Kevin Westgarth
Penguins Sign Forward Steve MacIntyre
Penguins Re-Sign Forward Dustin Jeffrey to Two-Year Deal
Crosby Donation Leads To Renovation at Children’s Hospital
About Kukla’s Korner
Kukla’s Korner is updated around the clock with the work of our own talented bloggers, plus links to the best hockey writing around the internet. We strive to bring you all the breaking hockey news as it happens.
The home page allows you to see the latest postings from every blog on the site. Subscribe here. For general inquiries and more, please contact us anytime.
Get the top online sports betting bonuses available to sports betters!
When learning from experts it’s best to learn personally from them, or from their blog. We can provide that with poker lessons blog, your home to learn poker personally.
Do you get shocked from the luck in the game of poker? Stop getting shocked and start being a Poker Shoker.
As well as reading about hockey games, you can also find info about poker like which poker sites accept American Express or which are the best Canadian poker sites and also find the top rakeback sites at rakeback.net.
Kukla’s Korner is always a free service for readers, but it costs some money to maintain. If you’re ever in a position to donate a few dollars to help out, we’d be very appreciative.
Shero is Blinded by his EGO, He still believes that Staal will be a Goal Scorer, He is what he is 3rd Line Center, Best 3rd Line Center in the League very Likely, But he will NEVER be anything more than that & is a salary cao era you can’t pay a 3rd Line Center 4 Million a Year or you end up with Over the Hill wingers & 3rd Line wingers like the Pens have
Posted by Evilpens on 11/13/09 at 01:07 PM ET